MSNBC just now played a clip from the Canadian Parliament--Hillary is a LIAR!!

[Skidmore]

It showed a member of Parliament calling for the denunciation and firing of the party in the conservative government of Canada responsible for interferring in the American election by essentially giving false information about Senator Obama. I don't have a link but I'm certain others saw this as well and will comment.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. And this suggests Hillary is a liar how???

[JimGinPA]

9. Ummm, By Lying Mostly

:rofl:

[Hoof Hearted]

20. Cause obviously Hillary is a Canadian government official, right?

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[NightWatcher]

24. no, she just keeps repeating info that has been discredited and appologised for

she keeps repeating the lie, thus making it her own

[papau]

41. It was not withdrawn or said to be a lie - only that Canada has not had occassion to see Obama as a

liar - which depends on what they need to call him a liar.

The original story stands - the fellow has not recanted even one part of the story - he has only added words meant to soften the impact. The Canadian right wing government - like our GOP - wants Obama nominated so he will lose - and it has made statements meant to help Obama. But original fellows report is not debunked or appologised for being in error.

[catgirl]

89. Wrong. The conservative side skewed the facts so he would LOSE

They want Hillary to win. The Liberal side is incensed by their antics and
messing with our elections. Bill has lots of friends in the Canadian gov't,
btw.

[papau]

27. proof? - or as usual just another Obama smear from the sexist lying smearing Obama campaign

[JimGinPA]

44. She Got Busted In A BALD-FACED LIE

:spank:

[Auntie Bush]

100. I'd say Obama got busted in a bold faced lie AGAIN.

[elixir]

33. Because Hillary is responsible for everything that goes wrong in BOs campaign!!! Silly!!!!

[jgraz]

45. Um... her lips were moving?

:shrug:

[Hepburn]

51. I agree....it does NOT suggest that Hillary is a liar....

...IT FUCKING PROVES SHE IS ONE.

[JimGinPA]

2. Yeah, She's Busted

Can't wait for 'Countdown' tonight.


:rofl:

[Hieronymus]

8. Oh God, yes, Keith will feature this.

[anamandujano]

69. From the men's locker room, no doubt.

[Hieronymus]

92. We Liberals like Keith.

[Hieronymus]

3. I just watched it, too. Hillary caught red-handed, lying.

[elixir]

40. Hillary lied about what? Reading a memo? Hmmm, weak argument, try again.

[Dogmudgeon]

4. At this point, I'll wait for it to be investigated

The story isn't going anywhere and it looks like a whole lot of people are going to have to answer a whole lot a questions.

Truthfully.

Even a Yank or two.

--p!
Probably two.

[katty]

5. saw the clip-how is Hillary a liar about this?

[jenmito]

OK-WOLFSON is a liar. He JUST repeated the lie AGAIN!

[DemzRock]

6. A - you need more specifics B - ALL politicians are liars. Even Obama. n/t

[jenmito]

34. The ConConservative party leader just said he regrets the "misinformation." END OF STORY.

[katty]

70. well, that's certainly true

[Coexist]

7. It would be nice if she would now remove that inaccurate bit from her stump speeches

[Hieronymus]

18. Yes, but she won't ... she's desperate. David Geffen was right about how ..

easily the Clintons lie.

[catgirl]

90. Bingo.

Davis Geffen had the courage to go against the Clinton machine back in the
beginning of this campaign. He deserves a standing ovation. I admire that
man.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

30. She should apologize for running with this false story.

Think that will happen? Nope.

[tabasco]

95. She should apologize for calling herself a Democrat

and change parties NOW!

[mmonk]

10. Oh boy. This should get interesting.

[leftofcool]

11. The Canadians want to fire a party?

How does this make Hillary a liar?

[Hepburn]

54. Because....

...in an open session of Parliament, it was ADMITTED that what Hill has been saying NEVER happened. And....after this was said....Hill and her campaign, to wit, Wolfson, keep repeating something which they have been informed by all parties involved did not take place. To me, that is LYING.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftynyc]

26. Hyperbole much?

You sound like you need a rabies shot - this comment shouldn't bother you as you seem to be well versed in over the top rhetoric.

[meow mix]

38. rabies? im immune due to multiple exposures...

not too worried about that one lol

[elixir]

64. YOu have so many official pronouncements, it's hard to keep track. Maybe you should

track down the person who ppd the memo, or the Obama adviser, or even Obama and ask why they're meeting w/ the Canadian govt and for what reason?

[AtomicKitten]

13. Of course she was lying; her lips were moving.

[bluestateguy]

14. I think the damage is probably done

These kind of 9th inning election tricks usually work because you have to cut throught the weeds to get to the facts, by which time it is too late.

[DemzRock]

15. Still waiting for the specifics people.... Not everyone knows wtf you're talking about. n/t

[Hoof Hearted]

16. So Hillary is a Canadian government official? Wwo, you learn something new every day.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[leftofcool]

21. A Canadian Government Spy?

I knew it!

[boston bean]

17. His lying is going to cause an international incident. just what we need! nt

[elixir]

66. Great ad. I hope this one sticks too, it gets to the real difference between the candidates.

[Lucinda]

19. Did MSNBC call her a liar?

[Hepburn]

56. Did they have to?

They played a very clear clip of a session of the Canadian Parliament wherein it was CLEARLY stated that what Hill and her pals are saying is total and complete bullshit and at a great variance with the truth of the matter.

Now...do you call that, HILLARY GETTING CAUGHT TELLING THE TRUTH?

[Lucinda]

65. Yes.

The op says "...member of Parliament calling for the denunciation.." ii doesn't say if that member of Parliament had anything to do with the situation, had any actual knowledge about what had occurred, or if Hillary was actually lying.

[Hepburn]

80. I said I watched what happened in Parliament.....

...the bottom line is that what the Clinton camp has said about Obama and NAFTA did not happen. Now...Hill keeps running her mouth about it and saying that it did whereas everyone who was actually involved says this is NOT true. What would you call that form Hill? Telling the truth?

Gads, the world is upside down to you Clinton lovers.

[Lucinda]

83. So... what was the connection of the person speaking to what happened?

Where they there? Is it their direct experience?
Or are they a politicain using the flap to denounce someone else in their own government?

[meow mix]

22. parliament is calling for the conspirators heads.

as well they should be

[niyad]

23. link please, and some clue for those of us who haven't been online all day

[jenmito]

25. I saw it. They showed the Parliament regretting the lie. Yes, turns out it's FALSE! Yet Wolfson

just came on to REPEAT the lie!

[blocker]

28. Canadians are under a minority government

Just like the Clinton-Obama, in some sort of sily way, they are attacking each other on every stupid little detail!

[carlotta]

29. What are you talking about?

Obama's campaign has now admitted they did meet with the Canadian embassy in Chicago. How does that make Hillary a liar?????

The only question now is whether or not the Canadian official who took extensive notes at the meeting quoted Goolsbee "exactly".

[ContinentalOp]

53. Canadian Consulate

Hence the initial denial from the Canadian Embassy. CTV's original report was totally inaccurate.

And even if the memo doesn't quote Goolsbee exactly, it's hardly the same as the initial claim that "Obama staffer telephones Canadian Ambassador to tell them not to take the campaign at face value."

The stuff quoted in the memo is hardly any different from what Obama says on the campaign trail.

[Hepburn]

61. Ok....let me explain it to you....

...the deal is that the Clinton Camp spewed all the BS about Obama meeting with the Canadians AND saying he was just talking smack about NAFTA. Whether or not the meeting took place ~~ that is totally irrelevant unless the NAFTA statements are true. The ONLY relevant issues were the statements alleged to have been made by Obama. It turns out the Canadians ON THE FLOOR OF PARLIAMENT admitted that the alleged NAFTA statements were NEVER made.

[DemzRock]

31. Sixteen replies so far and no details - this is beginning to look like a Ken Starr lie ABOUT,,,

Hillary.

Do you know how many lies were told against the Clintons in the 90s?

Are you aware that all the scandals that were brought up turned to be lies about the Clintons.

All they ever got Bill on was that he lied about sex. And not even that clearly.

So you guys better give some specifics soon or I will consider you pathological Clinton haters and not rational humans.

Thanks.

[meow mix]

32. it was pretty heated clip, canadian govt going ballistic over the conspiracy

ut oh

[carlotta]

42. Is it the Canadian government or, one member of Parliament?

big difference. Can anyone who saw it clarify?

[blocker]

47. yes you saw the prime minister talk in that exchange!

Harper was talking in that exchange, he's like bush in the states, if that clarifies your question! :)

[mmonk]

39. I believe the OP is new information.

How are we to comment and why do you think the Clintons are victims in all cases?

[ProSense]

35. Good, but realize how crazy it is that Hillary and the media jumped on this story.

The NAFTA issue was given a full hearing in the last debate. Yet the claim is that somehow Obama's position (his oppostion to NAFTA and intention to renegotiate it), which he has held for years, needed to be channeled in secret to the Canadian government.

Obama opposed the Clintons' horrible NAFTA bill, but he isn't opposed to free trade.

RUSSERT: Senator Obama, you did, in 2004, talk to farmers and suggest that NAFTA had been helpful. The Associated Press today ran a story about NAFTA saying that you have been consistently ambivalent towards the issue.

A simple question. Will you as president say to Canada and Mexico, this has not worked for us, we are out?

OBAMA: I will make sure that we renegotiate in the same way that Senator Clinton talked about, and I think actually Senator Clinton's answer on this one is right. I think we should use the hammer of a potential opt-out as leverage to ensure that we actually get labor and environmental standards that are enforced.

And that is not what has been happening so far. That is something that I have been consistent about.

I have to say, Tim, with respect to my position on this, you know, when I ran for the United States Senate, the "Chicago Tribune," which was adamantly pro-NAFTA noted that in their endorsement of me, they were endorsing me despite my strong opposition to NAFTA. And that conversation that I had with the Farm Bureau, I was not ambivalent at all.

What I said was that NAFTA and other trade deals can be beneficial to the United States, because I believe every U.S. worker is as productive as any worker around the world. And we can compete with anybody.

And we can't shy away from globalization. We can't draw a moat around us. But what I did say in that same quote, if you look at it, was that the problem is we've been negotiating just looking at corporate profits and what's good for multinationals, and we haven't been looking at what's good for communities here in Ohio, in my home state of Illinois, and across the country. And as president, what I want to be is an advocate on behalf of workers.

Look, you know, when I go to these plants, I meet people who are proud of their jobs. They are proud of the products that they have created. They have built brands and profits for their companies. And when they see jobs shipped overseas and suddenly they're left not just without a job, but without health care, without a pension, and are having to look for seven-buck-an-hour jobs at the local fast-food joint, that is devastating on them, but it's also devastating on the community.

That's not the way that we're going to prosper as we move forward.

link

[MethuenProgressive]

36. The OP is just gossip.

Shouldn't DUbamas be against gossip?

[JimGinPA]

43. I Saw It Too - They Showed Her Lying First Then Both Reps From Canada Deny It

BUSTED.


:spank:

[MethuenProgressive]

48. he lied, then lied about lying, then said the thing he lied about never happend so his lie is true?

You people are funny.

[Catherina]

37. If this is true, this is bad indeed

A God-fearing Christian woman like Hillary shouldn't be lying.

[anonymous171]

49. Or collaborating with foreign powers against another American

[Maribelle]

46. Not interferring, says Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

"I certainly deny any allegation that this government has attempted to interfere in the American election," he told Parliament.

Canada says didn't misrepresent Obama over NAFTA

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN0338038720080303

[anamandujano]

74. Sounds like they are defending themselves.

They did not try to interfere in our elections.

That's not the same as Obama spokesman assuring them that he will just be talking and not to take it seriously.

There was a memo. They're just mad at the person who leaked it.

[Hepburn]

50. I would agree with that statement, Skinner.

I totally concur in your statement in regard to what was said.

[kiva]

91. Huh?

"I would agree with that statement, Skinner."

[jenmito]

52. And of course CNN is running this debunked story right now, calling it a "yikes moment for Obama."

We should write to CNN (and MSNBC) to tell them it was debunked!

[carlotta]

55. The OP has this all wrong

Canada is NOT saying that the NAFTA story is wrong--they're simply saying that they don't want to sway an American election.

The report was leaked to the U.S. media, prompting some Democrats to accuse Canada's right-leaning Conservative government of trying to interfere in the election -- a charge dismissed by Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

"I certainly deny any allegation that this government has attempted to interfere in the American election," he told Parliament.

"The American people will make the decision as to their next president and I am confident that whoever that person is ... (they) will continue the strong alliance, friendship and partnership that we enjoy with the United States."

The facts remain--Obama and his campaign lied about a meeting in which NAFTA was discussed. And despite Goolsbee's denial about specific words which were taken down in notes, it looks very, very bad.

[AX10]

82. Correct!

[stillcool]

97. Do you have a link?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080303.NAFTA03/TPStory/Nationalhttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080303.NAFTA03/TPStory/National

Harper meddling in U.S. primaries, Democrats say

BRIAN LAGHI

OTTAWA BUREAU CHIEF

March 3, 2008

Two years after U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins was accused of meddling in Canada's federal election, the same is being said of Stephen Harper's Conservatives with respect to the current U.S. contest.

Democrats appearing on a nationwide U.S. political program accused the Harper government yesterday of interfering in the primary campaigns to help the Republican Party candidate in the coming campaign.

"You've got a right-wing government in Canada that is trying to help the Republicans and is out there actively interfering in this campaign," Bob Shrum told the popular program, Meet the Press. Mr. Shrum is a top-level Democrat adviser who has had key roles in the presidential campaigns of Al Gore and John Kerry.

At issue are reports that members of Mr. Harper's prime ministerial office leaked word last week that a member of Barack Obama's campaign told a Canadian diplomat that Mr. Obama was not serious when he raised the possibility of renegotiating the free-trade agreement.


The Globe and Mail

That statement has become fodder for Mr. Obama's opponents, who have accused the Illinois senator of saying one thing to win votes in hard-pressed states such as Ohio, and another to keep the peace with the Canadian government.

ABC News says the leaker was Mr. Harper's chief of staff, Ian Brodie. Mr. Brodie reportedly learned of the conversation -which took place between Mr. Obama's economic adviser and a Canadian diplomat in Chicago - from Michael Wilson, Canada's ambassador to the United States.

One of the talk show's Republican participants, Mary Matalin, used the apparent flip-flop to attack the Democratic candidates - Mr. Obama and Hillary Clinton - who have said they would reopen NAFTA.

"Then he had that Canadian thing where "I'm saying this, but I mean that,' " Ms. Matalin said.

Ms. Matalin is a well-known Republican strategist, having worked for both George Bush Jr. and Sr. and for Vice-President Dick Cheney.

Mr. Obama's team has repeatedly denied that such a conversation took place.

Opposition MPs said it appears obvious to them that the Harper Tories want the Republicans to win and that they have taken steps to help them to do so.

The Harper government may find itself in hot water should the presidential winner be a Democrat, they said.

"This is serious," said Navdeep Baines, the Liberal Party's trade critic.

"If there's a perception there of interference, I think it will definitely put a strain on our relationship in the future."

The brouhaha is somewhat reminiscent of the 2006 election, when Mr. Wilkins lashed back at then-prime-minister Paul Martin for his criticisms of the United States and was criticized for interfering.

For its part, the federal government is saying that there were no calls between itself and any staff members of a campaign team.

The Canadian embassy says on its website that "at no time has any member of a Presidential campaign called the Canadian Ambassador or any official at the Embassy to discuss NAFTA."

Mr. Harper's communications director, Sandra Buckler, said Mr. Brodie also doesn't remember such a conversation.

"Ian Brodie does not recall discussing this matter and at the end of the day Ambassador Wilson issued a statement and we stand by that statement," Ms. Buckler said.

Last week, Mr. Harper said that reopening the NAFTA deal would be a mistake.

As well, Canadian officials have warned that a renegotiation could put the supply of Canadian oil to the United States at stake.

Ms. Matalin used Mr. Harper's remarks yesterday to argue against the idea of reopening the pact.

"Those sands up there have as much oil as Saudi Arabia," she said.

"And Harper and the Trade Minister came out and said, 'You want to opt out? You want to threaten to opt out? Guess what. We'll open up the clause, and we'll renegotiate so you don't get favour - favourability relative to energy trade and I - we'll sell our energy to China.' "

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. So We Have Hard Written Words That Serve As A Record Of The Meeting,

a bunch of rush denials from the parties involved though some past statements are now questionable if not flat out lies, and yet it's Hillary that's lying?

Of course these things have been denied. But that's all he said she said. The only factual information we have is what is typed in the memo, and those words did not make the case sound too good for the Obama camp.

The fact everyone's jumping in so quickly to declare "It's debunked! It's debunked!!" based on he said she said totally expected denials, is to me a huge sign that there is something to this story. You have the actual words, and you have those in the hot seat denying them. I'd say this story is FAR from debunked, and turning it around that Hillary is a liar is beyond ignorant and disingenuous. Other than the lockstepping obama zealots, who do you think you're fooling?

[ContinentalOp]

75. No, you have the actual words which are fairly innocuous,

and then you have the original CTV report which made the insinuation that the Obama campaign called the Canadians to reassure them that the NAFTA speak was just rhetoric not to be taken at face value. Do you really not see the gap between the reality as reported in the memo and the hyped-up insinuations of the original smear story?

[stillcool]

98. Does anybody read anymore?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080303.NAFTA03/TPStory/National

Harper meddling in U.S. primaries, Democrats say

BRIAN LAGHI

OTTAWA BUREAU CHIEF

March 3, 2008

Two years after U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins was accused of meddling in Canada's federal election, the same is being said of Stephen Harper's Conservatives with respect to the current U.S. contest.

Democrats appearing on a nationwide U.S. political program accused the Harper government yesterday of interfering in the primary campaigns to help the Republican Party candidate in the coming campaign.

"You've got a right-wing government in Canada that is trying to help the Republicans and is out there actively interfering in this campaign," Bob Shrum told the popular program, Meet the Press. Mr. Shrum is a top-level Democrat adviser who has had key roles in the presidential campaigns of Al Gore and John Kerry.

At issue are reports that members of Mr. Harper's prime ministerial office leaked word last week that a member of Barack Obama's campaign told a Canadian diplomat that Mr. Obama was not serious when he raised the possibility of renegotiating the free-trade agreement.


The Globe and Mail

That statement has become fodder for Mr. Obama's opponents, who have accused the Illinois senator of saying one thing to win votes in hard-pressed states such as Ohio, and another to keep the peace with the Canadian government.

ABC News says the leaker was Mr. Harper's chief of staff, Ian Brodie. Mr. Brodie reportedly learned of the conversation -which took place between Mr. Obama's economic adviser and a Canadian diplomat in Chicago - from Michael Wilson, Canada's ambassador to the United States.

One of the talk show's Republican participants, Mary Matalin, used the apparent flip-flop to attack the Democratic candidates - Mr. Obama and Hillary Clinton - who have said they would reopen NAFTA.

"Then he had that Canadian thing where "I'm saying this, but I mean that,' " Ms. Matalin said.

Ms. Matalin is a well-known Republican strategist, having worked for both George Bush Jr. and Sr. and for Vice-President Dick Cheney.

Mr. Obama's team has repeatedly denied that such a conversation took place.

Opposition MPs said it appears obvious to them that the Harper Tories want the Republicans to win and that they have taken steps to help them to do so.

The Harper government may find itself in hot water should the presidential winner be a Democrat, they said.

"This is serious," said Navdeep Baines, the Liberal Party's trade critic.

"If there's a perception there of interference, I think it will definitely put a strain on our relationship in the future."

The brouhaha is somewhat reminiscent of the 2006 election, when Mr. Wilkins lashed back at then-prime-minister Paul Martin for his criticisms of the United States and was criticized for interfering.

For its part, the federal government is saying that there were no calls between itself and any staff members of a campaign team.

The Canadian embassy says on its website that "at no time has any member of a Presidential campaign called the Canadian Ambassador or any official at the Embassy to discuss NAFTA."

Mr. Harper's communications director, Sandra Buckler, said Mr. Brodie also doesn't remember such a conversation.

"Ian Brodie does not recall discussing this matter and at the end of the day Ambassador Wilson issued a statement and we stand by that statement," Ms. Buckler said.

Last week, Mr. Harper said that reopening the NAFTA deal would be a mistake.

As well, Canadian officials have warned that a renegotiation could put the supply of Canadian oil to the United States at stake.

Ms. Matalin used Mr. Harper's remarks yesterday to argue against the idea of reopening the pact.

"Those sands up there have as much oil as Saudi Arabia," she said.

"And Harper and the Trade Minister came out and said, 'You want to opt out? You want to threaten to opt out? Guess what. We'll open up the clause, and we'll renegotiate so you don't get favour - favourability relative to energy trade and I - we'll sell our energy to China.' "

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

112. Maybe You Should Answer That Question Yourself.

Can you tell me anywhere in that article it claims the memo was made up? Pointing out who leaked it is irrelevant as it relates to what is contained within it. See, that's what's called an ad hominem attack, and it's generally worthless as it relates to an argument.

I hope that wasn't the best you could do.

[stillcool]

113. Has anyone released the memo?

The memo obtained by the AP was widely distributed within the Canadian government. It is more than 1,300 words and covers many topics that DeMora said were discussed in the Feb. 8 "introductory meeting."

[DemVet]

58. People can't see partisan politics Canadian-style for what it is.

One side trying to use an issue to back-stab another. Anything new here?

[meow mix]

59. so hillary paid ian to "leak" a faulty memo. and the us media picks it up

great

[anamandujano]

78. You'd do well writing fantasy novels.

[apocalypsehow]

60. Yep, I saw it, too. The Clinton campaign was caught red-handed in another big, fat fib.

n/t.

[fishwax]

62. so how is this related to Clinton being a liar?

:shrug:

Or does your subject make two separate and unrelated claims :)

[meow mix]

63. duh who would have arranged (paid) for a faulty lying memo to be leaked

and then spread it in the us media.. someone with a kitchen sink i bet

[Marie26]

67. 1,300 Candian officials recieved that memo.

It's not too surprising that it leaked - it SHOULD have leaked.

[anamandujano]

79. Are you serious? Whoa!

[leftofcool]

68. I hate to tell you this

but I heard about this from my Canadian business partner before it even hit Canadian TV, in fact about 5 days before. That means, no one but Canadians knew anyting about any memo or meeting until it was reported by CTV, except Obama who lied and said there never was a meeting. The memo in question was not leaked as you say, by the Clinton, but it was given to the American Press by CTV. Next piece of bullshit please.

[katty]

71. how does Goolsbee figure into this,, I am confused

about the his role-or was that a meeting only?

[meow mix]

76. "I certainly did not use that phrase in any way," it was a lie, all the way...

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080303/democrats_nafta.html?.v=1

Goolsbee disputed the characterization from the conservative government official.

"This thing about 'it's more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans,' that's this guy's language," Goolsbee said of DeMora. "He's not quoting me.

"I certainly did not use that phrase in any way," he said.

The meeting was first reported last week by Canadian television

[katty]

77. ok thx

[fishwax]

72. Where did Obama say there never was a meeting

except Obama who lied and said there never was a meeting

When did Obama say that? I've seen that claim a lot today, but nobody has ever been able to substantiate it. I've seen Obama's denial of the initial report (which had nothing to do with the meeting) and Goolsbee's denial that he called the Canadian Embassy (which, of course, he didn't), but I've never seen where Obama claimed there wasn't a meeting.

[leftofcool]

73. He said there was no meeting when CTV first reported it.

He flatly denied the entire thing. Go back and read all of the links to this story.

[fishwax]

81. When CTV first reported it, the meeting was not at issue at all

The initial report claimed that a senior Obama official had made private contact with the Canadian Ambassador to reassure him that forthcoming rhetoric about NAFTA would just be hot air. You can watch the original report here: http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02...

Of course Obama (along with the Canadian embassy) denied the story--it was completely false.

Then the story changed. When the story about the meeting at the Chicago consul general broke, the Obama camp did not (as far as I've seen) ever deny, as you claim, that the meeting took place. They do, however, continue to maintain that the representation of Obama's rhetoric, both from the initial story and from the memo, is inaccurate.

[Hepburn]

84. Link?

Or did you hear this from some Canandian cousin, too? :eyes:

[stillcool]

99. ..................

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080303.NAFTA03/TPStory/National

Harper meddling in U.S. primaries, Democrats say

BRIAN LAGHI

OTTAWA BUREAU CHIEF

March 3, 2008

Two years after U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins was accused of meddling in Canada's federal election, the same is being said of Stephen Harper's Conservatives with respect to the current U.S. contest.

Democrats appearing on a nationwide U.S. political program accused the Harper government yesterday of interfering in the primary campaigns to help the Republican Party candidate in the coming campaign.

"You've got a right-wing government in Canada that is trying to help the Republicans and is out there actively interfering in this campaign," Bob Shrum told the popular program, Meet the Press. Mr. Shrum is a top-level Democrat adviser who has had key roles in the presidential campaigns of Al Gore and John Kerry.

At issue are reports that members of Mr. Harper's prime ministerial office leaked word last week that a member of Barack Obama's campaign told a Canadian diplomat that Mr. Obama was not serious when he raised the possibility of renegotiating the free-trade agreement.


The Globe and Mail

That statement has become fodder for Mr. Obama's opponents, who have accused the Illinois senator of saying one thing to win votes in hard-pressed states such as Ohio, and another to keep the peace with the Canadian government.

ABC News says the leaker was Mr. Harper's chief of staff, Ian Brodie. Mr. Brodie reportedly learned of the conversation -which took place between Mr. Obama's economic adviser and a Canadian diplomat in Chicago - from Michael Wilson, Canada's ambassador to the United States.

One of the talk show's Republican participants, Mary Matalin, used the apparent flip-flop to attack the Democratic candidates - Mr. Obama and Hillary Clinton - who have said they would reopen NAFTA.

"Then he had that Canadian thing where "I'm saying this, but I mean that,' " Ms. Matalin said.

Ms. Matalin is a well-known Republican strategist, having worked for both George Bush Jr. and Sr. and for Vice-President Dick Cheney.

Mr. Obama's team has repeatedly denied that such a conversation took place.

Opposition MPs said it appears obvious to them that the Harper Tories want the Republicans to win and that they have taken steps to help them to do so.

The Harper government may find itself in hot water should the presidential winner be a Democrat, they said.

"This is serious," said Navdeep Baines, the Liberal Party's trade critic.

"If there's a perception there of interference, I think it will definitely put a strain on our relationship in the future."

The brouhaha is somewhat reminiscent of the 2006 election, when Mr. Wilkins lashed back at then-prime-minister Paul Martin for his criticisms of the United States and was criticized for interfering.

For its part, the federal government is saying that there were no calls between itself and any staff members of a campaign team.

The Canadian embassy says on its website that "at no time has any member of a Presidential campaign called the Canadian Ambassador or any official at the Embassy to discuss NAFTA."

Mr. Harper's communications director, Sandra Buckler, said Mr. Brodie also doesn't remember such a conversation.

"Ian Brodie does not recall discussing this matter and at the end of the day Ambassador Wilson issued a statement and we stand by that statement," Ms. Buckler said.

Last week, Mr. Harper said that reopening the NAFTA deal would be a mistake.

As well, Canadian officials have warned that a renegotiation could put the supply of Canadian oil to the United States at stake.

Ms. Matalin used Mr. Harper's remarks yesterday to argue against the idea of reopening the pact.

"Those sands up there have as much oil as Saudi Arabia," she said.

"And Harper and the Trade Minister came out and said, 'You want to opt out? You want to threaten to opt out? Guess what. We'll open up the clause, and we'll renegotiate so you don't get favour - favourability relative to energy trade and I - we'll sell our energy to China.' "

[malik flavors]

85. Video: Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLJJ88HTiX8

[Vinca]

86. Apparently Wolf Blitzer hasn't see this. He's orgasmic over the NAFTA story. nt

[Rosa Luxemburg]

87. & Reuters

[psychopomp]

94. That video clip deserves an OP of its own

:bounce: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :bounce:

[TexasObserver]

88. Canadian government calls Obama rep. He responds. Conservatives LIE about it.

Sound familiar? Obama has Bush, McCain, Hillary, and all their sorry friends LYING about him.

It's getting harder and harder to distinguish Hillary from the GOP.

[sueragingroz]

93. You need to know something about the political system

You are talking about Jack Layton, the leader of the NDP in the middle of question period.

Jack will do anything he can to make political hay out of this. Harper will do anything to cover it up because he doesn't want to be seen as interfering.

Both are partisans. It's politics baby!

And yes - Obama is a politician just like everybody else!

[arikara]

96. I have no doubt

that Stephen Harper deliberately set this whole issue up including his wishy washy denial. The Canadian neo-con gov't does not want the NAFTA messed with. Whether or not he's in cahoots with Hillary and/or McCain... who can know, but he is gunning for Obama.

If the neo-cons don't want Obama, that makes him great in my books. Too bad I can't vote in your elections.

[nolabels]

101. Perhaps the kitchen sink smear campaign is starting to takes it's toll

It figures republican-lite type politicians would be engaged in such tactics. It's possible that this kind of tactic might still backfire. Joe Public is lot more aware of how the Clinton team and corporate media outlets have been trying to slime Obama. That good portion of the voting public may already may have also been inoculated and also have decided awhile back. Then they also may not even be getting all their news from traditional sources. This full court press from the over confident but less prepared team may yet fail, it happens all the time in sports.

[krkaufman]

102. Hell, it's not just Hillary.

I watched the ABC News tonight, and they emphasized the memo and its allegations -- and then later mentioned that Canada denounced information as erroneous. If the information was erroneous, according to the supposed source, then why did ABC spin the story as fact?

[AtomicKitten]

103. because Barack is winning & some of the powers that be aren't having it

[krkaufman]

106. Possibly. It's also because the Clinton campaign has done a very good job...

... of painting themselves as victims of the media -- akin to the traditional "liberal bias" cries of the Right -- while at the same time churning-out smears too fast for the media to fact-check in the compressed news cycle. So the media is less likely to criticize Clinton while they themselves are being called biased, and are instead eating-up and spitting-out the smears against Obama.

[AGirl]

104. Here's what happened.

"Here's what happened, based in part on a leaked memorandum obtained by The Associated Press, and on reports from CTV: Early in February, Austan Goolsbee, one of Mr. Obama's senior economic advisers, talked informally with officials at the Canadian consulate in Chicago. A consulate staffer wrote a memo based on the conversation, in which he said Mr. Goolsbee advised the Canadians that “much of the rhetoric that may be perceived to be protectionist is more reflective of political manoeuvring than policy.”


This memo made the rounds, and eventually the gist of the message was communicated to a CTV journalist, who reported that Mr. Obama was saying one thing about NAFTA to voters, but something quite different to the Canadian government.


Mr. Goolsbee insists his comments were taken out of context by the memo writer. The Canadian embassy in Washington strongly denied that there had been any communication between the Obama campaign and the embassy.


When that turned out to be technically, but not substantively, true – the communication was with the Chicago consulate, not the embassy – the embassy yesterday offered an apology, saying that “there was no intention to convey, in any way, that Senator Obama and his campaign team were taking a different position in public from views expressed in private, including about NAFTA. We deeply regret any inference that may have been drawn to that effect.”



End of story? Hardly.



Ms. Clinton said yesterday that she believed the Obama campaign had given the Canadian government “the old wink-wink.”


“I think that's the kind of difference between talk and action that I've been talking about,” she went on. “It raises questions about Senator Obama coming to Ohio and giving speeches against NAFTA.”

Mr. Obama rebutted, while campaigning in Texas: “Nobody reached out to the Canadians to try to assure them of anything.”


Asked why he had appeared to deny a report last week that such a meeting had taken place, Mr. Obama rather weakly replied, “That was the information I had at the time.”


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080304.wPri mary04/BNStory/usElection2008/

[amborin]

105. Hillary told truth....Canada backtracked b/c it was criticized for interfering in US elections

Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth

playing Ohio for fools

new York Times:

Canada scrambled to make a statement today because.....it was criticized for interfering in US elections:

March 3, 2008, 9:04 pm
Blame in Canada
By Ian Austen

OTTAWA — It’s not at all unusual for Stephen Harper, the prime minister of Canada, and the members of his cabinet to grilled by the opposition parties in Parliament. It isn’t common, however for the partisan bickering here to be focused on the Democratic primary in the United States.
On Monday, the fighting over a report that a senior campaign official to Barack Obama had provided back-channel reassurances to the Canadian government on the North American Free Trade Agreement, erupted in Parliament as Mr. Harper fended off allegations that he was interfering in the U.S. elections and trying to undermine Mr. Obama’s campaign.

[AGirl]

107. Also

The campaign and the Canadian Embassy issued denials that were, it appears, technically accurate. But they were incomplete because they did not address Mr. Goolsbee’s meeting with Canadian officials.

When WKYC-TV in Ohio asked Mr. Obama about the CTV report, he said: “I don’t have to clarify it. The Canadian Embassy already clarified it by saying the story was not true. And our office has said the story was not. And so I think it’s important for viewers to understand that it was not true.” When pressed, he said, “It did not happen.”

ABC News then reported that the Nafta conversation involved the Canadian consul general in Chicago, Georges Rioux, not the ambassador. ABC News identified Professor Goolsbee as the official who met the Canadians.

Mr. Burton issued another strong denial, although he declined to respond to a question about Professor Goolsbee’s discussions with Canadian officials.

The spokesman focused instead on the CTV report and attacks from Mrs. Clinton’s campaign based on it.

“Again, this story is not true,” Mr. Burton said. “There was no one at any level of our campaign, at any point, anywhere, who said or otherwise implied Obama was backing away from his consistent position on trade.”

When the memorandum emerged, it confirmed the meeting and that Nafta was discussed.

According to The A.P., the note reads, “On Nafta Goolsbee suggested that Obama is less about fundamentally changing the agreement and more in favor of strengthening/clarifying language on labor mobility and environment and trying to establish these as more ‘core’ principles of the agreement.”

On Monday, Mr. Burton stood by his earlier statements, adding that the policy articulated in the memorandum does not contradict anything that Mr. Obama has said on Nafta in the campaign.

Mr. Obama reiterated that point at a news conference in San Antonio, saying he favors free trade but wants to renegotiate existing agreements to include safeguards for the environment and labor rights.

But in Ohio, his tone has been harsher. In the debate in Cleveland, he agreed with Mrs. Clinton that he would leave Nafta unless it was renegotiated in terms more favorable to American workers. Mrs. Clinton, who has also found herself on the defensive about positive comments she has made about Nafta, has stoked the controversy.

When asked about his past denials, Mr. Obama said he had responded with what he knew.

“That was the information I had at the time,” he said


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/us/politics/04nafta.html

[guyanakoolaid]

108. Thank you for your brilliant catch-phrase

of Obama "Playing Ohio for fools". You even gave it its own thread and everything, how sweet. Has just even the ring of connectability to a larger story to be tantalizing, but ultimately, like the rest of the Clinton campaign, is full of shit. And no doubt the irony is lost on you that the "experience" Hillary touts so highly as First Lady includes the NAFTA agreement that has moved many jobs out of Ohio.

[AGirl]

109. The memo says: “Noting anxiety among many U.S. domestic audiences about the U.S. economic outlook

More on the memo:


The memo says: “Noting anxiety among many U.S. domestic audiences about the U.S. economic outlook, Mr. Goolsbee candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign.”


It went on: “He cautioned that this messaging should not be taken out of context and should be viewed as more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans.”

Mr. Goolsbee disputed the characterization.

“This thing about 'it's more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans,' that's this guy's language,” Mr. Goolsbee said of Mr. DeMora. “He's not quoting me.

“I certainly did not use that phrase in any way,” he said.

NAFTA is widely opposed in economically depressed Ohio, which holds its presidential primary Tuesday and is a battleground between Mr. Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.Ms. Clinton said Monday that Mr. Obama's campaign gave the Canadians “the old wink-wink.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080303.woba ma_canada0303/BNStory/usElection2008/

[guyanakoolaid]

111. and I repeat yet again

if First Lady counts as such great experience, why isn't she taking credit for NAFTA?

[DesEtoiles]

110. Hillary a liar. What a shocker!