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If the Clintons are afraid to honestly present their healthcare plan to a Dem audience, why should

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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:22 PM
Original message
If the Clintons are afraid to honestly present their healthcare plan to a Dem audience, why should
we think they have any chance of ever getting it passed?

Bill Clinton, speaking at Texas A&M University this afternoon, said that everybody needs to be in the plan because it's the only way to control costs. He said this is done by having a larger number of people in the plan. But what he was afraid to say, and is rarely mentioned by the Clinton campaign, is that costs are kept down by requiring low-risk young people to subsidize high-risk people. These low-risk people must be required to pay for something that is a bad deal for them financially. This may be a good argument, but the Clintons are afraid to make it.

Yesterday in Fort Worth, Hillary deliberately misled the audience about the difference between her plan and Obama's plan. She described her healthcare plan as providing access for everyone to quality, affordable, healthcare insurance. She then said Obama's plan would leave millions of people out.

What she described as her plan, however, is exactly Obama's plan--the key word is "access." By saying her plan allows access to all, she's implying the millions left out by Obama will be because he will deny them access, rather than these people will voluntarily choose to decline healthcare insurance.

She never used the word "mandate" to describe her plan, and with very good reason. A lot of people won't like it. So she's decided to confuse people instead. She called Obama's plan her plan, and misled people to believe that Obama's will not allow access to all.

Millions will voluntarily choose to go without healthcare insurance under Obama's plan, but they will all have access to it. No one can be denied insurance.

Obama's plan provides access for all. Hillary's plan requires access for all. Why did she not make it clear that under her plan everyone is required by law to purchase healthcare insurance? Why does she refuse to say how she will enforce this requirement? Fines, garnishing wages, jail?

Also, under Hillary's plan there will still be millions without insurance--those who, despite the requirement and the penalties, still choose not to pay for insurance.

If she is afraid to make a clear case for her plan in front of an audience of Dems, how on earth does she think she'll get it passed? She won't get any republicans to support a plan with mandates, and many red-state Dems will not support it, either.

The main philosophical difference between the two plans is universal access vs. mandatory universal access. The Clinton campaign does not want to make that clear.

Teddy Kennedy says he has been trying to get a healthcare plan passed for almost half a century. He's zero for twelve so far. Why is he supporting Obama? Maybe it's because Obama has a lot better chance of passing his plan than Hillary has of passing hers.

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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary: everyone covered. Obama: 15 million are left out
The entire OP is BO BS.
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. If You Repeat A Falsehood Often Enough Does It Somehow Become True?
:eyes:
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The OP certainly is trying to do that.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Which is...?
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Except that Hillary Could Never Get Her Plan Passed and Obama Will
So under her, no plan at all, another failure like HillaryCare!
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Wrong. Everyone has access under both plans, but Hillary's requires it. Approx. 15mil will choose to
not purchase insurance under Obama's plan. Approx. 2mil will choose to not purchase insurance under Hillary's plan, despite the legal requirement to do so. (The numbers are, of course, rough estimates).

And neither plan is universal healthcare--it is universal purchase of healthcare insurance.

If my entire OP is bs, then why did you not address hardly any of it, including the main point that the Clinton campaign is deliberately blurring the nature of their plan?
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Please note: OPer agrees BO leaves 15 million without insurance.
Odd that the OPer left that out of the OP...
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Reading problems? "Millions will voluntarily choose to go without healthcare insurance under Obama's
plan, but they will all have access to it."

The fifteen million number is one of many estimates, as with the two million who choose not to purchase insurance under Hillary's plan.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Do you honestly believe that there is going to be a Healthcare plan?
Of any kind?
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. If they want a shot at re-election, something will be tossed out there.
Passed and signed is a different matter.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. They would lose to the next guy promising a healthcare plan?
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Probably. Or worse.
No election has ever seen this amount of exposure to the h/c issue. Lack of a plan being implemented, dependent upon the "nay" voters and the makeup of the next Congress, would be courting disaster.

On the worse side, people would throw up their hands and elect B-1 Bob prez.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. "costs are kept down by requiring low-risk young people to subsidize high-risk people"
Basically a tax, except the health insurance industry gets a cut.

Take for profits out of the equation, and I wouldn't be so against it.

I still say there is no way it would pass though.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Yep, for-profit healthcare sucks. Obama has said in the past that our current gerryrigged healthcare
system is not how he would design one, but it's what we have to deal with now.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. I honestly think we are closer than we've ever been to getting
SOMETHING passed. Until recently there wasn't really much interest in a HC plan. Most people had ins. through their employer, and those who were complaining were certainly a minority. NOW, the MAJORITY is unhappy, & the employers are unhappy! Costs have spiraled so out of control they are hurting almost everybody but the very wealthy, and even the Gov't recognized that these out of control costs are destroying Medicare/Medicaid and the Vets HC plan.

I honestly think this is the FISRT time the MAJORITY really do want some solution!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Very good post
I don't know why so many people are allowing themselves to be lied to this way. I understand some who only hear a snippet from a speech and just gullibly believe her. But I don't understand others who know better, and repeat this nonsense that she's proposing true universal health care. She isn't. It is simply a mandate to buy insurance without any certainty to the cost.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. "The Clintons" arent running for President
Edited on Sun Mar-02-08 06:00 PM by niceypoo
Just as "The Obamas" arent running for president

You cant seem to agree with yourself just whose plan it is....you call it 'their' plan and you call it 'Hillary's' plan, which is it, or can you just use either when convenient?

One other point, if Ted Kennedy has a 'zero for twelve' record of passing healthcare plans, why would you cite him as the big go-to guy on getting health care plans passed?

Just wondering...
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. It's something they learned from all that RW talk radio they listen to.
:hi:
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
19. I notice that there's nothing but crickets from the Hillary supporters, other than
the usual avoiding of the subject when the subject is healthcare. My OP brought up a number of points about Hillary's healthcare plan, but it seems that, like Hillary herself, the Clinton supporters here at DU want to avoid the subject. Thank you for agreeing with my main point. Not only is Hillary unable to honestly sell her plan to an audience of Dems, she apparently can't even sell it to an audience of her DU supporters.
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