Has Clinton always referred to Hugo Chavez as a dictator...

[slipslidingaway]

???

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/28/7349/

"...In a major speech yesterday at George Washington University, Sen. Clinton drove the wedge deeper: “If I am entrusted with the presidency, America will have the courage, once again, to meet with our adversaries. But I will not be penciling in the leaders of Iran or North Korea or Venezuela or Cuba on the presidential calendar without preconditions; until we have assessed, through lower-level diplomacy, the motivations and intentions of these dictators.”

So, according to Senator Hillary Clinton, the leader of Venezuela is a dictator.

It’s hard to imagine that Hillary is so uninformed — and has such incompetent foreign policy advisers — that she doesn’t know that President Hugo Chávez and his government have won multiple elections that were characterized as free and fair by international observers. But if she knows this, then she is lying..."

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/speech/view/?id=6196

[nightrider767]

1. Seems to be a good point

Love him or hate him, he seems to operate under the guise of Venezuela's democratic government. He tried to eliminate his term limit in a referendum and that was voted down and he accepted that.

[ananda]

2. Yeah..

That would be kinda tempting.

Don't know if I could withstand it.

But then I'm not running for president.. thank God!

[Sebass1271]

3. I have news for you. Yes, he was elected holding "free" elections

BUT, democracy has started to disappear in Venezuela. I have many venezuelan friends that have escape from his regime already. A friend and family were persecuted by the Hugo Chavez government bc/ the friend's father was speaking against him in a local venezuelan newspaper.

It is happening. and you should live here Miami to be able to listen to the horrible stories of a lot of Venezuelans escaping from Hugo Chavez government.

Essentials things such as Milk can't be found anymore. He is about socialized food and give everyone a little booklet for rationalized foods.

Read more. He might have won some few years ago elected democratically by the people, but Hugo Chavez has turned out to be the opposite of what the people of his country thought they were voting for.

Freedom of the press? Likely hardly to find, if you are against his government and want to protest against of what he is doing to the Constitution, you are sent to jail or beaten by his cops.

That's how things are in Venezuela and most of Latin America, b/c our president in chief ignored Latina America issues for the Iraq war.

[eridani]

41. I'll bet they're right at home with the Cuban exiles who want their whorehouses back

How many of those folks have dark skin? Looks like some of the white folks can't tolerate not ruling the place anymore.

[Cha]

4. Terra Terra Terra, hilary.. and your

little booga booga..ya make me sick.

[UALRBSofL]

5. Where did Hillary say he was a dictator?

Anyway, here's a brief background of his criticisms:

With respect to domestic policies, critics claim that both corruption and crime are rampant.<197><198> They also cite a failing infrastructure and public hospitals.<145> Criticism from Chávez supporters arises from reports that Chávez is not fulfilling his major campaign pledges with respect to labor and land reform.<199><200><201>

Critics have also charged that the Chávez government has engaged in "gigantic fraud" during the 2004 recall referendum.<202> The United States government claims that his cooperation in their war on terror is negligible or purposely indifferent with regards to the FARC and ELN,<203> who are engaged in a conflict with the US-backed Colombian government; nonetheless, the U.S. government says there is no evidence of a direct link between violent groups opposed to its policies and Chávez.<204>

Several public figures have even gone so far as to call for the assassination of Chávez, most notably US Conservative Christian televangelist Pat Robertson.<205> Other such requests have been expressed by Venezuelan actor Orlando Urdaneta<47> and former president of Venezuela Carlos Andrés Pérez.<206> The US Ambassador to Venezuela between 2001 and 2004, Charles Shapiro, also reported to the Chávez administration two potential assassination plots.<47>

Chavez has been accused of concentrating power of judicial and legislative branches.<207> The leading business daily of Argentina, Ambito Financiero, described Venezuela under Chavez in 2007 as having a "nationalized economy, out-of-control spending, government by decree, and perpetual re-election."<208> The daily also compared Chavez to King Louis XIV of France, stating his 2007 inauguration would mark "a concentration of power without precedent in Venezuela".<209>

[jgraz]

6. This is unmitigated lying pro-corporate bullshit

And if Obama ever called Chavez a dictator, he's as much of a liar as Clinton

[Sebass1271]

8. BULLSHIT

IT IS NOT ONLY CORPORATE LIED.. CHAVEZ HAS TAKEN HIS COUNTRY TO GROUND AND IS LOOKING EACH DAY LIKE CUBA.

READ.!!!!

[jgraz]

14. Do you even understand the definition of a dictator?

George Bush is more a dictator than Chavez is.

Hugo Chavez has his problems, but they won't get solved by lying about political reality.

[Sebass1271]

15. Actually, to me, Chavez and Bush are both the same..

I have no respect for neither.

[jgraz]

18. Then you really need to start reading some sources outside of the establishment media

The Chavez story is much more complex than either side makes it out to be, but it's an indication of where Latin America is likely to go in the next 20 years.

[Sebass1271]

23. It is already happening in Latin America, we don't need to wait

20 years. By the way, I am here, meaning I don't believe in the establishment. I do hear from the source, Venezuelans, poor (complaining about freedom of the press) and the middle class (complaining about indivual rights).

Yous should read more.

[jgraz]

26. I read quite enough, thank you.

For instance, I read enough to know that Venezuela under Chavez and Cuba under Castro are both better off economically than any of the American client states in Latin America.

[Sebass1271]

27. Dont' say that to a Democrat that is progressive and believes

in real democracy..

[jgraz]

30. Facts are facts no matter what you want to believe

And anyone who demonstrates your knee-jerk condemnation of Chavez and Morales is neither a progressive nor a strong believer in democracy.

[Sebass1271]

33. I didn't condemn Evo Morales..

I do condemn Hugo Chavez.. and Yes, I am a Democrat. to me, you are communist. Don't mix them. They are not the same. That is from the republican machine playbook. castro has taken advantage and conveniently changed his "communism" to call it "socialism".. which is not what the Democraty party is and stands for.

[jgraz]

36. And here comes the red-baiting. Another fine progressive tradition

:eyes:

[Sebass1271]

29. I re-read that.. WHAT?

better of economically? probably for the cuban leader only who is packeing all the money.. but for the people of cuba, they are dying there.. Why have medicine, when you can't eat?

OMG!!!!!

[jgraz]

32. You should read a bit about Guatemala, El Salvador or Honduras

US corporate imperialism has ruined those countries, like it was ruining Cuba under Batista. No tinpot communist dictator can hope to match the destructive power of American greed.

[Sebass1271]

35. I can agree with that.. but

communism and socialism is NOT THE ANSWER!!!

[jgraz]

37. Then we need to find an economic system that is actually better for Latin America

rather than forcing people to accept our philosophy at the point of a gun.

[anigbrowl]

11. jgraz, Chavez is a dick - you don' have to be a corporate whore to see that

If you think he's some kind of noble leader then you are dismally misinformed.

[jgraz]

16. I said nothing about Chavez except that calling him a dictator is a lie

I like some of what he's doing (e.g. working to alleviate poverty, sticking to American oil pirates) and I dislike other things. Whatever problems he has, and whatever disagreements the US has with him, none of them will be solved by lying about his status as a democratically elected leader.

[slipslidingaway]

20. Exactly....

"Whatever problems he has, and whatever disagreements the US has with him, none of them will be solved by lying about his status as a democratically elected leader."

And he does have every right to not trust the US after the attempted coup.

[Sebass1271]

7. I am not a clinton backer, however, if you want the truth SEE IT

HERE.. from the real sources...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/us/23florida.html?n=Top/News/World/Countries%20and%20Territories/Venezuela

Venezuelans are leaving fleeing to the United States b/c Chávez has tightened his grip on the country’s political institutions, imposing his communist vision and threatening to assert greater state control over many parts of the economy.

I don't consider what his doing Democracy.. :eyes:

[Political Heretic]

10. I'm for what ever is good for the majority poor at bad for the people exploiting power elite.

Can you link me to stories showing me how the majority of the poor and working class people are unhappy with Chavez and doing worse? Then I'll care.

I don't care about what the government is called. I care about what it does for the workers.

[Sebass1271]

12. LIKE ME, you are an Obama supporter.. meaning, you

are good at using computers.. you can actually google that information yourself. In a democracy there's got to be medium. You can't just penalize the elite or the rich all the time. You can't just force and threatened to take their individual rights, I am pragmatic just Like Obama. Capitalism can work if it is done responsible, ethically and within a Democratic form. We all need jobs right?

just sayin'...

[susieq1001]

43. Chavez contols the media in Venezuela very tightly

He shut down a television station for no good reason. I doubt you'll be seeing any stories from poor/working class folks that are doing worse . . .

You can read more here:
http://www.freerctv.com/

And more information about some victims of political persecution here:
http://www.caracasnine.com/cgi-local/content.cgi?l=eng&p=4

[slipslidingaway]

17. For some reason I doubt this NYT article has the whole truth...

:shrug:

[Sebass1271]

24. that's another story...

I understand.

[slipslidingaway]

9. Thanks for the replies, I had not seen Clinton refer to Chavez

as a dictator before and may have missed her prior references.

[jgraz]

19. I heard her do it a couple days ago and almost threw something at the tv

[slipslidingaway]

21. Not the best way to start in 2009, he did get 63% of the vote last

election.

[Sebass1271]

25. Better be prepared to do it at Obama too..

He didn't go to the extend of calling him a dictator, but he did blamed bush for allowing "leaders" like Hugo Chavez and Evo (Bolivia) to take power..
which that made me happy.. it means he is paying attention, not like Bush.. I am sure Hillary was just copying him.. as usual...

Here in Miami in the spanish talk radio shows.. Obama was praised by at least bringing that in the open and at least mentioning Latin American..

He scored high in this city.. Highly organized (politically) and highly critical of politicos. AM radio is all day Politics in every single station.

[jgraz]

28. Not liking Chavez is different than lying about his legitimacy as a leader

[Sebass1271]

31. I HIGHLY DOUBT

he won fair and square.. Venezuela used in the last election the same Diebold touch stone screen voting machine without a paper trail we have in Florida. To me that election was a fraud. He paid the Diebold companies, millions to isntall those in every single state, city and farm..

[jgraz]

34. International observers certified the elections to be free and fair

Which is more than I can say for this country.

[Sebass1271]

38. SURE. Believe it if you wish..

who was there?

I am sorry.. I highly doubt Chavez won it clean.. Chavez reminds me of Bush...

[jgraz]

39. Who was there? Jimmy Carter for one

He observed the recall referendum and testified to its validity.

[Sebass1271]

40. Jimmy Carter

was there, for the recalled referemdum.. I trust Carter. I actually met him once briefly when he came to Miami for a book tour. I admire him, he is a man with great decency and honor. But personally, i believe by the time Carter got there, the damage was already done.

I don't trust Chavez. I don't trust the fact that he paid millions to Diebold to install those voting machines before his last election.

[eridani]

42. Both candidates are foursquare in favor of American imperialism

They wouldn't have gotten corporate backing otherwise.

[zulchzulu]

13. Hillary Diane Clinton always wants to sound "cheap steak tough"

Thank whoever upstairs her time running for President is running out...

[slipslidingaway]

22. We do not need a continuation of the Bush administration stance

toward Venezuela in 2009.