She did not endorse McCain; this is getting ridiculous

[Godhumor]

I used this in a thread yesterday, but it is apropos:

"Tom Brady has experience in the Super Bowl. Brett Favre has experience in the Super Bowl. Manning played the Patriots tough in week 16 but lost. Brett Favre has a better chance of beating Brady in the Super Bowl."

That is not the same thing as "I like Favre better than Manning."

Even taking her statement with "in the White House" inserted, it changes nothing, as the inclusion of Obama in the statement is a direct implication that she is talking about what experience he would also bring to the presidency.

Her entire statement was her trying to be creative in saying "I have the best chance at beating McCain by matching experience to experience." Whether you agree with how she decided to phrase it (i.e. attacking Obama's experience), she did not say McCain is a better choice than Obama.

Going so far of accusing her of disloyalty, being a traitor, being in bed with the republicans, and of sabotaging her own party over this statement borders on the absurd.

Edit: Folks, Her saying "Obama brings one speech" is called hyperbole for the purpose of drawing a distinct comparison. Definitions of hyperbole:1. obvious and intentional exaggeration. 2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

[1620rock]

1. Spot on!

[meow mix]

8. HERE IS THE VIDEO: What she did was Abhorrent and Disloyal to Millions of Democrats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou4JnWQsxKw&eurl=

call it whatever you want.. shes a traitor

[demo dutch]

Get a grip!

[rodeodance]

24. You are one of the worst distorters -- shame on you! --calling her a traior!

call it whatever you want.. shes a traitor

[KittyWampus]

32. she's the one who decided to screw herself over by saying that. Words mean something

Hillary and her supporters will just have to own that along with her fucked up 3am ad and her saying "on to the next contest in PA".

[kwassa]

54. Um, where did she say she endorsed John McCain??????

It doesn't appear in the clip, does it?

[Hieronymus]

63. Wow, a dyed in the wool Hillaryite.

[kwassa]

66. Hillaryite, or Obamite, you haven't answered the question.

Wanna try?

[Obamanaut]

71. How about where she lumped his experience in the same hand

with her own, and put Sen Obama's in the other hand. I don't think one really must actually use the word 'endorse' to give or imply approval, must one?

[SeaLyons]

68. OMG....she's a traitor??????

How could you even type that? Way over the edge.

[snappyturtle]

85. Bookmark this and we'll see what you say when McCain uses

this against Sen. Obama in the lead up to the general election. Sen. Clinton is aiding and abetting the enemy. Traitor is as traitor does.

[MyNameGoesHere]

72. Just wondering have you stroked out yet this primary season?

Please be careful that anger and false bravado will give you a stroke quicker than anything. Oh i see a vein popping out....

[yardwork]

77. Absurd hyperbole. Read some history and learn what real abhorrence is.

"Abhorrent" is genocide. "Abhorrent" is the U.S. torturing prisoners.

You are throwing around words with no consideration for their meaning. It's offensive. There are people reading this board who know first-hand what "abhorrence" is, and your comparison of their suffering to a political primary is offensive.

[bowens43]

2. Her impication was quite clear

McCain is a better choice then Obama. That is what she siad/

[redqueen]

15. Yup. There's no avoiding that truth. (nt)

[jellybeancurse]

16. Agreed

She implied heavily that McCain was a better choice than Obama.

[mcctatas]

3. I don't necessarily disagree with your premise...

(I am a democrat first and an Obama supporter second, so I am not prone to attribute evil intent to other dems), but please, please, please tell me about her practical experience. I am not being snarky or bitchy, I really want to know.

[Godhumor]

11. I have stayed out of asking people to support one person over another

I have no issue with people disliking her or her tactics; I'm just speechless at how this "nothing" has blown up on DU.

[berni_mccoy]

4. WRONG. She said McCain would be better in the White House than Obama. She is no better than Zel.

[jalynn]

13. All she said

was McCain and her had more experience than Obama, which is true. This has really been blown way out of proportion, totally ridiculous. She did not say anything about McCain being better in the White House just that he has more experience, don't put more to it.

[berni_mccoy]

29. She said "Bring to the White House" for both her and McCain. She said it to Kiss Up to McCain

In a DESPERATE hope to be his Running Mate. She trashed Obama and you know it.

[leftofcool]

5. Wait on it.......................

Obamacons will be right in to call you unpatriotic, a bad Democrat, a traitor.....pick one.

[HardWorkingDem]

6. Disagree.....

She used a terrible example. Terrible. And frankly, with her past track record, I think it is very fair to wonder if she was possibly up to something else.

From my watching of the Clinton's over the past, they are like chess game players - always looking ahead a great deal, so it makes me wonder if she is thinking about the possibility of the Dems not winning in Nov and her own future with a supposed "maverick" in office - possibly with a Sec. Of State slot?

I think she is hedging all her bets and is acting terribly.

[writes3000]

7. Once again, she said Obama's ONLY experience is ONE SPEECH

The man has been working for over 20 years as a politician and she said the only experience that he could bring to the White House is a speech.

A speech compared to a LIFETIME OF EXPERIENCE.

What thinking person would even question which person she was implying was more qualified? You are defending semantics when the facts are staring all of us in the face.

She ABSOLUTELY implied McCain was more qualified.

PS - George Bush Sr. was more experienced that Bill Clinton. Maybe Hillary should have DIMINSHED his qualifications down to just one speech. Pathetic.

[BearSquirrel2]

48. Even if you're interpretation is correct ...

Even if your inerpretation is correct, it still represents a lie on her part. Hillary's "experience" is as a lawyer for Wal-Mart, a president's wife, the health care commission (which she now repudiates) and 6 years in the Senate.

Obama has two years experience in the Senate and many more years in the Illinois legislature. Barak Obama has lived all over the world. One can easily make the argument that Obama is far more qualified than Hillary.

Now if you want to make the case on precisely "international diplomacy" ... well her experience would be shmoozing at cocktail parties and the 4 more years in the Senate. Her husband didn't have any experience when he came into the White House.

Her arguments are spurious and if she wants to build a case based on counting the # of years in the federal government, she's endorsing McCain. She'd REALLY be endorsing Cheney if he was running. It's QUALITY, not QUANTITY!!!!

[City Lights]

9. She exposed her dishonest self yesterday.

If she believes that the only experience Obama has is giving a speech, then I question whether she has the mental capacity to answer a ringing phone at 3 am. She's gone off the deep end. Follow her at your own peril. :hi:

[Godhumor]

It's hyperbole, she was trying to make a distinct parallel

Between herself, her Democratic opponent, and the Republican challenger.

It was hyperbole designed for a quick soubd bite and nothing more. I do not care if you like or dislike what she said, whether you agree or disagree with how she did it, but trying to turn this into an endorsement of the Republican nominee and party disloyalty is not the appropriate response.

[City Lights]

27. Hyperbull is more like it.

It's not up to you to determine whether my response is appropriate or not. You only get to decide how you interpret it, just like the rest of us. Hillary has no one to blame but herself if the majority of us interpret this in a way that reflects negatively upon her. So much for her vaunted experience. :eyes:

[jlake]

10. K&R

[npincus]

12. WRONG- She aligned herself with a Repub for an unfavorable comparison

to her DEMOCRATIC opponent. WHat the hell is wrong with her? Does she want him for VP?

[MoonRiver]

14. Obamafolk crossed over the line from ridiculous to absurd long ago.

Now they're teetering on the line of demarcation to insane.

[bridgit]

20. Sheesh, you got that right.

[demo dutch]

22. High time to drop this forum, It's been hijacked by Phobics and I'm sick of it!!!

[berni_mccoy]

30. Projecting your own desperation onto Obama supporters is what you are left with.

Sad really. Most of America feels sorry for you.

[MoonRiver]

33. ...

:rofl:

[bridgit]

34. No they don't, half of America feels sorry for you, and that's what BO peeps...

are just simply not able to wrap their heads around...this is still America we don't have kings, queens or coronations, and other people have opinions different from yours

[berni_mccoy]

37. Exactly my point. You Hillbots are so wild-eyed about Clinton that you ignore everything she says

and does, even though it's counter to your beliefs and morals. You have drunk the koolaid and have past the point of reason or logic.

[bridgit]

40. Your point is clear, you have no intention of adhering to *any* decorum...

or civility in the course of just handing your cool guy candidate his crown of jewels, while standing right there and NOT even requiring him to attend his own committee on the very matters over which he lacks so much experience, but hey!

Oprah baptized him, and he plays Stevie Wonder songs so what's the problem?

[berni_mccoy]

49. OMG! DECORUM! There's Decorum on this Board?!? Really?!?! WHOA... How could I have missed that!!??!?

[DemGa]

Oddly, arguing with these Obamas is like arguing with Repugs

perhaps explaining their affinity to praise Reagan, etc.

[bridgit]

26. Ding! You got it. BO peeps think their guy is The Light, The One, they think...

he should just sail in there without care or question. Hillary or no Hillary it's too similar.

[complain jane]

17. "Getting"?

It was ridiculous from the start.

Mass hysteria.

Some here are just looking, waiting on the edge of their seat for anything HRC says or does so they can freak out and go hysterical and blow it out of proportion and embellish on it and analyze it and parse it down to the Nth degree and read into it and put their tinfoil hats on and tell us what she "really" meant and predict the future implications of it and compare it to other things and add words to it and take words out of it and photoshop something together to illustrate the nonsense and link to a video and scream and wail and foam at the mouth.

And after that, THEN they get going and really get wound up.

[Barack_America]

18. She said that if Obama is nominated, and national security is your issue...

Then McCain is the stronger candidate.

There's no disputing this.

[WinkyDink]

25. There is plenty of room for disputing. McCain is a war-monger. How will THAT keep us "secure"?

BTW, all this "security" blather is just that.

[Barack_America]

28. There is plenty of room for disputing whether what Hillary said is true...

but there is no room for disputing that Hillary said McCain is stronger than Obama on national security.

[WinkyDink]

44. Agreed. I might have been confused by the pronoun "this". :)

[Barack_America]

45. No problem. I'm not the clearest writer.

I end up editing a lot of posts! lol.

[Emillereid]

19. Then she's totally naive and inept. She should know that the statement she

made yesterday about McCain's so-called superior experience will be used over and over again by McCain in the GE against Obama. He'll have ads claiming experience over Obama that assert that even Hillary Clinton agrees! Stupid and traitorous. She's not fit to lead the party.

[writes3000]

21. She knew exactly what she was doing, subtext and all. n/t

[WinkyDink]

23. She placed McCain on a par with herself. There is no spin that can alter that meaning.

[AZBlue]

31. Technically, no - but she's definitely CAMPAIGNING for him.

Putting any GOP'er above any Dem candidate is a clear indication of where her loyalties lie - and every Dem in the country should see this clearly.

[Godhumor]

39. She is not campaigning for McCain she is saying exactly what every other politician has said

Our opponent is strong, but I am strong in the same way. I have a better chance of winning in the general.

Look, if Clinton does concede and step out of this race this week or at the convention, she will do what all Democrats in Congress are expected to do--she will support Obama. If she does not, she loses her leadership position within the party, the respect of her peers (other Congress Critters), and she will not be embraced by the right as Mr. independent from Connecticut has been. To think she will do anything else is disingenuous.

[4themind]

35. Very ambiguous phrasing

I think it was a reckless use of language to make a point. Her relative lack of modifiers to distinguish her usage of "experience" in her case and in McCain's case vs. obama's leads to me believe that she possibly deliberatively excluded them, in the hopes of leading viewers towards one line of reasoning (which can have grave potentially grave consequences for the hopes of any democrat in the GE) or she shows a relative ignorance of the effect of that language on the values of the voting populace. Either of which are an an added mark against here in my eyes, independent of obama's prior transgressions, and provides one more line of attack for the GOP to use ;which IMO can be spun regardless if either is the nominee

[not_too_L8]

36. Your a giant sucking sound going to the right !!! n/t

[Godhumor]

43. I'm not even sure what you're talking about

Seriously (with no sarcasm on my part about this), can you explain what you mean, so I can respond in a meaningful way?

[goletian]

38. hillary and mccain are bffs - you all know what she did was wrong

best friends forever!


hillary compared herself to mccain as if that was a good thing, and dissed obama. i can already hear it now if obama wins the nomination. just wait for a debate where mccain says, "even hillary of the democrats mentioned how much more experience i would bring to the whitehouse..." it was the dumbest thing she could have ever said. when obama compares mccain to anyone, its in a negative light - thats the only way to do it unless you want mccain aka "bush jr" to run our country further into the ground.

[City Lights]

41. I had to click your post to see if you included that pic!

I had it ready to go if you hadn't posted it. ;-)

[Skip Intro]

42. Thank You! I know many Obama supporters will cling to their fake outrage - anything to bash Hillary,

but thanks for stating the obvious for them anyway.

:thumbsup:

[goletian]

46. stop lying to yourself

i cant speak for all obama supporters, but i have a great deal of respect for hillary. shes worked hard to get where she is, but shes throwing it all away with the way shes running her campaign. shes cornered and shes not holding anything back as a result - a little more self control on her part would help, but since it isnt there shes going to be criticized. if obama did this, hillary would make it a point to go on camera and paint him as a traitor. "shame on you, barack obama!!" shed say.

[Skip Intro]

51. Welcome to DU. Still, no one has provided the quote where she supposedly endorsed mccain -

that tells us a little about who is lying, yes?

[goletian]

57. thank you for the welcome. i sure as hell aint lying

endorse: be behind; approve of.

hillary juxtaposes her experience to mccains, does she disapprove of her experience? no. she approves of it, just as she approves of mccains by aligning her experience with his to make a case against obama. doesnt mean she said "vote for mccain" but she did give him a boost, thats why people are upset about it. you cant tell me you wouldnt be pissed as hell if obama pulled a stunt like this.

[Skip Intro]

59. Obamas lack of experience has been her theme for months. Valid point at that. No endosrement,

nothing of the kind. Which is why it is so hard to quote - because something that just is not there cannot be quoted.

It is really baffling to watch the whining section of the Obama chior work themselves into a frenzy over something that is not even there.

Btw, Obama has compared Hillary with gouliani, romney, and bush/cheney. He has said she cannot be trusted.

[goletian]

61. thats just it, obamas comparisons put the repubs in unfavorable light

nothing of the kind. Which is why it is so hard to quote - because something that just is not there cannot be quoted.

It is really baffling to watch the whining section of the Obama chior work themselves into a frenzy over something that is not even there.

Btw, Obama has compared Hillary with gouliani, romney, and bush/cheney. He has said she cannot be trusted.

clinton made mccain look better than obama on experience. yes, her theme has been experience for months, but this message is new, this message is: me and mccain have experience, obama doesnt has not. if that was her message from the beginning, she probably wouldve been out a long time ago.

[JackORoses]

65. are you stupid, or do you simply approve of what Hillary did?

[Skip Intro]

69. Are you an O-drone, or do you just get off on bashing Hillary. CHALLENGE TO YOU:

QUOTE me, in a reply, where she endorsed mccain. No link to a video or another post - show me, in quotes, where she endorsed mccain.

[marions ghost]

67. the quote

and the video are all over DU and beyond.

Where u been? :)

[Skip Intro]

79. No quote in your post. Evidently no one can post it. Odd, isnt it?

yeah, I have been here, requested repeatedly that those making the charge she endorsed mccain back the assertion up with a quote showing her endorsing mccain - no one has.

you know why no one can post it? it is not there.

prove me wrong please.

[marions ghost]

80. the video was posted all morning in various threads

(so people here are getting sick of it probably) try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou4JnWQsxKw&eurl=

She doesn't say she "endorses" McCain, but the identification with him as an experienced presidential candidate over the pathetically deficient Obama is clear. So while it's not an official "endorsement" it's a telling indicator of where her alliances really lie, ie. she'll suck up to McCain & the conservatives in order to discredit Obama. Not cool.

[damntexdem]

47. She ranked Obama third, behind McCain.

All I need to know.

[kwassa]

55. in terms of experience, which is true. She didn't endorse McCain.

[superkia]

50. It says to Americans that if she cant get into the oval office, we...

can have one person that would bring experience(McCain) to the white house and one that would only bring a speech(Obama). She is not a traitor, she is just one of the many politicians that are bought and paid for and support the elites agenda...thats all!

[Blue_In_AK]

52. Stop trying to talk sense.

That is not allowed in this forum.

[amborin]

53. Obama endorsed Reagan

why didn't Obama mention Roosevelt?

or the New Deal?

why say Rethuglicans have ideas?

[Lilith Velkor]

58. It's OK when Obama does it

Didn't you get the memo?

[HughMoran]

56. I didn't think this place could look any more like Freeperland, then I logged on today

Oh. My. Fucking. Gawd.

Good thing though, it's exposed a bunch of morans true intentions here - my iggy list overfloweth...

[Obamanaut]

60. You mean creative hyperbole such as saying she has made

"...I’ve given a lot of speeches in my life, probably I don’t know, hundreds of thousands..."

Can you imagine how many speeches per day one would need to average to give hundreds of thousands in 35 years of "experience?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4847188

[Godhumor]

64. Yes, hyperbole--like Michelle Obama saying this is the first time she was proud of her country

Clinton supporters looked really bad on that one, because everybody got that she wasn't being literal, and many twisted it to look like she really meant that as a factual statement.

Hyperbole is any massive exaggeration to make a point, they can be negative or positive. Obama saying DC needs adult supervision is hyperbole to make a memorable but light comment about DC people needing to stop bickering.

Hyperbole taken as literal statemnt is always a fallacy.

[Obamanaut]

73. Or claiming 35 years of experience? nt

[Godhumor]

81. That would be creative use of past experience

Not hyperbole. She actually wants people to believe she has 35 years worth of relevant experience. Whether the majority of the people believe her on that or not is a different story.

[SeaLyons]

62. She DID NOT endorse McCain

Your post is correct. It's a twisted world on this board. Thanks for sharing some sanity.

Hillary for President.

[marions ghost]

70. No she didn't endorse McCain...

but she might as well have.

What Hillary did:

She equated herself with McCain and used the mental image of the two of them ascending together while downgrading Obama to annoying insect level, ie. some upstart who gave a notable speech one day in 02.

If I were Obama, I would not forgive this serious transgression of loyalties.

I never thought Hillary would sink that low. It's an eye opener even for an Edwards to Obama supporter.
I had a higher opinion of her before this.

x(

[SeaLyons]

86. ...

you've got to be kidding.....Hillary is not responsible for Obama's status in this primary. It is what it is. It's up to him. They are in a heated battle for the presidency, and for you to think that he should get a free pass is rediculous. Is it loyal of Obama to accuse the Clintons of using the race card, lieing about her stand on NAFTA, misleading the voters on her healthcare plan? As far as Hillary being the best one to go against McCain, hands down she is. She has every right to point that out.

[surfin]

74. Just on MSNBC

Mclain was using what she said to show how he has the experience for answering the 3am call.

They will use this against Obama. Watch. Mahalo Hillary.

[Arugula Latte]

75. She's Traitor Hillary ---> I guess the truth hurts.

[IsItJustMe]

76. The hell she didn't. How many different ways can you split a hair?

[Godhumor]

82. There's no splitting hairs

She didn't endorse him and she didn't recommend people vote for him or anything else even remotely like that. She did try to say that she was the Democratic candidate who could match his experience.

But you know, I don't think Obama would argue this point either--he's marked himself as the change candidate, and I am certain one of the ways he would describe that is as someone without the DC experience. Clinto said we need experience to win the election; Obama is going to argue that we need change.

[Skidmore]

78. Such obtuse parsing...

she IMPLIES that either McCain or she would be preferable choices based on one characteristic--experience. Sometimes it is not the words spoken but the implication that hangs in the air that meets intention. By anointing herself and McCain as the only worthy candidates, she does endorse him. There's no way to parse her butt out of yet one more tone deaf stupid political stunt. This woman leaves a stench in her wake no matter where she goes.

[indimuse]

83. 100% in agreement!

bravo! And let's not forget "Status Quot"...hence Cheney ans Bush...

[midora]

84. Hillary:"Hell, I'll Do Anything to Get Elected!"

Of course she didn't say this and wouldn't say this, but in light of her recent reprehensible behavior, it certainly offers an explanation.