Open letter from Obama on equality for LGBT

[VenusRising]

I’m running for President to build an America that lives up to our founding
promise of equality for all – a promise that extends to our gay brothers
and sisters. It’s wrong to have millions of Americans living as second-class
citizens in this nation. And I ask for your support in this election so that
together we can bring about real change for all LGBT Americans.


Equality is a moral imperative. That’s why throughout my career, I have fought to eliminate
discrimination against LGBT Americans. In Illinois, I co-sponsored a fully inclusive bill that
prohibited discrimination on the basis of both sexual orientation and gender identity, extending
protection to the workplace, housing, and places of public accommodation. In the U.S. Senate,
I have co-sponsored bills that would equalize tax treatment for same-sex couples and provide
benefits to domestic partners of federal employees. And as president, I will place the weight of
my administration behind the enactment of the Matthew Shepard Act to outlaw hate crimes and
a fully inclusive Employment Non-Discrimination Act to outlaw workplace discrimination on the
basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.


As your President, I will use the bully pulpit to urge states to treat same-sex couples with full
equality in their family and adoption laws. I personally believe that civil unions represent the best
way to secure that equal treatment. But I also believe that the federal government should not
stand in the way of states that want to decide on their own how best to pursue equality for gay and
lesbian couples — whether that means a domestic partnership, a civil union, or a civil marriage.
Unlike Senator Clinton, I support the complete repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA)
– a position I have held since before arriving in the U.S. Senate. While some say we should repeal
only part of the law, I believe we should get rid of that statute altogether. Federal law should not
discriminate in any way against gay and lesbian couples, which is precisely what DOMA does. I
have also called for us to repeal Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, and I have worked to improve the Uniting
American Families Act so we can afford same-sex couples the same rights and obligations as
married couples in our immigration system.

<snip>

We also need a president who’s willing to confront the stigma – too often tied to homophobia
– that continues to surround HIV/AIDS. I confronted this stigma directly in a speech to
evangelicals at Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church, and will continue to speak out as president.
That is where I stand on the major issues of the day. But having the right positions on the issues
is only half the battle. The other half is to win broad support for those positions. And winning
broad support will require stepping outside our comfort zone. If we want to repeal DOMA, repeal
Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, and implement fully inclusive laws outlawing hate crimes and discrimination
in the workplace, we need to bring the message of LGBT equality to skeptical audiences as well
as friendly ones – and that’s what I’ve done throughout my career. I brought this message of
inclusiveness to all of America in my keynote address at the 2004 Democratic convention. I talked
about the need to fight homophobia when I announced my candidacy for President, and I have
been talking about LGBT equality to a number of groups during this campaign – from local LGBT
activists to rural farmers to parishioners at Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, where Dr. Martin
Luther King once preached.

More at link: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/alexokrent/gGggJS

[LostinVA]

1. And still no apology for McClurkin

[SoFlaJet]

9. I don't think a candidate

should be held accountable if someone supports him or her. If I have a gay friend that doesn't mean I'M gay, if I have republican friends it doesn't mean I support the policies of George W Bush and just because Louis Farrakhan supports Obama doesn't mean he has to buy into the tenets of the Nation Of Islam

[Solon]

12. McClurkin MC'ed an event that Obama sponsored...

Obama was ultimately responsible for choosing McClurkin for the event. He's not "just some other guy" who said he supported Obama. Obama has no control over those type of people, but he DOES have control over who is attends and PARTICIPATES in events HE sponsored.

[cliffordu]

23. I have a question. Or two.

Is there proof that Obama actually sponsored this event?

Was it the local yokels setting it up?

Are the local yokels required to send a vetted list to Obama for an event like this??

Was Obama even there??

It irritates the hell out of me that Dems are taking a ONE ISSUE STANCE on this.

If Obama toured with this McClurkin, did 10 dates in 5 cities, then I'd buy into the argument that Obama is slime.

Hating someone for a one off gig that the candidate might or might not have attended is a bogus, specious, and LAZY argument.

[Solon]

28. answers...

Yes, Obama sponsored the event, his campaign had control over what acts were attending and performing, and had control over their schedules. It was advertised on his campaign website as well. Obama didn't show up personally at the event, he participated in it through teleconference, he even called McClurkin one of his "favorite acts" when he introduced the homophobe.

Also, Obama knew that McClurkin(and other acts) were offensive to the GLBT community, but decided to let them participate anyways, over objections from many GLBT groups.

[yardwork]

29. How dare you make these nasty accusations without any familiarity with the facts!

[racaulk]

37. Guess what? It's the primaries. Dems can AFFORD to take a one-issue stance.

GLBT equality is very important for me and is my pet issue, although there are a lot of other issues that are also important to me. During the primaries I will cater to my pet issue and try to advance it through my support and primary vote. In fact, I didn't even vote in my Super Tuesday primary, because I don't think Obama or Clinton will do enough to advance GLBT equality in the White House.

However, during the GE I look at the whole picture, and although I'm still extremely disappointed and angry with Obama over the McClurkin flap, if he's our nominee I will work my ass off for him in the GE.

Single issue in the primaries; overall picture in the GE. Nothing wrong with that.

Also, I haven't seen any evidence that anyone *hates* Obama over this. Hate is a strong word. That's a bit of a reach, and is a lazy argument on your part.

[NMMNG]

110. Oh for crying out loud

Did you just crawl from under a rock yesterday? :banghead:

[LostinVA]

14. Quit being disingenuous about the matter

[yardwork]

16. I'm willing to let McClurkin go but NOT willing to pretend it wasn't a huge mistake on Obama's part.

As another poster said in this thread, don't try to be disingenuous. Obama's campaign chose McClurkin to emcee the event. They allowed McClurkin to spew his bigoted hatred and McClurkin certainly seized the opportunity to do so. Obama introduced McClurkin by video as someone he admired.

It was a big mistake. Obama ought to apologize. He didn't. I'm willing to let it go, but don't try to excuse it.

[SoFlaJet]

20. I've only heard Obama talk about

equal rights for gays in his speeches-so who is being disingenuous and who has the pro Clinton agenda they're trying to justify?

[yardwork]

31. Listen, you do your cause no good by insulting people.

[SoFlaJet]

34. what "cause"?

I have no agendas here-I only want to get rid of this president and a bigger majority in congress-I don't look to divide the party like so many I see here with calls of racism and sexism and accusations of hating people like I see from too many Clinton supporters here

[Solon]

39. You are assuming all of us are Hillary supporters...

A lot of us were accused of that since day one of the McClurkin flap, and it was a lie then, just as much as its a lie now. Don't even attempt to foist that bullshit on us.

[SoFlaJet]

40. so what fucking "cause"

are you accusing me of?

[Solon]

45. Was I the one who accused you of a "cause"? No I was not...

I was just addressing the lie you said, no more, no less.

[SoFlaJet]

46. I give up

all you people are way too quick to accuse other people NOT like you or NOT for your candidate of all kinds of insidious things (lying, racism. sexism, homophobia whatever else fits the topic or agenda) and I'm sick of being insulted by fucking assholes

[Solon]

49. You aren't exactly good at this whole debate thing, you made an assertion...

I challenged you on it, and then you just give up. The fact that you were wrong so you are either brave enough to own up to, or not, whatever the case may be.

[SoFlaJet]

52. I'd rather not debate with ignorant

and hateful people who are too quick to throw disgusting names around-I like being called a liar and a sexist as much as you like being called an anti gay or lesbian name-whatever the case may be-which I will NOT even write-consider and think about that for a second please Solon

[Solon]

54. I've actually said none of those things...

I challenged you on ONE assertion of yours that was not true, and you then throw in all this other crap that has no bearing on what we were talking about in the first place.

[SoFlaJet]

55. you called me a liar and I don't like it

.

[Solon]

56. OK then, maybe you were simply misinformed...

There are at least two people in this thread who AREN'T Hillary supporters at all(me and Racaulk), so can you at least say your statement was incorrect?

[SoFlaJet]

58. sure

peace

[yardwork]

2. Ok, this is MUCH better. Where is this appearing?

The link seems to take me to someone's personal blog. Is this appearing on Obama's campaign website.

This is much, much better than the ad I saw earlier today or anything else I've seen from the Obama campaign.

[VenusRising]

3. Yes, I found it searching Obama's website.

The date and time was from just about an hour ago, so I don't know exactly when the date of the letter is. If I can find it I will post it from the original source.

:hi:

[yardwork]

6. Well, if this is on Obama's website it means a lot to me.

A lot. If this is on Obama's website - do you have a link to his website that proves that? - then a lot of my reservations about him are relieved.

[VenusRising]

11. I found it under the People:LGBT section.

http://pride.barackobama.com/page/content/lgbthome

[yardwork]

13. Ok, I'm very happy about this.

[Whisp]

57. me too.

I am happy that you are relieved and can tell it is genuine.

:hug:

(Obama is not the big bigot so many people here call him.)

[Bluebear]

81. Part of the "snip"

'Just as important, I have been listening to what all Americans have to say. I will never compromise
on my commitment to equal rights for all LGBT Americans. But neither will I close my ears to
the voices of those who still need to be convinced. That is the work we must do to move forward
together. It is difficult. It is challenging. And it is necessary.'

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/alexokrent/gGggJS

[VenusRising]

82. Thank you for posting that snip. n/t

[Bluebear]

83. No problem, It is offensive to me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4813218&mesg_id=4813218

[VenusRising]

84. Why is it offensive that he will listen to all voices?

Bush has been silencing minority voices for 7 years. Here is a man that will not only stand up for the GLBT community, but also stand up for the right of an unpopular minority to be heard.

It doesn't make sense to me why, in a Democracy, letting everyone have a place at the table is offensive.

[yardwork]

85. Rather than thinking in abstract terms, let's talk about what Obama's words mean.

He says he "won't close his ears" to the concerns of those who still need to be convinced. That sounds reasonable enough until we look at the words of "those who still need to be convinced."

They're saying that gay people are damned. They say we're the same as murderers and child rapists. They say that we are an abomination. They say that homosexuality is the only sin that denies a person admission to heaven. They say that we are the worst of the worst.

Now, personally, I don't care what a bunch of people think about me. But when those people influence teenagers to commit suicide, I do care. Many teenage suicides - especially those among young men - are thought to be due to their feelings of despair over being gay.

Gay people have written about their experiences on this board. They contemplated suicide because they were miserable about their lives, because as children and young adults they were told by everyone they loved and admired that their feelings were an abomination, as bad as being a murderer or child rapist, denying them a place in heaven, damning them to eternity, etc. etc.

Some of the radical fundamentalist ministers who have joined Obama's campaign run "reeducation camps" for young people who are gay. They attempt to "save" these teenagers by inflicting emotional torture on them in the name of God.

If Hillary said that she wouldn't "close her ears" to the Ku Klux Klan, I think you would be outraged. This is no different. The Klan uses the Bible to justify their white supremacist views. Donnie McClurkin uses the Bible to justify his heterosexist views.

[VenusRising]

89. While I agree with the great majority of your post

and everything you state about McClurkin and his kind, it does not abdicate the responsibility of the President (whomever they may be) to listen to all voices within the country.

I see this as a case of "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Obama doesn't say that he will acquiesce to their demands, only that he will not close his ears. Bush has closed his ears to the minority voices for too long, and this is at least a step in the right direction to restore freedom and democracy.

IMHO

[NMMNG]

105. Is Obama listening to the racists?

Is he listening to the KKK? The Neo-Nazis?

Why is it that he only wishes to listen to the homophobes--that it is only them that he considers important enough to listen to as "other voices that must be heard" even though they advocate harm toward, and even the deaths of, LGBT people?

[Bluebear]

93. because bigots and homophobes are not an "unpopular minority" to be protected

[VenusRising]

95. Every American has a right to be protected.

It's what equality for all under the law means. He doesn't want to acquiesce, only provide them the opportunity to be involved in the conversation. Just because someone says something that you hear does not mean you will agree or even advocate their position. At least you know what is on their mind at the time instead of having to guess.

[LostinVA]

100. Why does he give a mic to Ex Gay Clowns, but not racists or anti-Semites?

Why does Obama only "involve" homophobes, but not other bigots in the "conversation?"

[IntravenousDemilo]

122. We have heard those voices before, the voices of those "who need to be convinced".

They are very loud, they have been talking forever, and they say the same disgusting things every time, so we already know what they want to communicate. It's now time for them to shut up. There's a very good reason why we have one mouth and two ears.

[maddiejoan]

118. Well that's just dandy!

Obama no longer has to apologize for McClurkin first!


He needs to apologize for HIMSELF.

That's the final nail in the coffin for me.

[cali]

4. It's a strong unequivocal message and I'm very glad to see it

happy to send this off to the greatest.

[jlake]

7. Don't you think that he needs to apologize for McClurkin?

If he would be sincere in his position, and realize that not everyone belongs a place at the table I would be able to support him.
But I am not holding my breath.

[cali]

10. He's condemned what McClurkin said and what he stands for

that and his willingness to speak out on GLBT issues, even in unfriendly settings, and his record, are enough for me. I understand if they're not enough for other people, just as you, I'm sure, understand that Hillary's belated quasi apology the other night on her IWR vote, isn't enough for me. I actually think that Obama is marginally stronger on GLBT issues than Hillary, but I think they're both light years ahead of any serious candidate we've ever had.

[Solon]

17. Did he treat McClurkin like he treated Farrakhan recently?

No, he did not, don't treat us as if we were stupid here.

[cali]

18. I'm not in any way treating you as if you're stupid and don't fucking

lecture me. I respect your choice not to let it go and you have no fucking right to tell me I can't make my own decision. God, I'm sick to hell of that. He condemned McClurkin's words. If that's not enough for you, fine. I can dig that. It's enough for me, even though I think he should have apologized and even though I think it was a big deal, and made be wary enough to not support him- when I was leaning that way at the time it happened. Don't demand respect and then treat someone else's decision with contempt.

[Solon]

25. Don't try to lecture ME, when in this thread all you've done is try to say: "Hillary did it too!"

Fuck Hillary and fuck Obama too. The fact of the matter is that you are attempting to deflect this shit away from Obama, which means you are treating those of us that are upset with him as if we were stupid. Don't fucking sit there and complain about being lectured at when you are guilty of the same disrespect.

[cali]

33. I'm not trying to deflect jackshit,

how fucking dare you twist my words- which couldn't be clearer. I respect individuals to make their own choice. I do NOT think it's petty to not vote for Obama because of McClurkin and I've said that repeatedly. YOU are the disrespectful one, and you're making shit up. That I don't respect. It's utterly false that I've lectured YOU or anyone else about this. And your hammering me on that false charge doesn't make it any truer.

[Solon]

38. Then what's the point of bringing up Hillary at all?

All I've seen from Obama supporters is everything from deflections about Hillary(who I never supported) to outright homophobia, how are you any different from the rest of them?

[cali]

41. the point was that we all weigh issues individually

and come to our own conclusions. And that was an example. Simple as that.

I was waiting for you to call me homophobic. Knew it was coming. Most GLBT people here will stand up for me because they know I stand with them.

I wasn't deflecting anything. I've been clear as crystal in my condemnation of Obama over the McClurkin thing. Think whatever you fucking want. I don't care about having your respect. At all.

[Solon]

44. I never said you were homophobic...

I think you are naive at best, and you are guilty of attempted deflection. What I was saying was that I've seen homophobia from OTHER Obama supporters. Learn reading comprehension before making comments like that.

[cali]

48. You insinuated it

and I'm done with you. I've felt that way for quite some time

[Solon]

50. Oooh, that is such a great loss, NOT!

Seriously though, I don't know what you problem is, but whatever. :eyes:

[IntravenousDemilo]

123. He should have had McClurkin removed from the event in about five seconds flat.

Why did he not?

[jlake]

5. Without an apology from McClurkin it is just more insincere pandering.

Obama tries to take every side of an issue and be all things to all people.

What he's selling, I ain't buying!

[cali]

15. that's absurd

he has a history and record that prove he isn't merely pandering. And this is a strong message that will not go over well with a lot of people. It's politically risky to put these things so starkly. Has Hillary? Does she have anything like this on her website?

[backscatter712]

8. Excellent! Good to hear it.

I've heard a lot of criticism from GLBT circles of Barack Obama.

I'm an unabashed Obama fan, and I'm also supportive of GLBT rights - I'm very glad to see Barack Obama make this statement.

[VenusRising]

19. I'm really happy about his adoption position.

I have an uncle who has wanted children for years. I know the discrimination that he went through trying to adopt kids. He finally ended up adopting two boys from a friend who could not take care of all her kids. I'm sure that he could have given lots of kids a chance at a better life if there not been so much hate and fear of the gay community.

[cali]

21. Living in Vermont

where gay adoption has been legal for close to two decades, I forget sometimes that there are so many places where this bigoted crap flourishes.

[VenusRising]

22. He lives in Texas.

The hatred definitely flourishes, especially in the smaller Baptist towns.

[ExtraGriz]

24. more words!!

he sure as hell didnt speak up when mcclurkin demonized the glbtq community...he got in to bed with them, so sorry, his words means nothing when he speaks to the gay and lesbian community.

[cali]

27. so you speak for the entire GLBT community?

That's interesting. And, no they're not just words. He has a record and it includes standing up for GLBT issues. Yes, he fucked up with McClurkin, but he DID repudiate what McClurkin said. Yes, he should have apologized and didn't, but these are not just words.

[terrya]

26. This is much better than that ad.

At least it details what an Obama Adminstration could do for GLBT people.

I have to say this is better than the ad. And I do hope down the road that Obama will apologize to the GLBT community for McClurkin.

[VenusRising]

30. I hope he will, too.

His statement about McClurkin was good enough for me right now. It's not the most pressing issue in my book. I understand that it is for others and I respect their feelings.

[terrya]

35. I'm still outraged over McClurkin.

But no apology will be forthcoming soon. And I'm not sure there will be.

However...it's pragmatism time. More than likely, Obama will be the nominee. I've said all along that I will support and vote for him in the GE. As a gay man, I'd like to have some hope that an Obama Administration will be fully supportive of the GLBT community and will unequivocally push to enact legislation (such as the Matthew Shepard Act and the repeal of DADT and DOMA) that is of vital interest to our community. And that letter does attempt to assure our community of his stated committment.

I know that some people still are suspicious of Obama. I understand that. And I'm still believe that Hillary is more committed to our community than Obama. But there's political reality to deal with.

[VenusRising]

42. Let me just say to you and others outraged by this....

I am sorry about McClurkin. I know that you may not get the apology that you want from Obama, but as someone who whole-heartedly supports the LGBT community and their issues, I am truly sorry for Obama's poor choice.

We have to stand together, and I know my apology isn't the same, but it is genuine.

:hug:

[yardwork]

87. I appreciate that, and I believe you.

A lot of the outrage here is over not only Obama's campaign's actions, but the dismissive reactions of our fellow DUers.

Sometimes saying, "I'm sorry and I don't agree and I understand why you are upset" goes a very long way. Thank you.

:hug:

[VenusRising]

91. I would never dismiss someone over their feelings.

And it sucks that other DUers would because it this a very real issue for a lot of people.

[DURHAM D]

32. I am not at all in favor of getting rid of DOMA yet -

its gives back to the Republicans their most effective wedge issue. Also, we still have too many Blue Dog Dems in Washington.

[GodlessBiker]

36. Well, hopefully you will be out-voted.

[DURHAM D]

43. Well - I would certainly like for "gay marriage" not to be a wedge - but it is. eom

[GodlessBiker]

47. Fair enough. Are there any other groups you are willing to throw under the bus?

[DURHAM D]

59. What does that mean?

I am a lesbian and have been involved in the gay rights movement since the mid-70s - a time when most members of the community were afraid to be involved because it meant losing jobs, families, etc.

I am just saying - it is still a viable wedge issue for Republicans to crank up their homophobic base and we need to proceed very strategically.

[GodlessBiker]

63. In other words, wait our turn. I think the right to participate in society like straight people

should be pressed at every turn. If "people like us" think that marriage is something that is important to them, they should pursue every lawful (and some unlawful) means to get it done.

I'm glad the drag queens that started Stonewall didn't stop to think about whether they were acting "strategically."

[DURHAM D]

69. Well - I have been waiting my turn a lot longer than you have.

Your approach is personally insulting.

This is a political forum. My comments are based on political possibilities and strategy. Yours are not.

:hi:

[GodlessBiker]

77. I bet not a hell of a lot longer.

And I apologize if you feel insulted. I did not intend that.

It is clear that we have different approaches as to how important rights come to be recognized. So be it.

However, I would bet a good deal of money that not many rights have been advanced by intentionally delaying the repeal of unjust and discriminatory laws.

[grantcart]

60. I am totally against 'gay marriage'

marriage should be a human right between any two people that want to commit to each other. I am also against heterosexual marriage.

Actually marriage should be a part of religious institutions that consider marriage a holy sacrament and should have no legal standing what so ever.

Everyone should have the same civil rights to have a civil union with their life partner. They can decide before, during or after to have it somlemnized in a religious setting.

[DURHAM D]

61. Actually I agree with you on all of that.

I was dismayed when the community began to talk about "marriage". In my opinion, they went down the wrong road and framed the issue incorrectly. At the time myself and my partner (both of us are ethnic Methodists, agnostic adults and she is a law professor) tried to argue against the framing.

Now, however, twenty five years later we are stuck with it.

[grantcart]

76. and all the good guys who are not perfect guys get slammed

maybe we could start a trend everytime someone starts talking about it to stand up and say we are against it and get it reframed


It worked on santorum.

[DURHAM D]

78. We would need to start with the Human Rights Campaign.

I am not at all sure that will be successful. Seems they have tied "marriage" to other issues (children/adoption). The conversation has become more and more convoluted, not less.

The Repubs truly enjoy watching our community mud wrestle over "marriage" as it concerns our candidates. They know we screwed up and can't get out of the ditch we dug.

[VenusRising]

65. I completely agree with you.

Good post.

[Solon]

79. Oh fuck, not this bullshit again, I fucking hate people who perpetuate this fucking lie!

Marriage was, and always is, a LEGAL institution, even before religions such as Christianity entered the picture. For fuck's sake, don't peddle bullshit here!

[The Anti-Bush]

51. You are wasting your time. This is a lost cause on DU. They would rather

vote for McCain.

[VenusRising]

53. I hope that's not really true.

I hope that we can resolve the issue and bring the party back together. McCain will never be as friendly to the gay community as the Democratic nominee.

[LostinVA]

71. What a fucking divisive lie

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[avrdream]

62. I hate to bump this bullshit that you had to find by digging through his website but:

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!!!!!

McClurkin.

Enough said.

[VenusRising]

64. I'm sorry you feel that way.

McClurkin is not a deal breaker for me considering the Clintons gave us DADT and DOMA.

That's some serious action that did not help the GLBT community.

[DURHAM D]

70. Senator Sam Nunn and Colin Powell gave us DADT -

not Bill Clinton. As for DOMA, necessary at the time.

[VenusRising]

74. He was the President and signed it into law.

The problem is that he promised open service and then reneged on that promise.

[DURHAM D]

75. You know good and well it was way more complicated then that -

The first thing Clinton tried to do during the honeymoon period was to allow open service. He had to settle for the stupid compromise pushed by his own party and the DOD. But you knew that.

[VenusRising]

80. But he signed it.

He is still the President responsible for it.

[QC]

88. How old were you when all that happened?

Do you have first hand memory of it?

[VenusRising]

92. I'm going to be 32 years old this year.

I was either a Junior or Senior in high school when it was signed.

[Maat]

96. I beg to differ - no, DOMA was NOT necessary at the time.

I'm sorry - I spent a year in ConLaw (Constitutional Law). It would have been virtually impossible then for a Constitutional Amendment to pass precluding same-sex marriage or stating that one state did not have to honor another state's permissive laws on same-sex marriage. Therefore, the argument that Clinton had to back DOMA, to preclude the Amendment's passing, is POPPYCOCK. Basically, it would take approval by 2/3 of Congress, and 3/4 of the individual state legislatures. It would never have happened. So, this PFLAGer holds the Clintons fully responsible for their backing of DOMA (and Clinton's signing it).

[DURHAM D]

97. Well - POPPYCOCK back at you.

Congrats for learning what it takes to pass a constitutional amendment in college. I learned that in the 7th grade, or maybe the 6th - not sure.

The issue is/was NOT how many states and congressional votes it takes to pass an amendment or the fear that it would actually pass. The problem was that it was being used as an effective political wedge issue by the right. They were using "gay marriage" as a way to change school boards, state legislatures, state houses and was being trotted out to purge Dems from Congress. Nothing gets up the energy of the right wing like homophobia and the faux Christians were in charge of the repub party and having a ball. The decision was taken at the W.H. after constant meetings, discussions and agreement by leaders of our movement. The point was to take the gas out of the Repub party on this issue.

I suppose I should further explain that if a controversial Constitutional Amendment was hotly debated on the tv every night it would have increased interest in voting ten fold and would have turned out the haters to a frightening degree. And while in the voting booth they would vote against all Dems up and down the ballot.

[Maat]

101. Well, it has continued to be a successful wedge issue since those times.

It is talked about each and every day on the rightwing websites (I read them consistently). The level of antipathy towards GLBT causes and rights simply could not be higher, and failure to pass DOMA would not have significantly increased it(they just went to the meme that DOMA is ineffective). So, there never was a need to cooperate with DOMA.

Secondly, law school went a bit beyond what you learned in elementary school (it's a doctoral program).

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but it IS pure poppycock to let the Clintons off for DOMA. Anyone who believes that they should be let off would probably believe that there was an excuse for voting for the IWR, Clinton the Law School Graduate apparently failing to understand that Booosh would take it and use to go to war, and that it would seriously weaken the protections intended by the Separation of Powers clauses (those effecting such). I think that I have a bridge in San Francisco to sell those that desire to let the Clintons off of the hook. I mean that most respectfully, of course.

[soleft]

66. If actions speak louder than words

Then why don't Obama's actions speak louder than McClurkin's words?

[LostinVA]

73. That's the point: his actions ARE McClurkin's words

[Danger Mouse]

67. Very nice.

:thumbsup:
btw, I love that kitty in your sigline.

[VenusRising]

68. When my blood pressure gets too high from reading here

I just watch kitty trying to catch that bug. I just KNOW one of these times he'll get it. :rofl:

[sueragingroz]

86. too little... too late /nt

[susankh4]

90. Indeed.

This strategy of descending like a god... into a community that meant nothing a few weeks ago makes me want to puke.

This is a clever strategy to sway Ohio voters. Why Ohio? Well..... we have closed primaries. Independents don't get to vote. And Repugs can cross over, but it's a bit of an ordeal. New voters have to wait 30 days.

So.... the only way to mess with the dem electorate is to appeal to Hillary's base at the last minute. And the GLBT community is an easy target.

Don't believe for one minute that Ohio GLBTs are this gullible. I mean... really. They are a savvy electorate.

[Politicub]

94. Nice - I'm glad he posted this

I don't think he had to, but it's nice that he did. I don't believe he'll ever repudiate McClurkin, but at least he takes a strong position in this letter.

[susankh4]

98. This is from Matt Gonzalez in his Op Ed on Obama

"Why should we believe Obama has courage to bring about change? He wouldn’t have his picture taken with San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom when visiting San Francisco for a fundraiser in his honor because Obama was scared voters might think he supports gay marriage (Newsom acknowledged this to Reuters on January 26, 2007 and former Mayor Willie Brown admitted to the San Francisco Chronicle on February 5, 2008 that Obama told him he wanted to avoid Newsom for that reason.)"

The whole article:
http://www.beyondchron.org/articles/The_Obama_Craze_Count_Me_Out_5413.html

[Politicub]

99. Obama is clearly weaker on LGBT issues than Hillary, but

I would vote for him over McCain without hesitation. This letter was a nice touch.

I continue to be pissed off about his campaign's stupid employment of McClurkin to emcee the SC event, but I guess I'm starting to give him the benefit of doubt about how insensetive this was seen by the gay community. Based on how many folks on DU still don't understand why the ex-gays are so caustic to our community, I think Obama can still learn and grow - just like those people may learn and grow. But, he has a ways to go before he gets to Hillary's level for LGBT support.

At this point, even though my avatar is Hillary, I think Obama is going to be our nominee and I'm starting to warm up to him.

[KLee]

102. Thank you Politicub...

for giving him a chance:hi:

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NMMNG]

106. We aren't the ones preaching hatred that causes harm and death to others

I think you have it wrong when you apply the "fucking crazy" label. It belongs to people like McClurkin, dear.

[monomach]

108. McClurkin doesn't preach hatred. He preaches intolerance. There's a difference.

Is his whole "pray the gay away" thing stupid? Yes. Ridiculous? Certainly. Is he an asshole? Absolutely. Should he just shut his trap and let gay folks be gay without yapping on and on about Jesus and shit? You bet he should! If he really believes that God and Jesus are all about love, shouldn't he be preaching acceptance and equal rights (i.e. real marriage)for homosexuals? YES!

But still, he's not a true hatemonger. He goes out and preaches against homosexuality in the "Ummmm ok kids. Gay sex is bad. You shouldn't gay sex, mmmkay? Now let's sing a song about Jesus" way. He's not like those assholes with the "God wants you to kill fags" signs. He's a prick, but he's not worse than your average suburban Catholic priest.

Donnie McClurkin is mildly retarded and awfully ridiculous, but I have yet to see one quote with the kind of hate speech that you see coming from those deep south snake-handler types.

These are people preaching hatred:


This is a guy preaching intolerance:


This is another guy preaching intolerance:


All three are wrong and should just shut up, but you've got to be able to see the difference here.

[NMMNG]

109. McClurkin preaches as much hate as any of them

From GayWired:

McClurkin has accused gays of “trying to kill our children” and has called homosexuality “a curse”. The gospel singer who says he is a "reformed homosexual" in a 700 Club interview said he was ready to declare war on homosexuality.

From Wayne Besen:

McClurkin, currently a senor pastor at Perfecting Faith in Freeport, N.Y., was particularly outspoken against New York's funding of Harvey Milk, a gay high school in New York, suggesting that the school will lead to molestation of children.

"The gloves are off," he said on the Sept. 23, 2003 episode of Rev. Pat Robertson's 700 Club. "And if there's going to be a war, there's going to be a war. But it will be a war with a purpose. This is not a privately funded school. It is a public school funded by taxpayers' money. Why isn't anyone else speaking out? Everyone knows that everyone at the high school is homosexual. That makes for an easy target."

Full text

Accusing us of trying to kill children. Declaring war on us. Comparing gays to pedophiles and claiming that a school for gay teens is a essentially training ground for pedophiles. How is that not preaching hate?

[JackBeck]

119. But...but...but...that's still not hatred, dear.

It's just intolerance...

:eyes:

Wish I had seen the original message. Must have been lovely.

[Bluebear]

111. We can't see the difference, remember? We're fucking crazy.

Just what I need, some newbie sockpuppet freeloader psychoanalyzing me.

[Chovexani]

114. O RLY, SAID THE OWL

I’m not in the mood to play with those who are trying to kill our children. -- Donnie "Jesus Saved Me So Much I'm Only Screwing Half My Male Choir Members Now" McClurkin, The 700 Club, September 23, 2003

LINK (from Wayback, because CBN has since scrubbed the transcript from its website): http://web.archive.org/web/20040419073600/http://cbn.com/700club/profiles/donnie_mcclurkin2.asp

In conclusion, since you're fond of pictures:

[NMMNG]

115. I have an even better picture for him

[DarkTirade]

121. Right click. Save as. :P

[Duncan Grant]

112. Actually, I'd be happy with an apology and a public appearance at a major LGBT event.

How crazy is that?

[Chovexani]

113. You're the one bringing up cannibalism and scat

Yet we're crazy? :shrug:

[terrya]

117. You go off on some crazed, insane tangent about cannibalism and defecation

And you call US "fucking crazy"?

You obviously don't have one single clue about what you're talking about.

I pity you.

[RememberWellstone]

104. right.

I am sure this "speech" will be found orginating from someone else's lips soon enough.

[KLee]

107. l

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4829406

[denem]

116. Obama won't apologize. It's bad politics.

For those who know or care about McClurkin and the 'ex gay' movement, no apology would be sufficient. 'Ex gay' is toxic torture, the worst kind of intermingling of sexuality and religion.

For those who don't know or care, an apology would bring unwelcome new attention to IMHO the biggest mistake of his campaign.

The day for an apology was the next day. Five months on, an apology would not be accepted. And none will be given.

[Solon]

120. Why is homophobia to be treated differently than racism, antisemitism, and other bigotries?

Seriously, why won't ONE Gods be damned Obama supporter come out and say that homophobia is comparable to other types of bigotry and that they are all equally atrocious?

[Iceburg]

124. Obama following Hillary's lead again...Feb 4 she penned an open letter to the GLBT

http://www.ourchart.com/node/299303

A Message to LGBT Americans: “I Want to be Your President”
February 4, 2008 - 12:52pm — editor
On the eve of Super Tuesday, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton offers up a message of support for the LGBT community. Read the New York Senator's guest post below.

By Senator Hillary Clinton

As I have traveled around the country these past twelve months, what I sensed in my heart has been confirmed – America is embracing its LGBT sons and daughters with an acceptance and understanding as never before. On the campaign trail, a father of a gay son will ask about ending Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. A woman will ask why she can be discriminated against just because of who she is. Sometimes they wait furtively for the crowd to thin and then whisper their confidences in a soft voice and sometimes they stand up proudly at town meetings and want me to share my views on how I will help lead the change to assure that this country fulfills its promise to everyone.

Let me tell you what I have been telling voters across America. I am fully committed to the fair and equal treatment of LGBT Americans. For seven long years, the Bush Administration has tried to divide us - only seeing people who matter to them. It's been a government of the few, by the few, and for the few. And no community has been more invisible to this administration than the LGBT community.

I will change that. The best evidence of what I will do as President is what I have already done.

I am proud of my record as First Lady, as a U.S. Senator and as a candidate for President in working toward the fair and equal treatment of LGBT Americans.

· I am proud that as Chair of the Senate Democratic Steering and Outreach Committee in 2006, I worked closely with LBGT community to develop a smart strategy that defeated the Federal Marriage Amendment. I am proud of fighting the FMA as divisive wedge politics at its worst.

· I am proud to be a co-sponsor of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, the Matthew Shepard Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act, and the Domestic Partnership Benefits and Obligation Act which would grant the same benefits (including health insurance) to domestic partners of federal employees that are currently offered to employees’ legal spouses.

· I am proud to have authored the Early Treatment for HIV Act, which expands access to vital treatment options for low-income individuals living with HIV, and fought to fully fund the Ryan White CARE Act.

· I am proud that I hired a National Director of LGBT Outreach within a month of announcing my candidacy for President and to have openly gay and lesbian staffers serving at all levels of my campaign.

· I am proud to have a National LGBT Steering Committee of over 130 that includes openly LGBT elected officials, Board members and opinion leaders on issues ranging from transgender rights, to HIV/AIDS, to “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell”.

· I am proud to have marched in Gay Pride parades as both First Lady and as Senator and to have spoken in front of so many LGBT audiences ranging from the Human Rights Campaign, Empire State Pride Agenda, the Hetrick Martin Institute, PFLAG (Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays), GMHC (Gay Men’s Health Crisis), and the American Foundation for AIDS Research.

· I am proud to have fought Republican efforts to demonize and marginalize the LGBT community, and I will continue to do that as President.

We have so much work to do. When I am President, we will work together to make sure that all Americans in committed relationships have equal benefits and that nothing stands in the way of loving couples who want to adopt children in need. We're going to expand our federal hate crimes legislation and pass the Employment Non-Discrimination Act and assure that they are both fully inclusive of sexual orientation and gender identity. And finally, we will put an end to the failed policy of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Courage, honor, patriotism and sacrifice – the traits that define our men and women in uniform – have nothing to do with sexual orientation.

My father was a conservative Republican, who held very traditional views for much of his life. Yet in his last years, it was a gay couple who lived next door who provided much of the compassion and comfort he and my mother needed as he grew ill. And it was that same neighbor who held his hand as he died. If my father can move, America can move.

To each and every LGBT American, I say this. You have done so much to help this country understand your lives by simply being open and honest about who you are and living your lives with dignity. Thank you for your courage. It is time that we recognize your hard work. I know that this country is ready for changes in the law that reflect the evolution in our hearts.

America deserves a President who appeals to the best in each of us, not the worst; a President who values and respects all Americans and treats all Americans equally no matter who they are or who they love. I want to be that President. I want to be your President.