Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What are the chances for the Dems to self destruct?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:49 PM
Original message
What are the chances for the Dems to self destruct?
I can hardly stand to look at the threads in GD:Primaries any longer and think that if I do I'm going to end up hating both Hillary and Obama.

If Obama pulls out a string of victories tomorrow than I think it is all over. Any other scenario and the situation just gets uglier and uglier. I think there has been a tremendous increase in the negatives on both sides over the past two weeks. Any continuation and Dems will be doing McCain's work for him. It is sounding like the contest will continue and I'm starting to have a sick feeling about the whole historic situation.

I guess most people aren't paying much attention yet but the thought of this continuing on for months is really distressing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. None.
After we pick our nominee everything will be fine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. I dont think they will self destruct. I only worry that Hillary drags this out to the convention
which would only give Obama an 8 week campaign against McCain
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Yep, self destruct it is. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Dems self destruct? We did it in the last two presidential elections. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. was it really self destructing though.
or did the ptb order them to throw the election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. SCOTUS and ptb probably joined hands but IMO Dem candidates allowed them selves to be outflanked on
a few divisive issues and that cost them key states.

Remember Gore lost his home state Tennessee where the margin of victory was 3.86%.

Gore allowed himself to be identified as supporting gun-bans trumpeted by Kennedy, Feinstein, & Schumer and that didn't play too well in a state with a strong rural heritage. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'd love to say slim to none...
but lately, the dems have a knack for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
I hope I'm being overly pessimistic!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. If people look at this video of Hillary speaking to Code Pink before the Iraq invasion, it should be
over tomorrow!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/2/192832/8354/283/467547

Hillary begins to speak at 6:03 on the video.

It is CRITICAL that anyone who is thinking of casting a vote for her watch this video and listen to her statements on going to war!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. If that is your only nickle, you have already spent it. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. did you watch the video? Or are you going to continue to be blindly loyal?
I'm sure you've opted not to see the truth.

Just like Bush in '00 and '04, the people will claim ignorance and wonder how the hell it happened later on down the road when the crap hits the fan and the US is brough into more wars...and we don't leave Iraq.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. My god, you're an idiot.
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 06:25 PM by Deep13
You see these O supporters on this website foaming at the mouth because of a few dishwatery speeches and nothing more and you accuse me of being loyal to a politician. Did you see the thread where people were vilify HC because she did not deny the Muslim rumor in sufficiently absolute terms? Sorry, but that fundamentalist thinking and you can count me out of it.

Everything "new" about O I have seen before. And it din't get us anywhere then either. I hear a pleasing voice spouting the same old wishful crap I have heard for decades.

P.S. I just tried to watch it. Sorry, I couldn't get past that stupid song. And frankly, I was saying the same thing in '03 that HC did. I can see how someone relying on the crap-souffle (the cherry picked and made up intelligence reports) might have thought authorizing force may have been prudent. This is especially true with W giving the Senate his personal assurance that it would only be used as a last resort. Kerry, Dodd, Edwards and Biden voted yes too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Asshole. Watch the video. I am a VETERAN. I wore the UNIFORM!!!
How DARE you minimize the FACT that Clinton LIES and continues to LIE about her vote on IWR, et al

Are you that fucking blind and frankly, ignorant!!

You won't accept the fucking truth!!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Some posters have an overinflated sense of self...
(if you don't agree with them, you must be ignorant, blind, a cultist or a troll), just remember, the ignore button is your friend! It is nice to have an opinion from someone who actually served in the military...Thank You!
:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. And here is some of the basis for my reasoning
transcription of Ms. Clinton’s remarks:

I admire your willingness to speak out on behalf of of the women and children of Iraq. There is a very easy way to prevent anyone from being put into harm’s way, and that is for Saddam Hussein to disarm. And I have absolutely no belief that he will. I have to say that this is something I have followed for more than a decade.

If he was serious about disarming, he would have been much more forthcoming coming. There may be progress, we may be destroying the Samoud missiles, but there is no accounting for the chemical and biological stocks. And I just respectfully disagree about what the proximate cause of any action that may be taken is.

Now I also believe that for now nearly 20 years the principal reason why women and children in Iraq have suffered is because of his leadership. His not only tyrannical and dictatorial leadership, but his reign of terror against women and children. And it is a — it is a very unfortunate situation for the Iraqi people that they have been so horribly misgoverned for so long.

Now, I do think that there are continuing discussions ongoing that I hope can make some further progress building on the success of the missile destruction program. But that has been the first real compliance, and it was only brought about when the inspectors discovered the missiles — they were not revealed — that their length was longer than what had been prescribed under the resolutions ending the Gulf War.

And the very difficult question for all of us is how does one bring about the disarmament of someone with such a proven track record of a commitment if not an obsession with weapons of mass destruction. And I ended up voting for the resolution after carefully reviewing the information and intelligence that I had available, talking with people whose opinions I trusted, trying to discount political or other factors that I didn’t believe should be in any way a part this decision.

And it is unfortunate that we are at the point of a potential military action to enforce the resolution. That is not my preference, it would be far preferable if we not only had legitimate cooperation from Saddam Hussein and a willingness on his part to disarm and account for his chemical and biological storehouses, but that if we had a much broader alliance and coalition.

But we are in a very difficult position right now. And so I would love to agree with you, but I can’t based on my own understanding and assessment of the situation.

In response to a question from an audience member:

… With respect to whose responsibility it is to disarm Saddam Hussein. I just do not believe that given the attitudes of many people in the world community today that there would be a willingness to take on very difficult problems were it not for the United States leadership.

And I’m talking specifically about what had to be done in Bosnia and Kosovo, where my husband could not get a Security Council Resolution to save the the Kosavar Albanians from ethnic cleansing. And we did it alone as the United States. And we had to do it alone.

It would have been far preferable if the Russians and others had agreed to do it through the United Nations. They would not.

I’m happy that in the face of such horrible suffering we did act. And so I see it somewhat differently, if you’ll forgive me, from my experience and perspective.

I’m agreeing with you a hundred percent that even though I am willing to take a very difficult step for me to say we have to disarm this man. That position in no way supports the disastrous economic policies that this administration is pursuing. In fact I think that this is the height of irresponsibility.

And it would be far preferable to be more patient and more thoughtful and more willing to try to engender support with respect to Iraq. That is a decision that has to be made in the world community.

Here at home this administration is bankrupting our economy, forcing us to make the worst kinds of false choices between national and homeland security, which they don’t fund. And between security and everything else, which they don’t want to fund.

So you have me a hundred percent on that. And it is absolutely wrong — it is wrong that for the first time in American history we have a President who is talking about leading this country to war and wanting to cut taxes at the same time.

That is the height of cruel, arrogant irresponsibility.

Now compare her comments with those reported by her fans at the New York Times:

Clinton Calls on Bush to ‘Extricate’ U.S. From Iraq

January 28, 2007
By PATRICK HEALY

DAVENPORT, Iowa, Jan. 28 — Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton called today for President Bush to “extricate our country” from Iraq by the time he leaves office in 2009, and she also said she knew enough about “evil and bad men” to protect the country from its enemies…

One person in the audience pressed Mrs. Clinton on her vote authorizing military action in Iraq in 2002, saying she allowed “the president to go to war,” and asked for specific steps she would take to end the war. She replied by selectively quoting from her speech in 2002 about her vote, saying it was not cast “for pre-emptive war,” but rather as leverage for the president to work diplomatic channels. (She did not mention that she also said at the time that she cast her vote "with conviction.")

Mrs. Clinton also took issue with President Bush’s recent statements that he did not expect to have the troops out of Iraq by the time he leaves office.

“I think it’s the height of irresponsibility and I really resent it — this was his decision to go to war, he went with an ill-conceived plan, an incompetently executed strategy, and we should expect him to extricate our country from this before he leaves office,” the senator said this morning…

Hillary Clinton is a liar.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/hillary-clintons-lies-about-iraq-caught-on-video-tape
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. If Obama wins tomorrow...
hold on to your hats because, you will then begin to see all of the hate that will be nothing compared to what we have been seeing here at DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. It has already happened.
I'm not going to do anything to support O if he wins. I just don't believe in him. Frankly, if I start seeing the kind purity police in the real world that I see on this board, I may not even vote for him in November. I don't see how the O people could support HC after the way they have vilified her.

Right now McC leads either HC or O nationally and I don't see that changing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrRobotsHolyOrders Donating Member (681 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Do you really think that the internet=real life?
"Someone was mean to me on a messageboard, so I'll let a Republican become president again"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. My post already answers that question.
Side note, in what way do you think the people who post on the board are not real?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrRobotsHolyOrders Donating Member (681 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Oh shit
I just read some of your other responses. You probably shouldn't be voting, period.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. So you read the thread that talked about the next POTUS
probably appointing THREE (3) judges and you're all good with leaving that up to McCain? Good to know... :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. People prone to vote against own self-interest
We've seen this happening since 1980. There are a lot of masochists out there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Don't put words in my mouth.
I said IF I start seeing the insistence of purity of thought (that is, personal loyalty to O rather than to the USA) like I am seeing on this board, then I may not vote for him. Nothing is worth becoming that kind of country. I really see some of his supporters going nuts interpreting anything anyone says, especially HC, as a personal insult on O and therefore them. One thread has a bunch of O supporters outraged because HC didn't deny the Muslim rumor and sufficient absolute terms. There is no way I'm going to support that kind of thought control.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. OK...
I guess I can't bring myself to sink to the level of vitriol I have seen from both Clinton and Obama supporters directed towards the other side. I've said before that I am an Obama supporter but IF Sen. Clinton gets the nomination I will crawl naked through broken glass to help her get elected. Any democrat is better than almost any republican, and especially THIS republican (McCain). Senator Obama has no control over what his supporters say on this board or any other, and I am not willing to hold either him or Hillary accountable for what comes out of the mouths (or keyboards) of overwrought self-important blowhards on either side...

:yoiks:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Ignorance.
Watch the video and justify your vote and loyalty please.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Speaking of ignorance...
...nothing said in a video, interview or speech makes one damn bit of difference to me. Jesus Christ, I know she's a hawk. My only concern at this point is to avoid four more years of amateur government. I backed the good candidates one but one as they dropped out. Now we have the two centrist, empty suits. Well, I pick the one that has actually been in the executive branch for eight years as Bill C.'s closest adviser and who actually has a Senate record. I'm also picking the one who has some hope of turning this economy around, something without which nothing we hope for will come true. Bush has fucked up this country far worse than most people realize and it will take a calculating, conniving ice queen to begin to fix it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. High, Unless HRC and BHO Stop Attacking Each Other and Both Go After McCain
We need to beat McCain. Let the candidates show us how they are going to do that.
Stop attacking each other!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4847248&mesg_id=4847248
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think it's very likely we will have McCain
for president. All the Democrats had to do was suit up and show up. It's pretty disgusting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. The odds are excellent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. Ask the queen...er...Hillary and her supporters.
This sure as hell seems to their intent. :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
21. Just depends on how far Hillary is willing to take it.
If we take an honest look at the math, it is impossible for her to actually win the nomination. Only the true believers would dispute that. But, for some reason, Hillary keeps soldiering on and launching destructive attacks on our front runner. Combine that with McCain, and Bush doing the same and Obama is getting triple teamed.

If this keeps up until the convention we are going to have a severely weakened candidate, that has been beaten to a pulp, going up against a Repuke candidate that has ran relatively unopposed since Super Tuesday.

Hillary needs to get over her own ambition, and come to grips with reality. She is hurting the party and country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
24. Even if self destruction wins all four states tomorrow...
self destruction won't win enough delegates to make a difference.

So I'm not worried about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. ...
:spray:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dempartisan23 Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. tomorrow will be rush fatbags happiest day
we are in the process of throwing away the easiest victory in history. hillary and obama raised 85 million in febuary, mccain nothing, and yet mccain will be president after tomorrow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
31. Paging John Edwards or Al Gore!
Get us outta this mess, please.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malik flavors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
32. I'm starting to think McCain's going to be our next president.
This competition is getting too hot. This kitchen sink strategy is really causing a lot of fuss within the dem. party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
33. A good primary fight is not always a bad thing
It sharpens the campaign, especially the eventual winning one. Its not like McCain campaign has been doing a great job anyway. Did you read the politico article that came out today talking about the trouble in the McCain campaign? He is already the nominee and has not been able to raise any money over the past few weeks. Hillary got 3x as much and Obama 5x and they are still doing battle. I think we are going to do very very well in November even if this goes to convention. If you asked me this a month ago I would have said no, but McCain's campaign has problems at its core that won't go away. The right wing radio aims their cannons at him every day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
37. Just like The news people are saying, they dont WANT this to end
Limbaugh takes the lead, but ALL of them want it to last forever. They WANT Clinton and Obama and all of their supporters to go on and on and on and on. It's perfect reality Tv, as they know that Gramps McCain and Huckabee are a snoozefest- nonstory.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC