If this isn't an admission of a mistake....

[hiaasenrocks]

CLINTON: Well, obviously, I've said many times that, although my vote on the 2002 authorization regarding Iraq was a sincere vote, I would not have voted that way again.

...

RUSSERT: But to be clear, you'd like to have your vote back?

CLINTON: Absolutely. I've said that many times.

________________________________
(Cleveland debate - February 26, 2008)

http://thejournal.epluribusmedia.net/index.php/state-news/ohio-news/34-ohio-news/58-cleveland-debate

Please give me one example, from any democratic body, in any country, in the history of the world, where someone said they'd like to have their vote back because they thought they had it right the first time. Or, if you'd like, give me an example from everyday life where you or someone you know said, "I'd like to have that decision back," but you still thought you had it right the first time.

[MethuenProgressive]

1. She's said that many times, but the Obamas still sell the lie.

[Cornus]

5. What lie?

She has been unable to say that she was wrong and offer an apology. If she had done that I'd have a lot more respect for her.

[hiaasenrocks]

7. LOL

First, an apology wouldn't make a bit of difference. That's just feel-good nonsense. (Maybe Obamaniacs prefer the emotional over the rational.)

Secondly, if she's not saying it was a mistake, or that she was wrong, why would she say she wanted it back?

[RiverStone]

6. 4 words...

"I made a mistake"

If Hillary wanted to end this endless spectacle, she could have said those 4 simple words a long time ago --- maybe even about the time John Edwards said them.

This is not rocket science - any 3rd grader knows there is no substitute for saying "I made a mistake."

[hiaasenrocks]

8. Right.

Because people frequently want to take back decisions they made that they think were correct.

Right?

[RiverStone]

17. Weird...

As a parent, when I knew one of my kiddos made a mistake - I knew (as did they) what I expected from them by way of an admission and/or apology.

Saying "If I could take back spilling grape juice all over the carpet and blaming it on my brother - I would" is NOT gonna cut it.

"I'M SORRY DAD, I MADE A MISTAKE - IT WAS WRONG TO LIE". That's what I have raised my kids to say - to take responsibility. We wall make mistakes, but only some are willing to take responsibility for them.

These endless rationalizations of something so simple is crazy....:silly:

[hiaasenrocks]

20. That is weird.

Because dealing with your kids is a personal relationship. Politics is something different. If she still has a chance at winning the nomination -- and she does, albeit not a great one -- she can't put herself in a box now and try to get out of it when she faces McCain in a debate.

Somehow I don't think your kids are facing the same decision.

I'd still like to know why you think she'd take back a vote that she doesn't think was a mistake or wrong in any fashion.

[RiverStone]

30. People prefer she not mince words...

Granted, saying what she did is better then nothing - to "take back a vote" tells me she is not happy with it or the resulting clusterfuck as a result of it.

The real irony hiaasenrocks, is now your suggesting she not say (those 4 words) for strategical reasons should she be debating McCain - but ya know, she would win a lot MORE VOTES if she had just admitted it - a long time ago.

So I'll ask you, how can you believe NOT saying the 4 words is better than saying them? When saying I MADE A MISTAKE would have won her more support?

[hiaasenrocks]

33. Typical.

Won't answer a question, but demands answers to questions.

[RiverStone]

40. I did answer

ANSWER: Granted, saying what she did is better then nothing - to "take back a vote" tells me she is not happy with it or the resulting clusterfuck as a result of it.

And to add more: Taking BACK a vote does not tell me it was wrong - I'm still waiting for Hillary to tell us it was wrong. If it was a mistake - why not just say it? This is not words games - just admit it Hillary!

Now will you answer --- Why do you think NOT saying "I made a mistake" is better then saying it when so by doing so she gets lots more support?

[dansolo]

2. Notice how she doesn't think she was mistaken at the time

She still considers her vote sincere -- she isn't claiming her vote was wrong. This is the sort of non-apology that the RW is so good at. She only wants the vote back because it is now hurting her politically.

[hiaasenrocks]

4. So she wants the vote back because it was right?

:shrug:

[Cornus]

3. One of the many reasons why she didn't get my vote in the primary - nt

[polichick]

9. She's said it many times?? Maybe to her bathroom mirror...

But she sure hasn't said it to us ~ and that still falls quite a bit short of the apology Americans and Iraqis deserve to hear.

[hiaasenrocks]

11. Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that she says she's sorry.

Then what? What changes?

[polichick]

13. More people might be able to trust and respect her. nt

[hiaasenrocks]

15. Looks like Barack already does.

Or DID, before he started running for President.

"I think what people might point to is our different assessments of the war in Iraq, although I’m always careful to say that I was not in the Senate, so perhaps the reason I thought it was such a bad idea was that I didn’t have the benefit of U.S. intelligence. And, for those who did, it might have led to a different set of choices. So that might be something that sort of is obvious. But, again, we were in different circumstances at that time: I was running for the U.S. Senate, she had to take a vote, and casting votes is always a difficult test."

Don't you like the part where he says "although I'm always careful to say that I was not in the Senate"? Hmmm. Doesn't seem like that's true anymore. Oh well.

But anyway, Barack understood back in 2006. Maybe that would help people be able to trust and respect her.

[polichick]

18. Well, long before Barack was on the stage...

I threw the sofa pillows at the TV when Hillary spoke in favor of that vote on the Senate floor ~ and, though I eventually forgave her for it, she lost me when she voted in the same bone-headed way on Iran.

[hiaasenrocks]

23. Maybe she should have just voted "present."

That makes the "Yes We Can" motivational speeches much easier. And you can change your story over and over, like Barack. Look, I'm not doubting that he's running a slicker campaign.

[Arkansas Granny]

34. If Hillary were to make a statement today that she was sorry

for that vote there would be a loud cry that she had only done so to get support. She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.

[polichick]

42. She is damned, but by her own faulty judgment...

There's a lot to admire about Hillary, but I don't know how she expected to run successfully for president without owning up to that awful mistake ~ and I agree that it's too late now since it would seem that she's only doing it to get support.

Honestly, I don't know if she really thinks it was a mistake, given her recent vote on Iran.

[Straight Shooter]

39. Nothing will change if she apologizes. They'll accuse her of pandering.

John Edwards was damn near crucified for admitting mistakes. A lot of DU'ers held him in contempt, said he wasn't "sincere" enough. Even Feingold trash-mouthed him severely.

Hillary could crawl on broken glass and tattoo "Mea Culpa" on her forehead and it would change nothing. Obama supporters are no different than the right wing when it comes to creating a scapegoat pinata that they can blindly beat on forever.

[DearAbby]

10. Remember Happy Days and how the FONZ

could never say he was wrong? Hillary has the same problem. She was right BOTH times. It was short of an apology, because she will not admit she was wrong. Must have read somewhere, or learned it from the GOP...never admit you were wrong, it shows weakness. :shrug:

[hiaasenrocks]

12. Yeah. She wants the vote back because she thinks it was the right vote.

Hmmm.

[DearAbby]

21. That is not what she said.....

she has never said four simple words...."I MADE A MISTAKE", or three....short and sweet - "I WAS WRONG"

[hiaasenrocks]

25. OK. So you think she'd like to have it back because she thinks it was right?

Just for the record. I'd like to know.

[DearAbby]

32. did you see

anywhere in this statement she was wrong, or the word mistake:

CLINTON: Well, obviously, I've said many times that, although my vote on the 2002 authorization regarding Iraq was a sincere vote, I would not have voted that way again.

Somewhere between "..the 2002 authorization regarding Iraq was a sincere vote, oh about here would have been good place I would not have voted that way again."

[hiaasenrocks]

35. No.

But I guess we're at an impasse here, because, for some reason, we're supposed to believe that you're correct in your assessment that people frequently like to take back their decisions because they think the decision was correct.

Makes a lot of sense.

[DearAbby]

41. when I make a wrong decision

and by that decision hurts many people, I admit it, I apologize. There are some out here who have lost family members in this damned war. Ask people like Cindy Sheehan, is this an apology you can accept?

It takes strength of character to admit you were wrong, and you are truly sorry for the results of your mistake. It wont change anything. Those killed in this war, wont come back. But it is a balm, that could help heal.

It matters more to her to appear strong, never wrong. I guess this will be the closest to an admission. But it falls short for me.

[Johnny__Motown]

14. When did she ever say that before? Never. even when she finally tells the truth she lies too

[hiaasenrocks]

16. I know I've heard her say it in some of her stump speeches.

And I think she said it in one of the previous debates. Not sure about that, but I do know she's said it on the campaign trail.

[Johnny__Motown]

24. Watch Russert's show this week. He talks about her never "Breaking that glass ceiling" before

I can't sit through more than a few minutes of here speeches so I could have easily missed something. BUT all reports are that she has never gone that far before. It was always "If I knew then what I know now" or something along that lines.

Actually taking it back is closer to saying the word "Wrong" (Not that she will ever do that) than she has ever come before. I guess the focus groups are getting through to her.



If I am wrong I will apologize but I have not seen any quote that has her wishing she could take back her vote.

[cali]

19. It wouldn't make a whit of difference to me whatever she said

Edwards apology didn't negate his vote and neither would Clinton's.

[hiaasenrocks]

26. The guy in your sig disagreed....

before he was running for President. Oh well.

"I think what people might point to is our different assessments of the war in Iraq, although I’m always careful to say that I was not in the Senate, so perhaps the reason I thought it was such a bad idea was that I didn’t have the benefit of U.S. intelligence. And, for those who did, it might have led to a different set of choices. So that might be something that sort of is obvious. But, again, we were in different circumstances at that time: I was running for the U.S. Senate, she had to take a vote, and casting votes is always a difficult test." Obama in The New Yorker mag

[Auntie Bush]

44. Yeah, It's too difficult for him to cast a vote. That's why he votes "Present" so often.

Is that the kind of president we want? Not I!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

22. Obama's record is even less defensible..He was against it ONLY until he had a Senate vote on it....!

Then he voted for each and every pro-war appropriation

[hiaasenrocks]

27. He's flipped and flopped all over the place.

Maybe he's too busy planning that bombing of Pakistan.

[zabet]

29. Yep and couldn't be bothered to show up for the Kyl-liebermann vote.

[suston96]

28. A mistake? Sure it was a mistake. But not why you think it was a mistake....

The mistake was that the Congress believed in the words and facts presented by the President claiming proof of WMD in Iraq.

The mistake was in believing in the system of checks and balances between the branches of government which the Founders had established with the hope that such treachery on the part of the Executive would never succeed.

The mistake was reliance on the Constitution to protect the American people from the treachery of its elected leaders.

A mistake that has happened before and will happen again unless that Constitution is changed so that lying and treasonous elected leaders can be removed easily and quickly.

Impeachment? Fuggedaboutit!

[Mezzo]

31. Obama was not always against the war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN30M6StFfk

[bigbrother05]

36. This is really a mute point

If Clinton were in the lead, we would not even be discussing this, so this he said she said, is pointless, weak argument

[Frumious B]

37. There's still too much wiggle room there for me.

Does she regret her vote because the war hasn't turned out the way she thought it was supposed to turn out or does she regret it because she now realizes that going to war in Iraq was simply the wrong thing to do, period?

[RC]

38. She wants her vote back because it is

helping to destroy her run for the presidency. Until that was evident, Hillary was NOT against the war.

[polichick]

43. Sadly, I think that is probably the truth - given her vote on Iran. nt