What would happen to a member on DU if they endorsed McCain over Obama?

[closeupready]

Yep. Exactly. That's how it makes Hillary look.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Hepburn]

2. IMO, anything Hillary needs to be tombstoned out of DU.

IMO, she is nothing more and nothing less than Repuke Lite.

JMHO

[papau]

13. exactly how I feel about Obama - but add he is a liar and untrustworthy after NAFTA/Canada memo

[Deep13]

31. Right, if you can't win by reason, just censor any dissent.

I think you are in the wrong party.

[liberalnurse]

3. Hillary Clinton is not a DU member....

So, get with the program...Obamarites will discard you for being well....you.

[LoZoccolo]

8. She's not much of a Democrat, either. n/t

[SoFlaJet]

4. a lot of us here think she really fucked up with that one

and is about to pay a big price for it through a mass exodus of super delegates signing on with Obama starting tomorrow-what do the Clinton supporters have to say about this insurrection?

[whatchamacallit]

6. Pretty much every DUer who won't vote for Obama in the GE *is* endorsing McCain

I'm shocked how many people here think Obama has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. They would rather throw themselves into a spike filled pit than vote for him. Wonder what's really driving their fear and loathing...

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. Show me the quote. It never happened. This is a repugnant smear

It's like the old nazi theory of the "Big Lie". You think if you keep repeating it people will believe it. And it is just as morally and intelectually dishonest of you to be pushing it as any Republican "Big Lie" I have ever seen.

Words have meaning. Words have power. Obama reminds us of that all the time. So show me the words. Show me Clinton endorsing McCain over Obama. It is not a complex word to understand. This is a political message board. I think we all know what "endorse" means. So where did Clinton say it?

[closeupready]

10. The video on the front page.

n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. Exactly. I already watched it. I repeat: Show me the quote

Where does Clinton endorse McCain? This shouldn't be hard for you. You made the accusation. So back it up. You can't because she didn't.

[closeupready]

15. She said that the Republican challenger was more experienced than

her Democratic colleague. Did she not?

No, that's not strictly an endorsement, but how would YOU characterize that?

[Tom Rinaldo]

26. As a fact, which is a much higher standard for truth telling than your OP

Not only did Clinton not endorse McCain, She never even said McCain was qualified to be dogcatcher, let alone President. She stated he is a seasoned veteran in politics.

This is an electability argument, nothing more, nothing less. The correct comparison she was making is between rookies and veterans. Her facts are accurate. Obama is new to the national/international scene in politics - he has been around it for 3 years. Clinton has minimally been around it for 15 years and McCain longer.

The argument Clinton poses is that voters will feel more comfortable voting for another political veteran against McCain, rather than turning to a big leagues political rookie in the Fall.

Watch it again. I dare anyone to find a single comment Clinton made saying she preferred McCain over Obama. She said he was more experienced. Experience is a legitimate factor. Neither you nor I would likely choose a brain surgeon with little experiene operating, over one who had many years of prior experience if that was the basis presented for the choice. But if you found out that the "pro" was also a speed freak, you would not consider him or her more "qualified". In virtual every field where great skill is needed to perform well, people think of experience as an advantage to have, one Obama will never come close to matching up against McCain on.

[KimberleeJean]

29. I agree

That's how I took it, too. She was saying that she's a better matchup against McCain than Obama is, not that McCain is better than Obama.


I've said before, this isn't a Girl Scout Jambouree, it's an election. I really don't get why she's getting called out for highlighting why she feels she's better in the GE than Obama.

New day, new selective outrage, I guess.

[Liberal Dose]

32. McCain's campaign is poised to use this footage over and over in ads. Do you think they are cheering

over it because Hillary did not sound like she was endorsing McCain over Obama?

[Tom Rinaldo]

34. If inexperience is a serious liability than maybe Obama should not have run

Or maybe he should be defeated in the primaries. Facts are facts. Either they can be dealt with or not. I can show you posts I made here two years ago that stated my concern over how the Republicans will attack Obama if he becomes our nominee. These aren't state secrets. The Republicans don't need Hillary to point that out to them. This is as obvious a line of attack against Obama as the equation 2 + 2 = 4.

Let's take your scenario, Let's say Obama wins the nomination and the Republicans use that quote. Is there anything shocking in it? No. They don't need Clinton to raise the issue and Clinton never said McCain would make a better President than Obama. It's not like McCain needs Hillary to tell the public for him that he has been around for a long time.

Hillary would pivot and say it was always obvious that the Republicans would try to make the 2008 election into an argument over who was more experienced, since objectively McCain has the years under his belt to score well on that criteria. She was only predicting to Democrat voting in the primary how Obama's resume would be used against him, and she was right. But experience isn't everything. Dick Cheney had plenty of experience, and the speech Obama gave showed superior judgment. She will say Obama has the right plans for the future, and that's what counts.

The ad you fear would be a small blip lost in the noise of the whole campaign. The Republicans plan to hammer Obama non stop on experience. That was always their plan. Obama has to counter it, not complain about the line of attack.

[Liberal Dose]

36. The reason they are cheering the footage is because it shows that Hillary prefers McCain to Obama.

She didn't have to mention McCain's name at all. It's not about the experience at all.

Edited to add: Now all you have to do is convince all of America what she really meant by what she said.

[Tom Rinaldo]

37. Except that is a lie

It shows nothing of the sort.

[Liberal Dose]

38. It's not a lie. There are more voters in America than just all of us here at DU. If it doesn't look

bad, why all the flap? It's not the first time Hillary has said Barack is inexperienced.

[Tom Rinaldo]

40. The "flap" is being generated by the anti-Clinton camp

I would say out of desperation to change the subject off of Canada and NAFTA, but the Obama campaign seems to have taken out a protected trademark on the use of the word "desperate".

[BuyingThyme]

41. Was she endorsing herself?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. But Hillary Did No Such Thing, So Your Rhetorical Question Is Worthless.

Now, try being a bit less disingenuous, and instead ask "what would happen to a member of DU if they said Hillary and McCain have more experience than Obama?"

Answer? Absolutely nothing.

[closeupready]

12. The video on the front page.

And you are 100% WRONG that there would be no absolutely no consequences for someone here to make the claim that a leading Democratic contender was less capable than the Republican challenger. You would be, at a minimum, called out for it. Maybe tombstoned, as well.

[papau]

14. Hillary gave a statement of fact about military ability - not an endorsement

[closeupready]

16. She said that McCain was more experienced than Obama, did she not?

Not strictly an endorsement, no. But what would you call that?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. I'd Call It, Ummmmm, Telling The Truth And Stuff.

McCain does have more foreign policy experience than Obama.

Now granted, Obama would make a far better President ten times over, but the statement is still true regardless.

[JimGinPA]

17. What "Military Ability" Does She Have?

She said "lifetime of experience", of which she has far less than McCain. It was a very stupid thing for her to say.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. Nope. I'm 100% Right.

She didn't endorse him whatsoever. Furthermore, there's not a single administrative consequence that would occur by saying that Hillary and McCain both have more experience than Obama.

Fuck it. I'll say it right now: Hillary and McCain both have more foreign policy experience than Obama. :hi:

[closeupready]

24. LOL Well, of course, YOU can say that. I can say that. We're essentially nobodies.

But for HER to say that, do you not have any objection to that? I mean, how is what she said in that video not objectionable to those who claim to be Democrats?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. Oh My God Do You Change Your Position Quickly. How Strange.

So you go from being dramatic enough to think someone could be tombstoned for it, straight to "oh it's a perfectly fine statement to be said here by posters since we're nobodies. No harm in sayin it here!" after I call you out for the ridiculousness?

Holy friggin cow, how quick ya backed off of that stupidity.

And no. I have no objection to her having said it in the context in which she did. In fact, it was a pretty effective statement. This is politics. This is a campaign. Wake up.

[NJmaverick]

18. Yeah that pretty much says it all

No way any true DUer can defend or support her after that remark.

[flyarm]

30. i call bullshit on Your opinion..opinions are like assholes..everyone has one! eom

[NJmaverick]

42. That would explain your opinion then

wouldn't it?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. BAHHHHHHH ROARRRRRRR SNARFFFFF GARBLE GARBLE ROARRRRRR!!!!!!

[Apollo11]

19. Or even if someone accused them of endorsing McCain?

[LizW]

22. Nothing, for now.

There are at least ten posts on DU right now that I have seen (and I have not by any means read every post in GDP), where people say they will not vote for Hillary if she is the nominee. As we have long been told here, not voting for the nominee = voting for the Republican. Nothing is happening to those Duers. They are allowed to stay here and keep posting.

And, by the way, Hillary did not "endorse" McCain. Saying she did is a willful and knowing lie.

[LeftCoast]

23. Considering the spin and lies about this you guys must have nothing substantive to run on.

Sad.

[leftstreet]

27. Skinner would make them eat lead paint - it's in the rules

:P

[quiet.american]

28. Good point -- and Hillary certainly did herself no favors with that remark.

Firstly, it's a curiosity to me that she keeps trumping her "experience" over Obama's. Has anyone asked her exactly what vast experience she has, in elected office, over Obama?

Secondly, what was she thinking? McCain can now play clips of her statement over and over again in support of his candidacy regardless of whether he ends up running against Obama or her.

Thirdly, she has really turned me off with her sarcastic, sour grapes approach this last month. Do I really want to spend the next four years with someone as president whose main message seems to be, "Abandon hope all ye who enter here... it's not okay to smile... the system is what it is and it can't be changed... I'll make a real difference and the way you'll know it's different is that I'll tell you it's a real difference...."

Not confidence-inspiring, to say the least.

[greguganus]

33. Maybe she's looking for a VP spot in a McLame presidency. n/t

[Liberal Dose]

35. This was my first thought when I saw the video. I don't know how Hillary supporters can think she

was right to say that. Why bother saying McCain's name at all? I don't understand Hillary's reasoning, but I'm sure someone will ask her to explain. Will be interesting to hear the answer.