HRC and her supporters give 2008 to == MCCAIN! Thanks, guys!

[melody]

Then again, maybe that was Hillary's whole reason to exist.

I have started MAYBE five threads in all my time on DU -- this is one. I'm so mad at Hillary "it's all for me"
Clinton right now, I can't stand looking at this board.

MY candidate was John Edwards. He lost -- AND he had the good graces, selflessness and intelligence to get the
hell out of the race so people could move to one candidate. I moved when he left, to the strongest candidate with
the only real chance of being the nominee prior to the convention. I didn't pout in a corner and call names. I did
what was best for the Party. ANY Democrat (and my very last choice was HRC) was better than a Republican.

The last week, I saw someone I tremendously admired (along with many people on this board whom I admire) turn into an
angry, vengeful lunatic bent on destroying any chance of a clear Democratic nominee. That was the ONLY chance McCain
had to win ... the ONLY one. And you've all done it -- congratulations. You've been whipped up by the frenzy of the
media that became afraid to criticize her (just as the "liberal" media became a right-wing whorehouse) and the RW trolls
on this board bent to destroy us. The lemmings have won the day.

As far as I'm concerned, HRC is a spoiled child who killed her family because she couldn't be the head of it. I've never
been so angry at a Democrat in my life -- and I NEVER thought I would be at Hillary Clinton.

I'll respectfully ignore the flames to this. I'm so sick of this board right now ... and some of you able coach footmen to McCain
... I can't stand to read it for awhile. Have fun ripping the party apart. And pat yourselves on the back when McCain wins
-- and he will. You just gave it to him.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

1. .........

[1awake]

12. That pic is soo cute!

ok, to the op..

Go cool off some, I'm serious. Anger at ourselves serves no purpose and only makes the situation all the worse. Legit arguments can be made on both sides and what makes it difficult.. is none of us has a crystal ball to see the future. What will happen will happen, and we must come together as we are.. a family, and fight for our futures and our children's. Peace.

[2rth2pwr]

15. love it ! nt

[melody]

18. That's Hillary all right -- down to the blonde ringlets and attitude ;) n/t

[meow mix]

46. she'll think its real cute when president mccain is appointing rightwing judges

buncha bs

[melody]

54. She'll have her nice pile of blood money coming in

She and Bill will have their high security estate.

[aquart]

90. That is a lie. Defend it if you can.

[melody]

93. It's obvious. You REALLY think she thought what she did was for the good of the party?

She did what she did to benefit herself and the people who own her soul.

I NEVER would have expected this of Hillary. Right now, I'm only marginally less fond of McCain
than I am of Hillary Clinton.

[xmas74]

141. She did it for her supporters.

It's obvious there is still interest in her or she would have lost last night. There are people out there counting on her-why disappoin them?

Why would she drop out of the race? No one says she has to. If Obama were in the same situation I wouldn't expect him to drop-too many people are counting on him.

Democracy did not die last night. Last night was proof that it is alive and kicking. Last night was proof that we, the Democratic party, have a real race.

[nebula]

56. Where are the adults?

GD has officially turned into Romper Room.

[Diane R]

2. I agree with every word. Hillary is a narcissist who will destroy our party and McCain will be pres

[melody]

88. Amen n/t

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JAbuchan08]

113. There has never been a female narcissist...

it's physiologically impossible. :sarcasm:

[Hepburn]

117. Exactly....

....A Hillary Nomination = the Democratic Party in a mass suicide.

After all the years I watched this, I thought after McGovern and Dukakis that we had learned something. Apparently not. Here we are in 2008 with Hillary supporters willing to sacrifice the Dem chances and ensure a Pubbie Mc Cain presidency all for the sake of their egos and that of their queen.

:puke:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

3. BAHHHHHHH ROARRRRRRR SNARFFFFF GARBLE GARBLE ROARRRRRR!!!!!!

[melody]

30. OMC, center of my ignore list, who only appears during DefCon+ ... n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. Mwah!

:loveya:

[Strelnikov_]

151. Top of mine n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. Obama lost. Hillary ran a better campaign.

[nebula]

59. Hillary has ran a Swiftboat campaign

not better, just far dirtier.

[Ravy]

73. Curious, what false charges did she level against Obama?

I know he has been mischaracterizing her IWR vote since pretty much the start. His campaign has labeled them racists.

What has she said about him that is unarguably false?

[nebula]

82. Have you been living in a cave?

[aquart]

85. Answer the question.

Still waiting.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

123. That his lifetime experience is one speech, for starters. n/t

[MADem]

140. Cue the Jeopardy theme!!! I have a feeling you'll wait in vain for an answer!

:rofl:

[Pawel K]

147. You can start here

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/01/clintons_are_lying_about_obama.html

Once you are done with that one let me know and I'll post the next lie.

[Pawel K]

154. Now I'm still waiting for you to reply

hypocrisy anyone? I posted a lie above, let me know when you want me to post the next one.

[Ravy]

86. Nope. I guess you couldn't come up with any, either. nt

[Kitty Herder]

79. I agree. That's why I've lost the respect I once had for her. nt

[aquart]

94. Didn't behave like a good little woman? Too damn bad.

[Pawel K]

149. What does her being a woman have anything to do with it?

what the hell is wrong with you people? Have you gone batshit insane because of these primaries? She behaved like a person that didn't care for the party. She lied about Obama, she pretty much said he was unfit to be president, she has lied about his war record, she has lied about his nafta record. This has nothing to do with "behaving like a good little woman". That sounds as insane as defending anything negative Obama has done with something stupid like "Didn't behave like a good like negro? Too damn bad." Do you honestly not see how fucking crazy that sounds?

[emilyg]

152. Don't confuse them with facts.

[sanjiadem]

5. Sour grapes are just, well

sour.

[grasswire]

6. I'm sorry, but you sound delusional

What you say is so different from what I think is reality, especially regarding the media. Coverage of Obama has been soft. Coverage of Hillary, on the other hand, has been extremely harsh. And I'm not even a Hillary supporter.

It's probably time to take a break and do something else for a while.

Peace.

[melody]

11. It's not delusional at all, I'm a very sane person -- it's the nature of the political gameboard

The HRC people have killed our chances in 2008 ... and they stand about celebrating the fact.

[mtnester]

75. Thanks for having faith in your party

appreciate that

[melody]

76. As I said to you before, I had faith in Clinton not to kill it

I was wrong.

My faith in my party is fine -- it's my trust in Hillary Clinton that is dead.

[aquart]

89. Thanks for the insult. OTOH, if Obama hadn't played the race card...

Maybe he wouldn't have been able to guilt America into that 11-streak.

But then, your real issue is that you don't want a woman going up against a soldier. Only you know how nasty that would sound.

[Lilith Velkor]

125. Guilt Democrats, you mean

It never seems to occur to Obama supporters that their coveted Repubs and RW independents are immune to such guilting.

[melody]

127. Oh, please -- and you don't want a black man to beat out a white woman?

I don't believe that, but apparently you honestly think this has ANYTHING to do with Hillary's gender.

I was a feminist probably before you were born. Being a feminist means being for GENDER EQUALITY. I'm
not going to vote for someone simply because they are female any more than I would vote for someone
because she is white.

[hfojvt]

55. coverage of Hillary has not been uniformly harsh

NBC puffed her up before the Nevada caucus

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2700381

and CBS recently puffed her up in a profile while their profile of Obama was equal parts positive and negative.

[Carolina]

105. oh really?!

I have yet to see anyone challenge her on what exactly constitutes her 35 years of experience when 20 of it is derivative from being Bill's wife. I guess next time I need surgery, I should go to the surgeon's spouse!

Anyway, on experience McCain has her beat because he not only has more, but his is HIS!

[PresidentObama]

7. Your post is bullshit. Which is why DU doesn't matter in the big picture.

[ClayZ]

8. Lift foot, aim, fire!

[rug]

9. Ok, so Clinton supporters have endorsed MCCain and are now traitors. Right?

[NMMatt]

10. She won't get my vote that's for sure -nt

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

61. Hillary has in so many words endorsed McCain, so apparently...

her plan to get him in the White House is working just fine.

[aquart]

96. Another lie. She did all this work for McCain, not her own candidacy?

Even you must know it's a lie. Apologize if you have that much honor.

[Carolina]

102. or mine

[emilyg]

153. We should care?

[NMMNG]

13. Uh-huh

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. Oh puhleeeeeeeze. Hillary will kick McCain's ASS back to Arizona!

Hillary won all the IMPORTANT states that DEMOCRATS need to win the GE!

As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Hope is a spoiled child who killed his family because he couldn't be the head of it.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! :cry::cry::cry:

[SleeplessinSoCal]

63. Among Dems who would vote for a Dem normally anyway

[SammyWinstonJack]

122. Obama too a tee!

:thumbsup: Wouldn't even serve his full Senate term, even though he promised to do exactly that . It apparently wasn't good enough for him. Obama is all about Obama! x(

[Hepburn]

16. IMO, I have resigned myself to the fact that Hillary is going to be...

...forced upon us and we can therefore all say, "President-Elect McCain" come this November. I hope the Hillary supporters will he as happy as they are tonight when this happens. Hillary has -0- chance of beating McCain.

She is being brought to all of us by the Repubs who know that McCain can beat her, but cannot beat Obama.

[melody]

22. precisely -- well put n/t

[MidwestTransplant]

42. So cynical. It's like you realy believe that a person can't win when 55% of the population says

they will NEVER vote for them. Hmmmmf....Debbie downer :)

[Kitty Herder]

84. Yep. Say hello to four more years of Republican bullshit. nt

[aquart]

95. Why? Are you planning not to vote Democratic?

If you can't get your way, will you and every Obama supporter sit in a corner and sulk like an ill-bred child? That IS the threat, isn't it? That you don't have the maturity for actual politics, just herd-following idolatrous, mindless worship?

[Phillycat]

136. Uh-huh.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4906406&mesg_id=4906406

[Liberal Veteran]

17. What worries me is since going negative paid off for her, she'll continue...

....and there will never be any healing done in this country.

[Nutmegger]

19. Who recommended this nonsense?

I bet I can name them off the top of my head ... :puke:

[2rth2pwr]

20. Time for Obama to step down for the good

of the party.

[melody]

25. When Hillary has no chance of getting enough delegates?

Do you understand the mechanics involved?

[MADem]

39. You apparently don't. You are counting chickens that haven't hatched.

Three words-- Rep. John Lewis.

You don't think people can't, or won't, roll over? You think the momentum only goes one way?

You don't think Super Delegates are gonna hold their fire now?
Come on.

The "Three Stooges" in Massachusetts are getting an EARFUL for their callous disregard of the "Will of the People." Some people think that the popular vote matters, and all politics is local, after all.


No "pledged vote" counts for shit until it is cast. And that's just for starters.

Get used to it--this thing is going forward, even if the Obama Wannas don't want it to continue.

[aquart]

98. Lewis changed to Obama. You think he'd change again?

I can't imagine it was an easy or thoughtless decision. I know Rangel has said that superdelegates will NOT be used to overrule the will of the people. But if it's down to the wire even steven? I don't know what that would mean.

But no way in hell should either of them withdraw. Let's actually try democracy. Who knows? It could work.

[MADem]

110. My point wasn't about his specific vote, but only that he changed it. And others might, too,

depending on what happens as this whole adventure plays out.

He cracked the door open and slid through. That gives a little wiggle room for others to do the same, to represent the sense of their constituents instead of their own hubris-laden or sincere desires.

Lewis did it because he wanted to represent the sense of his constituents (and he figured they'd hand him his ass if he didn't--an opportune challenger might crop up at the last minute), something the Three Stooges in Massachusetts don't seem to appreciate. They're catching some flak for it, too...as they should!

[TheDeathadder]

23. How dare you?

We Clinton people are Democrats.

[donheld]

24. This Obama supporter says to stop your sobbing

[melody]

28. Not sobbing -- I've 20+ years of election experience behind me ... we've lost

And it's all due to our own party.

We can't blame this on the right wing. We did it to ourselves.

[donheld]

49. That doesn't give you the right to give in to McCain

We fight another day. Yes we're tired and worn out, but we rest up and fight on.

[melody]

53. I'm not giving in -- I'm merely facing facts. The battle is still worthy, but it's lost

And we can't blame the right wing this time -- it was our own party that did it.

[aquart]

104. Slap yourself. IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID!

We will be in BANK FAILURE by November. Think McCain can cope with that? DID YOU LOOK AT THE TURNOUT?

700,000 Texans voted for McCain. DOUBLE that number voted for Hillary Clinton. Not Hillary and Obama. ONLY HILLARY. You really think 700,000 of those votes were troublemaking Republicans? The Republicans don't like their candidates. They SAY they'll rally against Hillary? THEY HAVE NOT DONE IT.

Get a fucking grip. You're having hysterics. Apply a little arithmetic.

[melody]

126. I'm the one who has been citing those statistics on McCain -- I used to think that, too

I don't anymore. This will be stretched out so long that we won't be ABLE to take on McCain.
There will be NO TIME to do this.

Hillary has doomed us. It's not hysterics. It's a simple fact of the nomination process.

[JackCo]

129. Rarely put my opinon out but..

A little background first. I liked Kucinich, Edwards, and then Obama. I have nothing against Clinton except for the fact that I honestly do not believe she can beat McCain. I think he has the potential to be worse than Bush and I don't want my son drafted for some idiotic trumped up war. My dh is former military and was serving during the first Gulf War but never saw overseas service so I'm not anti-war just anti-stupidity.

The Republicans had no reason to go vote for McCain because the writing on the wall told of his impending nomination. Now whether they voted for Clinton I don't know. But, I doubt enough did crossover just to help her out. The Republicans may not like McCain but they "hate" Clinton.

It will take crossover Republicans and Independents to win a Democratic Presidency. I just don't see any Republican ever voting for Clinton and there are many Independents who share those sentiments. Make no mistake the rally round will come if Clinton receives the nomination.

I will vote for whomever our nominee turns out to be but I have more confidence that Obama can overcome based solely on the hatred spewed by Republicans of the Clintons.

[madmom]

148. The battle is only lost if people like you keep saying it is, remember the last

election when people got so mad about the "projections" from the msm? They were calling the election before the west coast even voted so a lot of people didn't bother to vote. So now you are doing the same thing by saying the election is lost if Hillary gets the nom. people are gonna see that and say "well if that's the case why bother"? That's EXACTLY why we have to stand behind the dem candidate no matter who it is, period!:banghead:

[MADem]

51. With that kind of attitude, it's a good thing they're aren't more of you.

Maybe you should stop "helping" eh? Particularly in national contests...

Talk about "Debbie Downer!"

When I do my crappy little "election" helping, I employ Rule One: Stay Upbeat. Even if I'm working for a candidate in a general election that I did NOT support in a primary.

And I sure as hell don't whine and cry about "Abandon Hope" scenarios nine fucking months before the election.

:eyes:

[melody]

52. Not a "downer" -- just simple reality -- being upbeat in the face of destruction is useless

I'm the first person to preach being upbeat. I'm usually the one shouting down the naysayers.
Sorry, but I NEVER would have expected this from a Clinton or her team. I am stunned beyond
words at the destruction caused our party.

[MADem]

58. Destruction? Hyperbolic, much?

Please.

Clinton didn't do anything that any politician wouldn't have done.

Saint Obama isn't "untouchable." You need to understand that. And start dealing with it.

And if he gets all testy and crumples under such light pressure, imagine what a display of pouting, whining, foot-stomping and pure drama we'd get if the Swiftboaters, in assisting the McCain campaign, went after him?

Better to test the mettle now, than find out in September that the guy is a wuss who can't take a fucking punch.

Sorry. I don't buy your soap opera-like drama.

"The Destruction" of our party isn't going to happen. We're going to be stronger for this, no matter how it turns out.

[melody]

66. I wish I didn't know as much about cultural anthropology and primate interaction as I do

Unfortunately, I do.

This is the end. No hyperbole intended -- no more so than when a doctor finds no pulse on the patient.
Just a diagnosis.

[MADem]

67. Well, when the election comes and goes, and our party continues on, strong as ever,

you'll forgive me if I laugh uproariously and fart a bit in your general direction. Cultural anthropology? Primate interaction? Give me a break, Professor Goodall!
:rofl:

You're being excessively dramatic. And you're acting that way solely because your team lost this evening.

The patient is alive and well, but you're just so pissed off you WANT the patient dead. That's your problem. It's not a terribly nice sentiment, IMO.

[melody]

71. Fart in my general direction? Well, that's very base primate behavior for you

No, I've been working to save the party -- you're all just sitting around celebrating, not realizing you've
murdered your own party. You're like those people out there with their McMansions, spending money they don't have and won't
ever make. The Clintons and their supporters did what the Republicans had never been able to do -- congratulations.

On that note, welcome to my ignore list ... it's a first trip for you, but it's probably an overdue one.

Incidentally, Professor Jane Goodall is a primatologist, not a cultural anthropologist.

[MADem]

77. No offense, but cut the crap. And DO put me on that "ignore list" of yours.

Because I'd prefer not to engage with hubris-laden drama queens anyway. You DO know that when you make the "dramatic announcement" that you actually HAVE to follow through--it's in those DU rules everyone seems to ignore nowadays.

I don't live in a "McMansion" and I don't spend money I don't have. In fact, my house is paid for, my car is paid for (it's old but fuel efficient), I eschew credit, and if I buy it, I save for it. That's the way I've always lived.

But see, you've got to pretend you "know" me in order to try to "rescue" your disordered, poorly thought out, bullshit point. It didn't work, though, because I am not "sitting around celebrating" in a McMansion or a fucking teepee, and the party is alive and well--no thanks to slash-and-burn whiners such as yourself, though.

The real point, though, if we're really gonna get down to it, is that you're pissed off that the American people didn't glug down the Kool Aid, so you're banging a stake into the heart of the Democratic Party as an act of REVENGE. And getting pissed at me--childishly, too, I might note--because I'm calling you on your bullshit.

Uh, the reason I mentioned Goodall is because YOU mentioned primates. Sorta like "You say bull, and I say shit." Capisce?

:eyes:

So long, Drama Queen, even though you can't see this, as you will have put me on your precious "Ignore" list--you won't be missed!

[ronnykmarshall]

128. She can add me TOO!

PLEASE !!! PLEASE!!! PUT ME ON IGGY!

Oh fuck it, I'll just add her.

[MADem]

137. Heh heh!!! NT

[pingzing58]

26. What's the phrase? Oh, yes... SOUR GRAPES!!!!!

[MADem]

60. I keep suggesting a bit of sugar or honey to make them go down easier... nt

[MonkeyFunk]

27. Stupid voters!

[Pachamama]

29. I think if HRC doesn't leave the race, it will bloody the democratic party and your right, a McCain

Presidency in 2008.

Interestingly enough, I was talking with a whole bunch of people today who said that the recent negative campaigning by the Clinton campaign against Obama has turned them off so much from her that they will refuse to vote for her if she is the nominee. Everyone I was talking to said they would write-in Obama's name on the ballot and several even said that they would vote for McCain if the choice is him or HRC.

It's so truly pathetic and laughable....only the Democratic Party could figure out how to shred itself and lose after 8 years of Republican Bush destruction.....uneffing believable.... :puke:

[Skoods]

31. She won all the big/key states...Obama won the small, useless EV states

that he wont win in November...If Obama is nominated, McCain wins the GE by a 301-237 margin.

[VotesForWomen]

133. yep; O wins little red states that we'll never get in the GE. the dem party needs to take a sober

at what that means.

[ClericJohnPreston]

32. I'm as fierce an Edwards supporter as they come

and you are why I call Obama supporters, OBAMANATIONS. You are clearly without perspective or objectivity...which makes you the perfect Obamaton.

By the way, I never saw you in any threads I started on Edwards....

[meow mix]

34. yup, ludicrous to think she can win a GE. this is a disaster

[Beacool]

35. Bitter?????

You don't get it, do you? Hillary is not doing this for herself, she's doing it for the millions of people who see in her our hopes (yes HOPE, Obama doesn't own the word) and dreams. Millions of people have voted for Hillary and will continue do so until this nomination is defined.

If that makes you unhappy, so be it.........


:shrug:

[hfojvt]

64. that just seems so naive

and also arrogant of Hillary. Only Hillary can save those millions of people. No other Democrat can or will do it. Not Obama, not Edwards, not Gore, not Kerry. Only Hillary. She is our only hope. And even if she cannot win the nomination, she can at least keep tearing down Obama to make things easier for the Republicans in 2008. Then maybe she can save us in 2012.

[MADem]

36. You're so sick of this board now? Taking the old ball and going home, eh?

Go back and look at the bullshit that preceded this latest round.
You're only sick of it because it's YOUR ox getting gored.

Clinton wins PRIMARIES in LARGE and INDUSTRIAL states. Battlegrounds.

Obama wins caucus contests, with attendance orchestrated by paid "organizers," in rural and red states that he wouldn't win in a general election anyway.

There are no caucus opportunities in general elections. It's only voting booths come November. And Obama doesn't bring it in the voting booth in those BIG states like TX and CA and NY and Ohio...

Obama is the more likely candidate to give us President McCain, if you are going to play THAT particular Fear Card.

Your rant is pretty pathetic, though. I support Clinton, but I'll vote for Obama if I have to in the general. Not enthusiastically, but I will do it. People like YOU with the "spoiled child" rants (which might well be projection, no?) are the ones "ripping the party apart" -- even if you don't realize it.

I got some news for you--what you saw this last week was DELICATE politics. The gloves have NOT come off. What, you think John McCain would play the "Bow at the waist, How Do You Do My Good Man" routine with Obama? That old codger spent five and a half years in the Hanoi Hilton--he UNDERSTANDS the elements of torture...and he would slap the living shit out of Obama and wipe the floor with him--and what you've seen up to now would be regarded as ... ladylike... in comparison. McCain also, even when he loses his temper, can fire for TREMENDOUS effect in the heat of intense anger. I wouldn't underestimate McCain's willingness to rip the living shit out of Obama. He's less likely to do that with Clinton, though, because he comes from a different generation that regards that sort of locker room behavior as "untoward" when directed at a woman.

[ficus1]

37. Tightly contested primary = general election loss

It's held true for the last 50 years, no reason to think it won't hold true this year.

[Carolina]

107. excellent point and welcome to DU!

[bling bling]

38. It's almost heart-breaking to see this

Hillary can't take the lead without bludgeoning Obama. Hillary's supporters aren't thinking like team-players of a party. They've become truly repulsive to me in their nastiness. About 3 years ago on this site I declared that it's really easy to determine what the Republicans are up to or what they're guilty of...just listen to what they accuse the Democrats of doing. That's *exactly* how people who support Hillary seem to me now.

We're getting a little taste lately of the "both sides are doing it" crap the media used to play when the Repbulicans were attacking below the belt and the media would equivocate something dispicable the Republicans did to something trivial on our side. I'm seeing in the media lately such things as the "campaigns are getting vicious with each other" shit because Hillary launches an attack ad and Obama responds with a similar theme aimed at defending himself.

The Republicans played to the public's fears, to terrorism, to anti-muslim sentiment. Look who's doing the same.

Hillary can't win enough delegates to win this without damaging us. And yet her supporters who stick out their tongues and belly-laugh at our disappointment of that are the same people who will angrily demand we kiss their asses and "court" them when Obama manages to pull out the win....despite being bloodied as hell BECAUSE OF THEM!!

I'm pretty much losing my interest in this anymore. There's not nearly the joy in Obama winning as there should be. It's a shame. I'm feeling disappointed that it's going to have to go down like this. By the time it's over a good percentage of Democrats might very well not vote for the Democrat in November due to this battle. Of all the years for us to self implode....

A democratic civil war. Yippee. And if Hillary Clinton damages the party to be the victor the Republicans will not only win in November but mark my word they'll be like vultures swooping down and opportunizing on this grand chance to finally woo African Americans to their side. And the political climate of this side may be just slimey enough to make ANYTHING else look appealing.

[leftstreet]

40. Excellent post

Thank you.

I haven't been impressed with either candidate, but I hear a lot of people saying that if Hillary's the nominee they'll either vote McCain, or just not vote. (LOL Not DU people. Real people.)

[Carolina]

109. Hi bling

I feel exactly as you:

"I'm pretty much losing my interest in this anymore. There's not nearly the joy in Obama winning as there should be. It's a shame. I'm feeling disappointed that it's going to have to go down like this. By the time it's over a good percentage of Democrats might very well not vote for the Democrat in November due to this battle. Of all the years for us to self implode...."

:hug:

[bling bling]

114. hi Carolina

Thanks for the hug. I needed it. I'm so disappointed.

I was looking forward to uniting today and taking a break from politics for awhile. Looks like that's not going to happen but I still think I need to just focus my attention elsewhere for awhile. I decided tonight that from now on I'm going back to my general boycott of cable news. I lifted my boycott on the day of the Iowa primary! But I think I've had enough of "ballot bowl." The media do more harm than good to our party overall and I'm not into the "snub-gate" type news, anyway, which is the media's specialty.

Hugs to you too.

:hug:

[Carolina]

124. gosh we are kindred spirits

I did likewise. I wasn't following politics because I hate the bloviating cable news guys who had already designated Hillary as the apparent, annointed one (I stopped liking her after IWR and my dislike grew to loathing with this campaign especially the fact that we never saw a "shame on you" directed at GWB throughout the past 7 years...).

Anyway, two things happened:

1) I was at a dinner meeting in November with nearly all White southern men. Politics came up and I sat quietly even though many knew I was a Dem. They all started talking about Obama... in such positive, hopeful ways I couldn't believe my ears.

2) IOWA!

Then the crowds, the energized young people who reminded me of myself in the 60s... I started to hope again and started watching MSNBC, CNN, etc. instead of LIFETIME rerun escapism.

But now I hear ya... back to Reba and the Golden Girls

Take care , Dearie

[barack the house]

41. We'll be fine don't worry Barack is sill ahead in delegates. Just gotta keep pushing

pushing forward.

[bling bling]

50. It's not about the primary. Not too many people think Hillary can

win the primary. Not too many *rational* people, I should say.

This is about the party being in a civil war and the possibility of a very bitter party divided into two factions going into the convention.

If the bitterness causes Clinton's supporters to stay home or vote McCain, then we've lost the biggest opportunity we've had to beat the Republicans with a massive level of Democratic support. We ought to be united right now but instead we're watching "ballot bowl" played out on MSNBC and it's almost becoming nauseating for even Democrats like myself to watch. I'm over it. I'm sure that will be the general feeling real soon among the country. People are going to have had enough of the Democratic Party daily drama real soon. It's not exactly the most appealing thing to get on board with a party at war with itself. Goodbye independents. McCain will be able to claim the high road, he'll appeal to people who are wary of the drama and he'll be viewed by default as the "adult" running for President and the Dems will look stupid and childish flashing pictures of each other wearing costumes and mocking each other like little children.

It's revolting.

If Hillary Clinton wins by Superdelegates the Democratic Party as we know it is over, probably for decades. The dynamics of our party will very likely be changed. We'll go from the opportunity to be more united than EVER, to being damaged and deflated and the Republicans will win. But it'll be worse than that, the Republicans will seek to change their dynamics as well and pick up some of the previously loyal Democratic voters who feel like the party is fucking a useless sack of shit with no principled leadership. If you can't win even when you have the most delegates, then what's the fucking point of all the money and groundwork for the people running? Just make it a Superdelegate party from now on and the Superdelegates can be the ones to donate all their money and time working to battle it out between themselves whoever they want to lead their party.

[truebluecollar]

43. Well, let's maintain a modicum of hope here and

remember for a Republican, John McCain is damned good man. He took it on the chin for Old Glory for five years as a POW, his Senate record of continuously reaching across the aisle to solve this nation's problems above his colleague's bickering has been positively admirable, and unsourced NYT articles aside, he is amongst the least loved legislators on K Street. He's not a complete nut-job idealougue and for that the right-wing noise machine despises him. Even if he's compromised vast swaths of his virtue to attain his party's nomination, we as Americans are fortunate to have this capable and honorable man vying to be our president. I wish I believed the same about the Clintons. I believe the days ahead will try this nation severely, we will be be in desperate need of true leadership that the Clinton/Bush style of governing by partisan electioneering simply does not provide. If this nation cannot have the clarion chords of unity a President Obama can command, I truly fret her safety in the triangulating hands of the Clintons. A President McCain may not heal, but perhaps may stanch the bleeding of this country's soul.

[Chulanowa]

48. How much do you charge for your snake oil, sir?

Just because John McCain is the Joseph Lieberman of the Republican party doesn't make him even close to good for us.

[Carolina]

111. and Hillary Libermann is?

Hillary of finger in the wind, of kitchen sink mode is?

[CyberPieHole]

44. Actually, if anyone were to give the election to McCain it would be The Chicago Charlatan, Obama.

but thanks for your concern.:hi:

[Fox Mulder]

45. I couldn't agree with you more.

About Hillary, not her supporters.

[Medusa]

47. IF she's the nominee in November, we lose.

and if she stays in this race for the next 7 weeks and continues her "kitchen sink" strategy, Obama loses in November, either way, we're fucked yet again.

[Justitia]

57. Ive been a staunch Clinton supporter since the early 90s, never wavered. This week killed it for me

I LOVED the Clintons. Defended and supported them through thick and thin. Hell, some of my friends worked in his Governors office in Arkansas and when THEY abandoned him, I stuck by both Hillary and Bill.

There were always little things that bugged me but I pushed them into the back corners of my mind because I thought it was more important to defend them against the republican onslaught.

Now, all these years later, those things that I hoped weren't true about them are proving to be true.
Anybody who knows the Clintons, knows what I mean and what those things are.

This past week was when I could no longer fool myself about the Clintons and I'm done trying.

I don't want a weak Democratic party when we're making the first headway in years.
I don't want to get our asses kicked by McCain in November.

I can't even look at the nice note Hillary wrote me back in 2003 without feeling nauseous.

I'm done with them. Maybe it really is time to break out the "kitchen sink" strategy, to stop them from completely destroying the Democratic party.

[Name removed]

Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

68. Oh sure...and I've a bridge for sale! Ya wanna buy it? NT

[Justitia]

69. Like I give a fuck what you think. -eom

[MADem]

72. Likewise, I'm sure.

Here, eat up!

[Justitia]

74. Such a smartass, yet so fucking dumb. -eom

[MADem]

78. Keep it up--it's good for everyone to see what you're made of. NT

[Justitia]

80. I've seen your caustic, sarcastic posts for a looooong time. You just like to stir up bullshit

and I am 100% not interested in your act.

So, go bother someone else who could give a shit.

[MADem]

81. Look who's talking? Why do you keep replying if you're "not interested?" NT

[Justitia]

83. Quit fucking stalking me.

[MADem]

87. Stalking you? I haven't been online in days. Get over yourself. Why don't you stop stalking ME?

Hmmmmmmmmm?

:rofl:

What clever retort might I look forward to, next, I wonder?

[Justitia]

91. Welcome to my Ignore list.

[MADem]

97. Wonderful!! Another Drama Queen bites the dust!

The tear bags hang so low around here today!

[grasswire]

130. I hope I'm never on the opposite side from you.

You are wicked good at spanking crybabies.

[MADem]

134. When someone puts forward a patently insincere argument, I tend not to

have much patience. I just can't buy an argument that "this" was the "final straw" to cause support for the candidate to suddenly, magically, waver. This was a "sour grapes" diatribe disguised as something else. And the real 'offense' was that it wasn't even a good disguise.

I don't mind opposing views at all, in fact, I think they're to be expected and they're healthy to discuss, because people will shape and sharpen their own views with a genuine back-and-forth exchange. Sometimes, one can change one's mind with new information, too--though that is less likely here at DU, during this election at this late stage. But the discussion has to be "genuine"--that's the key. I simply can't abide those who hide amongst "the enemy" and then loudly pretend to have had an epiphany that makes it impossible to continue supporting said candidate! It just has that "aroma" about it, if ya know what I mean!

[OnionPatch]

145. I could swear

those look like tomatoes to me. :shrug:

[Carolina]

112. you and me too, Justitia

I was such a staunch defender in the 90s, here in the deep RED south where I got in many a fight.

Now I wonder, perhaps the wingnuts had a reason for their visceral hatred 'cause that's how I feel watching this campaign.

HRC won't win in November and now she has destroyed Obama. I loathe her (starting with her calculating IWR vote) and will never vote for her.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

62. Who would support an Obama run as an Indie?

It's entirely possible the brokered convention will break the Party. And that is where the Dems are headed. I'm willing to go with Obama if he wants to run as and Independent. And I think many indies and some Republicans as well would go for him. The numbers of people he has drawn to the process is record breaking. And a run as an Indie would show real change.

[JeanGrey]

65. Boy they are loving this over on Free Republic

I am starting to feel ill...................

[hfojvt]

70. that's almost exactly how I feel

but it is going to be impossible to convince most Hillary supporters/Obama haters of this. They live in some sort of alternate reality where Hillary really is a fighter for ordinary people. Where it is vitally important for her to win the nomination to save us from a rookie that the RWNM will have for breakfast. Where she really didn't promote the Iraq war and where Obama really would have if he'd been in the Senate, and where Rezko bought a house for Obama.

It seems as impossible to bridge that divide as it is to convince a Bush supporter of his perfidity. If you call him a liar, they call you a liar. Try to point out something bad he has done and they will just spin and attack.

Like Nader voters too, if our dire predictions come to pass, they will refuse to blame either Hillary or themselves.

I suppose that's human nature "given a choice between changing their minds and proving that there is no need to do so, most people will get busy on the proof."

[Liberal Dose]

99. Totally agree with you. I never thought I'd see the day when I would loathe Hillary and have no

respect left for Bill. I'm not voting for Obama because I am enthralled with him. I'm voting for him because he is NOT HRC. Not a lot of difference between the two except that Hillary is DLC, and DLC is GOP. It's not even GOP-lite, but straight up GOP all the way. I wish John Edwards had hung in there just a little while longer.

[Carolina]

100. totally agree with you, melody

the part that still gets me more than anything else is HRC's hypocrisy:

She and her supporters talk of her being a fighter, but the ONLY outrage we have seen from her during the past 7 years has been toward another Democrat about some campaign flyers... when was that "shame on you" ever directed at Bush?!

These wins are pyrrhic victories because she will lose in November -- repukes hate her, indies will not lean her way and now she has alienated many Dems who will simply abstain from voting for the top of the ticket.

Moreover McCain will use her own words about experience against her because he's not only got more, his is bona fide and really his. NOT derived from being someone's spouse.

K&R

[Liberal Dose]

103. My husband said the exact same thing when we saw the "shame on you" bullshit. "Now show us the video

of Hillary yelling shame on you to the chimp.Oh. Right. There are none."

:hi:

[acmavm]

101. You're just pissed because your boy Barrie didn't win. Now shouldn't he

quit? I mean all last week Obamaniacs were saying if Hillary didn't take Texas and Ohio she needed to get out and let Barrie be annointed as the Chosen One.

Well, HE didn't take Ohio and Texas. Shouldn't he just go away now?

[BlackVelvet04]

106. Democracy sucks, eh?

having a little temper tantrum? Waaaaaaaaaaah.

[shaniqua6392]

108. Why do you hate Democracy?? n/t

[Cass]

115. So, people who vote for Hillary are traitors to the Democratic party?

Unbelieveable. Voters have every right to cast a vote for whomever they please, even if you don't like it. Get over yourself.

Your post is bullshit.

[readmoreoften]

116. I'm embarrassed that you ever supported Edwards.

[Der Blaue Engel]

118. So am I

Just when I think people on this site can't go any crazier, I read something like this.

[Phillycat]

138. No shit.

[hogwyld]

119. Amen to that!! I've gotta get out of here for a while

The bullshit answer with his religion, along with the rest of her attacks of personal destruction, not issues based, but just the nasty divisiveness of the woman, will guarantee a McCain presidency. I for one will sit home if she's the nominee if for no other reason that to win it, she'll need to resort to more dirty politics, and a lot of backroom dealing.

[IsItJustMe]

"Spoiled child that killer her parents"? You have a way with words that cut to the heart of the

matter, and man, you are right on.

For me, how you win is as important as winning. I can't stand even looking at HRC, I think it's time I get my ass on out of here also before I become a troll against Hillary. Three weeks ago I felt totally different and I would have voted for her in the General.

[democrattotheend]

120. I've said for a while that she's running for 2012

It's still unlikely that she will get the nomination, and I am not saying she is deliberately trying to hurt Obama's chances in the general, but I don't think she particularly cares if she does or not.

[Blu Dahlia]

121. The math will NEVER be in her favor. She can only win through trickery now

[ElboRuum]

131. If you are going to ignore the flames, why bother with the flamebait? n/t

[VotesForWomen]

132. wow. a peak at the irrationality and cult devotion of obama supporters. nt

[LanternWaste]

135. Should I vote against my conscious for "the good of the party"?

I voted my conscious last night. I don't think lemmings do that.

Was I supposed to do something else? Should I have voted against my conscious for "the good of the party", or to assuage the delicate sensibilities of other Democrats?

Should we turn ourselves over to a monolithic voice of someone else's reasoning, or stay true to our own hearts and minds?

What one person may see as an "all or me attitude" could just as validly be called "a fighting spirit"-- it all depends on what glasses we're wearing I suppose.

I didn't give McCain anything. Come to think of it, I didn't give Clinton anything either-- she earned my vote just as Edwards and now Obama has earned yours.

[AtomicKitten]

139. Democrats have been traditionally perceived as weak on national security & Clinton reinforced it.

On top of the fact that she has run what will probably be the worst Democratic campaign evah, she lobs at Obama the very thing that will sink her. She will be called upon to expand on that "35 years experience." To date, her national security adviser, Jamie Rubin, when asked to list her actual experience stated it is the "Women's Conference in China" circa 1995. Another of her surrogates named her visit to 80 countries as her bonafides on national security.

John McCain will now run with the 3:00 A.M. to his advantage regardless of which Democrat is the nominee.

Well done, Ms. Thang. That sound you hear is your future political career careening into a ditch.

[Maddy McCall]

142. What a silly little temper tantrum.

[MyNameGoesHere]

143. Godammit! I missed the GE already? WTF i overslept? n/t

[LulaMay]

144. Those of you who repeat this trash are the ones damaging our party and the race.

Shame on you.

[Mike03]

146. I agree, but you have to let them come to this conclusion on their own

not bully them.

Dumbasses....

[cottonseed]

150. Agreed. Welcome to an "all war all the time" general.

Can't wait for the debates. Russert holding up a list of 10 countries, asking Hillary and McCain which one's should be bombed. They both agree at that moment.

-- that's IF she can somehow pull the "nuclear option" and walk away with it. Which she won't.