Did Hillary Clinton endorse John McCain?

[BuyingThyme]

Poll question: Did Hillary Clinton endorse John McCain?

en·dorse
–verb
1. to approve, support, or sustain: to endorse a political candidate.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=endorse

[Drunken Irishman]

1. Well she says this election is all about experience and McCain has more experience. You do the math.

[NightWatcher]

2. gave preference over FELLOW democrat to McCain

[stellanoir]

13. Whilst minimizing his entire illustrious career to a mere speech.

One in which he showed greater wisdom than either of the other contenders despite all their alleged time tested experiences.

[marylanddem]

14. Well said.

[marylanddem]

3. She sure as hell did, and she's a damned traitor to the party.

[IsItJustMe]

71. Either that or she has lost her fricking mind. I have other theories but they are only speculative

at best.

[meow mix]

4. Heres the Video of a Disloyal "Democrat" Hillary the Betrayer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou4JnWQsxKw&eurl=

[Renew Deal]

20. Zell Clinton

:banghead:

[meow mix]

32. Zellary Hillberman

:mad:

[Apollo11]

5. SHAME ON YOU!

Obviously, Hillary haters will vote yes on this, no matter what the truth is.

[marylanddem]

8. Sorry, but the video speaks for itself. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Meh.

Obviously McC... Hillary supporters will vote no on this, no matter what the truth is.

[Cant trust em]

16. What is the truth then?

Please tell me. What do you hear when you see this?

[BuyingThyme]

17. Then shame on anybody who even mentions Hillary I guess?

[liberalnurse]

41. Anybody can be silly like you are doing.

Let's go for the real juice.


Tic, Tic, Tic...........it's only a matter of Thyme.

Rezko and Obama..............




Canadian/NAFTA trail..........




Here is Obama and Rezko's Celly-mate.

[BuyingThyme]

65. Thank you for removing that image of Barack and Condoleezza fucking.

That was really racist.

[Renew Deal]

18. And what will Hillary's apologists do?

Hillary's supporters have to live with their candidate and their guilt.

[lojasmo]

33. Shame on YOU. Cogent people will vote 'yes' here. EOM

[npincus]

6. she aligned herself with McCain for a comparison with a fellow Dem

-an unfavorable one for Obama.

[BuyingThyme]

11. Is that a YES or a NO?

[npincus]

59. Firstly, I both DENOUNCE and REJECT her remark

Secondly, if you want to play a game of semantic-gotcha, the word "endorse" did not cross her lips BUT citing BOTH she and McCain are experienced hands while BO made but one speech is an endorsement of her own candidacy AND a backhanded endorsement of McCain's.

If the remark were not thoroughly objectinable and disloyal coming from a Democratic candidate, you would not be seeing this kind of response to it all over the Internets.

So, the answer is "YES".

[BuyingThyme]

67. Hmm... She neither denounced or rejected McCrazy in that statement.

Looks like a double standard.

[mudesi]

She did, but she didn't mean to

She was trying to attack Obama (again), but it turned out to be an endorsement for McCain, whether she likes it or not.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Just like the MLK thing.

:shrug:

[mudesi]

7. .

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. Awesome!!!!! Yet ANOTHER Worthless "Are You A Hillary Supporter Or Obama Supporter" Empty Poll!

Woohooooooo!!!!!!

:bounce:

[BuyingThyme]

34. ..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4879107

[mudesi]

56. Do you hate these simply because there are more Obama supporters here?

:rofl:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

60. Not The Point.

The point is that they are complete exercises in futility. Any time a poll like this is posted, all it truly is asking is "which candidate do you support?". I would find them to be exercises in futility regardless of who the majority of respondents were.

[JuniperLea]

15. Saying someone has experience in a certain field...

Does not an endorsement make.

GWB has a hell of a lot more experience than I with regard to beer drinking and coke snorting... that is NOT an endorsement.

GWB has more experience prezidentin than HRC or BHO put together... that is NOT an endorsement.

[BuyingThyme]

19. Was she endorsing herself?

[JuniperLea]

23. She wasn't endorsing anyone...

She was making a statement based on her feelings in regard to experience in the political arena.

Hillary's main problem is the people who advise her to speak like a man would.

[BuyingThyme]

40. I could have sworn she was endorsing herself.

[Cant trust em]

46. Her entire candidacy is based on the fact that experience is the most important thing

She admits that she and John McCain share her greatest attribute. Obama doesn't have that most important of ingredients for success. But the republican candidate does.

[JuniperLea]

47. I would take that to mean...

That even the Republican in the race has more experience than he does. EVEN the republican.

[Cant trust em]

50. Right. She's siding with republicans over a democrat.

I don't understand how you can compliment a Republican and denigrate a Democrat in the same quote.

[goletian]

26. oh no? was she speaking of his experience as a pro or con?

wouldnt make much sense for her to be criticizing herself at this stage, would it?

[thewiseguy]

The difference is...

She lashed at Obama who has a much better chance of getting the nomination in favor of McCain.

How exactly is she going to come around supporting Obama against McCain after what she said yesterday? She is dividing this party. People have a right to be outraged and mad over her yesterday's statements.

When did it become ok to belittle a fellow democrat who is most probably going to run on the Dem ticket in favor of the republicans' nominee?

[JuniperLea]

55. When did it become ok to belittle a fellow democrat???

Have you ever heard of a little thing called "politics"? Have you ever heard of a "primary election"??

Belittling of a fellow candidate, regardless of which side of the aisle they sit, is part and parcel of politicking!!!

Honestly. Too many people have just recently fallen off the freaking turnip truck.

[goletian]

30. oh, no? was she speaking of his experience as a pro or a con?

wouldnt make much sense for her to be criticizing herself at this point, would it?

[LisaM]

42. I know, I've never heard a sillier accusation

Talk about negative campaigning.

[dmallind]

21. anyone voting yes is an idiot or blind partisan NT

[BuyingThyme]

25. So, if McKeating and Obama are the nominees, how can what she said

not be viewed as an endorsement?

[dmallind]

45. Well let's see

me (honestly): "A lot of women like tall men as sexual partners. If you want tall men I'm a much better comparison to, say, Arnold Schwarzenegger than Tom Cruise is (Tom Cruise is rather short)"

you: "So you're saying women should prefer Arnold Schwarzenegger to Tom Cruise? - you are endorsing Arnold for women?"

me: No - I'm saying if you are comparing heights I'm closer to the former than is the latter, so I would stack up better in a comparison with Arnold Schwarzenegger, on the sole and limited basis of height, than would Tom Cruise."

So to mix meatphors here if it's 3am and you want someone to get the cookie jar off a tall shelf - who are you going to call?

[Cant trust em]

48. Hillary's entire candidacy has been based on experience

The reason that she should be president is because of a lifetime of experience. John McCain also has a lifetime of experience, ergo, John McCain could also be president. Obama does not have a lifetime of experience. Therefore John McCain would be a better president than Barack Obama. What about this doesn't jive?

[dmallind]

61. The fact that you are missing the comparison

Right now she is campaigning in the primary. One important factor in a primary is how likely you are to win the general, agreed?

IF you care about experience, and IF you buy the idea that HRC's experience is significantly more valuable than BO's (I don't, you probably don't, HRC does and plenty of other people too) who would you rather see against McCain, who definitely has far more experience in politics than most for what it's worth, in the GE?

It's got bugger all to do with endorsing McCain and 100% to do with trying to say she'd stand up better in comparison to him than Obama would. I doubt the truth value of the claim somewhat, and I doubt the import of experience somewhat, but I don't doubt the intent or comparison or interpretation one iota.

[Cant trust em]

63. Let's assume that you're right and I'm just getting caught up in a communications flub

So she worded it badly and I'm misinterpreting her comments. If the GE comes down to who has the most experience, we lose. Hillary can't go toe to toe with McCain on experience. He's been in office for 25 years. He's older so it's automatically assumed that when you've reached his level of geezerhood that he's seen it all. I think that going down this line is a mistake.

[dmallind]

68. Agreed in most

I don't think it was a flub really - just grossly esaggerated and misinterpreted by a bunch of people who think by default anything Hillary does is one small step from murder, and not necessarily a step down either.

That apart though, I agree - it's not even a valid differentiator with Obama in my opinion and it's outright silly to use it against McCain. I never said it was smart or true, only that it was clearly intended to be a "who do you want in the GE against this experienced guy on the other side folks" reminder.

Personally I want that to be Obama, and think his answer to experience should be the same line every time. "I'm experienced enough to know that those who've been in politics longer than I have gotten us to where we are, and to know what I want to change about that. Do you want change or more of the same?".

[Cant trust em]

69. I'm willing to admit that there might be more from this clip than what we've seen

Maybe after the 9 seconds she says this is explains about the GE and electability vs. McCain. But the fact that this was done so overtly and in the same sentence it rubs me wrong. Comparisons to the GE are totally fair, but I think that by wording it differently she could have saved me a less agnst ridden morning.

[BuyingThyme]

51. How 'bout this:

1. Hillary has based her entire campaign on the notion that experience is the most important quality when it comes to electing a president.

2. Hillary says she and McCrazy are more experienced than Obama.

3. ?

[dmallind]

58. How about this:

1. Experience is touted as her best advantage over Obama (I personally think this is a bit weak and questionable, but I'm not Hillary).

2. She has to beat Obama before she beats McCain (I doubt the first will happen, but again, I'm not Hillary)

3. Whoever wins will have to face McCain, and it's important that they win that one. (I'm right behind this one)

4. Ergo for those who care about experience, and want a Dem to win the GE, the position - again weak and questionable though the concept is - should be clear: it is better to have HRC compared to McCain than Obama.

Why is that so hard?

[ecstatic]

22. Endorsement or not, she's making the GOP's job much easier

Her own short sighted rant will come back to haunt her.

[Zachstar]

24. Whatever the word is to whoever. She did put a republican ahead of a fellow democrat. in a race.

In my view that is why she ought to not be a democrat.

Had this been the senate or something outside of the race then I can see it being fine.

"In bill A you do not have as much experience on this matter as republican B."

However doing that during a race gives republicans a ton of ammo to use in the GE and that is inexcusable because Clinton said it without care and without remorse. She added the speech in 2002 crap just to make the betrayal that much more painful.

I feel sorry for Obama right now. He can no longer associate himself with Clinton after this race. He wanted to be friends with her. That is why he was always on the defensive. He tried to keep the friendship alive with the biggest machine in political history and got eaten for it.

However, Obama now has a GE to go and do hopefully soon and cannot afford to keep this friendship alive anymore. He has to distance himself from Clinton as much as possible and just move on.

[JuniperLea]

27. Had a male candidate said this...

There would have been nothing to discuss.

[Zachstar]

36. Uh yes there would be.

If you are trying to crap on things by turning things sexist you are failing.

A betrayal is a betrayal race, gender, whatever.. has nothing to do with it.

[Liberal Dose]

39. Excellent summary. nt

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thewiseguy]

31. Disgusting post

If you represent the "core democratic base" then I want to have nothing to do with it or you for that matter.

[bigtree]

44. I think this is totally wrong

please delete those disgusting pics. There's no place for that.

[LeftCoast]

29. If she did, then it should be very easy to supply the quote. Since nobody has...

then it is clear she did not endorse.

[stevenleser]

35. The video is all over DU (n/t)

[LeftCoast]

52. I've seen the video I think you are referring to, but it doesn't say what you claim

:shrug:

[1620rock]

38. Sigh, give it a rest, ...BTW,Obama has said he is a "Ray-gun" man.

[Barack_America]

37. On national security, yes.

I don't believe she agrees with him otherwise. But still, you never, NEVER place a Republican candidate over a Democrat.

[Cant trust em]

53. assuming that the quote is in the context of nat'l security

How does Clinton have a "lifetime" of national security experience? Even if she were to include her time as first lady and her time as senator that would only be 16 years. I don't think that you get national security experience in the Rose law firm or on the board of Walmart.

[Barack_America]

54. Or when you have NO security clearance as First Lady.

That's why we're not seeing her White House records, because they'll show that she wasn't privy to shit.

[Cant trust em]

57. For real

When arguing with Clinton supporters I'm willing to throw them the bone that being first lady is amazing first hand experience. Playing the "OK, just for the sake of argument game." But in the real world I know that it's not. Co-presidency my ass.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

43. No, she didn't

and I don't like Clinton-goes back to something personal that happened in Arkansas when she was First Lady here, so I'm not a supporter.

She just said she and McCain had experience and Obama didn't. Personally, I think it was a stupid thing to say, as McCain could use it in the GE against either one of them.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

49. No, but she handed Johnny Boy

A very big bat to club Obama with should he win the nomination. Typical Hillary think of only herself first..

[Occam Bandage]

62. She endorsed him over the likely Democratic nominee. Lieberman all over again.

[Forkboy]

64. Technically no. In essence, yes.

I know that's probably not black and white enough for this forum though. ;)

[democrattotheend]

66. I wouldn't call it an endorsement

But I sure wasn't happy about it. I have never called for Hillary to drop out, but I have called on her numerous times to keep it civil and not do anything that would hurt Obama's chances in November if he gets the nomination.

I wouldn't say she endorsed McCain, but it did sound like she was implying that McCain is more qualified to be president than Obama, and that hurts Obama's chances in the fall. McCain could even use that clip in an ad.

So I voted no in the poll, but that does not mean I am not disgusted.

[Jim Lane]

70. I'm not voting because...

neither option is adequate for me.

I'm with a third group: "It wasn't technically an endorsement, or even an endorsement in essence. Nevertheless, she crossed a line. Candidates in a party primary should, as a general rule, make their case for themselves, and may engage in criticism of their opponent, but should refrain from forms of campaigning that will hurt their party in the general election."

There could be exceptions when, for example, someone like David Duke is running in your primary. You can, and should, take the gloves off without regard to how you might hurt him in November if he's the nominee. Such circumstances are exceptional, however. The Clinton-Obama contest isn't an exception.

[BuyingThyme]

72. You should vote NO.

[Jim Lane]

74. Voting "NO" would lump me in with people who think her comment was perfectly proper.

I hold myself to the same standard I suggest for Clinton: Consider not just whether what you say is true, but also whether saying it in this particular context is beneficial.

On this poll, a simple unadorned "No" vote could be pointed to by Clinton supporters who have no problem with what she said. I believe that the presentation of only part of my opinion would be harmful, so I won't go along with it.

It's no stretch to imagine that Clinton is in a similar position. Her full view might well be, "McCain has more experience than Obama but Obama is superior in many other respects." The DUers who keep saying, "Well, McCain does have more experience than Obama" are missing the point. Just because it's true doesn't mean Clinton is required to say it. She's allowed to keep her mouth shut. She should know that the media will jump on her comment, and that McCain may well be able to use it in the fall. Her full opinion won't be reported. The presentation of only part of her opinion will be harmful -- like me voting in this poll.

[New Dawn]

73. Yes, she brazenly sided with the enemy. n/t