Hillary's vote to give Bush the Iraq invasion go ahead

[SHRED]

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When it all filters out and all the pundits detail every aspect of this Democratic primary, do you think that Hillary being surpassed by Obama boils down to the fact that she supported Bush in his desire to use military force against Iraq?

I think it is a MAJOR factor why she isn't walking away with this thing.
Plus Obama's fantastic oratory skills of course.

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[mdmc]

1. no

its the hot newbie versus the broken oldie.
She wishes it was simple triangulation. But Obama is just as triangulated as she is.
People...like him.

[speedoo]

2. It's not only her vote that decided it for me.

It was the fact that she has never, until this last debate, expressed any doubt at all in her vote, and repeatedly lied (IMO) about her reasons for that vote. Plus, the near certainty that it was a political calculation on her part... that is unforgivable as far as this veteran is concerned.

I supported Kerry, could have supported Edwards or Biden or Dodd. All of whom voted the same way Clinton did. But their conduct post vote was very different.

[gerrilea]

3. It's the MSM, not anything else, not Obama's oratory abilities.

She's belittled for almost 2 months now...

[SHRED]

4. What about this last debate and...

...her whining about "always getting the first question".

Holy crap that was a bonehead move.
That did not look "Presidential" whatsoever.


----

[gerrilea]

8. that's your opinion, she was right to point it out, the MSM knows

Obama can't answer international questions first he'd give a bad answer, let Hillary answer first, as usual and he agreed with her all the time...she gave him the answers and the MSM knew it...not looking presidential was Obama not having his own answers

[Carolina]

10. spare me, the MSM

had nearly crowned her the anointed one, HRC the inevitable.

HRC is where she is:
- because she lost repeatedly starting in SC
- because her campaign sucks (birds of a feather Penn, Wolfson, Clinton)
- because she believed in her own inevitability
- because she doesn't have 35 years experience ON HER OWN
- because the people noticed that IWR vote
- because she can get ridiculously outraged about a campaign ad but never showed that level of outrage about Bush during her past 7 years in the Senate
- because she doesn't connect with people in the way that Obama can (diminish his skills all you want)

[papau]

5. Obama supporter lies and says 2002 vote was for invasion to occur - typical - after UN promise

was obtained the vote was to permit if no other option

Hard to see the difference right - but the Constitution says the President is always permitted - indeed see the newspaper stories of the time - this was an attempt to say the Congress was still involved in war and to get the go to the UN deal.

But smear is the Obama game when it comes to a women in authority that on merit would be a better candidate.

[SHRED]

6. Since common folk like us...

...and many in the House and Senate knew that Bush would view this as a green light....why didn't Hillary?


---

[Milo_Bloom]

13. No lie.. it was a vote for war.

Try reading the document next time.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

7. Her vote gives him the moral high ground to deflect any attacks she throws at him

Good judgment is more important than experience (not that she has any more experience than him). It's one factor, maybe even the main factor, but there are others.

[Carolina]

9. A huge reason

and the fact that through her campaign she has demonstrated that she is not only not ready on day one but that she is a graceless loser.

I will never forgot how my estimation of Dan Quayle went up when I listened to his concession statemnt in 1992. But HRC and her cohorts diminish Obama's primary, and especially caucus, victories, and are not even gracious about losing. They don't concede and yet on primary night expect the media to focus on HRC moving on to the next venue to give another stump speech...

I was an ardent Clinton supporter throughout the 90s but now can't stand either one.

[Milo_Bloom]

11. This goes in the "DUH" category.

If Clinton had voted against the war, like the majority of Democratic senators, she would have had the nomination wrapped up long ago.

However, she chose politics over principles and voted to send people to their death so she could look "strong" and now she is paying the price for that cowardice.

[Upton]

12. Without a doubt

it's one of the main reasons I can never support Hillary Clinton. She had a chance to stand up for what is right and she failed us all.

[sloppyjoe25s]

14. It is part of the larger pattern

The IWR vote is just the most despicable example. But the real issue with Mrs Clinton is the
larger pattern of being willing to do anything, ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING, to "position" "adjust" "craft" her
own storyline - to take her to the place she deemed to be her "absolute right", namely the White House. Yes the IWR vote is an
extreme failing. One she wishes now (and openly said in the debate) she could "recalculate".

But on vote after vote, issue after issue, job after job, she has shown she is a political CRAY COMPUTER.

IWR, "No Credit Card Company Left Behind", the Levin Ammendment, voting to block Obama's co-sponsorship of fixes to make the patriot act much more protective of civil rights, Cluster Bombs, her refusing to release her tax returns, her dismal failure to
do anything but tow the company line on the board of WalMart, her flip flopping on NAFTA

There are no principles. There are no beliefs. There are no fundamentals. There is ONLY calculation.

Even her claim to care so much about healthcare belies the fact that she consciously conducted perhaps the most
seriously flawed - and personally egotistical - indeed blatantly STUPID methodology in 1993. If she had really deeply
held principles and REAL care about the issue - she would have consulted, involved, reached out to people who could have helped
her. Instead she saw the chance to "make a name" for herself - and her hubris and lust for recognition destroyed the
effort - setting America back a quarter century on the issue.

EVERY single issue she now talks about is expertly poll tested, calculated, analyzed, scrubbed, and sloganized.

Don't get me wrong. She is smart. Very smart, but...

...there is simply nothing - repeat nothing - she believes in her heart - except that she is entitled to
be president of the United States of America.

Barack by contrast always has been extremely genuine - and very connected to real people. People instantly see this, and great substance in him. Which is why all attempts to paint him as a "novice" and a "cult fad" have had zero impact.

He is humble - he told his entire campaign from Day 1 - that it was "An Improbably Journey" -- he warned supporters throughout
2007 that his "novelty would wear off". He speaks of himself with a candor and openness that is almost revolutionary in American Politics. In the words of today's youth he is:

"keepin it real" -- GUESS WHAT --- people actually CAN see genuineness. It is just part of human nature.
We can tell a sincere person when we see one.

He has fought for civil liberties consistently - he does not back away from unpopular positions. He is a Democrat who can actually speak to people about personal responsibility and they listen. He has a stellar record of accomplishment throughout his career - and is a man of intellect and principle.

Don't get me wrong - Mrs. Clinton is smart. She and her husband are smarter than hell.

But she is totally devoid of genuine principle. Even SCHIP - her great "fall back" "accomplishment" - for which she claims huge credit - was in fact Ted Kennedy's legislation that she clung on to like a life-raft after she personally destroyed universal Health Care with her incompetence and arrogance. She did not craft the program, she did not even talk about the idea - until she failed on her own. She then did everything she could in short order to jump on the "SCHIP bandwagon" - so her name would be connected to it in some way. But she was not a legislator at the time - and played a minor role in the passage of the law.

If you listen to her today - you would think she had come up with SCHIP herself, and was deeply personally responsible for it. Well that is political calculation - it is what she knows best.

Her incompetence and arrogance has been manifest in this campaign in spades. At every turn she has proven herself a weaker leader, a poorer executive, a ridiculous characature of a commader in chief, and again, dismally lacking in character or principles.

I would LOVE TO HAVE a woman as president. But Mrs. Hillary Rodham Clinton is a woman devoid of any moral fiber - and is totally and utterly unqualified to be president of the United States.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

15. Who did you vote for in 04?