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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:22 PM
Original message
A Tale Of Two Edwards Supporters
Edited on Fri Feb-29-08 04:30 PM by FlyingSquirrel
One moved into Obama's camp; the other into Clinton's. Prior to this they had both been happy as clams (well, they would've been happier if Edwards had been winning). You'd think the one who moved to Obama would be happy still -- perhaps even happier since his preferred candidate seemed to be winning quite handily -- and he was happy enough for awhile, till he realized what had happened to one of his favorite Edwards compatriots. She had become more and more unhappy and alienated here on DU as the weeks went past after Edwards dropped out. Most didn't see the full extent of her unhappiness because she didn't let that out as much in public forums. But it was there. And she was not alone.

Now look, people. Is this what you want? I hear it all the time: "Oh, don't worry, they'll come around. They'll suck it up and support whoever wins the nomination. And if they won't, then they don't belong on DU." Well they may "come around" and they may not. But as long as they're following the rules, they belong on DU. They're our fellow Democrats. They're a part of this COMMUNITY.

I object to those who claim that the people who support Hillary Clinton are making false claims of sexism. She may be losing for many reasons, but you can be sure sexism is one of those reasons. If Barack Obama were losing, racism would be one of the reasons. Just because it isn't the sole reason or even the primary reason (in your opinion), doesn't make it ok.

Sexism exists in this country. It hasn't been conquered and it is not a myth and it has not become rare. I know this personally because I helped a co-worker out in filing a sexual discrimination lawsuit against our employer. Believe me, just because there are laws to protect women in the workplace doesn't mean it's easy getting redress when someone violates those laws. She went back to smoking cigarettes due to the stress of the situation - several years later she died of breast cancer. It might have happened anyway, but who can know? I still place a portion of the blame for her early death on our manager, and on sexism in general. Sexism is real and it has real consequences for real people in real life, far beyond just "hurt feelings".

What's really important here is that we should not be hurting our fellow DU'ers. It doesn't matter who started it. It doesn't matter if the other side is saying nasty things too. Two wrongs don't make a right - what are we, still in kindergarten? At this point, some of us have become so sensitive that ANY attack on Hillary's character is perceived to be an attack on them and, sometimes, on women in general. In some cases they may be right. But even in those cases where they're wrong, should you respond by ramping up the rhetoric and the nastiness?

How about this instead. Try apologizing when someone takes offense to something you've said as being sexist. Even if you didn't mean it that way, even if you think they're out of their minds. Even if you think they're just "playing the victim" or somehow trying to score points for their candidate.

Then think about what it is that you said. Think about whether it would make sense, if applied to a man in the same situation. Maybe in your mind it would. So what? You've most likely still offended them - apologize and let it go. There are more important things in life than being right all the time.

Or maybe, just maybe, after thinking about it you'll realize that you were wrong to say what you did. Great! We're all here to learn things (well, most of us) so now you've just learned something new. Incorporate it into your life.

Mending fences with Clinton supporters should not be done just to "bring them to our side in the general election," if you're making the assumption that Obama will be the nominee. It should be done because it's the right thing to do, because we're a community here, because it matters when someone's feelings are hurt. And if you HAVEN'T hurt anyone's feelings, (or don't believe you have), you should still stand up for others when you see they have been upset and believe they have some reason to be. See something blatantly sexist? Alert on it! Don't just shake your head and click on the next thread. These are our sisters, mothers, aunts, grandmothers, daughters, fellow DU'ers. They deserve to be respected and treated as the equals they are.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. An intelligent, coherent and well-stated post.
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bravo!
As an Obama supporter (former Edwards guy) I'm frankly embarrassed by some of the more vociferous O supporters. Let's stay classy everyone, and remember who the real enemy is! (McChimpy)
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. oops - dupe
Edited on Fri Feb-29-08 04:53 PM by Beaverhausen
:hi:
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. beautiful post
I sincerely hope this thread stays civil.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. It better or I'm gonna kick some ass.
;)
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Beautiful post! Thank you Flying Squirrel!
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. You are quite welcome!
:)
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NastyRiffraff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thank you!
I think people on both sides should think before they type.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Very well done.
:pals:
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-29-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. thank you for the thoughtful post
it is appreciated.
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
11. Wish we had more of this.
Kudos from the lounge.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
12. Recommended
:kick:
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thank you for this flyingsquirrel ...
K&R :kick:
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks for this. I hope more people will read and understand
what is happening around here lately. We will all be needed to defeat McCain in the GE.
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Support the ACLU Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
15. Thanks for posting this
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
16. Excellent! K & R. Hope many will read, and take to HEART.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. Absolutely spot on. K & R.
This discussion is so important. The only we that we will see the end of this horrific situation in this country is to elect people whose party platform supports civil rights for all, protecting the environment and protecting and growing the middle class.

And, as a long time feminist myself, I was blown away at the level of sexism that popped up here and on the MSM regarding Sen. Clinton's run.

Again, thanks for such a well written post, it speaks well of our community when we have such insightful people posting here.

:kick:
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Thank you, and thanks to all who recommended this thread!
And kudos to GDP (never thought I'd be saying THOSE words!) for keeping it positive!

:grouphug:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
19. Let's say that a majority of men and women in this community are
Edited on Sun Mar-02-08 01:15 AM by Old Crusoe
not in fact sexists or racists.

Working with that premise, assuming that landscape, allowing for exceptions, we did not see "sexist" threads related to Senator Clinton when she was riding at the top of the polls. The summer went by and on into fall, and you would have been hard-pressed to find anyone complaining of sexism in relation to her frontrunner status. She was all over the media and many threads on DU and other blogs bemoaned the "crowning" of Hillary Clinton versus the other 7 candidates for our nomination.

When the field narrowed and the stakes rose, and only two strong contenders for the nomination remain, we see a dramatic correspndence between Sen. Clinton's collapse of support nationally and "sexism" posts on these boards.

There was the occasional news story in which Elizabeth Edwards took a shot at Senator Clinton. I wouldn't attribute that to sexism but to a kind of traditional elbowing-under-the-basket aspect of politics. Would the same allowance be made if a male spouse had done the elbowing? Perhaps not then and certainly not now, because anyone who finds fault with Senator Clinton is "sexist." The theory is under considerable strain though, since Elizabeth Edwards, an extremely intelligent soul, most certainly is not a sexist. Yet the criticisms were launched.

I respectfully disagree with the OP regarding "sexism" as something we can be "sure" of as a factor in her having fallen so far so fast. It is not sexist to point out that the Clinton campaign did not have a strategy in place post-Feb. 5th and that they arrogantly assumed the nomination would be in the bag from that point forward.

It is also not sexist to assert that her campaign has been top-down from the very onset while the other 7 announced Demorcratic candidates strove with varying degrees of success to build a grassroots scaffolding for their candidacy. Absent that structure, and with no post-February 5th strategy at all, Hillary Clinton got smashed in Wisconsin, a state she originally held a lead in by very significant percentages, and which turned out in even larger percentages to support Barack Obama, and not because Hillary Clinton is female.

I reject the association of her collapse in support as being owed to "sexism."

If we are a community here, we are a community of people with often very different takes on the same issues or candidates.

Three days out, Senator Clinton is leading in Ohio and Rhode Island, and possibly in Texas, while Senator Obama leads in Vermont. If she wins those first three, she's obviously back in the game, and back in the game on merits and appeal and not because Barack Obama is Afro American. If Barack Obama wins one or both of Ohio and Texas, his victory will not be attributable to "sexism" on the part of voters in those states held against his opponent.


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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Sorry, I already closed with a group hug! ;-)
Edited on Sun Mar-02-08 01:21 AM by FlyingSquirrel
Here, why don't you repost that one on this thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4809025

I just really don't want to argue with ya here.

:toast:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. You can do what you want. I reposted in the Edwards group.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Thanks for some
Edited on Sun Mar-02-08 05:25 PM by zidzi
factual prospective on the OP's assertion, Crusoe.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. Nicely done FlyingSquirrel!
Edwards would be proud of that.
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