what I think is tearing this party apart...

[yourguide]

No, it's not Hillary and no it's not Barack. It's the inability of the old guard to let go of the torch.

Let's be honest, it's pretty fair to say the people of this country are pretty fed up with politics as usual, it's why Obama's message has not only resonated with many democrats but with independents and some republicans as well. And before I hear any garbage about not wanting the republicans along for the ride, what do you think has been going on for the past 7 years? Have the Republicans been working with the Democrats? No, it's been all their way and they have screwed this country all to hell. What prevented Bill Clinton from getting some of his agenda through? A republican congress. So don't you guys think it might be a good idea to have some of these guys along for the ride? Some of these folks who might put pressure on their own local republicans to help our presidential candidate that they LIKE.

Then you have Hillary talking and stumping about change, and then pulling the same old dirty politics that the American people, on both sides of the aisle are absolutely sick of.

So the question is, is it Obama you HRC supporters hate so much or is it any candidate that threatens the Democratic establishment? The American people in general are sick to death of the political establishment, both congress' and the president's approval ratings are at an all time low. So what do you want at the end of the day, to stand on tradition, or to stand on inclusiveness and what we believe in, and honestly something as simple as our sense of fairness?

The American people are speaking and voting in droves looking for this change, looking for an alternative to the current political establishment and many many voters, many new to the political system seem to be excited about the new fresh face. Some of the old guard recognize that it's wise to welcome these new folks into the fold and recognize yes, it might be time to pass the torch to another member of the team. Then some, some just will not let go.

They grip that torch as if it's their right, and holding it so tightly they seem to be burning the same members of the team in an effort to hold it for themselves at any cost. And anyone else on the same team that might need to take the torch for a while to move the team forward, well it's pretty much screw them, I am going to win this for the team even if I am not the better athlete this year.

Pay attention DUers, I am tired of the old guard telling those of us to support Obama to "come home", we ARE home. The only thing constant in both life and politics is change, and whether you like it or not the face of the democratic party is changing, it wants to move forward, it's tired of old school dirty tricks, tired of infighting, and bickering, and tearing the same members of our own team apart for their own personal gain.

So think about it, look at the political landscape, it's changing, the face of this party is changing and many of us feel that this IS home. We want to be inspired, we want to be excited, we want to believe things can change and be better, and yes we know it wont be easy but many of us believe it will be easier if you have a leader and a uniter and not a fighter.

The sad thing is, I want to respect our party elders, that is also part of passing the torch, showing that respect, but when some of the party elders behave no better than the party we are fighting against well how do you expect us to feel? You tear down the candidate we are excited about then expect us to speak highly of the elder that is participating in poor behavior as well? Why do you think some of the Obama supporters are angry? Just because?

Open your eyes, the party is changing, not it's beliefs but the way we want to do business in the future. Let go of the torch if it's time, and right now based on the delegate count it looks like it will soon be time. Let it go, let someone else on the team win if that's the way it looks like it's going. If you keep gripping it and jerking it away with some sense of entitlement you could indeed burn the whole house down.


Flame on if you must.

[anonymous171]

1. Fantastic

Pay attention DUers, I am tired of the old guard telling those of us to support Obama to "come home", we ARE home. The only thing constant in both life and politics is change, and whether you like it or not the face of the democratic party is changing, it wants to move forward, it's tired of old school dirty tricks, tired of infighting, and bickering, and tearing the same members of our own team apart for your own personal gain.

Good observation!

[Birthmark]

2. No

You're wrong. I simply think that Obama is a hack with above average oratorical skill.

I've never been a supporter of the Clintons (except during that Impeachment farce). And I am not a fan now.

[msmcghee]

3. What I think is tearing this party apart . .

. . is folks like you dividing us into factions such as "old guards" vs the new "real Dems" of the future.

How about there's just a lot of Dems with a lot of ideas and let's just debate the ideas without separating us into "us vs them" factions at each others' throats.

[yourguide]

5. Have you been on this board at all lately???

It's all been us vs. them, that's ALL this board has been lately.

I have voted dem for 20 years and for Kucinich in the 2004 primary but I cant tell you how many times I have been called a newbie by HRC supporters, a commie, a troll, and a republican multiple times - all because I had something to say about HRC that that supporter didnt like.

Sorry, I dont find that to be an inclusive kumbaya democratic party.

[msmcghee]

12. I sympathise with you for that.

Most of the posts these days are retaliation that further try to delegitimize one's opponents (and their supporters) as Dems worthy of inclusion.

This has to stop before too many of us are damaged enough to stay home or vote for McCain out of spite if their candidate loses.

The mildest reaction could be simply to lose interest in Dem causes and values. Politics hurts when your candidate loses. The hurt doesn't have to come from other Dems. We can love (Obama/Clinton) without hating (Clinto/Obama) and their supporters.

Sorry if I reacted too strongly but please don't divide and set us against each other.

[yourguide]

14. I think calling fellow dems

republicans, has already divided us and set us against one another. Let's be fair here, even HRC compared Obama to Bush. Things like that, divisive politics, are putting us against one another.

[msmcghee]

15. I heard that but haven't seen any transcript.

Do you have a link?

[yourguide]

16. here's an article

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/clinton_obama_is_untested_just.html

looking for the transcript but she even busts out "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice..."

[msmcghee]

22. She didn't call him a Republican.

She said he was using similar tactics to Republicans. She backed that up with examples. There was no deception or innuendo involved with that. You have to expect the candidates to point those things out. That's politics. Calling someone a racist by innuendo is over the line.

But whatever. I realize it's gone way past the point of return.

I still refuse to hate fellow Dems just because they hate HRC.

[yourguide]

25. but is it really fair to even compare another dem

to a republican...especially THAT republican who might be the worst president ever. I think nixon was pretty lousy too by the way.

[msmcghee]

31. It's fair IMO if . .

. . there's a reasonable case for it.

[yourguide]

32. and do you feel there is a reasonable case for it?

I certainly dont. It would be like comparing HRC to Bush because they both got us into Iraq. It's an unfair comparison, especially from a fellow dem.

[Guava Jelly]

4. I agree!

We evolve or we die.
Evolving doesn't mean giving up your ideals or compromising on your principles.

[JVS]

6. Time to clean house

[BeyondGeography]

7. K&R for thoughtfulness

The establishment asks only if it can win, not why it should.

[Bread and Circus]

8. No flame. If you can't see that Clinton is playing her role in making things worse...

then you are a very forgiving person.

[yourguide]

10. I see it, and she is the main offender that is

gripping this torch as if it's hers and hers alone....

[DJ13]

9. I agree, but I would replace "old guard" with Corporatists

The old guard has too long been sucking up to the tit of their corporate masters.

They pushed Bush over Gore, they paid for both the Swiftboaters and Ohio's AG to rig an election in 04, and now that their easy ride from our recurring bubble economy is coming undone they are desperate to maintain power.

To them Hillary is their best hope, as Bill was very (too much) pro big business, but they will accept McCain as a distant second choice.

They are pulling out all the stops through their ownership of our corporate MSM now that Hillary is in mortal danger of being forced out of the race because they are scared shitless of an Obama Presidency.

[msmcghee]

13. Stop it.

Corporations provide products, services and jobs and they do it way more efficiently and fairly than any state run economy. Corporations are run by people, many of them good Dems, who have families and who are just like you and me.

Stop separating Americans into groups at each others' throats. Get off your tribal horse and think inclusion. Many of those Americans are Dems and share your (our) values.

[Bread and Circus]

17. Do you know what the definition of fascism is?

[Recursion]

21. Wow

I think the people can rest their case

[msmcghee]

28. While I'm on my rant . .

. . I'm really getting sick of this crap.

For the record, there are many good and decent Americans who . .

a) own and run corporations,

b) drive SUV's and pickup trucks,

c) hunt birds, deer and other game,

d) own firearms,

e) are in the military and have military careers,

f) eat meat and beef products,

g) go to church and believe in some God, (For the record I'm an atheist.)

h) are in public service as part of some political party (even many Republicans),

i) invest in the stock market

j) are opposed to abortion (but do not want to deny the right to others)

k) live in the South and speak with a drawl

l) have a lot of money

m) haven't got much money (like me)

n) listen to country music (I do bluegrass which is just old country)

o) love the idea of America as a free country that tries to give a chance to everyone - even though we often fall short

p) are bureaucrats

(Add your favorites to the list.)



One thing progressives seem to be really good at is irrationally hating people who are different from them in some way. Kind of shows the ultimate hypocrisy of those who claim that their values are based on tolerance, doesn't it?

It's a big country folks - hating everyone who doesn't think and act and look exactly like you doesn't make it a better country - it just makes it an uglier one.

[Armstead]

11. Good post

[depakid]

18. So who is "the old guard?"

and who (or what) should "the torch" be passed to?

Seems pretty ill defined....

[yourguide]

19. The old guard

are those who are defending the culture of politics as usual and fighting the way the party is changing.

the torch will be passed to whomever the voters decide, and right now the voters seem to be making it known the direction they want to see the party heading.

[depakid]

33. Well, that begs some other questions

"what is politics as usual?"

and "what is the direction they want to see the party headed?"

[dflprincess]

20. Hey this member of the "old guard" will be happy to let go

just as soon as I find someone from the "new guard" who wants to spend 6 hours organizing and typing the resolutions document (and getting 500 copies made) so it's ready for the district convention. Or when someone from the new guard wants help with any of the work necessary for getting the convention pulled together.

I saw a lot of new faces at the cauuses and they were willing to complain that things weren't well organized but when it comes to getting things ready for the next convention, I'm seeing the same old faces.

[yourguide]

24. Well, here's the question

have you guys tried to involve any of these new faces in this effort or are you just assuming they will come to you?

[dflprincess]

34. At the caucuses we asked for voluteers for the various convention committees

along with describing what the committees do and pointing out that the more volunteers we have the happier we'd be because it makes for less owrk for all of us.

It will be very interesting at the district convention to see how many want to run for the district central committee. Four years ago there was a group of new attendees who were hot to get rid of anyone who had ever caucused before and were running for every district office. Quite a few of them did get elected to positions - and in less than a year we were filling the vacancies they left when they resigned. Keeping the local party unit running between elections is not exciting work - but it needs to be done.

[bigtree]

23. our party isn't being 'torn apart'

[goodgd_yall]

27. Exactly what I was going to post

It's primary season, for godsakes, some democrats want Hillary and some want Obama. How did we get from "disagreement," albeit sometimes passionately, to "torn apart"? :shrug:

[Medusa]

26. Bravo. I've not been able to state it as well as the OP

but I've noticed the sheer bitterness that self-described "old-timers" have had for the "new people". WTF? I've seen people here claim that if they and those like them weren't involved in running the primaries or the GE or caucuses that "nothing would get done". Bitter much? Yes, I think so. We should be openly embracing newcomers to our party, young people getting involved in their first election and not being so angry and dismissive of them. And some of these people aren't even old-they've either not been actively involved before or apathetic. And we want to shut them up and make them go away? Isn't this what we've been complaining about for 8 years--trying to get people to wake up? So now they're awake and they're here and you want them to STFU? What kind of insanity exactly is that about? :eyes:

[seaglass]

29. How is the party changing? Please describe the way it is

"changing the way we want to do business in the future." It makes absolutely no sense to me.

[yourguide]

30. I'm going out for a drink

and to play pinball with my dear BF, maybe I'll come back and even 2 DUers will be singing kumbaya when I get return.


xoxoxox