My email exchange with my fact-challenged brother-in-law re: Obama. The wingnuts are scared

[ProfessorPlum]

Oy vey. Got this note from my brother in law yesterday:

Subject: Have you seen these allegations!?

If even a scintilla of this is true, I think Boy Wonder is about to flame out. I saw that the guy who did the Utube video has filed an injunction in US court in MN to end the harassment by the Obama campain.

It’s amusing to me that the NYT will publish that drivel about McCain with no one on the record and no proof, but this story has been looming since the fall and it has not even been rumored in the main stream press. I think the lid is about to blow.

Thoughts?

http://blogs4brownback.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/barack-obama-is-a-homosexual-crackhead/

PS. Watch the uTube video.

To which I replied:

Well, my thoughts are that if Obama gets to the White House, we’d better hope he stays off the crack. But really, I don’t think the odds of that happening are very high anyway. The powers-that-be haven’t built their huge, illegal, domestic spying apparatus so that they could hand the headphones over to a president Obama. He’ll be stopped, whether it requires lying about his religion and patriotism, voter suppression, election theft, whatever. Even if he does get into office, watch for Congress to suddenly “remember” that they have the power to impeach, and if he gets through that then of course there is the solution for all the other charismatic, progressive leaders like JFK, RFK, MLK, and in all likelihood Paul Wellstone.

I then got a surprisingly swift reply:

To be honest, and as you know I would never vote for him, but if he got elected I would be mildly supportive to see if he could pull of the stuff he claims.

That was before I started digging into his past.

I'm not overly troubled by the sex stuff, frankly, but if he is sucking the glass dick instead of just the real one, I can't even imagine that in the white house...especially considering that he'll have his hand on the button.

That story is so salacious that when it gets into the main stream press, he'll be done. I imagine that assasins on both sides of the isle are looking into the claims, and if true, we'll be reading it in the paper. I fully expect that to happen after he gets the nomination, although you would think HRC operatives would get it out sooner than later.

All that aside, as I think there is a hug question mark that it's true, is the other things that don't add up to me.

Most liberal guy in the senate and one who has a record of division rather that the unity message he constantly promotes.

And then there is the troublesome issue of him being mentored by his marxist Uncle in Kenya...who knows what impact this will have on foreign and domestic policy.

Finally, he just doesn't strike me as being American. He grew up mostly outside the US. How could he possibly identify with little league practice, BBQs and ford driving Bubbas that make up most the the county?

I believe that there will be some buyers remorse once this stuff starts getting pointed out.

The points you raise could be true, but I'd like to believe that America could elect a Black President, provided he's not a communist crack head.

Thoughts? BTW, one of the reasons I would not be upset if he got elected is that we could finally put this race division stuff behind us. If he could get elected, anyone can, so stop bitching about how "the man" keeps you down.

To which I replied:

Wow, that is a load of right wing hysteria/bullshit you've got in there. Maybe you should take a break from wherever you are getting your news from - you are getting fed a lot of lies. I don't know if I have time to debunk them all now.

First, on the drug issue, he's admitted to using drugs when he was younger, much like President Cokespoon. We've had plenty of presidents who have been drug/alcohol addicts, such as Grant, LBJ, Nixon, oh, and also President Alcoholic-until-age-40-then-became-a-dry-drunk. The evidence for this person's claims seem pretty weak, and remember that the GOP has been well known to pay people to lie about political opponents. There were people who came out of the woodwork in 1999/2000, probably paid for by Bush/Rove, who claimed with equal believability that John McCain was a turncoat traitor during his Vietnam captivity, and of course the Swiftboat vets in 2004 all lied about Kerry and were compensated financially.

On the sex issue, we've had at least one homosexual president before, and nothing bad happened to the country. Oh, wait, it was Buchanan and right after that the country broke in two - I guess that's a bad example! :)

I think this is actually an old smear, and has already "broken". I read similar things about Obama months ago, probably from the same source, and I imagine that the media - well aware of the slander and libel laws - has already vetted this story and found it to lack credibility.

I'd be curious where it is you've been "digging into his past".

Obama is not "the most liberal guy in the senate". That was Kerry, remember? (and even then it wasn't true). The National Review had to twist itself into a series of highly amusing knots in order to game their ratings to come up with that on Obama. If Obama were really liberal, he might have actually stood up in the Senate and led a filibuster against all the lawlessness and invasion of privacy and theft that has been the hallmarks of this regime. Obama has been relatively quiet and uncontroversial in the Senate, disappointing quite a few of his fans with his votes to fund The Heist (oh, I mean our glorious war against Islamonazism) and other cave-ins.

I'm not sure what you mean by a record of division, but I'd be interested in some examples.

I don't know how much mentoring his "Marxist uncle from Kenya" gave him, but he was raised in Hawaii until he was six, then spent four years in Indonesia, then spent the rest of his childhood and life in the US, being mostly raised by his middle class, white grandparents. I'm including a couple pictures of him with them here, so that maybe you can picture this kid having little league practice. Apart from four years in Indonesia before the 6th grade, his upbringing was as apple pie as yours or mine.




By the way, did you know that according to the Constitution John McCain cannot become President? He is not a native born American. I’m sure we’ll all be happy to make an exception for him, though.

It’s also nice to know that you support the theoretical election of a black man, if only so you can tell black people to shut up. Every cloud, silver linings, and all that.

Oh, here’s also a picture of Obama being sworn in to the Senate by the Prince of Darkness on a Bible, just to head off the findings of your next research into The Swarthy Muslim. See, his cover is so good that he’s already thought of not swearing in on a Koran so he doesn’t blow it.



Finally, I should note that Obama was about my third or fourth choice in this race, and although he is my first choice among the three who are left in the race at this point, I’m still unclear as to how much I trust him myself. I certainly trust him more, given his background as a beloved Constitutional law professor, neighborhood organizer, and activist, than I trust either McCain or Clinton.

I have a suggestion for a better way to spend your time than sweating out the secret problems of Obama between now and November: Try to get the GOP to un-fuck this country – undo the economic, diplomatic, and civil liberty horror scene they’ve created so that the country will have no choice but to sweep another GOP president into office on a wave of wonderful feelings for the Republicans. Then you won’t have to worry about a President Obama.

What do you think? Too harsh?

[LostinVA]

1. Disgusting subject line

:puke:

[ProfessorPlum]

2. true, not fair to the actually retarded.

Thanks, I'll change it.

[anigbrowl]

21. What's disgusting about calling someone a wingnut?

[LostinVA]

22. It's been edited since I made my post

[southlandshari]

3. If you really want him to listen to you

you might start with ceasing the references to him as retarded. It's offensive in and of itself. And it speaks volumes about how seriously you take him....so why worry about what he thinks of your views?

:shrug:

Do you think for one minute that the response you drafted will change his mind?

Or was it really more about smacking him down...hard?

It's a serious question.

:)

[ProfessorPlum]

5. You know, I don't know if his mind can be changed

and that is an interesting intellectual question for me. I'd like to think that, political and partisan that I am, that if somebody proved to me that I was being fed a boatload of lies, I would stop to think about my sources.

But that never seems to slow these folks down, does it? I'm still trying to figure out their disconnect with reality.

[southlandshari]

11. Maybe not....but just maybe....

It is a very interesting question, isn't it?

What I have found with my more conservative friends and family and the average person I meet through work and school is that people are actually far more open than they may seem....when approached by someone they trust. Someone who has taken the time to genuninely listen to their point of view and who doesn't jump down their throat with a scornful tone and dismissive attitude.

You might really have some influence here if you are interested in seeking to understand first, and then be understood.

Not nearly as much fun in the short run, of course, but ten times more meaningful in the long run, IMHO.

:)

[ProfessorPlum]

12. Ah, I see

I guess I should have included that my BIL have a history of a bit of back and forth, and we have had (until now) a pretty succesful standing agreement not to mail each other political stuff. It works out well that way, I think. He broke the truce yesterday, and as you can see from my first response I was going pretty easy on him. Until he regurgitated that load of crap into my inbox.

But you are right, family harmony and all of that.

[southlandshari]

13. Why not just ignore him, then?

Silence is a pretty powerful weapon in certain circumstances.

FWIW, I wasn't preaching family harmony. I was expressing my views on effective, powerful and meaningful communication. I'm not much into tilting at windmills, preaching to the choir or internet one-up-manship.

If you want to make a difference, listen to others first. Your words will mean so much more in the long run.

If you want to impress people already on your side, keep on keeping on.

I want change.

To me, that means I have to be willing to figure out how to change others' hearts and minds. I have to be humble enough to be open to them, but strong enough not to compromise my own beliefs.

I realize that my answer wasn't taken as I offered it, so I'll drop out of this, if that's what you want. Just please know that my response was serious.

[ProfessorPlum]

17. No, no, I appreciate it. I followed it on with this

I did a couple of quick checks into Larry Sinclair, and it turns out he failed two lie detector tests concerning these allegations: http://www.whitehouse.com/NewsComments.aspx?start=&NewsID=116



Polygraphs aren’t always reliable, but Sinclair seems to have some problems with his story (and possibly a history of mental illness? I can’t verify that one way or the other).



You strike me as an extremely intelligent person, except in this one regard: when a right wing source tells you something about someone on the left, you believe it, without ever seeming to stop and ask: “I wonder if that is really true? Where could I find out if that is really true?” and “Who benefits if that turns out to be a lie, and why would they want me to believe it?”



Just ask yourself those questions when you hear allegations about people – whether it’s John McCain’s illegitimate black baby, John Kerry lying about his service in Vietnam, Al Gore claiming credit for Love Canal, Ross Perot’s paranoid delusions, Hillary Clinton executing Vince Foster, Bill Clinton running a drug empire out of Arkansas, etc. All of those lies just happened to benefit the Bush family/the military industrial empire. When you hear them, it’s like you hear a dog whistle – your imperial masters command you to view that person as “other” – and your rational, reasoning mind shuts down. Just remember, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, and all the rest of the empire’s media servants have been caught in numerous lies – hundreds of lies – on air. They are lying to you and I can’t figure out why you, a highly intelligent person, would submit to being deceived. You’re a sophisticated person – you know the way the world works – would powerful people lie to keep their hold on power, wealth, and to keep their own asses out of jail? You know they would.



I can appreciate your feelings of trust toward the GOP, and I certainly respect many of the older GOP’s positions. If you want to vote Republican, please do so, but remember that the Democrats are not necessarily wild eyed liberals, turncoats, and traitors. Many of them have served America honorably and admirably (certainly many more nationally known Democrats have served in the armed forces than current national Republicans), but you don’t need to also believe crazy rumors about them to vote against them.



I’ve never believed that John McCain had an illegitimate black child, or that he was a Vietnamese collaborator, for example, even when the Bush campaign was running those smears against him. He has his flaws, but they are ones that can actually be verified. Anyway, here’s looking forward and hoping to better government in the future, no matter which party it comes from.

[southlandshari]

18. FWIW, I think that was an excellent response!

I really liked what you had to say and the way you said it. A positive step, IMHO.

Thanks for the dialogue here, too. It means a lot to me.

:toast:

[ProfessorPlum]

25. Thank you as well, I appreciate it.

[TheDoorbellRang]

26. I agree with southlandshari

The tenor of his response to your email seemed like he was at least open to discussion. I have found in my own life that lack of confrontation with Republicans and a steady drip, drip, drip of nuggets of info are very effective tools: my Republican-leaning husband voted for Claire McCaskill in 2006 (a voting first for him), and my Republican brother called me this past weekend to talk about his candidate this fall: Obama.
So my strategy has paid off handsomely.

[sharp_stick]

4. Too Harsh?

Are you kidding, shit that is a laundry list of being way too nice to him. Nicely written, I'd be interested to hear if he bothers to respond. Chances are he can't find the retorts he needs from limpballs and his cronies in time.

If he's anything like the guys I know that propagate this bullshit, he won't respond and then in several weeks claim he never got your email.

[crim son]

6. I read it after you'd made your edits. I think it's great.

It's astonishing how an apparently literate man, your BIL, can regurgitate the repuke talking points without realizing how foolish he sounds. Poor guy; keep at him.

[ProfessorPlum]

8. Isn't that the weirdest? He's fairly intelligent in lots of other ways.

[Coexist]

7. I didn't open your links - but if its the crack/gay sex thing, that guy FAILED two polygraphs.

http://www.whitehouse.com/NewsComments.aspx?start=&NewsID=116

[ProfessorPlum]

10. Jesus, how did I miss that? Thanks for the link, will be sending

that on as well.

[democrat_patriot]

9. Brilliant response.

Unfortunately you may be talking over his head. In 2004 I simply deleted these types of emails, this time around I will hit reply to all and debunk each and every one of them. I will catapult the TRUTH, not propaganda.

Keep up the good (albeit tiring) work!

[LiberalAndProud]

14. I thought you were eloquent.

How do you type that without exploding-head, pounding-keyboard syndrome? I'm afraid I'll break my keyboard.

[Flabbergasted]

15. You do realize that Larry Sinclair FAILED his Polygraph?

[ProfessorPlum]

16. Just realized that this morning

How I failed to connect the name to the allegation until now, I'll never know - I think it's just because I ignore political garbage.

[damntexdem]

19. The cited site is a joke site.

Nuff said.

[ProfessorPlum]

20. You've got to be f*ing kidding me. Holy Moses.

[Barack_America]

23. I believe Obama is also wearing a FLAG PIN...

In the oath pic with Cheney. Keep that in mind, as I'm sure your brother law will be mentioning that RW smear eventually.

[ProfessorPlum]

24. My god, that picture in itself is like a one-man army, dealing death to

dozens of Right Wing Memes!

Worth a thousand words.