Honest questions for Obama supporters

[Monty__]

First I'm an Edwards supporter who will vote for either Clinton or Obama. If someone put a gun to my head and told me now I had to choose between Obama and Clinton I'd choose Obama (I already voted in Illinois and I actually voted for Edwards). With that being said:

1. What happened to the youth vote in Ohio?
2. The idea of Hope as the focus of Obama's campaign.
-I'm not taking the Clinton approach that Obama is all talk, not at all. I think he's great speaker and he really believes in what he says, so don't cast me in the light of Clinton saying talk is cheap.
-Now with that being said:

Do Obama supporters really think he invented the term "Hope" or "Change" as a campaign slogan? Kerry and Edwards ran on it in '04, Edwards especially. Bill Clinton ran on these themes in '92....in fact so did Perot.

[soleft]

1. No, I don't think he invented the term hope or change

Honestly.

[Fresh_Start]

2. Dont forget Bush ran as a "UNITER"

based on his Texas experience.

[melody]

8. So did Clinton -- Hope, Change, Uniter (not a divider) -- all candidates run on these

Has there EVER been a candidate who walked up and said, "I'm for the status quo and I want
everything to remain the same"?

[Fresh_Start]

22. which is why I don't want platitudes....I want a contract

give me a specific list of deliverables and dates.

[melody]

27. That time is over -- we don't have a choice any longer

We either choose a Democrat or a GOP. Insisting upon a brokered convention means a Republican President.
You've made your choice.

The person with a specific plan was John Edwards. He is out of the race. In choosing Clinton over Obama,
all anyone has done is hand the decision over to the corporations to decide.

[Fresh_Start]

31. I voted for Edwards

in my primary on Super Tuesday

He was my choice after it became clear that Gore would not run.

[melody]

35. Same here, all around.

But we have no time to choose any longer ... we either choose a Democrat or a Republican. I'm afraid
we've done that as of yesterday and the choice is the wrong one.

[housewolf]

32. Yeah - and his name is John McCain

or perhaps George H.W. Bush in 1992

[melody]

36. No, they both ran on "change" -- Poppy was "changing liberal policies" and McCain has "change" signs

It's all about change and hope and other empty rhetoric.

We only have one clear choice and I'm afraid we made it yesterday. And it won't be the right one.

[redqueen]

3. Obama's campaign expected to lose Ohio. So no shock there as for the youth vote

not turning out or any such nonsense like that.

As for your second question... it's just stupid.

[Monty__]

7. It's stupid?

No, it's not. How is it stupid? Obama supporters, especially on here talk about hope as if he invented it. He did not, it's been around for decades...in fact back to FDR.

Lastly...did you even read the part where I said if someone forced me to choose between Obama and Clinton I'd pick Obama? So don't lump me with the Clinton supporters.

[redqueen]

11. Yes, it is.

You said you've seen some people "talk about hope as if he invented it". Did you ask them when you saw such claims if they thought this was the case, or is that just your interpretation? If it's your interpretation (and I'm 100% positive it is), then you should ask yourself why you think that, not project your perceptions on others, and ask them to explain to you why you see it that way.

[Monty__]

14. Give me a break

My interpretation? Look at the freakin board. Look at it for the past month, especially since Super Tuesday. Good G-D. Some Obama supporters have become cocky and arrogant.

[redqueen]

17. Uh huh... while on the other hand Clinton's supporters

have been glowing fuzzy glitter-covered angels from above, right?

:rofl:


My friendly suggestion: work on your perception. :hi:

[Monty__]

19. Here's my suggestion, work on reading comp skills

READ MY POSTS

I am not a Hillary supporter. I supported Edwards. If I could vote again today I'd vote for Obama. Get through your head.

[redqueen]

21. Yeah, I read that... I did too (support Edwards, I mean)...

it's not exactly relevant to this conversation, though, is it?

You're only attempting to smear one group of supporters as delusional... not both.

[Monty__]

25. No I'm not

I'm not.

1. I'm not trying to smear anyone. I'm just sick and tired of the arrogance shown by many Obama supporters.
2. I think what Clinton has done with the 3 AM ads, what they did in SC, and how they've shown that they'll put themselves above the party is despicable.

3. Now what's my problem?

[redqueen]

28. I'm sick and tired of the stupid BS from idiotic supporters in BOTH camps.

Good luck finding answers from all those supporters who supposedly think what you think they think.

[Apollo11]

4. Way to make the Obama folks mad!

This should be worth watching!

:popcorn:

[melody]

10. How does that make Obama folk mad? And who are Obama folk?

We were all Democrats a few weeks ago.

[Fresh_Start]

24. you put your finger right on a sore point of mine

I see a lot of Obama supporters as Obama people not democrats.
Meanwhile I see traditional democrats dismissed as insignificant.
I'm not even a democrat....just a person.
I don't believe a "NEW" customer is more important than a loyal customer.
It annoys me to no end that "NEW business" gets better treatment than loyal business.

[melody]

29. This is a Democratic board ... we're here as Democrats ... I've been one for thirty years

I'm a person first, but the mechanics of the system defines us as Democrats first, since there
aren't any Republicans here (unless they are Democratic-leaning ones).

I'm only behind Obama because he was a clear frontrunner. Now we have none which has done nothing
for Clinton supporters and yet everything for the GOP.

[mmonk]

5. Hope has been used plenty of times.

It is very effective and no one claims ownership. "Keep hope alive". If it is a failure as a talking point, I fail to see how. Does one run against hope or do they find another strategy such as going negative for example?

[Monty__]

9. I never said it was ineffective

it's very effective. I just don't like seeing Obama supporters acting like he invented it. That's all.

[mmonk]

13. Should we ask you for a theme?

What can we run on that no one no where has ever run on?

[Monty__]

18. Hope is fine

Good Lord, you people read what I wrote? Obviously not. I like the term hope, I supported Edwards, that was his slogan before Obama came along. That was Bill Clinton's slogan in the 90's, RFK in '68, FDR in '32, etc.

THAT'S NOT MY PROBLEM. How hard is it for Obama's supporters to grasp that? I don't care that he's using it. I care that Obama supporters are claiming he invented it.

[mmonk]

23. I didn't take it that way.

But we don't claim to have invented it.

[Monty__]

26. Yes a lot of people on here talk that way

Like Obama did invent it. Sorry but on DU that's a fact.

[mmonk]

34. My gift to you.

http://www.dipdive.com/dip-politics/ywc/

[Monty__]

37. Cool site

thanks

[mmonk]

42. Don't mention it. You're welcome.

:thumbsup:

[tabatha]

40. I think the theme behind Obama's campaign is an attempt

to get people involved in politics again - it is the only way to stop the march to fascism.

If people get all hyper about the theme, then that is a good thing if they become involved.

It has to happen. Otherwise, we may as well just give up.

[Monty__]

43. That's the best answer I've seen in here so far

and I agree. With that said this is what scares me:

"then that is a good thing if they become involved"

They need to not only get involved but remain involved once we have a nominee.

[tabatha]

45. Yes, and that is what Obama intends to do.

He said that he intends to govern from the bottom up - have people involved all the time.

Hence, when he said that as President he would set the tone, the direction, but rely on experts for nitty-gritty, he was denounced by Clinton. Which is very telling - because she will govern from the top down, in a more autocratic manner.

Also, I think ,but an not sure, Obama was responsible for a bill requiring more transparency in government - i.e. we the people would be able to see where our tax dollar were going.

[melody]

6. I just want a nominee ... a Democrat who is a clear contender, not a weak one

That's all I want ... the details aren't important at this point.

[samdogmom]

12. I like his optimism and attempt to run a positive campaign.

I like that he makes ALL of us responsible for the actions of our country. He's inspirational. He makes us want to do better for others and ourselves. He's a leader!

I never once thought he "owned" the terms "hope" and "change". It's the way he uses them that I like. When he talks--it's more than words! It's a call to action! He truly is head and shoulders above Clinton and McCain.

My two cents.

[k8conant]

15. Kerry-Edwards said "Building a Stronger America"

Bush claimed "Steady leadership in times of change." :thumbsdown:


The point here, however, is that "Hope" and "Change" were not invented by Obama. We aren't saying that.

We're saying Obama represents hope and change; Clinton would be a change; McCain is hopeless and changeless.

[Monty__]

20. They said that along with...

Hope is the on the way and Help is on the way.

[Cant trust em]

16. a campaign theme of despair doesn't really bring in many votes

he could probably cut it down a tad and add in more detail.

[housewolf]

30. No, but he carries a personal energetic that allows people to EXPERIENCE the Hope & Change

There is something in him, it could be called by many names such as trait, style, energetic, innate ability, etc, that allows people to experience Hope & Change in such a way that they can envision a future that is hopeful and transformed - changed in a very positive way.

That's what campaigning is all about - the future - or more specifically, attempting to get voter to envision a vision of a positive future for themselves and for their nation. Something in Obama allows that to happen for people, and inspires them to want to take part and do the work required to create the changes necessary to bring that new vision into reality.

Many other candidates have used Hope & Change in their campaigns but most lack the ability to fully animate a vision of a transformed future in the way that Obama does. He is truly inspirational in that way.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. 1. It saved Obama from a twenty point blow out

2. No. He didn't invent it. So what?

[Monty__]

38. Read my post

The so what is that a lot of Obama supporters (on here, around Chicago where I live) have short memories and think he did.

[alcibiades_mystery]

48. I don't think they do believe that

And you provide no evidence in your post to indicate that large numbers of Obama supporters believe anything of the sort. in fact, the claim is actually ridiculous, if not deliberately belittling.

I'm an Obama supporter IN Chicago. I don't know anyone who believes that "Hope" and "Change" are themes unique to Obama's campaign. It's a silly thing to say.

Again, SO WHAT? So what if he's not the first one to use those themes? What difference does that make?

[Orsino]

39. Who in the world said that Obama supporters credit him with inventing "hope" or "change"? n/t

[Monty__]

44. I did....

and the reason I did comes from numerous posts on here over the last 2 months and also with speaking with Obama supporters in Chicago.

[Orsino]

46. Oh. Hyperbole? n/t

[casus belli]

41. Hope and change isn't new. Believing the person running on it is a different story. n/t

[weezy2736]

47. HA! Ohio's youth vote...

At least in SE Ohio, the youth is more Republican than Democrat. High school was torture. All of the "youth" was at Ohio State, Ohio U (in Athens, which Obama lost), Toledo, Cleveland, and Cincy. Really, those are the only places to look for Democrats in Ohio.