If Barack Obama Loses The Nomination, It Won't Be Because He Is A Black Man

[Mezzo]

Talking to my friends and relatives in the Ohio area, many have said that Barack Obama's being black has absolutely nothing to do with them not wanting to vote for him. They feel that he has run like a republican, and can't support someone who does not offer specifics, but just a lot of "I agree with Hillary".

Since Bill Clinton is seen as a beacon of light around the world, they fell it speaks volumes if we were to put him back in the White House. Two minds being batter than one, and he knows the ropes so to speak.

There is an excitement there about breaking the glass ceiling too, but mostly, they just say he needs more specifics.

****AND**** he seems to have been *FOR* the war before he was against it from the beginning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN30M6StFfk

[Occam Bandage]

1. Don't worry. He won't.

[lastliberalintexas]

8. How the hell is yours and other Obama supporters' arrogance any

different than what we all put up with from the Clinton supporters 6 montsh ago?

It's a copycat thread that you could have responded to much better than that.

[Drunken Irishman]

12. The big difference is Clinton's arrogance came prior to one vote being counted.

Obama's comes from the fact 70% of pledged delegates have been allocated already.

[lastliberalintexas]

15. Arrogance is arrogance, no matter when displayed

And a sore winner is as much a turnoff as a sore loser.

[Occam Bandage]

19. A "sore winner?" So is that admitting we've won? It's hardly arrogance, then, isn't it?

[lastliberalintexas]

28. I personally think Obama will win the nomination

HOwever, your statement was posted as though Obama has already won, when he hasn't.

[Occam Bandage]

32. So what's the problem?

I didn't phrase it as if he had already won. I did not say "He didn't" lose the nomination. I said "he won't", because he won't. Even you admit that he's going to win it.

[lastliberalintexas]

40. No, I said I think he will

I don't have a crystal ball, and neither does anyone else here. At least not one that actually works.


Y'all have fun with your circle jerk pile on. You people act like everyone who posts anything critical of Obama or his supporters is a Clinton fan, I'm not. Hell I posted a great little thread about Obama's campaign stop here in Beaumont and how he has generated excitement like I haven't seen since Bill Clinton, but if I dare to ask that his supporters be a little nicer and gloat a little less, then I must be the enemy, right?


Makes me glad I voted for someone other than the favorite 2. :)

[unapatriciated]

49. Agreed

All I see on here are personal attacks on fellow democrats, the worst was demanding Clinton leave the party. I'm very glad I voted for Edwards. Don't much care which of the two front runners wins, they are very much alike and either one will be better than McCain.

[Mezzo]

51. I think he will too, since the Republicans get to vote for him.

Seriously, if we give more credence to a Republican in Texas than we do to a Democrat in Florida, we will CERTAINLY have the nominee the Republicans want to go against in the Fall.

[Drunken Irishman]

21. So saying we won automatically makes someone a sore winner?

C'mon, even Clinton folks admit it's probably over for her.

[thunder rising]

26. If you don't concede, you're not a loser (Hillary Rule #195)

[barb162]

33. Actually, Obama was arrogant before he got those delegates. n/t

[Yael]

59. The best 30 seconds on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xGsX-R_ZTQ

[Occam Bandage]

16. Here's the difference, dear:

Clinton was arrogant before a single vote was cast. We simply aren't deluded; we see that Clinton no longer has a realistic path to the nomination.

[lastliberalintexas]

20. See my reply to your drunk friend

I don't care when it's displayed, it's still in poor taste.

[lastliberalintexas]

37. With your edit, you can take your condescending "dear"

and stick it up your ass. :)


It's a good thing I don't judge Obama by many of his supporters here.

[Occam Bandage]

42. Edit? I don't recall changing anything substantive.

[melody]

18. The difference is the time period involved and the fact that Obama is the nominee

Anything speculation beyond this is just blue sky dreaming based on political machinations.

[lastliberalintexas]

36. No, he is not the nominee

I personally think he will win the nomination, but he doesn't have it sewn up yet. Is it too much to ask that his supporters acknowledge that he is still campaigning?



What the fuck is up with the pile on? Not even the Clinton supporters attack me like this, and I've gotten plenty of shit from them as well.

[melody]

46. I didn't attack you at all, I merely stated reality

My candidate was John Edwards. When Edwards left the race, I saw where the race was headed and backed that nominee.
It's more important that we unify the Democrats and beat the Republicans than it is for me to have my individual
candidate win.

[lastliberalintexas]

47. I don't have a candidate

That's the problem with this forum, everyone thinks everyone else is committed to a particular candidate. I just asked for a little more humility, a little less gloating from a supporter of a campaign which looks likely to win but hasn't yet. It wasn't attractive from the Clinton supporters and it hasn't been nice from the Obama supporters lately either. But the response was that it's justified because Obama has the votes, and all I've said is that that kind of gloating/arrogance is not warranted regardless of when displayed.

I guess I just don't understand why my original comment to Mr. Bandage warranted so many responses from others, when it didn't involve them. :shrug:


But whatever. This has been a nice reminder of why I avoid the battles, since I don't care who wins between the 2.

[melody]

50. My only candidate is a strong Democratic party

You're misreading disagreement as an attack. When you make a strong statement, you ought to be prepared for
strong responses. This is an open forum. We're not here to bear witness to epiphanies.

[Yael]

60. Actually, I think they are just responding to you

:shrug:

[Bicoastal]

2. Mezzo's friends and relatives say it's all over for Obama!

Oh noooooooooooo!

[Mezzo]

3. No, they said they wouldn't support him. No one says anything is over until the convention

except Obama supporters.

[Bicoastal]

5. I know, I know. But my friends and relatives say just the opposite, frankly.

And I'm still betting he wins.

[LordJFT]

10. I've been hearing the same

I'm willing to bet most of these "I know people that won't vote for Obama if he wins the nomination" stories are fake

[SammyWinstonJack]

23. Well I am not fake and I won't vote for Obama if he gets the nomination.

:shrug: I can't stand him.

[anonymous171]

34. You're not a democrat then?

[Political Heretic]

44. Your personal distaste is more important than the lives of US soliders.

Well done, sir. :eyes:

If Hillary gets the nomination I WILL be voting for her even though I've come to be disgusted by her campaign.

That's because I can put the interests of real people and the lives real mother's sons and daughters ahead of myself.

Edwards was my first choice this primary season, and I'm pretty ashamed of your statement, and I think he would be too.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mezzo]

52. Serious.

:p One good turn certainly deserves another, sweets.

[Faygo Kid]

6. Two minds are indeed often batter than one.

Kind of a screwy post, but there you are. We will see what cake is baked on Tuesday, at this point.

[lligrd]

7. When Hillary Loses The Election It Won't Be Because She Is A Woman

It will be because she pandered to the Republicans and lost a good part of her base.

[lastliberalintexas]

41. In part, I agree

I think that there are plenty of people out there who would refuse to vote for Clinton because she is a woman, as there are plenty who will refuse to vote for Obama because he is Black. There are also legitimate criticisms of each candidate, their campaigns and their past votes, all of which will also be taken into account by the voters.

I just hope that whichever one wins the nomination, that there aren't enough bigots to tilt the election away from Dems.

[barb162]

43. I guess Obama will lose then, because if you want to talk about pandering....

[lligrd]

48. Nice Edit nt

[RBInMaine]

9. Try listening to everything he says, and there are plenty of

specifics. And he doesn't always just say, "I agree with Hillary." Sure, there's a lot of agreement on a number of policy, and also some differences. She has at times also said that she agrees with him. People need to actually do more homework than listent to snippets on the corporate evening news and in the political commercials. Try reading his two books. Try looking at his website. PLENTY of specifics. Finally, he WAS against the war from the start and freely admits he was vague in talking about it just prior to the convention so as not to be divisive at that time.
ANYONE would have done the same, and he has been damn honest about it (unlike Hillary who has flipped and flopped and parsed and verbally triangulated and avoided straight answers to beat all hell).

[anonymous171]

11. "Since Bill Clinton is seen as a beacon of light around the world"

I thought we were electing Hillary? I guess not.

[Crazy Dave]

13. Yeah but if Hillary loses it's because she's a woman

Puhleez

[backscatter712]

14. Dude, pass the bong!

That must be some gooooood shit you're smokin'...

[saltpoint]

17. Correct. It will be because he's left-handed AND from Illinois.

Toxic combo. Entirely like we've seen the last of him any day now.

[Crazy Dave]

31. Oh no!

You just "swift boated" him :wow:

[saltpoint]

35. LOL!

[KLee]

22. Care for a mint? n/t

[jgraz]

24. It also won't be because he won fewer delegates

[Joe the Revelator]

25. Your friends and relative are idiots

Please enlighten me how Obama is running like a republican when Hillary is running on fear and attacks.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

27. I agree. If Obama loses the nomination it will be because

Hillary has sued and connived and threatened her way to the nomination. Because, let's be honest, that's the only way she's going to win at this point. There's no way she's going to get 57-58% of the vote in every remaining state, and that is what it would take for her just to match Obama's pledged delegate count.

[RazBerryBeret]

29. a little disagreement...

I'm a lifetime Ohioan. my neighborhood--generally very republicans, we democrats stay pretty quiet--is sporting 4 Obama signs.. Zero Hillary signs and Zero McCain. I'm taking that as a good sign. My fellow Dems are mostly for Obama. they are computer-literate enough to search for his "specifics" ... Most people I hear at work (large coporate environment) are backing Obama in the hopes of a different type of Governtment--one of the people, for the people and by the people. Unlike what we've been through the last 7 years.

[peace13]

30. Can't really tell you are from.

I am in Ohio and I will tell you that we have Rethuglicans coming to Obama. Go figure. You are right that it has nothing to do with his blackness. It has to do with his humanness. Hillary sold the war like it was hers. Nothing you can say will change that. Sorry to say but I think that you are being less than truthful.

[cbayer]

38. Did anyone get this? nt.

[Yael]

39. Proud2BMezzo -- I missed you and your anecdotal reports from the ground

:hug:

[K Gardner]

45. LOL !!

[Penndems]

53. "They feel that he has run like a republican . . "

Well, Senator Obama has certainly made no secret of his admiration for former President Reagan's governance and sway over the American people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFLuOBsNMZA

*************************************************************************************************

Which is ironic, in light of Reagan's history with issues pertaining to African-Americans:

1. He strongly opposed passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act (Reagan said it was "humiliating to the South").

2. Reagan kicked off his 1980 campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi - site of the murders of three civil rights workers, and stated that "I believe in states' rights".

3. In 1981, Reagan attempted to reverse a policy denying tax-exempt status to private schools that practice racial discrimination and sought to grant an exemption to Bob Jones University - despite the school’s racist ban on interracial dating.

4. Reagan actively opposed passage of the Open Housing Act, a measure to end discrimination in housing.

5. As President, Reagan cut funding for civil rights enforcement.

6. William Bradford Reynolds, Reagan’s Assistant Attorney general for civil rights, stated that the administration would no longer use goals and timetables to help eradicate racial discrimination and sought to make illegal voluntary affirmative action programs.

7. Clarence Pendleton, a divisive black conservative, was appointed chair of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights.

8. Reagan pushed through a cut in federal taxes but balanced those cuts on the backs of the poor, slicing nearly $50 billion from the budget the first year.

9. Reagan cut social spending drastically, disproportionately effecting minority communities.

10. Reagan opposed race-based preferences during the time when minorities were struggling to break free from the shackles of poverty and institutionalized racism.

11. Reagan attempted to fire Mary Frances Berry, the head of the Civil Rights Commission. She supported race-based preferences which Reagan opposed. He also appointed Clarence Thomas to the CRC. (BTW, it was former President Clinton who appointed Ms. Berry the head of the Civil Rights Commission.)

12. After taking office in 1981, Reagan began a sustained attack on the government's civil rights apparatus, opened an assault on affirmative action and social welfare programs,

13. Reagan waged war on the small, black Caribbean nation of Grenada which was no threat at all to the United States.

14. During his presidency, Reagan fired members of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights who criticized his civil rights policies, including his strong opposition to affirmative action programs.

15. Reagan supported the apartheid government in South Africa and labeled Nelson Mandela's African National Congress a notorious terrorist organization. In 1981, Reagan said he was loyal to the South African regime because it was "a country that has stood by us in every war we've ever fought, a country that, strategically, is essential to the free world in its production of minerals."

African American leaders and organizations pressured Congress to take action and ultimately it passed sanctions against South Africa. Reagan vetoed the bill, but Congress overrode it.

16. Reagan also attempted to limit and gut the Voting Rights Act and he slashed important programs like the Comprehensive Employment and Training Act that provided assistance to African-Americans.

17. Reagan also supported racism with remarks like those that characterized poor, black women as “welfare queens driving Cadillacs.”

18. Reagan opposed making Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday a holiday.

*************************************************************************************************** A little memory refresher:

"In Trouble With Blacks", Time Magazine, Monday, June 6th, 1983:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,950868-2,00.html

[KLee]

54. Democrats...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4829406

[VolcanoJen]

55. Weird.

Living in Ohio, and talking to my Ohio friends who are living in Ohio, I'm not getting even an inkling of what you're saying.

Your mileage may vary, I guess.

:shrug:

[Eurobabe]

56. Aren't you GONE yet? Pizza is coming, smell it?

[Redstone]

57. "Many have said." You lost ALL credibility right there.

Redstone

[Yael]

58. Another report from the ground from Baghdad Mezzo

[cali]

61. I have the opposite experience. Literally no one I know or know of

is going to vote for Hillary at town meeting on Tuesday. Most of my friends are less than thrilled about seeing the Clintons back in the WH. In fact, many of them feel a low level dread at the prospect They want to move forward and not back. Most of my friends don't buy the stupid and false meme that Obama has no specifics. And they aren't so simple that they can't understand why he's voted to fund the troops.

I know how VT will vote on Tuesday. OH looks to be much closer.

[stillcool]

62. It will be because of the Supreme Court.