My first post. Go Hillary.

[CaliforniaDemocrat]

Hello everyone. I support Hillary Clinton for President along with the vast majority of actual registered Democrats in the state of Texas!

I was reading this board for awhile now and saw that it was loaded with Obama people...so I thought some diversity would be nice.

Anyway, I wanted to know what everyone's thoughts were on non-Democrats taking over the will of Democrats in the Democratic primary? Is it healthy? Should automatic delegates represent the party, or the outsiders?

Thanks!

[quinnox]

1. Welcome to the party!

New Hillary supporters are always nice to have here.

[NewHampster]

2. Welcome

No comment on the truthfulness you ask about.

Go Hillary

[CaliforniaDemocrat]

6. LOL, nice bumper sticker!!

[NewHampster]

48. feel free to borrow it

but it may shorten your life on the DUmp.

[anonymous171]

Welcome to DU!

Democrats are not the only people in this country. Party Affiliation is becoming a thing of the past. Stop it with the "true democrat" bullshit.

That is all. Have a nice day!

[Blue_In_AK]

3. Do you have your asbestos suit on? n/t

[Coexist]

4. Welcome to DU - if you are a Texas Democrat, why your name?

and whats an "automatic delegate"?

[CaliforniaDemocrat]

9. I was just citing poll results in Texas

An automatic delegate is a delegate that is elected by the party (i.e. Congressman, Senators, DNCs). I believe 790 of them are sent to the Democratic convention....Since Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and Deval Patrick will be voting for Obama even though Hillary won their state by 16%...I assume that other automatic delegates should vote with the will of the Democratic party, vs. the will of outsiders and crossover Republicans.

[Coexist]

16. you mean SuperDelegates...

is someone's campaign trying to change the nomenclature?

[femrap]

60. that's what they are really called....automatic

delegates...I think the msm wanted something zippier to call them..like the SuperBowl.

They are automatic because they have already been elected to the Central Committee, or Congress, or Senate or Governor.

Google it if you don't believe. Better yet, a text of Government 101 and 102 could help.

[uppityperson]

62. Google shows me this, which convinced me this term came from Clinton. (oops)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/12/superdelegate-replaced-wi_n_86257.html

And this bit longer article, same article but longer:
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/hillary_adviser_harold_ickes_t.php

Source: Hillary Adviser Harold Ickes Tells Surrogates To Refer To Super-Delegates As "Automatic Delegates"
By Greg Sargent - February 12, 2008, 11:43AM

In a sign that the spin war over the significance of super-delegates is underway in earnest, Harold Ickes told assorted Hillary supporters on a private conference call yesterday that the campaign wants them to start referring to super-delegates as "automatic delegates," according to someone on the call.

The person I spoke to paraphrases Ickes, who is spearheading Hillary's super-delegate hunt, this way: "We're no longer using the phrase super delegates. It creates a wrong impression. They're called automatic delegates. Because that's what they are."

The worry appears to be that the phrase "super-delegates" implies that "they have super-powers or super influence when they don't," the source says, describing Ickes' thinking. In other words, the phrase suggests that they have greater than average clout and that they have the power to overrule the democratic process, giving it the taint of back-room power politics.

The new term "automatic delegates" appears to be ostensibly a reference to the fact that these folks are super-delegates automatically, by virtue of their office or position.

I haven't yet seen any evidence that Hillary surrogates are following Ickes' directive, but if we start hearing the new term, we'll now know why.

[Coexist]

66. no, they are refered to as "unpledged party leader and elected official delegates"

"The formal designation (in Rule 9.A) is "unpledged party leader and elected official delegates".<1> In addition to these unpledged "PLEO" delegates, the state parties choose other unpledged delegates (Rule 9.B) and pledged PLEO delegates (Rule 9.C).<1> This article discusses only the unpledged PLEO delegates."

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/3e5b3bfa1c1718d07f_6rm6bhyc4.pdf - see page 14

Not Automatic.

[NanBo]

86. Really called? Since when? n/t

[uppityperson]

26. If a Super Delegate is elected by the Democratic party, how are they non-Democrats?

I am confused.

[cali]

41. ooh, Orwellian speak. Parroting the hillary made up bullshit.

How... Hillarian. And no, SUPER DELEGATES are not bound to vote for any particular way. And they've been voting with their endorsements for Obama over the past two weeks. Do you really want Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray to switch to Obama? And please, stop the baloney about how Obama doesn't win dem votes. What do you think he won in VA, D.C., MD and WI?

Furthermore, do you know that in some states there is NO party registration? In VT there isn't. Are you actually going to suggest that tomorrow when Obama beats Hill by 25+ pts, it was repukes who put him over the top?

[JackORoses]

49. why do you even pretend to be new to this? you are obviously a card carrying Hillarite.

Automatic delegates, my ass...

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

63. I looked up the term as you suggested. Thanks. Goes straight to Clinton....

THANKS for the great idea of googling the term. Here is what I found:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/hillary_adviser_harold_ickes_t.php
Source: Hillary Adviser Harold Ickes Tells Surrogates To Refer To Super-Delegates As "Automatic Delegates"
By Greg Sargent - February 12, 2008, 11:43AM

In a sign that the spin war over the significance of super-delegates is underway in earnest, Harold Ickes told assorted Hillary supporters on a private conference call yesterday that the campaign wants them to start referring to super-delegates as "automatic delegates," according to someone on the call.

The person I spoke to paraphrases Ickes, who is spearheading Hillary's super-delegate hunt, this way: "We're no longer using the phrase super delegates. It creates a wrong impression. They're called automatic delegates. Because that's what they are."

The worry appears to be that the phrase "super-delegates" implies that "they have super-powers or super influence when they don't," the source says, describing Ickes' thinking. In other words, the phrase suggests that they have greater than average clout and that they have the power to overrule the democratic process, giving it the taint of back-room power politics.

The new term "automatic delegates" appears to be ostensibly a reference to the fact that these folks are super-delegates automatically, by virtue of their office or position. I haven't yet seen any evidence that Hillary surrogates are following Ickes' directive, but if we start hearing the new term, we'll now know why.

[NanBo]

75. Guess we know where this one's from

Thanks for the googlage

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[golddigger]

87. Trash? That's what this hope and unity is? Anger Management

classes are available somewhere near you.

[uppityperson]

89. You seriously think that poster needs anger management classes?

Wow. Aren't you the sensitive one.

[golddigger]

92. Trash, Hillarites, thrown under the rug. Yep, I say this poster has some issues.

[uppityperson]

94. Where is "thrown under the rug"?

Yours is only post I see this. Unless you are following from another thread (I haven't read every other post on DU).

[JackORoses]

97. if you can't see that some of your fellow Hillarites are posting trash, then you are blind

Hope that we can move beyond this. But we can't do that until Hillary admits it is over.

[golddigger]

85. You know they do have anger management classes...n/t

[Hepburn]

80. Ummmmmm.....

...learn the lingo BEFORE discussing things and acting like you have some modicum of knowledge about things (which obviously you don't or you would not in any manner be supporting the Queen), OK?

Your post is off in tone...like someone is supplying you with what to say. You ring wrong to me.

JMHO

[nomorewhopper]

19. Automatic Delegate = Superdelegate inside Hillaryland

nobody except clinton supporters calls them Automatic Delegates, which leads me to believe the OP is working for HRC in some capacity.

Because it's much more palatable to steal "Automatic Delegates" (nobody knows what this term means) than "Superdelegates" (which would cause an uproar because everybody understands the superdelegate thing)

For more info see Hillary's site below:
http://www.delegatehub.com/

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NanBo]

74. Wow n/t

[uppityperson]

65. You could google it too and find the same thing. Like this...

Thanks femrap, for the great "look it up" suggestion!

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/hillary_adviser_harold_ickes_t.php

Source: Hillary Adviser Harold Ickes Tells Surrogates To Refer To Super-Delegates As "Automatic Delegates"
By Greg Sargent - February 12, 2008, 11:43AM

In a sign that the spin war over the significance of super-delegates is underway in earnest, Harold Ickes told assorted Hillary supporters on a private conference call yesterday that the campaign wants them to start referring to super-delegates as "automatic delegates," according to someone on the call.

The person I spoke to paraphrases Ickes, who is spearheading Hillary's super-delegate hunt, this way: "We're no longer using the phrase super delegates. It creates a wrong impression. They're called automatic delegates. Because that's what they are."

The worry appears to be that the phrase "super-delegates" implies that "they have super-powers or super influence when they don't," the source says, describing Ickes' thinking. In other words, the phrase suggests that they have greater than average clout and that they have the power to overrule the democratic process, giving it the taint of back-room power politics.

The new term "automatic delegates" appears to be ostensibly a reference to the fact that these folks are super-delegates automatically, by virtue of their office or position. I haven't yet seen any evidence that Hillary surrogates are following Ickes' directive, but if we start hearing the new term, we'll now know why.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Coexist]

45. Astro-delegate?

[grasswire]

5. a sincere welcome to DU!

Things will settle down soon. Thanks for coming.

[JKaiser]

7. Welcome! Glad to have another Hillary supporter!

[NightWatcher]

8. welcome back to DU

[sniffa]

53. ...

:thumbsup:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

10. My dear CaliforniaDemocrat!

Welcome to DU!

You're really jumping right in, and good for you!

Come play in the Lounge, when the flames get too hot over here!

:hi:

[CaliforniaDemocrat]

32. whats the lounge?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

59. It's one of the big forums, but is non-political...

[soleft]

11. Welcome to DU from an Obama Supporter

:hi:

Do people register as Independents in Texas? If so, either Democrats or Independents, definitely not registered republicans. But I'm open to hear arguements as to why republicans should vote in a democratic primary, and vice versa.

[MoonRiver]

12. Welcome to DU!!

It's pretty tough here right now, but great to have another Hillary fan on board! :hi:

[nonconformist]

13. Welcome to DU! Glad to have you here.

I too am deeply troubled by non-Democrats choosing our Democratic nominee. Their motives are unclear, and they're not people we can count on to be there in the GE. I am strongly in favor of closed primaries ONLY.

[Spider Jerusalem]

14. Just out of curiosity...

where were you in 2004, when Republicans like Theodore Roosevelt III and David Eisenhower came out in support of John Kerry? Your argument is brain-damaged nonsense. You apparently don't want a candidate who'll win the votes of independents and disaffected Republicans, which means you probably like losing elections.

[Maddy McCall]

15. Welcome to DU, CalDem!!

A word of advice....don't let the belligerent assholes here get you down.

Good to have another Hillary supporter on board! :toast:

:bounce: GO HILLARY!!! :bounce:

[snooper2]

17. So where is this list of "actual registered democratIC party members"

who support Hillary in Texas...

please do tell..... pst ( from someone who actually lives in Texas )

[Independent-Voter]

18. I like an optimist. You may want to do some fact-checking

Repubs and Indy's represent less than 6-7% at most of all voters in the Democratic primaries. These voters were available to all candidates.

There are no such things as "automatic candidates" either.

Yes - the Dem primary system needs adjustment. 1/5 of your delegates are Super Delegate insiders. That's nuts, IMO. The proportional voting is great though.

[uppityperson]

20. What "Non-Democrats taking over the will of Democrats in the Democratic primary" do you mean?

can't comment until you explain what you mean. Do you mean Super Delegates for "automatic delegates" or what do you mean? What "outsiders" do SuperDelegates represent? You raise lots of questions over your terminology and this makes it difficult to know how to reply. Clarification please.

[nonconformist]

27. I would imagine that the OP means that registered Democrats are voting for Hillary

And Independents and Republicans voting for Obama are the ones responsible for his lead.

[uppityperson]

34. I don't want to assume anything about the terms, seems a bit confusing in parts as to meaning.

"Should automatic delegates represent the party, or the outsiders?"

[JVS]

21. welcome to ignore

edit: gotta go with the gut

[bicentennial_baby]

22. Never heard of an automatic delegate..

:shrug:

[yourguide]

47. a term HRC made up

in trying to soften the tone of superdelegate.

[bicentennial_baby]

52. Pssst...

*whispers* I know that!!

;)

[yourguide]

58. HAHAHAHAHA -er, sorry.

:rofl:

[ZombieHorde]

23. Welcome to DU!!!

Anyway, I wanted to know what everyone's thoughts were on non-Democrats taking over the will of Democrats in the Democratic primary? Is it healthy? Should automatic delegates represent the party, or the outsiders?

Personally, I think that the Democratic primaries should be open only to registered Democrats and the delegate system should be abolished.

I was reading this board for awhile now and saw that it was loaded with Obama people...so I thought some diversity would be nice.

Diversity is nice.

Thanks!

You are welcome.

p.s. This board has a lot of posters who seem to have the sole intention of causing anger. Each thread has a box with an x in it after the tread name. If you click on this box the thread will go away. This function is very handy for some of the more ridicules threads.

[shayes51]

24. Glad you are here.

[Maribelle]

25. Welcome!

:toast:

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[burythehatchet]

31. no shit n/t

[martymar64]

38. I smell astroturf on this one

A lot of them showing up lately.
Luckily they'll be gone soon enough.

[Hoof Hearted]

44. Hmmmmm stinks of violating DU rules and behaving poorly.

[yourguide]

46. I think I just pointed out 3 interesting things

about the new member's post.

I'm not the only person on this thread who has brought it up either.

[Hoof Hearted]

101. I think your post got deleted, so now maybe you'll go read the rules?

And try to follow them.

[burythehatchet]

29. Nice post, Hillary. Shouldn't you be out campaigning? n/t

[jgraz]

30. Welcome from an Obama supporter. You will be assimilated.

:P

[shaniqua6392]

33. Welcome to DU!!

:hi:

[zabet]

35. Welcome to DU!!!

Please ignore the less gracious
members.

:hi:

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[la la]

37. and a big welcome back to ya'

from an 'older' newbie!

Ignore the bitter, sarcastic posts---those posters are no fun in real life, either!

:hug:

[gateley]

40. Hiya!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

When I first got here, and my candidate was still in the running (:cry:) there DID seem like a lot more Hillary supporters than there are now.

So I know you're presence and support is much appreciated!

[Hoof Hearted]

42. Don't let the haters get you down! And WELCOME :-)

[Lucinda]

50. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[DemGa]

51. Great post CaliforniaDemocrat -- NT

[grantcart]

54. welcome - your gonna need a harder hat lol

[uppityperson]

55. You ask questions, I'd like to talk but you don't respond to requests for clarification.

Hence, I do not think you really want answers or discussion. Or else you assume my requests for clarification are snarking, which they are not. I would like to talk, but you need to clarify first since I have have assuming doesn't work.

"Should automatic delegates represent the party, or the outsiders?" What "Non-Democrats taking over the will of Democrats in the Democratic primary" do you mean? I can't comment until you explain what you mean. Do you mean Super Delegates for "automatic delegates" or what do you mean? What "outsiders" do SuperDelegates represent? If a Super Delegate is elected by the Democratic party, how are they non-Democrats?

You raise lots of questions over your terminology and this makes it difficult to know how to reply. Clarification please.

Unless you really don't want to talk, really don't want anyone to answer your questions or give their opinions.

[niyad]

56. welcome to DU--and here is your flame suit.

[donheld]

57. Welcome To Du

:hi: Obama supporter here.

[DesertRat]

67. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[TK421]

68. Welcome to DU !

I find myself torn between the two choices still, so I would welcome any input you have to offer here

[rodeodance]

69. REC

[rodeodance]

70. Welcome

[Beacool]

71. Welcome!!!

We sorely need more Clinton supporters on this board. Though I hope that you don't get too bruised for yours efforts. LOL!!!

:hi:

[rodeodance]

72. ~ALL FIRED-UP FOR THE LADY~~YES SHE WILL~YES WE WILL~

[bridgit]

73. Welcome to DU, CaliforniaDemocrat...

:toast:

"...thoughts were on non-Democrats taking over the will of Democrats in the Democratic primary? Is it healthy?" Well, no, it's not healthy.

[RiverStone]

76. Welcome to DU....and

...as far as your question goes. We should be thrilled lots of indies and a few pukes are moving our direction - we are not moving to them. Obama has a great ability to INclude.

So inclusiveness is a good thing.

And besides, IMO, Hillary is too polarizing to win the GE anyway - it's either Obama or McCain. I know too mnay Dems who would not ever vote for her (tho she has my vote if she is the nominee).

Again - glad your here on DU! :hi:

[blm]

77. Did it bother you that non Democrats GROOMED Clintons' political careers and

even bankrolled Bill's primary campaign just to have a Dem in the WH protecting the secrecy and privilege of GHWBush and his cronies after the BCCI report was released?

[Hepburn]

78. WTF is an "automatic delegate"?

Is this some kind of Hillary-speak which you have adopted?

[uppityperson]

82. I googled like suggested. Clinton-speak indeed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4863168&mesg_id=4864630

[Raffi Ella]

81. hi, Welcome.

:)

Great question.


I think caucus's should go away and that primaries should be closed to outsiders,period.Indies and Republicans can show their support after WE pick Our Nominee.If they then vote for OUR nominee in the general that's terrific but ONLY THEN should their opinions of OUR Nominee matter.

[JoFerret]

83. It bothers me

And I don't think anything of those who say it bodes well in the GE. There is no evidence for that.
Dems need a dem candidate chosen by dems.

[uppityperson]

84. Can ANYONE here answer me, serious questions...

What does "non-Democrats taking over the will of Democrats in the Democratic primary?" mean?

Aren't Super Delegates elected by Democratic party? Who does this question mean about outsiders? "Should automatic delegates represent the party, or the outsiders?"

Seriously, I want to know what these phrases mean. Some have snarked here, some say "no way do I want that" and I really don't know what they mean. Explain it to me like I don't understand. Please.

[NewHampster]

91. I think it means

Open primaries that allow republicans to vote in the democratic primary. Texas for example.

The repubs vote for ZObama to get rid of Hill. Then they vote for McCain in the fall.

[uppityperson]

93. I am torn on the primary issue.

On the 1 hand, I can see why only members of a party should chose whom represents that party. On the other hand, I would like a double vote sort of thing, vote once to narrow field, then vote again. But that's just me.

What gets my goat is that as an independent, I cannot morally vote in Dem primary without declaring myself a Dem. I hate that since I feel I have little input into whom candidates are since, realistically, there are only 2 parties with any sort of viable candidates for pres. So, I guess that just because I have always voted for the Dem candidate, I am not allowed any choice in whom that candidate is.

It goes the other way also, Dems voting in Repub primaries for the weakest candidate.

[NewHampster]

95. But don't you think that Dems are a tad more

trust worthy when it comes to voting just to try and sway the other parties primary?

[uppityperson]

96. Nope.

[sueragingroz]

88. welcome aboard!

It's not healthy. The party nominee should be decided by the party. The liberal bent toward inclusiveness may end up being the party's undoing in the end.

This is how it happened in Canada in 2006 for the Liberal Party: (from wiki)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Canada_leadership_convention,_2006

The date and rules of the convention were decided upon by the Liberal Party National Executive during its meeting on March 18–March 19, 2006.<1>

The party constitution required that a convention be held within a year of the leader's resignation and that the party's biennial convention be held by March 2007. The leadership convention also served as the party's regular policy convention, so there was debate and voting on policy resolutions and an election for the party's executive.

Selection of delegates by riding associations and party clubs occurred on the weekend of September 29 to October 1. Only those who have purchased or renewed their party membership by July 4, 2006 were be eligible to vote. Approximately 850 ex-officio delegates who automatically gained the right to attend the convention by virtue of being a Liberal Member of Parliament, recent candidate, Senator, etc. The Liberal Aboriginal Peoples’ Commission was entitled to send a delegation that is in proportion to the percentage of the Canadian population that is Aboriginal. All delegates except those with ex-officio status and those who won election as independent delegates were bound to a particular candidate on the first ballot, however all delegates were free to vote as they wished on subsequent ballots.

Each candidate had to gather the signatures of at least 300 Liberal Party members, including at least 100 in each of three provinces or territories, and pay a $50,000 fee to enter the contest (down from $75,000 at the previous convention). The spending limit for each campaign was set at $3.4 million, down from $4 million. All of the first $500,000 raised by each candidate was kept by the candidate's campaign, and any amount raised above that figure was subject to a 20% levy by the party. In contrast to the previous campaign when the sale of party memberships was severely restricted, the executive decided to allow party membership to be purchased online.

The Convention Organization Committee, and the convention proceedings were co-chaired by Dominic LeBlanc and Tanya Kappo. Steven MacKinnon, National Director of the party, was the General Secretary of the convention. <5>

The deadline for candidates to enter the race was September 30.<2>

The voting was done in two stages on the ballot:

The top part of the ballot listed the names of each of the leadership candidates; party members could vote for a candidate or remain undeclared.
The second part of the ballot listed names of prospective delegates who were standing on behalf of the various leadership candidates.
Riding associations had fourteen delegate positions: four men, four women, two seniors (over age 65) and four youths (under 26).
Women's clubs had two delegate position each.
Youth clubs and seniors' clubs each had four delegates, of which two were male and two were female.
Ex-officio delegates could automatically attend and vote at the convention without the requirement of getting elected. Ex-officio delegates included MPs, Senators, riding association Presidents, immediate past candidates, and a certain number of party executive members and members of the executive of various Liberal Party Commissions (such as the national youth commission, national women's commission, national Aboriginal commission etc) and provincial sections of the federal party as laid out in Section 16(13) of the party constitution.

At the convention, the first ballot by elected delegates was pre-set according by proportional representation according to the amount of support each leadership candidate received at the delegate selection meeting (i.e., the "leadership portion" of the ballot cast at riding association or club meetings), even if the delegate has personally expressed support for another candidate. Ex-officio and undeclared delegates could vote however they wish, while declared delegates were compelled to vote for their declared candidate, their only other choice being to abstain from voting on the first round. dec On the second ballot (which occurred because no leadership candidate received over 50% of the vote on the first ballot), all delegates were free to vote according to their personal preference.<3>

And just because I'm happy to see you, here's a bonus video for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiUSwIxlMk8

:hug:

[golddigger]

90. Welcome to DU!

[barbtries]

98. i think they should represent the people

iow, the party.

welcome to DU

[Qanisqineq]

99. Welcome to DU!

Don't let the current fighting drive you away, it should get better after the primaries. I hope.

[gristy]

100. LOL!!!!!!

So, am I supposed to take your implicit assertion as fact?

non-Democrats taking over the will of Democrats in the Democratic primary

Inquiring minds want to know!!!! :bounce:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

102. Welcome! Glad To Have An Additional Voice On The Thinking Side LOL

Seriously, glad to have ya.

:toast:

[judaspriestess]

103. Yay!! Go Spurs Go (lol, I couldn't help myself)

and just about every single DEM I have met in Nevada whole heartedly supports Clinton. Go Hillary kick some ATH!!!

[InvisibleTouch]

104. Welcome aboard!

Don't know about Texas, but I'll be voting for Hillary in Ohio tomorrow. :)