Perhaps we should raise funds, as a party, to bankroll redos in FLA and Mich...

[WCGreen]

I know HRC supporters will be upset since she won...

But the elections was basically non-contested...

And they both went against party rules...

And in case anyone forgot, the party sets the nominating rules and no one else...

No state party, no candidate, no state legistlature...

Nominations are not bound by law...

Obama's people can get another crack at two big states to prove, if they can, once and for all that BHO can win in a large state primary...

It's a gamble either way but the nomination would be tainted if the party doesn't run primaries in these two states...

No caucus, a primary...

Ironically, both states would be front and center in the decision making process which is where they wanted to be when they moved their primaries up...

[Fresh_Start]

1. If there are fewer voters in the redo than in the actual election

for Florida since all candidates were on the ballot, the original results should stand

[WCGreen]

2. No....

Just do it over...

That's all...

[Fresh_Start]

3. NO, that was the primary. The voters showed up.

Why should any voter who didn't bother to show up get another chance at all?

[Horse with no Name]

7. because they were told it didn't count? n/t

[Fresh_Start]

16. there were other votes on the ballot beside Clinton/Obama

no one ever said the OTHER votes didn't count

So why should the diligent voters be penalized?

[yourguide]

8. No way

if campaigning, advertising, etc werent an important and influential part of the process then why do candidates go out and campaign?

wouldnt they just stay in washington if it didnt swing the vote?


sorry, she won on name recognition alone in FL. Not a fair contest.

[Fresh_Start]

17. you do realize that there were other important votes on the ballot?

so someone who didn't bother to vote should not take precedence over the people who voted

[yourguide]

18. none of the candidates were allowed to campaign there

voting was on name recognition alone.

[Fresh_Start]

19. responsible voters v irresponsible voters

a record breaker number of voters showed up in spite of the national party screwups.
Why anyone would ignore the responsible voters to give preference to irresponsible voters is beyond me.

Michigan is a different matter because all the candidates were not on the ballot.
But Florida should stand

[yourguide]

24. and again

if campaigning and advertising in a state wasnt a very important part of winning a state then why dont the candidates just stay in washington?

they dont, visibility in those states is an opportunity for the voter to "kick the tires" when you dont have that opportunity you are left with name recognition.

sorry, both michigan and FL were the only 2 states outside of romney and mccain's home states that had a lower turn out than the republicans.

All of the voters were not heard and it would be wildly unfair to seat the delegates as is.

[Fresh_Start]

26. I offered an option...if the redo has more voters okay

otherwise use the original vote which had the larger number of voters

[yourguide]

29. and again

dean offered to pay for a caucus for FL multiple times and the Dems there continue to say NO NO NO.

[Fresh_Start]

27. and again...there were other votes on the ballot

so a reasonal, rationale voter would have voted anyway

[ctaylors6]

4. Just curious, could having FL & MI re-vote get either one to 2025?

[WCGreen]

22. If those two delegations were included in the mix....

It would at least get them closer to that number...

If I am not mistaken, the total delegate number includes the FLA and Mich delegates whether they are allowed to sit or not. So that would mean that 2025 vote is based on numbers included delegates who will not be seated...

[madfloridian]

5. I love the spin that is being used now. Truth no longer matters at all.

Just posting stuff, tossing it against the wall to see if it sticks.

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1819

And Governer Dean on CNN TWICE this week said they could not change the rules in the middle of the primary.

BLITZER: You're not one of those Democrats who says whoever gets the most pledged delegates must get the nomination, forget about the super-delegates?

DEAN: My job is to follow the rules, to follow the rules regarding what states have done and if they're eligible or not and to follow the rules regarding super-delegate. Everybody knew what the rules were when they got into this. So to change the rules in the middle of the game is clearly unfair, no matter what candidate it benefits.

Once you start the game, you can't change the rules, because everybody knew what those rules were. They knew that there were 20 percent super-delegates. They knew that Florida and Michigan delegates couldn't participate in the nomination. And to change those rules, you either have to have a nominee who agrees to it or both campaigns that agree to it. And I don't think that's going to happen.

BLITZER: And --

DEAN: So the rules are not going to be changed.

Dean says you can't change rules during the primary

[WCGreen]

25. The national party does control the nominating process...

There are no legal sanctions that primaries or caucuses must be held...

Those are party rules...

I merely suggested that in order to take away arguments from both camps, the FLA and Mich primaries should be held again...

The other way leads to, obviously from your vehemence, rehashing the arguments that surrounded the original debate...

If you think it's better to march toward a deadlocked convention, then so be it...

But be willing to take the consequence...

Neither candidate will or should they concede...

Unless one wins the nomination outright and that will not happen if the FLA and Mich delegation controversy is not solved quickly...

[bellasgrams]

6. WC, They did not both go agains party rules. BO is the only one that ran

ads. Hillary did not run ads and did not campaign there.

[madfloridian]

9. Ooooohh,.....that is so not true.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1793



Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton (second from left) thanks supporters with Congressman Bill Nelson of Florida, Congressman Alcee Hastings of Florida, Miami Mayor Manny Diaz and U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-F.L.) (left-right) after polls closed at the Signature Grand in Davie, Florida on Tuesday, January 29, 2008.

She was here for fundraisers just like Obama was, just like Edwards was, and Bill Clinton had a huge rally in south Florida that was kept pretty quiet. It was not called a rally, but it was big.

Time for the lies to stop about our state. They were wrong, they broke the rules.

[MonkeyFunk]

11. Wrong

the rules specifically allowed fundraisers.

[madfloridian]

10. Trying to get a revote is not about delegates, it is about Dean's authority

and who is in control.

The lies that have been told are stunning to me. The way Hillary is going after these delegates ruthlessly is shocking.

Even more shocking is that no one gives a damn.

[MonkeyFunk]

12. Yes

and some of us think that ensuring Dean's authority isn't worth losing Florida and Michigan in November.

[WCGreen]

20. I'm really sorry to point this out...

But, primaries, although run by the state and using their rules, are strickly party sponsored events...

It is up to the party to determine who is t be sat and who is not...

[Mezzo]

13. Florida should be seated. Obama CAMPAIGNED THERE and outspent Hillary

and he still lost.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

[madfloridian]

15. Not true. He did not campaign here anymore than Bill C. did and Hillary.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1793



Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton (second from left) thanks supporters with Congressman Bill Nelson of Florida, Congressman Alcee Hastings of Florida, Miami Mayor Manny Diaz and U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-F.L.) (left-right) after polls closed at the Signature Grand in Davie, Florida on Tuesday, January 29, 2008.

She was here for fundraisers just like Obama was, just like Edwards was, and Bill Clinton had a huge rally in south Florida that was kept pretty quiet. It was not called a rally, but it was big.

Time for the lies to stop about our state. They were wrong, they broke the rules.

[madfloridian]

14. I see posting truth doesn't matter at all anymore.

So when lies control the party, no one wins.

[boston bean]

21. When it isn't everyone's truth, expect disagreements. nt

[Tom Rinaldo]

23. I'm a Clinton supporter who would back this idea

even though she "won" the first time around (Well, Florida anyway). I would not back holding caucuses though.

The cost is a fraction of what either the Clinton or Obama campaign spends in one month. It would be much healthier for our party to but this controversy behind us in a relatively fair way that does not disenfranchise millions of Democratic voters.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. If Push Came To Shove Team Obama Would Oppose A Redo

Michican would be another Ohio for them and Florida would be another California because of the demographics of the two states...