"Obama's lack of Subcommittee oversight hearings" controversy debunked!!!

[mckeown1128]

OLBERMANN: Obama‘s lack of hearings now picked in the RNC news release but none of his critics mentioning that while Obama‘s Foreign Relations Subcommittee deals with the U.S. relations with NATO, a different Foreign Relations Subcommittee chaired by John Kerry has jurisdiction over Afghanistan. And the full Foreign Relations Committee was the one that held several hearings on the military efforts there. The former chairman of that committee, Republican Dick Lugar, already on record saying, he wanted Obama on the committee after hearing him discuss nuclear proliferation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23408579/


Ohh... SNAP!!! Clinton's supporters can lie through their teeth(just as the RNC seems to be getting ready to do on this topic.) There you go. Obama supporters please Kick and Rec this so more can see. Thank You!

[flpoljunkie]

1. Thanks for posting this. Unsurprisingly, Hillary has not stopped repeating the lie though.

[papau]

2. Another reason to stop watching KO - Lack of hearings not disputed but GOP like Obama

[mckeown1128]

3. What? Your post doesn't even make sense.

You have two verbs in you second sentence.

[helderheid]

14. need more coffee?

:)

[K Gardner]

4. Yeah.. I heard that last week. Strangely enough, the LIE kept being repeated. People in Ohio,

struggling for jobs, aren't really looking at subcomittee hearings in DC.

[rug]

5. So he didn't do it because Kerry was supposed to?

Sounds like a dialog from kids in the back seat of the car.

[mckeown1128]

8. Except Kerry and Obama have rules they have to follow in

the Senate. It was Kerry's job. Why would Obama do it? That is the reason they appoint different senators to different committees. So when you take that into accounts sounds like senators doing their job... not kids in the back seat of the car.

[bigtree]

10. What did Obama actually do in relation to those issues of Afghanistan and al-Qaeda?

. . . during his term in the Senate? Is there ANY record of any personal involvement by Sen. Obama on these issues? Any transcript?

[rug]

11. Not my job. Nice answer.

If the work is important, Obama as chair can easily ask his endorser to get the work done or he can bring the matter before the full committee.

Turf war jurisdiction sounds like old politics.

[mckeown1128]

35. So, now Obama is responsible for what hearings other

senator's hold. Under that logic. Why didn't Hillary ask Kerry to hold that hearing? Wow, Hillary must not care about Afghanistan.

[rug]

13. dupe

[Marie26]

34. Obama's sub. has juris. over NATO. nt

[bigtree]

41. What did he actually DO in relation to those issues under his jurisdiction related to Afghanistan?

Related to NATO? Where did he directly impact with those deliberations, hearings, and other efforts?

[Marie26]

44. Since 2007 - probably nothing.

He's been campaigning for half of his time in the Senate.

[thevoiceofreason]

6. K&R

[bigtree]

7. that statement from Olbermann still doesn't show any PERSONAL involvement by Obama in these issues

That's the nub of the question about his committee. Here he is chairman of this committee and there's nothing he or his supporters have been able to produce which shows ANY personal involvement during Sen. Obama's term in the Senate, much less interest, in the issues of Afghanistan and al-Qaeda he said were so important in the debate. Whatever Kerry is doing in that committee isn't a substitute for Obama's conduct.

Is Obama involved in the committee work of Kerry, Biden, in any significant way? Is there a record of that involvement?

[mckeown1128]

16. He has spent his Senate time accomplishing many different things.

A European subcommittee isn't exactly demanding much time in the senate. What's next, are you guys going to attack Obama for failing to hold any French relations oversight hearings? Obama has shown plenty of PERSONAL involvement in his job.

[bigtree]

22. What did he personally do on the issue of Afghanistan that he raised in the debate?

What has he done on the issues surrounding that occupation, during his term in the Senate?

[Inuca]

18. Please, try to use common sense and to be fair

Of course, Kerry dealing with Afghanistan issues in his committee + the full committee hearing, given the importance of the subject, imply that the subcommittee that Obama was chairing had no reason to get involved (apart from the fact that Afghanistan is not exactly in Europe, which makes the whole argument ridiculous; and please do not reply about NATO being associated with Europe, NATO issues should be discussed in the armed services committee, or at least that's what simple logic would suggest). The whole thing is nothing but a tempest in a teapot, and a cheap argument meant to score cheap political points.

Also: it is a well known fact that Senators that campaign for the presidency are less involved in their "day job" while they campaign. You may not like it, I may not like it (I don't), but that's the way it is, and that's the way it will continue to be until some very fundamental rules of the political game are changed. If you have enough time on your hands, go and research how many committee meetings and such Clinton and Obama have participated in since early 2007. I am sure the difference will be statistically insignificant.

[bigtree]

20. I want to know what Obama did, not Kerry.

[Inuca]

29. Sorry, but you sound like a broken record

You want to know --> go and find out! You completely dismiss the fact that different senators have different responsibilities and areas of expertise. Was Obama as deeply involved in these issues as Kerry, Biden, and on the other side Hagel and probably Lugar? I guess not. SHould he have been and artificially push himself to the forefront? No. It would have been unseemly, inconsiderate, and rang of cheap political maneuvering. Not exactly unheard of, but not an admirable thing nevertheless.

[bigtree]

36. I haven't found any personal involvement by Obama on these issues

maybe you have some record of that.

[Inuca]

47. Last time I heard

he refused to have a date with one of Karzai's daughter (I am sure he must have at least one daughter). So yes, Obama clearly refuses to have any PERSONAL involvement with these issues. Do you have a satisfactory answer now?

[bigtree]

50. that's pathetic. Even more pathetic to bandy around the fact that Kerry is doing the work, not Obama

and you, with a joke. Do you think that dodging these questions with humor will work in a general election?

[Inuca]

56. I tried to answer rationally

using facts and common sense. It did not work, hence the silly joke. End of story.

[From The Left]

9. A troubling pattern of lies from Hillary's supporters

Very troubling

[bigtree]

17. a troubling pattern of missing the point.

Who cares if someone else is doing the work on these issues? What is Sen. Obama's personal involvement in the Senate during his term in those deliberations, hearings, and other legislative efforts regarding Afghanistan, NATO, al-Qaeda? I don't care that someone is able to point to some reason Sen. Clinton's charge may not have merit. I want to know WHERE Obama has acted on these issues during his term.

That's the only reason the charge was made, to point up the lack of visible involvement in the issues he (correctly) said in the debate that we've been distracted from by involvement in Iraq. The retort from Clinton was, well, what have you personally done to pursue those concerns while you had responsibility and opportunity. Specifically, what did he do about those concerns, even last year? Is there ANY record of Obama's personal involvement with ANY committee which dealt with these issues?

[From The Left]

23. Let's Visit Hillary's Involvement While In the Senate

1. she voted for the Iraq war
2. she voted for the USA Patriot Act
3. she voted to reauthorize the USA Patriot
4. she voted to make flag burning a crime

Talk about selective memory.

[bigtree]

26. I have some record of her own involvement in these issues

. . .she's not chairman, but, still . . .


Sen. Clinton 2007 ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE HEARINGS
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/sasc

Senator Clinton Questions General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker on Iraq at Senate Armed Services Committee Hearing - September 11, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=282410&&

Senator Clinton Questions General James Jones (Ret.) on the Findings of the Iraqi Security Forces Independent Assessment Commission - September 6, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=281941&&

Nominee for Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Commits to Senator Clinton to Brief Congress on Redeployment Planning - July 31, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=279055&&

Senate Armed Services Committee Approves Clinton Measures to Help Wounded Servicemembers - June 14, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=277007&&

Senator Clinton Questions Lieutenant General Douglas Lute at Senate Armed Services Committee Confirmation Hearing - June 7, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=275680&&

Senator Clinton Questions U.S. Central Commander Admiral William Fallon at Senate Armed Services Committee Hearing - May 3, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=273625&&

Senator Clinton Calls for Closure of Guantanamo Bay Detention Center - April 26, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=273211&&

Clinton Presses Bush Pentagon on Contracting Abuses in Iraq - April 19, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=272692&&

Remarks of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at Senate Armed Services Committee Hearing on State of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps - April 17, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=272681&&

Clinton Continues to Fight for Our Troops & Veterans; Questions Pentagon and Veterans Affairs Officials About Treatment of Servicemembers and Veterans at Joint Armed Services-Veteran Affairs Committee Hearing - April 12, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=272340&&

Senator Clinton Questions Air Force Leaders Over CSAR-X Contract Process - March 20, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=271008&&

Senator Clinton Questions Army Generals About Living Conditions and Administration of Outpatients at Walter Reed Army Medical Center - March 6, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=270250&&

Senator Clinton Questions Administration and Military Officials About U.S. Policy in Afghanistan - March 1, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=269992&&

Senator Clinton Questions Vice Admiral John M. McConnell, USN (ret), Director of National Intelligence and Lieutenant General Michael Maples, USA, the Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency at a Senate Armed Services Committee Hearing on Worldwide Threats - February 27, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=269792&&

Senator Clinton Raises Iraq and Darfur with Defense Secretary Gates and General Pace, Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff, at a Senate Armed Services Committee Hearing on the Administration's FY 08 Department of Defense Budget Request - February 6, 2007
http://www.clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=268629&&

Senator Clinton Questions General George Casey Jr. on His Nomination to be United States Army Chief of Staff - February 1, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=268451&&

Senator Clinton Questions Admiral William J. Fallon, Nominee for Commander, United States Central Command - January 30, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=268177&&

Senator Clinton Questions Defense Secretary William Perry, Ambassador Dennis Ross, and General Jack Keane on Iraq Strategy - January 25, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=268038&&

Senator Clinton Questions General David Petraeus at Senate Armed Services Committee Hearing - January 23, 2007
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=267862&&

http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/sasc

[Zachstar]

27. Where is your denial bad Clinton supporters!?

[Yossariant]

12. A disturbing pattern from Obama.

Very disturbing.

[MethuenProgressive]

15. OP completely DEBUNKED by Top Political website ruling!!!

PoliticFact rules Clinton charge TRUE


"He (Obama) chairs the subcommittee on Europe. ... He's held not one substantive hearing to do oversight."
Hillary Clinton on Tuesday, February 26th, 2008 in a debate in Cleveland

Dormant while Obama campaigns

In one of the more pointed barbs in a Feb. 26, 2008, debate, Sen. Hillary Clinton charged that Sen. Barack Obama has been so busy running for president that he hasn’t done much of anything as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs.

“I also have heard Senator Obama refer continually to Afghanistan, and he references being on the Foreign Relations Committee,” Clinton said. “He chairs the Subcommittee on Europe. It has jurisdiction over NATO. NATO is critical to our mission in Afghanistan. He’s held not one substantive hearing to do oversight, to figure out what we can do to actually have a stronger presence with NATO in Afghanistan."

Obama responded: “Well, first of all, I became chairman of this committee at the beginning of this campaign, at the beginning of 2007. So it is true that we haven’t had oversight hearings on Afghanistan.”

Although Obama acknowledges the point, we sought to confirm what the subcommittee has been doing.

Congressional records show, and spokesmen for several subcommittee members confirm, the subcommittee has not held any policy hearings since Obama was appointed chair in early 2007. The subcommittee’s jurisdiction includes “all matters, policies and problems concerning the continent of Europe, including the European member states of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.”

The chair sets the agenda for a subcommittee and Obama could have asked to hold a hearing on NATO and its role in Afghanistan.

But Clinton’s claim, while technically true, is unfair, said Andrew J. Fischer, a spokesman for Republican Sen. Richard Lugar. Lugar now serves as a minority member of the Foreign Relations Committee, but he was the chair, from 2003 to 2006, when Republicans controlled the Senate. He is the ranking Republican on the committee.

Fischer, who is a minority staff member of the Foreign Relations Committee, said something as major as NATO’s role in Afghanistan would typically be held before the full Foreign Relations Committee, rather than Obama’s European subcommittee.

In fact, the Foreign Relations Committee held a hearing on Afghanistan on Jan. 31, 2008, and NATO was a part of the discussion. Obama attended a Democratic debate in California that day. Clinton is not on the committee.

The Clinton campaign put out a statement reiterating Clinton’s comments to reinforce the theme that Obama is more about talk than action.

“Given the opportunity to take the reins of leadership and shape two critical areas of U.S. foreign policy — Afghanistan and our alliances in Europe — Senator Obama has done next to nothing,” the statement said.

Obama’s campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

So let’s look at Clinton’s statement:

“He chairs the subcommittee on Europe.” Yep.

“It has jurisdiction over NATO.” Yep.

“NATO is critical to our mission in Afghanistan. He’s held not one substantive hearing to do oversight, to figure out what we can do to actually have a stronger presence with NATO in Afghanistan.” Yep.

Some may argue that the issue of NATO’s role in Afghanistan typically and more appropriately would come before the full Foreign Relations Committee. But Clinton is right when she says Obama’s subcommittee has been largely dormant while Obama has campaigned for president. We rate her comment True.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/379/

[mckeown1128]

19. Your facts are right your conclusions are wrong.

I will agree Obama hasn't held one oversight committee hearing on NATO's involvment in Afghanistan.

The reason for that is that those oversight hearings do NOT fall under Obama's committee. So, tell me again what exactly have you debunked, meth.

[Yossariant]

24. So, oversight of NATO does not fall under the oversight of NATO.

:rofl:

[mckeown1128]

38. Obama's committee doesn't cover NATO... sorry to disapoint. nt

[bigtree]

48. So, when he points to his work on the Foreign Relations Committee as proof

of his understanding and experience on the issues of Afghanistan and al-Qaeda, which he raised in the debate, there really is NOTHING he can point to there which he's actually DONE to address those concerns he says he has.

WHERE in the Senate has he been directly involved in ANY of the committee work, hearings, or other efforts related to those issues related to the occupation of Afghanistan and the pursuit of the 9-11 al-Qaeda suspects that he said in the debate he's ready to address as president?

[Yossariant]

59. Of course it does. That's the very ISSUE under discussion.

[chascarrillo]

21. I think PoliticFact just debunked itself.

Clinton's statement says that Obama's subcommittee hasn't done enough to boost Nato's role in Afghanistan.

Obama's subcommittee doesn't cover Nato's role in Afghanistan.

PoliticFact "rules" Clinton's statement "true".

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[MethuenProgressive]

25. PolitiFact has been named the "Best Overall Newspaper Web Site"

Congrats, PolitiFact!

[chascarrillo]

28. That's nice. By who?

[MethuenProgressive]

30. the Newspaper Association of America Digital Edge awards.

Link: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/blog/2008/feb/25/politifact-named-top-news-site/

[chascarrillo]

42. Entries were judged on strategy, creativity, impact in the local market and adaptability...

"Entries were judged on strategy, creativity, impact in the local market and adaptability to other markets."

Not, however, on factuality.

Would you like to address my argument instead of pleading to authority?

[desi]

33. Olbermann drank the Obamanation Kool-Aid

Must be a requirement to continue in the employ of M$NBC.

Yeah let's keep this kicked: Obama responded: “Well, first of all, I became chairman of this committee at the beginning of this campaign, at the beginning of 2007. So it is true that we haven’t had oversight hearings on Afghanistan.”

LIAR: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bIfYkmieurw

[mckeown1128]

46. No one said that Obama answer the debate question well.

He should have pointed out that his committee doesn't cover Afghanistan.

[desi]

54. Hokay...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&um=1&resnum=4&q=senate+subcommittee+responsible+for+NATO+policy+in+Afghanistan.&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web

[Marie26]

31. That's like saying anti-Bush charge debunked by Fox News

Olberman has lost all creditability on this issue - he's used his program to relentlessly attack Clinton & propagandize for Obama. He switches the topic so that Obama supporters can, if they choose to, believe that the allegation is false. But in fact it's true - Obama's subcomm. hasn't held any hearings & his subcommittee deals w/NATO, just as Clinton said. Where's the debunk? Who cares what Kerry has done? The question was about what Obama has done as committee head, and the answer seems to be: not much. It was a good thing for Clinton to raise - one of the few attacks that actually worked.

[Onlooker]

32. Obama screwed up here

His committee didn't meet, and that was wrong. Let's deal with it from an honest point of view, rather than from spin. As Obama himself said,

"I became chairman of this committee at the beginning of this campaign, at the beginning of 2007. So it is true that we haven’t had oversight hearings on Afghanistan."

The lesson to the Obama zealouts is that you can support Obama and still accept that he has made some mistakes. People should look at Obama critically. If you do, chances are you'll still support him. I do.

[mckeown1128]

43. I will admit, he should have held 3 or 4 hearings of his

subcommittee like all the other subcommittee chairmen do. But, the attack was about Afghanistan and his subcommittee doesn't cover Afghanistan. The attacks are dishonest.

[MethuenProgressive]

52. Especially if he's going to highlight it as part of his "experience"

He should at least GO to Europe once as Chairman.

[GoldieAZ49]

37. Obama said he had not held any meetings on Foreign Relations in...was it 18 months?

probably because he was running for POTUS

Didn't he say he was going to improve our Foreign Relationships? But not exactly how, except for doubling foreign aid.

[elixir]

39. First of all, Clinton supporters stated BO didn't chair a meeting - true,..

also, that his committee is responsible for the relationship w/ NATO - true. The point is NATO is crucial to improving the situation in Afghanistan and Obama was too busy campaigning.

Sorry, no lying through teeth, no lie - Obama not ready on day one.

[mckeown1128]

45. Where do you get that his committee is responsible for

the relationship with NATO. I went to the government website and didn't find any thing suggesting that. Obama is the chair of the European Foreign Relations committee. NATO extends beyond Europe.

[Marie26]

51. link

Salon.com - Obama's European Problem

The senator may have traveled widely, but the critically important subcommittee on Europe has languished under his leadership.

"...Should Obama wonder whether he ought to have bothered with his subcommittee, he could ask his friendly rival Joe Biden, D-Del., who chaired the Europe subcommittee for many years during the Cold War. Biden effectively exploited the chairmanship to transform himself from a junior member into one of the Senate's most knowledgeable experts on arms control, nuclear weapons, European attitudes toward America and the Soviet Union, the European Union's policies, and the role of NATO, which also comes under the subcommittee's mandate. As a result, Biden starred in Senate hearings on the SALT II arms treaties and eventually established himself as a leading national voice on foreign policy.

"I wouldn't call it a neglect of duty but a missed opportunity to explore issues that will be of fundamental importance to the next administration," says ambassador John Ritch, who served for two decades as the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's senior staffer on European affairs and East-West relations, before going on to represent the Clinton administration at the United Nations organizations in Vienna.

Ritch points out that as subcommittee chair, Obama could have examined a wide variety of urgent matters, from the role of NATO in Afghanistan and Iraq to European energy policy and European responses to climate change -- and of course, the undermining of the foundations of the Atlantic alliance by the Bush administration. There is, indeed, almost no issue of current global interest that would have fallen outside the subcommittee's purview."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2007/12/29/obama_europe/

[MethuenProgressive]

53. Thanks, Marie!

[Marie26]

55. My pleasure. :) nt

[bigtree]

57. One of the most important issues right now is whether Europe is going to provide more troops

for NATO in Afghanistan.

Thanks for that link!

[HooptieWagon]

60. While european nations are members of NATO,

it doesn't follow that oversight of NATO falls under Obama's committee. Relations with european nations are pretty good, outside of *'s occasional diplomatic gaffes ( like groping German Chancellor Merkle), so why are regular committee meetings necessary? The hillbot's "logic" is circular, and makes no sense. It's like saying the Transportation Subcommittee covers Interstate Highways, and illegal aliens travel on Interstate highways, therefore the Transportation Subcommittee is responsible for illegal aliens. WTF????

[Yossariant]

61. Put down the koolaid for a sec. His committee actually and specifically covers NATO.

NATO. NATO. NATO.

[desi]

40. Kicked!!!

For the Empty Suit....

[MethuenProgressive]

49. !

:rofl:

[desi]

58. The "debunking" done been debunked...

Thank YOU MP...:toast: Sad to see Keith join the Tweety, Timmy, Brian Williams Hate Hillary Contingent.

Oh KICK!!!!:kick: