*NEW* Clinton Cosponsors Legis to Ban Use of Priv. Sec. Contr. in Iraq & Afgh. Obama: NOT R/O

[rodeodance]

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/29/obama-present-on-continued-use-of-blackwater/


Obama Present on Continued Use of Blackwater

By Alegre on February 29, 2008 at 4:33 PM

An article in the current issue of The Nation discusses comments from a senior foreign policy advisor to Sen. Obama, in which they make clear BO’s refusal to rule out continued use of private security forces such as Blackwater.

…………..

In other words – they can literally get away with murder (and they have) and BO is keeping open his options when it comes to using them on the ground in Iraq. Maybe that’s why he says he’ll bring our combat troops home but he refuses to declare he will end the occupation entirely.

Make the jump – you know you want to…

A senior foreign policy adviser to leading Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has told The Nation that if elected Obama will not “rule out” using private security companies like Blackwater Worldwide in Iraq. The adviser also said that Obama does not plan to sign on to legislation that seeks to ban the use of these forces in US war zones by January 2009, when a new President will be sworn in.

Obama’s broader Iraq withdrawal plan provides for some US troops to remain in Iraq - how many his advisors won’t say. But it’s clear that Obama’s “Follow-on force” will include a robust security force to protect US personnel in Iraq…

Contrast this with something Hillary’s Senate office put out earlier today…

Senator Clinton Cosponsors Legislation to Ban Use of Private Security Contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan

Washington, DC – Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton announced today that she has cosponsored legislation to ban the use of Blackwater and other private mercenary firms in Iraq.

“From this war’s very beginning, this administration has permitted thousands of heavily-armed military contractors to march through Iraq without any law or court to rein them in or hold them accountable. These private security contractors have been reckless and have compromised our mission in Iraq. The time to show these contractors the door is long past due. We need to stop filling the coffers of contractors in Iraq, and make sure that armed personnel in Iraq are fully accountable to the U.S. government and follow the chain of command,” said Senator Clinton.

The legislation requires that all personnel at any U.S. diplomatic or consular mission in Iraq be provided security services only by Federal Government Personnel. It also includes a whistleblower clause to protect contract personnel who uncover contract violations, criminal actions, or human rights abuses.

http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=293878&&



February 28, 2008

Senator Clinton Cosponsors Legislation to Ban Use of Private Security Contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan…….

[rodeodance]

1. Note that this includes a "a whistleblower clause"--something very much needed

[JDPriestly]

2. Kicked and recommended.

[rodeodance]

3. Much needed legislation.

[papau]

67. but too far left for Obama - this might get passed so he can't endorse - unlike his

programs for the left that his chief economic adviser says won't be passed so don't worry about them - they're just campaign words.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

101. too bad she wouldn't vote to ban cluster bombs

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4842249&mesg_id=4842577

[rodeodance]

21. thanks--need to spread this wide and far.

[Submariner]

4. It's a good move on Obama's part

Leave the Mercenaries behind to be killed while they provide cover for U.S. troops to withdraw from that Bush clusterfuck. The mercs are pond scum, and can be used as tools and armor to protect our Troops.

[rodeodance]

5. NO, that is wrong. Clinton has plan without use Blackwater types.

[Submariner]

8. That plan is 5 years too late....an obvious election ploy at this point

You don't put in 180,000 Mercs with 160,000 Troops and then all of a sudden, cut out the Mercs. Too late for a plan, the Mercs are part of the problem. Like I said above, we can use this worthless merc trash to provide cover to our Patriots withdrawing from Babylon.

[rodeodance]

9. She has had her plan up early--Discussed the details in the First debate.

[Jim Sagle]

93. Good way to cover our collective ass at the Iraqis' expense.

:puke:

[indimuse]

12. why don't you send that to your boy..

so HE knows that's the plan...?

[KittyWampus]

31. Your "boy"?

[zabet]

41. I see Obama supporters refer to

Hillary as 'your girl' when responding
to posts made by Hillary supporters.
:shrug:

[shadowknows69]

44. Yeah, "your girl" doesn't have historically racist overtones.

[zabet]

53. Maybe not as much as the 'your boy'

but I am assured through History
that there actually were female slaves
referred to this way.
You can see racism in every little inflection
of life if you choose to do so, the same applies
for sexism.
My issue with Obama claiming anything as racist
is the fact that he dislikes being referred to as
'bi-racial' or 'mixed', preferring to be referred
to as African-American. Does this mean Obama is
racist against his White heritage? If I looked for
racism in every inflection of him, I could see it that
way. Racism is not reserved for African-Americans, it
is when one is biased against a race other than their
own. If Obama claims African-American over bi-racial,
doesn't that make him racist against his White half?

[helderheid]

69. Last I checked, Hillary was caucasian.

[zabet]

70. And? Referring to her as 'your girl' is sexist.

It demeans her accomplishments as
a mature, successful, Adult woman.
Calling her a girl implies immaturity,
lack of experience, flighty, prone to
whims (hormonal), and SUBSERVANT etc.
They are both not really nice but, like
I said before, you can find racism and
sexism in every little inflection if you
choose to do so.

[helderheid]

71. I've never referred to her as "your girl". "Your boy" has a clear history of racism. n/t

[zabet]

74. Maybe not you but, I have seen it plenty.

Not that I am saying it has not had
racist connotations through History
but, times have changed and every time
it is used is not necessarily in a
racist undertone. The fear of anything
negative about Obama being labled as
racist propaganda is what I believe is
the main reason the press has tip-toed
around Obama and handled him with such
'kid gloves'. They have been smearing
the Clintons for over 10 years and being
the good Democrats we are, we sat by and
let it become the norm, we were complicit.

[helderheid]

75. I get your point, however "boy" has waaaay too much of a racist history I don't know why anyone

would go anywhere near using that word while referring to anyone of color.

[goclark]

85. The fact that some can't seem to understand what

you are wisely pointing out on a "progressive" Board speaks volumes.

[helderheid]

107. Mind blowing. n/t

[JAbuchan08]

105. Hillary called herself that

go call hillary sexist.

[BlackVelvet04]

108. but it has historically sexist overtones.......

sucks don't it?

[ContinentalOp]

81. Hillary called HERSELF that!

"I'm your girl" was one of her campaign slogans.

[rodeodance]

88. i know that and I do not have problem with that..

[JAbuchan08]

104. Hillary uses "your girl" herself, and many Hillary supporters do as well

the rest of us use it sarcastically BECAUSE she uses it.

[Bluerthanblue]

92. I don't believe that is it- without mercenaries we will be forced to

initiate a draft- immediately- just to maintain-

I don't think people are aware of this reality.

peace~

[MaineDem]

6. I didn't know there was a "present" option in the US Senate. n/t

[rodeodance]

7. you know its word play for him sitting on the fence.

[donheld]

97. In other words it's a

lie.

[rodeodance]

23. btw: there is a NOT voting option along with the aye and nay

[rodeodance]

10. and a related thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4829439&mesg_id=4829439

[indimuse]

11. K&R

:dem:
:kick:


So Obama is for private armies...blackwater...katrina..iraq...blackwater...shame on Obama!

[rodeodance]

13. yeah-BO needed to say he would get them out. my guess he will flip-flop later as a political

convenience.

[aasleka]

16. Well it shows he has good judgement and honestly it makes him look good

He does not have all the information yet until he sits in the White House and is keeping from making promises until he knows the reality. It may be that if he did support such a thing that the military has been so abbused it would leave us vulnerable in some way, whatever you can say about Obama it isn't that he hasn't been well thought out and reasonable. I say good for him to take a politically uneasy position until he has assesed the situation as commander in chief.

[rodeodance]

17. Ha Ha ---good try. Both are Senators--both know the details. But you say that

BO needs the details?

Hillary knows--by your "logic"--BO is out of the loop!!

[BlackVelvet04]

109. does it hurt when you twist yourself into a pretzel to justify him? n/t

[rodeodance]

14. This is great folks---she wants the US out of Iraq completely!!

[dkf]

15. While I would normally think this goal was a good thing

with Hillary I am beginning to wonder about her ability to plan things out.

Frankly, it looks like an election gambit without much thought behind it. A hail Mary if you will.

This would not fit into my definition of getting out carefully as I don't see how you are going to staff these positions with regular military on Day One. And if anyone is going to tell me that we have spare personnel to carry out these duties I will laugh in your face.

Moreover, the thought that Bush will execute any preparations to facilitate the pullout of contractors on Day One is ludicrous.

Hillary must be in lala land.

[rodeodance]

18. no dice. She has early detailed plan to get troops out and now this legislation--Obama

is a Senator. He had a chance to develop the same--or at least say yes.

instead he sits on the fence. Many here have blasted our use of Blackwater types--She is for getting them out.

[dkf]

27. Is she going to usurp Bush's CIC role before he is out of office?

That is the only way I can see preparing the field for the removal of contractors on Day One.

Again, she completely underestimates Bush, like she did with the IWR.

I'm sorry. I'm going to have to vote "No Confidence" on Hillary.

[rodeodance]

29. what a silly non-production post. but you knew that didn't you.

[dkf]

34. My point is there is no way there is going to be

a replacement force for the contractors on day one of the next President's term.

Ironically, to do so would represent a "surge" in our military force, but really it would only be a replacement.

[rodeodance]

39. Very little will happen on day one. But she has introduced this bill. She is pro-active on this

very important issue.

[aasleka]

19. exactly! I think I want someone with good judgement answering the phone

who has thought through consequences and circumstances instead of looking to whatever political wind is blowing that day.

I think some of these posters owe Barack an Obamapology!

[rodeodance]

20. She is working to get US out of Irag. Obama sits on fence. And you just add snarks to

this discussion.
Stay on focus of the OP

[dkf]

38. I think this will put our troops in danger. jmo of course.

But I did have the good judgment to oppose this war because I thought it would be impossible to win when it turned into a civil war.

[rodeodance]

40. Clinton has a detailed plan for the SAFE removal of our troops (for a long time now)

[dkf]

83. What she wants to do is impossible. The numbers don't add up.

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/02/just-as-blackwa.html

"Obama seems to be confident enough in his lead that he can risk political fallout of the acknowledgment that whoever becomes the next president will have little choice but to continue reliance upon contracted security. The math is simple. The number of Blackwater, Triple Canopy and DynCorp personnel in Iraq is nearly equal to the number of Diplomatic Security Service officers worldwide (approximately 1395 vs. 1450). The US government is not in a position to replace them.

Obama's campaign seems to understand something about the contracting issue and now that Senator Clinton has taken a position, it's time for her to do her homework and maybe even bring on a new national security advisor who understands the complexity of the issues. "

Hillary needs to do her homework.

[rodeodance]

86. our Marines have always protected the dips before and can do so again

[dkf]

32. So far Barack's judgment has been pretty exquisite

originally with the Iraq War and secondly with the election and his delegate strategy.

He can see so much better than she can the possibilities and options and also the possible problems.

When he was debating her and she tried to whack him on Farakkhan, he was able to navigate though that thought process in a few seconds and recalibrate.

I know that was not a big deal, but seeing how he can detect danger, review his options, and pivot was impressive to me.

Not even the big dog has that. Indeed I begin to see how Bill Clinton is sometimes a little too much pitbull who turns into a bull in a China shop.

[rodeodance]

36. So far she is holding him. And this legislation shows she can multitask very well.

[Inuca]

45. Cosponsoring a bill

introduced by somebody else several months ago is no proof of strenuous multitasking http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:SN02398:@@@P

[rodeodance]

50. Waiting for Obama to sign on instead of fence-sit.

[Inuca]

54. Please have a look at my post below ("to clarify")

he introduced on his own a bill along the same lines (though less strongly worded) more than a year ago.

[rodeodance]

56. and??

[Inuca]

59. The bill he introduced a year ago

is the opposite of fence-sitting.

[rodeodance]

61. This bill is more inclusive.

[Inuca]

63. I agree

It may also be less realistic, I do not know. The fact that none of the strong antiwar voices in the Senate did not sign on to it may be an indication. But again, in all fairness, it may be a better bill than the one introduced by Obama, I just do not know.

[rodeodance]

65. I have read your posts . Thanks. I am pushing for a stronger bill as I

think in the end many get watered down.

Need to start strong.

[carlotta]

22. I am speechless

This is "change"?

[rodeodance]

24. Clinton has lots of legislation. It is a contination of her hard work as a Senator

[rodeodance]

25. k

[rodeodance]

26. Related thread here:

hillary is strong on foreign policy and will protect the US.


orum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject Why Sen. Clinton is right on in her ad!
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4827051#4827051
4827051, Why Sen. Clinton is right on in her ad!
Posted by journalist3072 on Fri Feb-29-08 07:56 PM

I love the ad by Sen. Clinton, and the ad speaks truth.

It's not about fear mongering. As President Clinton has said repeatedly, when a person becomes President, they not only try to deal with all the things that they said they would do during the campaign.

But they also have to deal with all of the other stuff that they never imagined or anticipated that comes up, for example Hurricane Katrina.

When President Clinton was interviewed on C-Span for the Presidential Libraries series, he said that at his library, there's a kiosk-type thing where you can pretty much plug in any day from his Presidency, and his schedule on that day will pop up.

He did that because he wanted the American people to see the vast variety of things that a President deals with in a day....the sheer diversity of issues that a President must deal with.

And for me, that is exactly the lesson I take away from Sen. Clinton's ad....that we need a President who is equipped to deal with all of the unexpected events....i.e. a Hurricane Katrina or a tsunami. Who is able to rise to the occassion and deal with the myriad of issues that are going to come up in the course of a President's day?

[caseycoon]

28. K&R n/t

[rodeodance]

30. ;-)---luv your tagline

[caseycoon]

42. It's snaggable! :o) n/t

[rodeodance]

43. hey thanks--will do

[bigtree]

33. K'd and R'd

:kick::woohoo:

[rodeodance]

46. back to yah;-)

[Yossariant]

35. Excellent, rodeodance. Thanks for posting this.

:woohoo:

[rodeodance]

37. you bet.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

47. good on Clinton TAKE NOTICE at least she will repeal the Bush EO on these mercenaries!

[rodeodance]

58. If these mercenaries stay--it just continues the US involment. They need to go!

[ProSense]

48. "Obama Present on Continued Use of Blackwater"? What BS! Mark Penn prepared Blackwater's testimony!

To help answer questions about a rash of killings by his employees in Iraq, Erik Prince, the founder and CEO of Blackwater, hired the PR and lobbying firm run by Hillary Clinton’s top campaign strategist, Mark Penn. Penn is the CEO of Burson-Marsteller, whose lobbying arm, BKSH, prepped Prince for his testimony.

link


On edit: So Hillary final gets around to sign onto someone else's legislation after mismanaging her campaign into a corner?

[Inuca]

52. She did not introduce a damn thing

she just signed on something introduced by Sanders (see my post below).

[rodeodance]

55. See OP

[rodeodance]

77. And no one is Claiming introduced. you are jumping to conclusions

[rodeodance]

60. Clinton is standing up to get the US out of Iraq.

[SIMPLYB1980]

49. K&R!

[rodeodance]

80. :-)

[Inuca]

51. To clarify

This is a bill introduced in the Senate by Bernie Sanders back in NOvember, to which Clinton decided to add her august name yesterday. Reminds me of the votes on a Feingold withdrawal amendment that I was watching in the Senate a while back, when RIGHT BEFORE THE VOTE Feingold stood up and said that he was just told that Sen. Clinton would like to be added as a co-sponsor.

On the other hand, back in February of last year, Obama introduced a bill called "A bill to require accountability and enhanced congressional oversight for personnel performing private security functions under Federal contracts, and for other purposes." (summary here http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:SN00674:@@@D&summ2=m&). True, it is less radical than what Sanders proposed, but it may be more realistic, I do not know, I do not have the time nor the patience to read through the details. Obama's bill is cosponsored by Conrad, Kerry, Durbin, and Whitehouse.

My conclusion about the OP: much ado about very little.

[rodeodance]

57. thanks. OP says cosponsors.

[ProSense]

64. Right, so what's the big deal? Obama introduced legislation in Feb. 2007:

S.674
Title: A bill to require accountability and enhanced congressional oversight for personnel performing private security functions under Federal contracts, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack (introduced 2/16/2007) Cosponsors (4)
Related Bills: H.R.369, H.R.2740
Latest Major Action: 2/16/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services.SUMMARY AS OF:
2/16/2007--Introduced.

Transparency and Accountability in Military and Security Contracting Act of 2007 - Requires reports to Congress by specified federal officials on information with respect to federal military and security contracts being performed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Requires a separate report from the Secretary of Defense on Department of Defense (DOD) strategy and activities with respect to contractors and subcontractors in support of DOD missions in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Global War on Terror.

Requires each contract, subcontract, or task order awarded or issued by a federal agency that includes private security functions (covered contract) to require the contractor to provide to the agency contracting officer specified information, including the number of persons to perform the security functions and the hiring and training process for such employees. Requires agency oversight in the performance of the covered contract.

Directs the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) to issue rules of engagement regarding the circumstances under which force may be used by contractor personnel performing private security functions within the area covered by a contingency operation, and the types of force authorized. Provides for: (1) hiring, training, and equipment standards relating to private security contractors; and (2) coordination and communication between U.S. Armed Forces and contractor personnel.

Provides for the legal status of contractor personnel with respect to investigations and prosecution of abuses by private security contractors.

Requires the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), for each theater of operations established in connection with a contingency operation in which contract personnel are carrying out work under a covered contract, to establish a Theater Investigative Unit to investigate allegations of contractor personnel criminal misconduct.

That's leadership

[rodeodance]

66. Because this bill is STRONGER and more inclusive. Read them both.

[ProSense]

72. She signed on to a four-month old bill. Obama legislation is stronger and was introduce a year ago.

That's all.

[rodeodance]

76. Either you have not read both bills or your reading comprehension skills need some work.

[rodeodance]

62. k

[Freida5]

68. Isn't Blackwater based in Illinois. Probably a BO contributor

[Inuca]

73. What BS!!! n/t

[aasleka]

82. Blackwater is NC based, Liddy Dole's backyard

[rodeodance]

89. Thanks, i did not know that---but i hear he wants to open another spot in CA with

Duncan hunters help.

i have not kept up on the status of that one although i know there is a lot of opposition to it (training camp)

[Freida5]

110. Mailing address is Illinois

[sueragingroz]

78. this makes so much sense

Everyone calls Hillary the Queen of the MIC... yet the MIC, via news outlets like MSNBC are in the process of "taking her out"...

And this is why. She will pull out the Halliburtons and the Blackwaters... where all the real money is being made.

Barack will only pull out the soldiers. This way he gets to have it both ways. He gets to say "i pulled everyone out" and he gives the MIC what they want - more work for the contractors.

[rodeodance]

79. media outlets are huge corportions--as are the Halliburtons and the Blackwaters...

[dkf]

84. Obama's bill on contracting is the core of the latest reforms in the Defense Authorization Act.

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/02/just-as-blackwa.html

"I’m not sure Hillary’s campaign will get much traction on it, however. At the end of the day, it’s only a five sentence statement of intent, coming after her being 8 years on the Armed Services Committee, a full year after Obama issues his bill on contracting, 7 months after the Blackwater shootings, and 6 months after Obama’s bill becomes the core of much of the latest round of reforms in the Defense Authorization act. Maybe she’s trying to get some pop by doing this 5 days before the OH and TX primaries. But, if a back and forth happens on the topic of private military contracting, it is going to be very hard for her to argue any depth on the issue and, even more so, avoid the political timing label. Obama just has to point to his track record on the issue and say, “Why did you just suddenly discover this issue now 5 days before the votes, and, more importantly, where have you been for the last years?” Indeed, if you check his campaign’s defense policy factsheet that they issued to public in November 07, before he catches fire in the Iowa primary, he lays out some pretty extensive policies on reforming contracting. But what is notable is the into to that section. It reads:

“Almost every candidate running for president has talked about this issue to the press. Barack Obama has actually taken action, and did so some eight months before the recent tragedy in Baghdad involving Blackwater shootings of civilians. It is yet another demonstration of his foresight and judgment on the issues that matter, rather than waiting for the polls to determine his position after the fact.”

Ouch. Again, that sentence, which now reads pretty telling, is from back in November."

HA!!! Take that Hillary.

[rodeodance]

87. Read them did by side please. Clintons sponsored one is more inclusive and strong

[dkf]

90. But based on unreal expectations...Get REAL Hillary.

I do find this situation ironic. Looks like Obama is the realist and Hillary is in fantasyland.

[rodeodance]

95. Hillary is pragmatic.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

99. Obama "told me that if elected Obama will not "rule out" using companies like Blackwater "..........

A senior foreign policy adviser to leading Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama told me that if elected Obama will not "rule out" using private security companies like Blackwater Worldwide in Iraq. The adviser also said that Obama does not plan to sign on to legislation that seeks to ban the use of these forces in US war zones by January 2009, when a new President will be sworn in. Obama's campaign says that instead he will focus on bringing accountability to these forces while increasing funding for the State Department's Bureau of Diplomatic Security, the agency that employs Blackwater and other private security contractors.

Obama's broader Iraq withdrawal plan provides for some US troops to remain in Iraq--how many his advisers won't say. But it's clear that Obama's "follow-on force" will include a robust security force to protect US personnel in Iraq, US trainers (who would also require security) for Iraqi forces and military units to "strike at Al Qaeda"--all very broad swaths of the occupation.

[Bluerthanblue]

91. banning private contractors would mean an immediate draft-

you ready for that?

peace~

[rodeodance]

94. stop with the fear mongoolllllllinnnnnng

[ElsewheresDaughter]

98. we're gooing to start bringing the troops home in 60 days

[rodeodance]

103. WITH SAFTY AS A HIGH PRIORITY

[claire_m]

96. Good post.

n/t

[rodeodance]

100. k

[jlake]

102. K&R

[candice]

106. Rodeo Dance...thanks for this report! Very thorough.