Why do so many people think Hillary is a one-time-only chance to have a female president?

[Hugabear]

I for one wholeheartedly reject this notion, that if we don't elect Hillary this time, we'll never get another chance.

If we were talking about Hillary Rodham, and not Hillary Clinton - if she had never been First Lady - would we even be having this discussion? Let's face it, she's as popular as she is because of her status as former First Lady, being married to a very popular president. I'm sure that she'd make a decent president herself, and if she is our candidate, I will vote for her. But let's not kid ourselves, if she were just another female Senator, would she have ever been the frontrunner?

I say this because I believe that we have many fine, strong women within our own party. The next female candidate doesn't necessarily have to come from Congress, it could be a female governor, or even a strong newcomer. Four years ago, how many people really knew who Obama was?

So please - if Hillary doesn't win the nomination, don't act like a petulant child, threatening to take your ball and go home. Don't say that this is the last chance to get a woman president, and that you're not going to vote in the general election. Don't turn this into some sex-war. If it happens, then suck it up and work on next time.

[NightWatcher]

1. you mean just like Jesse Jackson wasnt the only chance for an African American President?

[splat]

2. 232 years to get this chance; glass ceiling, old boy network work against gaining cred

[ginnyinWI]

3. I don't think she's such a great role model either.

1. She's ridden Bill's coattails to get where she is today, for the most part. She's using his name, prestige and connections to raise money and endorsements.
2. A strong woman is not one who constantly whines, complains and makes excuses for everything. She does far too much of that and far too little taking responsibility for her own campaign.

[dkf]

4. She's not my idea of who I want as the first female President

Her bad judgment would give the female President brand a bad name.

[easy_b94]

10. DING DING

I would like to see a women President but NOT Hillary.

[burythehatchet]

38. I learned that lesson from Pelosi n/t

[Justitia]

48. Yup, I'd rather have Barbara Boxer as our first female president. -eom

[Apollo11]

5. Maybe not one-time-only. More like once-in-a-generation.

But you're right. I mean we've only had 43 male Presidents until now. Would it kill us to have a few more? :eyes:

[scheming daemons]

7. turnabout....

"we've only had 43 white Presidents until now. Would it kill us to have a few more?"

[Apollo11]

12. Women are 52% of the population, as far as I know.

Just sayin' :eyes:

[scheming daemons]

13. "as far as I know" seems to be a favorite saying for HIllary and supporters....

....

[Apollo11]

18. Hey, you know, whatever bugs the Obamaniacs!

;-)

[Hugabear]

16. And women have made great strides in the past few decades

So why do you think that Hillary is such a one-shot deal?

[Hugabear]

11. I reject that notion also

Maybe up to this point, but you really think there won't be any more viable female candidates for a long time?

By your tone, it sounds like you'd vote for any female candidate just for the sake of having a female in office.

[Apollo11]

15. And I denounce your rejection!

It's not like there are a whole bunch of strong women in politics who are lining up make a succesful run for the Presidency in 2012, 2016, 2020, 2024 ...

Can you name me one? :eyes:

[Hugabear]

20. Oh please...

With an attitude like that, I honestly hope that you support EACH AND EVERY female candidate - regardless of their party affiliation. I hope that you support rethugs like Condi Rice and Kay Bailey Hutchinson.

Honestly, I am sick and tired of the fact that she has a vagina being the overriding concern among so many people.

[SoxFan]

43. No, we're fresh out of qualified women now...

[Exilednight]

44. Just because Hillary was overt about her intentions, don't for one minute believe that there are ...

not more women out there looking to make a run. Four to eight years in politics is a lifetime where new leaders can emerge and old faces can reappear.

[redqueen]

6. Hysteria?

[Debi]

19. Are we playing buzzword bingo?

:hi:

[redqueen]

23. Hehehe... just bein snarky.

:evilgrin:

That 'oh woesy woesy woe, women just have to wait 50 years I guess' stuff... I thought I'd try a little sexism to explain sexism kinda thing. :P

:hi:

[Tom Rinaldo]

8. No more so than Obama is a one time only chance to have a Black President.

Before Colin Powell declared as a Republican many thought he could be our first Black President running as either a Democrat, Republican, or Independent. Then Iraq happened, but that had nothing to do with Powell being Black.

[stellanoir]

9. Because she is the only woman in the country

don'chyaknow. . .?

[OzarkDem]

14. Because women have to work harder and serve longer

to reach those levels of political leadership.

There isn't much of a "farm team" out there for women Dem leaders.

[mmonk]

17. It's not that.

They are free to want one now. Nothing wrong with that.

[Zookeeper]

21. If Senator Clinton doesn't get the nomination...

I'm not confident that I will see a Democratic female president in my lifetime. A Rethuglican? Maybe.

The misogyny that her campaign has elicited will be there for any female presidential candidate, even a perfect one. Since the Rethugs are the most sexist, the only woman candidate they could end up "excusing" would be another Rethug.

Frankly, being told to "suck it up" is really galling. "Suck it up" is what women have been told through out U.S. history. African-American men got the vote 60 years before we did (and, yes, they were prevented from exercising that right in some places), but the women that worked for abolition were told to "suck it up" and wait their turn.

I can't imagine that you would dare say to African-Americans, "So please - if (Obama) doesn't win the nomination, don't act like a petulant child, threatening to take your ball and go home. Don't say that this is the last chance to get a (black) president, and that you're not going to vote in the general election. Don't turn this into some (race)-war. If it happens, then suck it up and work on next time."

Don't assume you have the right to tell women how to feel or act.

[Hugabear]

31. Who said I was talking to women only?

When I said if Hillary doesn't win, to "suck it up" - can you show where that was aimed solely at women? Or is it the continuing sexist attitude that automatically makes you assume that I'm talking only to women? This is aimed at everyone who has been posting bullshit like "If Hillary doesn't win, I'm just not going to vote".

[Zookeeper]

35. My bad for assuming you were talking to just women.

I still think you are way out of line.

[Hugabear]

37. I'll tell you what's out of line

Is the # of people - both Obama and Hillary supporters - who have publicly declared that if their candidate doesn't win, they'll either not vote at all, or will vote Republican.

AFAIC, party loyalty doesn't hinge on whether or not my candidate gets the nomination. That's what I meant by 'sucking it up, not taking your ball and going home'.

If you're one of those people who would rather stay home and not support the Democratic candidate if Hillary loses, then you're the one who's way out of line.

[Zookeeper]

39. I've stated here that I will support the Democratic Nominee.

Period.

[Hugabear]

41. Thanks

We can have our differences of opinion, as long as we put the Democratic party first and foremost, and work on changes from within.

[damonm]

46. And you would be dead wrong.

This is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT Presidential election of the past quarter-century. For anyone on the progressive side of the divide to even THINK of staying home because their candidate didn't get the nod is asinine in the extreme. To do so is to cede the White House to the GOP so that they can complete their madhouse stampede toward the destruction of American democracy.

Is a juvenile temper tantrum worth that much to you? I'm an Obama supporter, and make no bones about that,BUT...

Should Sen. Clinton stage a comeback and capture the nomination, I WILL be working my overlarge ass off to get her elected in the GE, despite my misgivings about her in that environment. Clinton's supporters should be ready to do the same for Obama. If you're not, and I speak to BOTH sides here, we will have YOU to thank for the continued pouring of blood & treasure down the rathole known as Iraq; we will have YOU to thank when the strengthened-thru-our-neglect Al-Qaeda strikes us again; we will have YOU to thank for the overturn of Roe V. Wade by the conservative judges McCain will appoint;
we will have YOU to thank for the continued erosion of our Constitutional rights.

And what will you say to the tens of millions who can't get health care because YOU stayed home?
"The Democrats didn't nominate who I wanted, so I (stayed home)(voted for McCain). You see, my temper tantrum was more important than your family's health." That will be ALL you can say, if you speak any truth.

If this is "way out of line", or too harsh for your sensitive little ears, then TOO DAMN BAD!

We MUST get a Democrat in the White House; I personally think Obama's our best shot at achieving this, but I'll live with Clinton, should she be the nominee, and any Obama supporter worth his/her salt had better start thinking the same. If you're a Clinton supporter, just reverse it and live with Obama should HE get the nod.

The alternative is unthinkable - it's time for us all to GROW THE HELL UP.

[Zookeeper]

57. Calm down.

Why are you (stupidly) assuming that I would stay home?

[suston96]

22. The Democratic Party Charter demands that delegates must be divided equally men and women. nt

[oasis]

24. Hillary is by far the best candidate. She's the best equiped to put America back on top.

:thumbsup:

[damonm]

36. Then please explain this:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

[pnwmom]

25. She isn't. But the same misogynistic tactics will be used against every woman,

if they are believed to have worked against her.

[CBHagman]

26. This is a strictly personal view, but...

...I feel she is highly symbolic and that people respond to her the way they might to a Rorschach test. We all know how certain elements of the media and the GOP react, and anyone who hangs out at DU knows the various stances taken by our own factions.

One of the things I see happening with Hillary is the wholesale bashing of her due to her age, generation, and the figure she cuts. She's not what the media or the general population define as young, hip, and cool. That shouldn't matter; we're picking a president, not the cast of Lost.

And I'd note that the American media has no particular affection for or admiration of women over 50 (in fact, our whole society is no great shakes when it comes to acknowledging older generations). American women in that age bracket have observed that they feel invisible, and it's not just in the media.

I've read many comments from women who angrily deride the use of Bill Clinton's coattails. But while I'm not a fan of nepotism, I think it's a bit disingenuous to apply the objections to it in one case and not another. Like it or not, it occurs in both parties, all over the country, and of course around the world. Widows, sons, daughters, nieces, nephews rise to political power all over the map. Just the other day I got a fundraising letter from the late Representative Julia Carson's (D-IN) grandson, for instance.

And we can say that Bill Clinton, unlike George W. Bush, rose to his position based on his reputation as a governor and his skills as a politician (and with a dollop of luck from his timing and political lay of the land), not based on biology.

I'd also add that when George W. Bush was running for president, members of the press tumbled all over themselves proclaiming how likable, modest, and secure he was. When the wretch became president -- or, as he often says, took office -- America and the world saw the evidence of his vindictiveness, incuriosity, secretiveness, and just plain unbridled abuse of power. He was sold as one thing and proved to be another.

The Clintons have always faced a more critical media and often a divided party. That's not to say they share no responsibility for the state of things, but the criticism was often disproportionate and/or off the mark.

By the way, I will not only vote for but volunteer for the eventual nominee, no two ways about it. So I'm all in favor of unity. I just hate the fact that any movement or party, ours included, has its share of infighting and ill will. None of that is new; even the civil rights, anti-mine, and feminist movements have their divisions, rivalries, and internecine conflicts.

[Zookeeper]

29. .....

:thumbsup:

[Arkansas Granny]

27. Perhaps because she would be the first serious female Presidential

candidate to ever enter the race. It seems that the chances of a female President are few.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_United_States_presidential_and_vice-presidential_candidates


FWIW, I'm not supporting Hillary because of her gender. I happen to feel that she is the best qualified of the candidates still in the race. I will vote for Obama without hesitation if he is the Democratic nominee.

[Hugabear]

32. Just looking at that list...

All of those candidates are from minor parties. Maybe it speaks something to our own party, that we haven't done enough to advance and promote women within our own ranks?

I honestly believe that will change. Maybe I'm just optimistic, who knows.

[Barack_America]

28. I want a self-made woman for our first woman President.

I want a woman who succeeded because the efforts of her grandmother helped her mother succeed who, in turn helped her succeed.

I want a woman who has risen on the backs of other women, not a woman who has piggy-backed on her husband's success.

I want a woman who sends a clear message that you don't have to choose the right husband to achieve our nation's highest office.

Am I willing to wait another 10-20 years for this to happen? You bet I am!

[riverwalker]

30. Hillary is telling our daughters

they have to marry power, instead of having their own. This is not progress.
Hell, I consider Obama's 84 year old grandmother on her OWN little chicken farm more of a feminist than Hillary.

[CBHagman]

33. Actually, the claim that she married power is bogus.

I can make a stronger case that Arnold Schwarzenegger, Andrew Cuomo, Barbara Pierce, and Laura Welch "married power." You don't wed the elder son of a divorced nurse from Hot Springs to "marry power." I can assure you that I've been hearing about Kennedys and Roosevelts for all my life and about Bushes for half my life, but there were no Clintons (or Blythes, for that matter) elected to national office before 1992.

[AGirl]

42. thanks. good call.

[Hugabear]

45. I agree with that notion

I do not buy into the right-wing talking point that Hillary married Bill Clinton solely for political purposes.

[CBHagman]

67. Yeah, I knew a right-winger who loved to claim that.

Oy, did I ever hear that over the years from a former co-worker of mine who was a Bush fan and a hater of nearly anybody in the Democratic Party. "Hillary married Bill Clinton for power." Oy.

[Beausoir]

51. What a load of tripe. She may be telling YOUR daughters that...

although, I suspect you are the one actually ingraining that sexist shit into their brains.

My daughters see a fierce, proud, brilliant and tough woman.

You are in no position to be lecturing us on feminism. Got it?

[cap]

34. nobody else is in the wings... that's why

and that's why it's so hard to identify the sexism vs individual flaws. There's no one else around who has the clout. Often, the first woman office holder in other countries made it on the basis of her marriage. Then others follow.

It's just that simple. There's no one else around. Boxer, Feinstein, Mikulski, etc. don't have the clout. We've been sucking it up an awful long time here.

It's hard to hope when there's nothing there. It's a miracle that Obama made it as far as he has. I support Obama but I am sorry I cant see a woman in office.

[Hugabear]

40. That's the problem with thinking short-term

Nobody is in the wings right now - but does that really mean that there won't be any competent women available in 4,8,12,16, or 20 years?

As I said earlier in this thread, who is to blame for our predicament, where there are no strong powerful women? As much as I hate to give rethugs credit for anything, they've done a good job of positioning women like Condi Rice, Elizabeth Dole, and Christine Todd Whitman within their party. This is what I wholeheartedly reject, the notion that we cannot promote strong female candidates within our own party.

[SteppingRazor]

49. I disagree. There's plenty waiting in the wings...

Sebelius and Napolitano spring immediately to mind.

[cap]

60. they don't have the organization nationally to do this

I dont want to wait another decade.

Frankly, I dont think they will ever run for president.

No. We do not have a farm system to do this. That's one of the problems.

[SteppingRazor]

61. Who does?

Obama certainly didn't have a national organization behind him when he arrived in D.C. I don't know that those two will run for president either. But the point is, there are plenty of options.

[cap]

62. Obama is an exception...

Everyone else who's been in the primaries has had an organization... been on the talk shows for a while... has national -- not regional -- ties to labor, etc.

No.... there aren't options... The average American doesn't know Napolitano or Sibelius. The next woman has to start now to build the organization that will take her to the presidency and no one is doing it. Not that no one could but, my point, is that there is no one doing so right now. Which leaves us back to, if not Hillary, who then? It takes some time to build this organization. Obama didn't spring right out now. He has been working towards this for the past couple of years. Who is the woman who is going to do this?



The only other woman with the name recognition and the potential for an organization is Elizabeth Dole. Not my choice.

[NashVegas]

47. Hillary Clinton Is One of the Best and Brightest Female Publlic Servants, Ever

And if she can't get elected or even nominated to POTUS, who can among women?

[Catherine Vincent]

50. I don't see anyone saying this on DU.

What are you talking about?

[Hugabear]

53. Are you serious?

There have been PLENTY of threads where people have stated that they'd either not vote, or they'd vote McCain if their candidate doesn't win the primaries.

Here's just one example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4851120

[Catherine Vincent]

55. I'm talking about the "one time only chance for a woman"

that you mentioned. And as far as DUers claiming to not vote for Barack, I see just as many stating they wouldn't vote for Hillary. I just ignore them.

[F.Gordon]

52. Roughly an 1/8 of the Electorate won't vote for a woman

You can ask Dole. She was told to shut the fuck up by the pukes and to back off. The fact that Hillary is doing as well as she is speaks highly IMO of her ability to fight these odds. If Hillary doesn't do it.... I'm fairly confident that we'll never see a woman President in this country. Well... maybe in 100 years.. maybe ...

Oh, and take that "petulant child" bullshit and shove it up your ass. Take your broad brush out to the sandbox and paint it black.

Oh... and just for the record.... I have a Penis and I support Hillary.
:hi:

[Hugabear]

54. If the shoe fits...

Anyone who says they won't vote in the general election is acting like a petulant child.

'Nuff said.

[F.Gordon]

56. Respect - Caring - Understanding

Many many years ago these were the foundation of personality traits for Liberals and Progressives. If someone is hurting and emotional the HIGH road would be to have a little understanding. To care.

But this requires a heart.. and a mind... neither of which I suspect you have.
:hi:

[Hugabear]

58. What about loyalty?

If someone is so insecure that they won't support their own party simply because their preferred candidate doesn't win, then they don't deserve respect, caring, or understanding.

If McCain wins because a bunch of sore losers sit on their asses in November, will you offer those stay-at-home people your respect?

[F.Gordon]

59. If that scenario plays out.. most will vote "D"... regardless

And if a few don't... well.. yes.. I'll respect their decision.

Have a nice day!
Peace

:hi:

[cap]

65. Let's cool this down...

it wasnt the best choice of words... but let's chill.

[cap]

64. Please don't use this language...

"petulant child" bullshit and shove it up your ass. Take your broad brush out to the sandbox and paint it black.


I support what you are saying... and I know it is hard to keep your cool sometimes... but let's keep things to a dull roar. Let's not tear ourselves apart. Please reach out and make nice -- even though the other party may have really gotten under your skin.

[electron_blue]

63. I believe she would have gone further had she not married Bill.

Believe it or not. Don't assume everyone agrees with you. We'll obviously never know for sure, but don't speak for everyone.

[cap]

66. Maybe yes... maybe no...

we can't tell... but let's turn the topic back to what we are going to rally around especially after the election.

By the comments on this board, I think we need to develop a "farm system" to grow a good selection of women candidates for president. That way, blatant sexism can really get called out. If it's just one candidate, we have no benchmark to compare criticism to. If we have a plethora of women to choose from, and we see the same nonsensical criticism, we can call it out for what it is.