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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:06 AM
Original message
Obama and The NAFTA SHAFTA...The CTV story is TRUE!
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 09:27 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/nafta-shafta.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMpbpov-HcA

March 03, 2008 7:14 AM

The AP's Nedra Pickler obtained a Canadian government memo written after the senior economic adviser to Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, met with members of the Canadian consulate -- a memo that seems to back up the Canadian Television story and ABC News follow-up reports indicating that Obama's campaign sent signals to our neighbors to the North that his anti-NAFTA rhetoric should not be taken seriously.

Obama adviser Austan Goolsbee's comments were summed up by Canadian consulate staffer Joseph DeMora this way: "Noting anxiety among many U.S. domestic audiences about the U.S. economic outlook, Goolsbee candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign. He cautioned that this messaging should not be taken out of context and should be viewed as more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans."

Goolsbee disputed the characterization, telling the AP, "this thing about `it's more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans,' that's this guy's language. He's not quoting me....I certainly did not use that phrase in any way."

The Obama campaign over the weekend falsely claimed the CTV story had been "retracted." It has not.

And in fact, the story seems today more alive than ever. That is, if the press does its job.

If.

more from AP:

SAN ANTONIO, Texas (AP) — Barack Obama's senior economic policy adviser said Sunday that Canadian government officials wrote an inaccurate portrayal of his private discussion on the campaign's trade policy in a memo obtained by The Associated Press.

The memo is the first documentation to emerge publicly out of the meeting between the adviser, Austan Goolsbee, and officials with the Canadian consulate in Chicago, but Goolsbee said it misinterprets what he told them. The memo was written by Joseph DeMora, who works for the consulate and attended the meeting.

Goolsbee disputed a section that read: "Noting anxiety among many U.S. domestic audiences about the U.S. economic outlook, Goolsbee candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign. He cautioned that this messaging should not be taken out of context and should be viewed as more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans."

"This thing about `it's more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans,' that's this guy's language," Goolsbee said of DeMora. "He's not quoting me.

"I certainly did not use that phrase in any way," Goolsbee said.

The meeting was first reported last week by Canadian television network CTV, which cited unnamed sources as saying that Goolsbee assured the Canadians that Obama's tough talk on the North American Free Trade Agreement is just campaign rhetoric not to be taken seriously. The Obama campaign and the Canadian embassy denied there was any inconsistency between what the candidate was saying publicly and what advisers were saying privately.

NAFTA is widely opposed in economically depressed Ohio, which holds its presidential primary Tuesday and is a key battleground between Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton. Both candidates said in a debate in Cleveland last week that they would renegotiate the trade agreement between the United States, Canada and Mexico, which is the largest trading partnership in the world, and threaten to pull out if it doesn't include more protections for workers and the environment.

"I think we should use the hammer of a potential opt-out as leverage to ensure that we actually get labor and environmental standards that are enforced," Obama said in the debate.

The memo obtained by the AP was widely distributed within the Canadian government. It is more than 1,300 words and covers many topics that DeMora said were discussed in the Feb. 8 "introductory meeting" between himself, Goolsbee and the consul general in Chicago, Georges Rioux.

Goolsbee "was frank in saying that the primary campaign has been necessarily domestically focused, particularly in the Midwest, and that much of the rhetoric that may be perceived to be protectionist is more reflective of political maneuvering than policy," the memo's introduction said. "On NAFTA, Goolsbee suggested that Obama is less about fundamentally changing the agreement and more in favour of strengthening/clarifying language on labour mobility and environment and trying to establish these as more `core' principles of the agreement."

Goolsbee said that sentence is true and consistent with Obama's position. But he said other portions of the memo were inaccurate.

He said he has been surprised that such a banal and trivial meeting with a low-level consulate official has created so much controversy and resulted in such an inaccurate depiction. He said he was invited to the consulate to meet the officials and get a tour.

He said the visit lasted about 40 minutes, and perhaps two to three minutes were spent discussing NAFTA. He said the Canadians asked about Obama's position, and he replied about his interest in improving labor and environmental standards, and they raised some concerns that Obama sounds like a protectionist.

He said he responded that Obama is not a protectionist, but that the Illinois senator tries to strike a balance between the economic struggles of working Americans and recognizing that free trade is good for the economy.

"That's a pretty ham-handed description of what I answered," Goolsbee said of memo's account. "A: In no possible way was that a reference to NAFTA. And B: In no possible way was I inferring that he was going to introduce any policies that you should ignore and he had no intention of enacting. Those are both completely crazy."

Tristan Landry, a spokesman for the Canadian embassy in Washington, said DeMora was not available for an interview Sunday. His only comment on the memo was to say that although consulate officials reach out to U.S. campaign officials to seek their views, "Canada does not in any way seek to interfere in U.S. electoral politics."

Canada supports NAFTA and does not want to see it interrupted.

The Canadian memo said that when Rioux "asked whether we could expect to hear more of this as the elections progressed, Goolsbee thought not. In fact, he mentioned that going forward the Obama camp was going to be careful to send the appropriate message without coming off too protectionist.

"As Obama continues to court the economic populist vote, particularly in upcoming contests like Ohio, we are likely to see a continuation of some of the messaging that hasn't played in Canada's favour, but this should continue to be viewed in the context in which it is delivered," DeMora wrote in the closing section.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton said Goolsbee's visit was not as an emissary from the campaign, but as a professor from the University of Chicago. He was not authorized to share any messages from the campaign, Burton said.

Burton, who was on the call while Goolsbee described his visit to the AP, said, "It all boils down to a clumsy, inaccurate portrayal of the conversation."

Asked if he agreed with Burton, Goolsbee said he did.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jrFPkleRZmbmPtPxHBGNAPSzfUtwD8V5OLP00
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. I was amazed that there was absolutely zero coverage of this
rather big story on the Sunday talkies. The networks appear to be covering for the Obama campaign, even ABC. This appears ominous to me...
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. thanks--i have not tuned in.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. MSNBC was talking about it this morning on Joe....the story is true Obama lied about it too...
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 09:16 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
this is very disturbing.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. whow--I know the OHIO unions had put our a letter to him asking questions he has
not responded to.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Ohio Labor Leaders Want Obama to Come Clean on NAFTA and end his Washington double-speak
Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject Ohio Labor Leaders Want Obama to Come Clean on NAFTA and end his Washington double-speak
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4855351#4855351
4855351, Ohio Labor Leaders Want Obama to Come Clean on NAFTA and end his Washington double-speak
Posted by jackson_dem on Mon Mar-03-08 12:41 AM

Does anyone know if Obama has responded? Surely these simple questions can easily and quickly be answered by a candidate who were are told has a great rapid response team.

Dear Senator Obama:

We were surprised and disappointed to learn that your top economic adviser reportedly had a secret meeting with a representative of the Canadian government where he dismissed your anti-NAFTA rhetoric.

According to Canadian news outlets, your adviser, Austan Goolsbee, told the Canadian Counsel General Georges Rioux that your criticism of NAFTA is "just politics" and should not be taken seriously.

After a series of misdirections and half-truths, it's time for you to come clean about your campaign's communications with the Canadian government about NAFTA. Enough with the non-denial denials and the Washington double-speak.

Many Ohioans are concerned about the issue of trade and we want answers to some simple questions:

1) Did you direct your top economic adviser - Austan Goolsbee - to tell the Canadian government that your speeches railing against NAFTA are just political rhetoric? If so, why?

2) Are you aware that Mr. Goolsbee held a secret meeting with the Canadian Counsel General Georges Rioux? Have you spoken with Mr. Goolsbee about that meeting and will you repudiate his comments?

3) Why has Mr. Goolsbee been unwilling to deny that he discussed your positions on NAFTA with Mr. Rioux? Why won't your campaign disclose the full details about that meeting?

4) Given these reports, why should Ohioans believe that you will act on the campaign promises you have made about NAFTA?

5) Sen. Clinton has issued a comprehensive plan to fix NAFTA. Why haven't you done so as well?

The people of Ohio are eager to hear from you - there's too much at stake.

Sincerely,

Gary Dwyer, Secretary-Treasurer, Ohio State Building and Construction Trades Council
Barry Pickett, Business Representative, Sheet Metal Workers International Association, Local 24

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/1/195512/6896
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
71. Hey you shameful wench
the canadian embassy issued an APOLOGY!

ttp://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Canadians_regret.html#comments

Canadians regret...

There's lots of grist for Canadian political reporters right now, as the Canadian Embassy issues an apology and a sort of recantation -- though not really a denial -- of the Goolsbee story. This happens even as their superiors in Ottawa seem determined to cause trouble in the Democratic primary.

The Canadian Embassy and our Consulates General regularly contact those involved in all of the Presidential campaigns and, periodically, report on these contacts to interested officials. In the recent report produced by the Consulate General in Chicago, there was no intention to convey, in any way, that Senator Obama and his campaign team were taking a different position in public from views expressed in private, including about NAFTA. We deeply regret any inference that may have been drawn to that effect.

The people of the United States are in the process of choosing a new President and are fortunate to have strong and impressive candidates from both political parties. Canada will not interfere in this electoral process. We look forward, however, to working with the choice of the American people in further building an unparalleled relationship with a close friend and partner.

So they're not disputing the text of the memo, just what it's words intended to convey. Perhaps it's the language barrier, but I'm not sure there's a clear alternative reading.

Anyway, the dread specter of Canadian interference has now been raised.

A side story, as Noam Scheiber writes: "What's shocking is that a foreign government would leak it to the press. That seems like a pretty egregious breach of protocol--more like a dirty trick by an operative in a conservative government than anything else. I can't imagine it'll bode well for U.S.-Canadian relations if Obama makes it to the White House ...."
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. from your own link "-- though not really a denial -- of the Goolsbe story"...you shameful schucmk.
Edited on Tue Mar-04-08 09:55 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
52. They are simply waiting to pounce once B.O. has secured the nomination.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #52
63. That is what i was afraid of. If the Obama campaign continues
to ignore this, it will only come back later and worse...
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
4. That's a real surprise
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 09:16 AM by Pigwidgeon
Edited for spelling only.

Not only does it run counter to The Narrative, it also runs counter to what *I* thought of the story -- that it was a Rovian wedge-driver.

If it's true, there will be heck to pay, and if it hits the news cycle today, all bets for OH and TX are off.

Oddly, although I'm a Hillary supporter, I hope it's not true.

--p!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. well your post has somewhat confused me.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
34. I don't take much joy in this kind of report
I like to think that Democrats are, as a whole, above these kinds of lies. I'd prefer to see Hillary win on her skill in politics and people rejecting revival-meeting politics. But I never thought of BHO as being fundamentally dishonest, in spite of the full-throated malicious accusations from his supporters that Hillary is incapable of telling the truth.

I am not an Obama-hater, though a lot of the antics of TODU -- Team Obama at DU -- are sure off-putting. I do not enjoy seeing reports that Obama acted cynically, covered up he acts with lies, and when the story came out, covered up with malicious gossip from the ground troops. It's the kind of thing that detracts from all of us.

-p!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #34
65. yes i understand. thanks
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. K and REC
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
9. Both Obama and Clinton are backing a trade deal with Peru
that is just as bad if not worse than NAFTA. How anyone can believe either of them when they say they will fix or shred NAFTA, I don't know.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. So?? How does this address the OP
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
10. Obama Campaign Lied About Canadian Embassy NAFTA meeting (an AP story)


Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject Obama Campaign Lied About Canadian Embassy NAFTA meeting
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4856355#4856355
4856355, Obama Campaign Lied About Canadian Embassy NAFTA meeting
Posted by carlotta on Mon Mar-03-08 06:10 AM

Now, they're admitting there was a conversation with the Canadian Embassy in Chicago--recall that last week they denied that there was any contact. And now, Obama's Economic Advisor Austan Goolsbee is just quibbling about the exact words that were used in that conversation. Tsk. Tsk.

SAN ANTONIO - Barack Obama's senior economic policy adviser said Sunday that Canadian government officials wrote an inaccurate portrayal of his private discussion on the campaign's trade policy in a memo obtained by The Associated Press.



The memo is the first documentation to emerge publicly out of the meeting between the adviser, Austan Goolsbee, and officials with the Canadian consulate in Chicago, but Goolsbee said it misinterprets what he told them. The memo was written by Joseph DeMora, who works for the consulate and attended the meeting.

Goolsbee disputed a section that read: "Noting anxiety among many U.S. domestic audiences about the U.S. economic outlook, Goolsbee candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign. He cautioned that this messaging should not be taken out of context and should be viewed as more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans."

"This thing about `it's more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans,' that's this guy's language," Goolsbee said of DeMora. "He's not quoting me.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080303/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_nafta
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
12.  Obama adviser denies trade remarks [headline for AP story above} looks
like the Obama campaign is in damage control mode.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. where are the obama fans on this??
calling all obamaites!!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. The AP story is illustrative of the Obama campaign is DAMAGE CONTROL mode
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. The timing is interesting to say the least.
I am not fooled but am glad this was brought out early for Obama to defeat today rather than republicans swiftboating him with it later.

You arent going to fool me tho! I know what you are trying to do and it wont work. Clinton has much worse on her if Obama EVER decided to fight back against this shit with shit.
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
14. Election eve last-ditch effort to sway Ohio voters. n/t
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Why hasn't Obama addressed the unions with a statement? instead he has ignored them
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. are you attempting to defend Obama on on his LYING to the American voters?!?
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 09:37 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
shame on you if you think this is acceptable
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
16. Though Obviously Far Less Important, This Reminds Me Of The DSM Denial.
"It wasn't his words! The person writing the notes just got it all wrong! We never would've said that!" blah blah friggin blah.

I think even the Obama supporters can now smell the bullshit comin from the defense on this one...
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. they have their nose plugs on-----along with their blinders
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
19. So let's see
The Obama camapaign has lied three times on this story - First a spokesman gave a rather lame rebuttal that "Obama will keep his promises", then the campaign released a disingenous non-denial that claimed the story had "inaccuracies" w/o ever specifically denying the call, then Goolsbee himself personally denied it.

Y'all need to wake up on this. Obama's economic advisors are all pro-free trade, pro-free market Friedmanites. They are not populists & they do not care about the loss of working class jobs. Goolsbee is a "Chicago Boy" who believes that the answer to every problem is more privatization & corporate tax cuts. Obama's economic team esposes classic neoliberalism. And that's the way he will govern - the rest is just smoke & mirrors to try & trick Ohio voters.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
21. How did I get 2 thread going on this topic...damn it..it's confusing...I'm sorry folks...
I have no clue how it happened
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
22. Um, so it's NOT true
Goolsbee "was frank in saying that the primary campaign has been necessarily domestically focused, particularly in the Midwest, and that much of the rhetoric that may be perceived to be protectionist is more reflective of political maneuvering than policy," the memo's introduction said. "On NAFTA, Goolsbee suggested that Obama is less about fundamentally changing the agreement and more in favour of strengthening/clarifying language on labour mobility and environment and trying to establish these as more `core' principles of the agreement."

Goolsbee said that sentence is true and consistent with Obama's position. But he said other portions of the memo were inaccurate.

He said he responded that Obama is not a protectionist, but that the Illinois senator tries to strike a balance between the economic struggles of working Americans and recognizing that free trade is good for the economy.

"That's a pretty ham-handed description of what I answered," Goolsbee said of memo's account. "A: In no possible way was that a reference to NAFTA. And B: In no possible way was I inferring that he was going to introduce any policies that you should ignore and he had no intention of enacting. Those are both completely crazy."
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:43 AM
Original message
no IT IS TRUE and shame on you for trying to defend his LIE to the American people!
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
26. ROFL
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 09:53 AM by yourguide
It's not true and shame on you for not knowing how to read!


oh STOP!



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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #22
44. UNION folk in OHIO are NOT duped.
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #44
61. And Obama has about half the Union support in Ohio
Link here:

http://tinyurl.com/25nshs

So, according to your assumption, HALF the "UNION folk" in Ohio are duped. They'll be happy to learn that.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #22
49. shame on you
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:13 AM
Original message
SHAME ON YOU
for posting hateful lies. You should be ashamed of no one but YOURSELF!


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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
76. From your own link "-- though not really a denial -- of the Goolsbee story. " ...SHAME ON YOU!
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. STOP
you are completely insane. insane.

the Canadian government apologized you freak.


grooooooooooooow UP!


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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #22
75. Hey you shameful schumck from your own link "- though not really a denial - of the Goolsbee story."
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
24. More BS from CTV. They misrepresent a memo, then say Goolsbee disputes their version as inaccurate
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 09:43 AM by ProSense
When CTV provides actual clarification from Goolsbee, it sound nothing like their version.

"Burton, who was on the call while Goolsbee described his visit to the AP, said, "It all boils down to a clumsy, inaccurate portrayal of the conversation."



It appears CTV got caught distorting an event and they're now trying to distort it even further in damage control.

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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. so you try to shaft the voters too ....you have no shame
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Huh? Stop the desperate attempts to give credibility to a failed RW distortion. n/t
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Sounds Like What Freepers Said In Regards To The Downing Street Memo.
Except they called it left wing distortions. Twists my stomach to see some here acting just as ignorantly as they did.
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. Excuse me?! ElsewheresDaughter?!
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 09:55 AM by Zachstar
So we don't buy a bullshit swiftboat attempt in two seconds and you say we have no shame?

Just think about it for two fucking seconds.

Who benefits from a continued race. Republicans and you guessed it! The news networks!

I notice some of yall posting how it has appeared on the news networks. I wonder why?


Obama and others will pick this shit to pieces later. If there is anything left then yes Obama needs to address that so the republicans dont try to continue the swiftboat later. However, for now just accept that it it not going to be hook, line, and sinker.

Swiftboating worked before.. It will not work again.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. you're trying to defend Obama's deception by claiming CTV &Canadain Gov't officals are swiftboaters?
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 10:05 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
you need help
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. Let us see. News Agencies Lie and .gov oficials can just as easily lie.
So ya this sounds like a swiftboat.

1 day before the election that will mean Clinton really needs to exit and this suddenly appears.

So whatever man. I aint fully denying it as of course the experts here need to log on and get it examined. I am saying that I have seen this BEFORE!

Had this been a week ago that they suddenly said this shit I would have said it really could be a factor. But sorry if my BULLSHIT alarm goes off when it is ONE day from the big tuesday of this month!
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. I'm sorry that Obama's deception has hurt you and his supporters the deeply .
but most of all I feel sorry for the American people who have been screwed...especially Ohio and Texas
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Spin All You Want. Obama And His Campaign Have Been Flat Out Caught In A Lie Here.
Weren't there firm statements that no meeting even took place at all? I forget...

Looks like your false idol isn't any purer than Hillary after all, and in fact may even be lying through his teeth even more.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. My goodness, I hope Obama has better campaign advisers than
his supporters on this board. Because the more Obama's supporters try to cover this up the worse it makes Obama look. If this is a smear and he is handling it this poorly, it bodes ill for the fall...
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
29. 5 things.
1. Nedra Pickler is a known hack. (this goes more to motive than veracity)

2.
"This thing about `it's more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans,' that's this guy's language," Goolsbee said of DeMora. "He's not quoting me.

"I certainly did not use that phrase in any way," Goolsbee said.


3.
"That's a pretty ham-handed description of what I answered," Goolsbee said of memo's account. "A: In no possible way was that a reference to NAFTA. And B: In no possible way was I inferring that he was going to introduce any policies that you should ignore and he had no intention of enacting. Those are both completely crazy."


4.
"On NAFTA, Goolsbee suggested that Obama is less about fundamentally changing the agreement and more in favour of strengthening/clarifying language on labour mobility and environment and trying to establish these as more `core' principles of the agreement."

This is a quote from the memo. Exactly in line with both candidates, per the last debate.


5. Who gives a shit? :)
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. she doesnt care about being truthful..
i cant wait for this fuckin bs to end.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. above it all I'm sorry that he hurt you with his lies the most.....really I am.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. obvisously you don't give a shit about the decieving of the American people by Obama...sad
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. Read your own post.
Obama spokesman Bill Burton said Goolsbee's visit was not as an emissary from the campaign, but as a professor from the University of Chicago. He was not authorized to share any messages from the campaign, Burton said.

Burton, who was on the call while Goolsbee described his visit to the AP, said, "It all boils down to a clumsy, inaccurate portrayal of the conversation."

Asked if he agreed with Burton, Goolsbee said he did.






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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #40
51. a very weak and failed attempt to cover his ass
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. Alrighty, then. Let's take the memo at it's exact word:
Goolsbee "was frank in saying that the primary campaign has been necessarily domestically focused, particularly in the Midwest, and that much of the rhetoric that may be perceived to be protectionist is more reflective of political maneuvering than policy," the memo's introduction said. "On NAFTA, Goolsbee suggested that Obama is less about fundamentally changing the agreement and more in favour of strengthening/clarifying language on labour mobility and environment and trying to establish these as more `core' principles of the agreement."


What do we have?

1. Obama is not a protectionist.
2. Obama is in favor of strengthening/clarifying labor and environmental standards.
3. Obama wants labor/environmental standards to be core to NAFTA.

Exactly his position on the stump and at the debate.



The bullshit part of the story is to try and spin it into a lie. Good work, ED.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
38. Racist POS Nedra Pickler? Yea..ok.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. oops there it is!...the Obama peeps race card....so sad
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. It only took 38 posts...
:eyes:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. the post illustrates the shere vileness of so many anti-hillary posts! (race card??)
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. CARE to explain yourself before you spout off FOOLishness? Hit and Run Flamebait


hnmnf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Mar-03-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
38. Racist POS Nedra Pickler? Yea..ok.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. I really feel bad for Obama supporters ....his lie is going to hurt them the most. and that sucks
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 10:50 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. yes, I am starting to pity them.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #42
68. This is a person who uses C.U.N.T. as a source.
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
50. this is still here say and desperate reaching, but nice try and I'll kick for ya
I think most voters in Ohio are far smarter than you are giving them credit.

This story is so convoluted and thin, only you and a few others (me included) can keep this on the top.

I'm going to enjoy reading your other fruitless attempts to smear your Obama instead of promoting Clinton today!
:hi:
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
53. Just heard CNN reporting on this!!!
:kick: & :thumbsup:
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Carrieyazel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
54. I always believed this story was true. Obama camp has been caught.
"Change you can't believe" should be the new slogan. Come to think of it, this isn't any change at all. We've been deceived for years now, and it looks like the deception continues.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. "Change You Can't Believe" ...yes we have been decieved
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
56. *yawn*
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. I'm sorry that Obama has hurt you and the American voters with hius lies.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. That's comedy, right?
:rofl:





:spray:
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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
57. You guys sure are salivating with this
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riskpeace Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
60. This "spin" reminds me of the "16 words" defense.
From the AP article: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/WireStory?id=4375665&page=2

Goolsbee said he has been surprised that such a banal and trivial meeting with a low-level consulate official has created so much controversy and resulted in such an inaccurate depiction. He said he was invited to the consulate to meet the officials and get a tour.

He said the visit lasted about 40 minutes, and perhaps two to three minutes were spent discussing NAFTA. He said the Canadians asked about Obama's position, and he replied about his interest in improving labor and environmental standards, and they raised some concerns that Obama sounds like a protectionist.


The amount of time they discussed NAFTA has nothing to do with whether it was the subject of the meeting. It's the same sort of argument as the "16 words" defense when Bush got caught lying.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. It certainly does!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. Damage Control always makes my heard spin --
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
67. "Shut your mouth!" "Well I'm talk'n bout NAFTA SHAFTA!!"
:rofl: :thumbsup:
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. LOL
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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
69. Oh good grief, I didn't realize Goolsbee was involved
Goolsbee, the DLC man. Nice. Shoulda figured.

This story doesn't rock my boat because I assume that Obama is a pandering and dishonest politician interested in his own ambitions. So, no particular points lost here.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. LOL...that's how I feel about all of them.
:)
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sueragingroz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
73. NAFTA SHAFTA... that has a fun ring to it!
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
78. "Canada supports NAFTA and does not want to see it interrupted."
BULLSHIT.

http://www.ipsos-na.com/news/pressrelease.cfm?id=2224

"Six in ten Canadians (62 percent) disagree that Canada should sign a trade agreement that would open Canada’s public services to competition from foreign companies."

"A further six in ten (60 percent) disagree that government should sign deals that would allow corporations to directly sue the Government of Canada if our public policies impair their ability to make profits".


We. Want. OUT.
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