7 more weeks of this crap will collectively end any chance Dems have at winning the White House

[Unsane]

Good fucking riddance. If Obama wins TX, look for party elders to pressure Clinton to step aside. Seven more weeks of her "Obama will allow another 9/11, he might be muslim, look at his tribal dress, he supports Farrakhan, he has no experience, he's similar to George W. Bush" campaign will take its toll. She is horrible for the party at this point. No chance of winning the nomination; and her sole purpose is to slime the Dem candidate. It's like having a second GOP opponent to run against. Just awful. If she manages to win both OH and TX, good luck to her. But anything short of that, and she needs to drop out like yesterday. Christ.

[Metric System]

1. Then for the good of the party Obama should step aside.

[Unsane]

4. At this point I'm not sure I'd mind either way. We cannot have 7 more weeks of this, though.

We need a nominee NOW. Obama has more delegates and institutional backing.

[sfam]

73. Reality has to sink in at some point...

If there is no chance of winning the nomination that doesn't involve subverting the popular vote, Hillary HAS to bow out. Even her supporters must agree that getting the Sups to trump the overall delegate count will truly devestate our party - not just for this year, but for decades to come. We have a slew of new voters - they will all leave en mass if they think the election was stolen from them.

Now if Hillary can actually retake either the popular vote or the delegate vote, fine. I still say this will destroy our chances in November in that she'll essentially be trying to bring Obama down by sending them both through the mud, but at least it won't appear stolen. That way we just lose this year but keep the new voters.

[Unsane]

74. agree 100%

[cbayer]

6. WHAAAAA!!!!!1111

That was very funny.
:rofl:

[high density]

29. The winner chosen by the voters should step down?

Where do you live, Russia?

[maddiejoan]

2. I agree

Obama needs to step down and allow the candidate with the most Democratic Party support to be our nominee.

[frogcycle]

45. ding ding ding ding

don't know that i care for having a bunch of knuckledraggers telling me who my nominee should be

[muntrv]

3. Split conventions are not good for the Dems. See 1968 and 1980.

[Unsane]

54. '72 also

[boston bean]

5. shaddup, chillout. jesus, you are fear mongering. nt

[Unsane]

8. Fear mongering = Hillary's new ad campaign against our frontrunner.

[SOS]

56. Not fear mongering at all

Seven weeks of "the kitchen sink" in Pennsylvannia and PA goes to McCain.
The end.

[Unsane]

58. absolutely correct

[TommyO]

65. The mood here in PA is decidedly anti-Republican

I don't expect that to change over the next month and a half, even with heavy campaigning from both Obama and Clinton here in the Commonwealth.

[Unsane]

68. You havent tasted Hillary's kitchen sink yet.

[SOS]

94. Imagine

seven weeks of Obama and Clinton, spending millions, in a nasty, divisive PA primary battle...
Then look at the 2004 results:

John F. Kerry 2,885,773 51%
George W. Bush 2,756,904 49%

McCain is less polarizing than Shrub and the negative battle will hurt both Democrats.
This clearly puts PA within McCain's grasp.
Without PA we lose...again.

Oh well, there's always 2012.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

7. It either is all Hillary's, or she will destroy this election for Dems and hand it to McCain

She already is carrying the GOP on her back with the attacks in recent days.

[Unsane]

62. Agreed, and it's wrong

[AngryOldDem]

89. I said a long time ago that a HRC candidacy is the GOP's dream come true

Why do the heavy lifting when you can get someone else to do it for you? HRC can be as nasty as she wants to be in November against McCain. We'll see how well that works then.

[BootinUp]

9. Agreed, Obama should drop out after tonight. nt

[Unsane]

He's won more states and has more delegates. So I guess it's a fractured convention for you, then?

Hello President McCain (which is what Hillary wants anyway).

[BootinUp]

30. Does Obama want a fractured convention?

[Unsane]

33. Hello President McCain. Hello another 4 years of GOP judicial appointments.

[BootinUp]

34. I know, what the bleep is he thinking?! lol.

[Unsane]

35. Yeah lol having more delegates, votes, and institutional support! He should drop out!

:crazy:

[BootinUp]

39. I think the campaign with the big mo in a race

this close is the winner.

[Unsane]

40. Yes, the candidate who's gone 12-0 over the past month.

Probably 13-2 after tonight. And I'm being generous to you.

[BootinUp]

41. He seems to be losing momentum

from the polls and results coming in from Ohio as far as I can tell.

[Unsane]

42. Cutting a 20 point OH lead to a narrow loss is losing momentum? WOW

P.S. He's going to win TX.

[AZBlue]

44. Why should he drop out instead of Clinton?

[Unsane]

46. Because it's basically impossible for her to win more elected delegates than him?

[cbayer]

10. We will be just fine.

We have two incredible candidates and the infighting could just make us stronger in the end.

But to suggest that one or the other should drop out for the good of the party is undemocratic.

I have more faith in us than you do.

[Unsane]

14. In my view, primaries AREN'T about democracy.

It's about picking the best candidate and putting that candidate in the best position to win.

[cbayer]

27. And the process of picking the best candidate IS democracy.

Because we want the people to decide who is the best candidate. What other process could we use?

And the difficulty with this primary is that a lot of people like each of the candidates.

And lots of us like both of the candidates.

[jillan]

11. omg - you sound just like Chris Matthews. Are you turning into a tweety bird?

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. Figure that all that bad talk will stop if Hillary goes away do you?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

13. Agreed, Hillary needs to exit NOW!

[RememberWellstone]

15. I thought today

was the drop dead date? Moving the goal post again? Or is the reality setting in.

[Unsane]

20. Nope. Team Clinton is spinning an OH victory as reason to keep going.

Even though she literally will win no more delegates. It's almost comical.

[MichiganVote]

16. This "crap" is democracy. If you don't like it, move.

[nemo137]

57. I don't think the OP is talking about the voting

I think it's more about the vicious knife-fighting that's been going on the past month or two.

[Unsane]

61. Of course it's what I'm referencing.

The particular poster is a Hillary supporter, and wants a damaged, dragged out primary with a weakened nominee.

[mudesi]

17. Maybe that's EXACTLY what she wants

So she can run in 2012.

:puke:

[Medusa]

19. Bingo.

exactly

[Unsane]

21. Which is awful, and enough reason never to support her.

[HeraldSquare212]

28. Penn only loses if Obama wins the GE - his company is running McCain's campaign.

Who's interests are being served by Clinton staying in the race?

[Unsane]

52. crazy

[HeraldSquare212]

53. but true.

[dchill]

18. No it won't.

Look at Republican turnout. Go ahead, just look at it. No, really - look at it. Can you just do that first, please?

[Unsane]

24. There isn't a race on that side.

And the more fractured the Dem contest gets, the more likely the loser's voters will either abstain or vote McCain. A prolonged primary season is BAD NEWS.

[dchill]

31. But even when there WAS a race on that side...

Dems were turning out better than 2 to 1 over Repubs.

[PaDem]

71. people just don't get it..........

the single biggest GOP turnout mechanism in November would be Hillary Clinton if she were our nominee. Why isn't that obvious??

[Unsane]

72. I don't get it either.

[AngryOldDem]

90. Because people see what they want to see

And she comes with so many oppo talking points that we had all better get out our Whitewater/Rose Law Firm scorecards, because that's all going to come back with a vengeance. Guaranteed.

Just something to look forward to. :sarcasm:

[depakid]

22. and just what do you think the far right's going to do

if Obama "gets the nomination" early?

Play nice, because you "hope" they do? and because it's fair and time for change? Becuase Obama's "reached out" to them.

People certainly have short memories.

Actually, this stuff is mild thus far- and the longer it plays out, the longer we have before someone gets the full force of it.

[Unsane]

26. It would be 1 on 1.

[napi21]

86. THAT'S RIGHT depakid! All the Obamakins have been sooo upset

by all the "nastiness" of the Clinton campaign so far! I believe it's HELPING Barack! Whether you love or hate Hillary, you have to admit she's built up some tough body armor over the years from deflecting attacks of every kind from everywhere! Barack hasn't had that experience so far, and he NEEDS to be able to do that. The Pubs will not bother with the "kitchen sink", their starting point is the whold damn house and get worse from there! The stuff they throw doesn't have to have a seed of truth to it, as long as it's mean, nasty, and causes people to question their opposition.

Everybody keeps saying how awful it is that the Pubs have "their candidate" and we're still infighting. Why can't you look at it the other way? It can also be at least 7 weeks of TWO DEMS AGAINST ONE PUB!

[K Gardner]

23. She has nothing to offer. All she can do, as said on MSM tonight, is run a totally negative campaign

Pretty pathetic when you can't sell people on yourself and your only hope is to tear the other guy apart.

[Unsane]

55. Makes me question her motives

[global1]

25. The Person That Really Wins Is George W. Bush.......

cause if McCain or HRC win the presidency - neither will go after him and his corrupt administration. I say HRC will let Bush slide - because of the honor among former presidents and Bill would influence Hill to this end.

[Unsane]

43. agreed

[Pryderi]

32. All 796 superdelegates need to line up behind Obama for the good of the party

[Lilith Velkor]

63. Sieg Heil!

:eyes:

[Unsane]

64. lame

[Lilith Velkor]

79. The jackboot fits, motherfucker.

If it pinches, maybe you should take it off and deal with living in a democracy.

[FlyingSquirrel]

36. Disagree

As long as it ends fairly and reasonably, with superdelegates siding with the delegate leader in June, I think 5 months before the GE is plenty of time for us to come together. Also the stuff they are flinging at each other is pretty minor compared to what the Republican Slime Machine will dish out - the longer we can put that off the better (within reason). July or August (especially a brokered convention) would be damaging, but if it can be wrapped up democratically by mid-June that will be fine.

[riverwalker]

37. thanks Hillary

for turning a sure democratic win in November into a mud wrestling circus.

[Unsane]

38. yep

[mtnsnake]

47. wahhhhHHHHHHHHHHH

[blonndee]

48. That's how you feel about Dems losing in the GE? Somehow I'm not surprised.

[Unsane]

49. Thanks for the kick

My OP remains as salient as ever.

[Autumn]

50. I see no reason for either

of them to drop out.That is pathetic.

[Unsane]

51. Yes, seven more weeks of fear-mongering and infighting always works!

:crazy:

[TreasonousBastard]

59. Oh, bullshit-- you worry too much. This is great American...

political theater the likes of which we haven't seen in years.

I hate the millions it's costing that could be put to far better use, but watching these two go at it is great sport. Practice run for the real one when one of them get to use the newly-honed campaign skills to demolish McCain.

[Unsane]

60. simply wrong

7 weeks of Hillary's Kitchen Sink strategy in PA will hurt our nominee. See '68, '72, '80

[TreasonousBastard]

80. Huh?

1968-- In addition to Viet Nam, which was far more divisive than Iraq, RFK and MLK were assasinated and George Wallace ran a strong campaign actually winning some states and dividing the Democrats in others.

1972-- McGovern? You're blaming his defeat on the primary battles?

1980-- Same thing here-- you're blaming Carter's defeat on Ted Kennedy's run?

None of these years are comparable to what we have now, unless there's a major revolt in the party to whoever the candidate ends up being.

Right now, it looks like it's going to Pennsylvania for the decision, if even then.

But, so what if it goes to the convention? Most of our history it went to the convention and we got some good Presidents out of those smoke-filled rooms. And, of course, Kerry and Dukakis were chosen early on, but look what happened to them.

[citizen snips]

66. it's called democracy.

get over it.

[Forkboy]

69. That's right. And in a democracy we have the right to blow our own head off.

All cheer democracy! :)

[Forkboy]

67. Pretty much, but both sides are like pitbulls with a kitten in it's mouth.

They aren't going to let go until there's nothing but blood and guts left.

[madville]

70. We haven't even gotten to the court battles yet

That will drag on for months

[Unsane]

75. ugh

[Pryderi]

76. Rove is rubbing his hands with glee and laughing at the democrat party

[RB TexLa]

77. Hopefully Hillary has a "March or April Suprise" that will put an early end to it

[TheZug]

78. She won't. So we're screwed--and by we, I mean America.

[PresidentObama]

81. In case you didn't realize it, the election is November.

[shaniqua6392]

85. What the heck is the rush for some people?

Bill Clinton did not seal the nomination until June and then went on to win the White House.

[Unsane]

97. Nt true

but whatever

[ClericJohnPreston]

82. Guess she isn't dropping out yet

UNsane.

[amborin]

83. more vitriol from obama supporters

it just never stops

you hate Hillary, for no valid reason

Obama has a lot of negatives, but rather than acknowldege that, you attack Hillary, using right wing attack lies

it's like, if your candidate doesn't win, then the election was rigged (remember Hillary's win in New Hampshire and the allegations against her for winning, even asking for a recount)

and if your candidate doesn't win, the other is slime

Hillary is a brilliant progressive fighter, she had spent her entire adult career fighting to improve ordinary americans' lives

her brilliance is dazzling

so stop attacking Hillary, you are dividing the party

[Unsane]

91. No valid reason?

LOL

[OneBlueSky]

84. for the good of the party, they should both step aside . . .

and announce a "Draft Gore" movement . . .

[Frumious B]

88. How does a Democrat, either Democrat, win in November at this point?

I ask, because I am having a hard time envisioning a path to victory. Hillary's wins don't particularly seem to put much of a dent in her delegate deficit, but they definitely give her the fuel she needs to keep her campaign going and they might also staunch the trend of superdelegates moving towards Obama that we've seen in recent weeks. Obama still has that mathematical edge, but the shine has definitely come off him a bit and now he's going to have to field questions about his inability to close the deal. If Obama still ultimately prevails then he'll be damaged badly by an extended period of being tag teamed by Hillary and McBush. If Hillary comes back all the way then she'll probably be just as if not more damaged. It seems to me that either Democrat will end up being easy pickings for Old Man McBush. Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton might still be able to get it done, but I fear there is too much water under the bridge and too much bad blood between the two campaigns for that to happen.

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter how great the nominee is if they go out and lose. You can nominate the Second Coming of Jesus H. Christ (TM), but if they don't win in November then you might as well have nominated Mayor McCheese. I want a Democrat to win in November.

[Unsane]

92. Exactly right

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

87. 7 more weeks? Did a groundhog see its shadow?

Somehow, I think we'll survive seven weeks. Maybe even survive a brokered convention.

If the nominee is chosen before the convention, the convention makes for some pretty dull television. Floor fights, seating or denying MI/FL, super-d's, all that is more interesting if the count actually matters.

[Unsane]

93. Yes, it's about having fun TV!

Screw winning. I want an exciting convention says the Hillary supporter!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

95. Yes, it's about fun TV. And winning.

A good convention should get viewers involved. If the nominee is pre-selected, the convention puts people to sleep.

After that, there's enough time to push McCain's buttons, let him show his rug-biting temper tantrums. Let him talk his hundred-years-war. We should be able to win, no matter if the nominee is Obama, Clinton, or some convention surprise.

As to who I support, well, unfortunately, that campaign is suspended. So I support whoever is nominated.

[Unsane]

96. A fractured convention = losing

See '68, '72, '80

History is not on your side.