The Hillary experience myth

[galadrium]

I love how she talks about all her experience, but one thing is clear, she doesn't have much experience running campaigns. Her campaign is making a huge mistake attacking Obama so viscously. She's going to throw mud at Obama, smear him with Republican style attacks, then she expects all the Obama supporters to just get in line and vote for her "if" she wins the nomination. Thats a pretty arrogant plan, denigrate her Democratic opponent, and by proxy his supporters, and then expect their vote in the fall.

Another point, Obama has held elected office for LONGER than Hillary, and she's the one who supposedly has so much experience. I can't believe the Obama campaign almost concedes this point, its BS.

[anonymous171]

1. YES!

Obama needs to reveal how inexperienced she actually is, by the numbers.

[LSparkle]

4. John Kerry has been doing a good job pushing this

He was on MSNBC the other day flat-out saying that Obama has more elected legislative experience than Hillary. GOOD FOR HIM!

[galadrium]

7. yeah, it was the first time I heard anyone saying this, about time.

[Capn Sunshine]

9. Coming soon to this location

The experience meme will work against her by the end of the next six weeks.

[surfin]

64. Here is something for someone to look into

Hillary's people here in Hawaii tried to attack Obama about the school he went to and it really back fired. At the same time Bill was asked about her experience and he brag about how great a job she did running education in Arkansas. Well, some dems, not right wing freepers told something that I would love to know if it is true. Remember they were mad about what Hillary said about his school here. They said that Hawaii has always been 50th in the USA in education until Bill appointed Hillary to run the educational program in Arkansas and she took them down to 50th and Hawaii move up.

Is there anyway to prove this and pass it on to Obama?

I really cannot find anything she has done.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Well, she is a Clinton.

You can't expect much.

[nomorewhopper]

3. proximity to power =/= power

hillary had no security clearance

first lady of arkansas
first lady of america

it's impressive, but it's certainly not what she's making it out to be. the way she goes on and on you'd think she is convinced that SHE was the president and governor

[LSparkle]

10. Yeah, and just because I watch someone fly a plane, I can be a pilot!

She has FAMILIARITY but not EXPERIENCE.

[karynnj]

30. Claiming them is fair, but they need to sold for what they were

This morning on CNN (6:30 -7:00 EST) she spoke of having brought peace to Northern Ireland and having negotiated opening the border in Macedonia. As you said - she had no security clearance and no official position. She can't legally negotiate with foreign countries.

[Muttocracy]

39. Laura Bush had it for Texas and U.S. but I hope she's not going to run for Senate nt

[nomorewhopper]

43. i shudder to think of the horror of that lmao

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. She's counting the years she spent sleeping in the White House as experienced years nt

[DrFunkenstein]

6. You Forgot to Count Her College Years as Experience

But don't mention Obama's years working as an inner city organizer.

[SoFlaJet]

8. Randi has been pounding it today that

the Armed Services Committee (that Clinton belongs to) has held two hearings on Afghanistan and Clinton didn't show up to either one and she sits there and criticizes Obama for the same thing

[Bill219]

25. How about when that Hillbot called in

She kept trying to spout the usual talking points and Randi shut her up by asking her what exactly was Hillary's experience...then the Hillbot kept trying to change the topic.

The Hillbot attacked Obama by saying that he has not held one commitee hearing and Randi pointed out to the Hillbot that Hillary has missed two votes on the Armed Services commitee that she is on. The Hillbot to did not know how to respond and just kept trying to change the topic

It was like she was arguing with one of the usual rabid right wingers that calls her on a daily basis

[SoFlaJet]

37. yea Bill I swear they remind me

of the C-Span caller from the republican line from 2002-2005...nothing Bush could ever do was wrong-Hill-bots are the same way

[Cant trust em]

11. Clinton only knows how to play with a lead

When she already has the wind at her back she can set the agenda and be pretty effective. But when she's not in total control she doesn't know what to do with herself.

Exhibit A: Obama gets momentum so she has to spend her energy taking him down instead of building herself up. Strategy being let's make everyone hate Obama as much as they already hate me.

Exhibit B: George Bush is in power and the media is on his side regarding Iraq. She goes right along and doesn't fight against conventional wisdom that is actually false.

[Deep13]

12. 1. the negativity is working, 2. experience does not necessarily mean elected office.

One would not say Janice Reno or Madeline Albright were inexperienced because they were not elected. Well, HC was a closer and more trusted advisor than either of them. She is the only 1st lady to have a west wing office and the only member of that administration who could call the president by his first name. And I don't think one can really compare time in the state legislature with another four years in the U.S. Senate.

Won't argue of the the campaign she has run. Up until a couple weeks ago it sucked. That is partly because she failed to draw a significant distinction between herself and Obama.

[Cant trust em]

14. Calling him Bill intead of Mr. President isn't much of an accomplishment. nt

[galadrium]

I agree experience doesn't always mean elected office

But she never gets to the specifics of what the experience is.

The last time I heard her cite experience "at the other end of Pennsylvania ave" was when she was announcing her support for the Iraq was resolution.

[Recursion]

ROFL

One would not say Janice Reno or Madeline Albright were inexperienced because they were not elected. Well, HC was a closer and more trusted advisor than either of them.

I assume you mean "Janet" Reno.

And anyways, both of them were much more trusted than Hillary because both were allowed to do policy after 1994, which Hillary was barred from doing after she managed to set back universal healthcare by at least 2 decades.

[democrattotheend]

42. I don't doubt that she has experience, but I do think the argument has gone unchallenged

And that the Obama campaign should have challenged it long ago.

For example, while everyone made such a big deal out of that state senator from Texas not being able to name Obama's legislative accomplishments, I would have been very surprised if Stephanie Tubbs Jones could have named Clinton's, yet she was not asked, because the media has simply bought Clinton's experience argument without questioning it, and Obama hasn't challenged it as much as he should have.

I don't doubt that being First Lady and an informal adviser to President Clinton gave her valuable experience, but I would like more details about this experience. The main thing we know about that she was in charge of was the health care task force, and it was a disaster.

While her visits to over 80 countries and her humanitarian work as First Lady are certainly valuable experience for a president to have, I have no reason to believe that she has experience that would make her any more qualified to deal with a security crisis at 3 AM. She never sat in the White House situation room (to the best of my knowledge) during a crisis, nor did she attend security briefings on trips abroad.

I have been saying for weeks that Obama needs to challenge her experience argument, and I am glad he has finally begun to do so.

[Samantha]

57. Well let's take a closer look

For 15 years, she was a partner in the Rose law firm. For 8 years, she served as First Lady -- with no top security clearance, I count that as "Exposure" not "Experience." Additionally, Al Gore was Bill Clinton's co-president, so I do not think he actually had two. This fact has been documented by David Mariness.

She has about 6 years Senatorial experience -- she's actually on her second term of elective office. So far looking at her claim of 35 years of experience, we know what she was doing for 29 of these years. I personally do not count the 15 and the 8. Where the balance she is counting to get to that 35 comes from is beyond me.

Hillary is running on a vastly inflated resume and no one calls her on it. She delights in belittling Obama's 8 years of legislative experience in the Illinois legislature. But for my money, I weight those 8 years of elective office experience much more than her 8 years of serving as First Lady.

[surfin]

65. She was in on nothing in the White House

She did not have a clearance. She was not into anything important.

Her west wing off was not in on anything as she did not stop Monica and others from their visits.

I keep asking Hillary people what has she ever accomplished. I get good answers from Obama people. Even Hillary's top people could not answer the other day.

[Saturday]

13. Oh my, Obama supporters are sucking lemons today. nt

[midora]

18. We Took Lessons From the Hilbots

Nobody knows how to suck lemons better than they do.

[eissa]

15. If she were more "experienced"

I really wouldn't care. If "experience" was all that mattered, Bush Sr. would have won in '92 and Dole in '96. If we're going to base nominations on "experience" then let's just select the oldest people in our party and run them (Byrd '08!!) I loved Obama's initial response to this charge and I think he should stick with it -- if experience is all that matters, then no one was more experienced than Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Btw, I totally think the Obama campaign should hire the PR people behind the "Holiday Inn Express" commercials. No, I'm not a scientist, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express!! :9

[galadrium]

44. I don't think he should stick with the Cheney Rummy comment

Because its still basically admitting she has more experience. He needs to ask her what exactly that experience is. Is she including first lady experience? If so, what part of that job makes you ready to be the president?

[midora]

16. I Haven't Understood Why Obama Hasn't Hit Her with This

She is NOT experienced, and she's got a helluva nerve bragging about it. I don't understand why Obama hasn't called her out on this crap or created a campaign ad about the "The Hillary Experience Myth". I guess because he's a nicer person and running a more decent campaign than HRC is. Come on, Obama, get mean!

[galadrium]

20. Well, hes been amazingly restrained and hasn't resorted to going negative

The reason candidates go negative is because it usually works, Obama is taking a risk by not going negative, but its a principled stand, it really shows his character and why he would be a better president.

[anonymous171]

27. He needs to, I agree.

Once she is no longer viewed as experienced, her fear tactics will backfire.

[eissa]

34. Doesn't want to hurt the party

He realizes (much more than her apparently) that such attacks can come back and haunt the nominee. Some people put the party above themselves, while others.......

[surfin]

66. This also

Hillary's people tried to attack Obama on the school he went to here in Hawaii when he was a child. It really backfired and they ran for cover. But Bill was at the time bragging about the great job Hillary did running education for him. I post this in another place and would love to know if true. It came from dems for Obama who were upset about what they did with his school here.

They said that Hawaii has been in 50th place in education until Hillary took over education in Arkansas and she drove them to 50th and Hawaii out of last place. Is there someway to verify this and if true, Obama should use it. You can build a track record of failures for her. Rose Law Firm. Wal Mart. Ark. Education. Heathl Care disaster, on and on.

[saracat]

17. Really. Too bad Obama's experience isn't his own and his Kingmaker " Jones in Chicago put Obama's

name on other legislators work and got everything done in a single year when the Dems regained control. He was, to quote Jones" going to get himself a US Senator" meaning Barrack. This same Jones told the black attendees that they had an "obligation to vote for Obama " as their "son" and they "owed the Clinton's nothing" BTW, Obama also got Jones $350,000 + for his district. Questioned about the money Obama got him Jones replied."That isn't pork.I call it steak".

[FrenchieCat]

19. Yeah....right. A link would be nice.

Here are mine.

Clinton's '35 years of change' omits most of her career: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/26377.html

How Hillary Clinton Betrayed the Children's Defense Fund for Political Gain: http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/034

[saracat]

45. Here is the link but I'll bet you don't read it! It was already on the GP!

http://dallasobserver.com/2008-02-28/news/obama-and-me/1

[EFerrari]

35. Do you mean that Obama is a successful politican?

And, looky, he didn't have to drag out his husband to bolster his "experience".

Oh -- and gawd forbid the black community back the black community. That would be so wrong.

[anonymous171]

36. It kind of puzzles me.

Is he a weak kneed greenhorn or a devious back room politician? I wish HRC supporters would make up their mind.

[EFerrari]

38. I think the answer is "yes" -- to match their 100 Hillary March.

We peons can only try to absorb all the personalities hiked at us.

In other words, who will pick up the red phone? Hillary White or Jane?

[saracat]

48. Backroom product of Chicago corruption

http://dallasobserver.com/2008-02-28/news/obama-and-me/1

[saracat]

46. No he claimed other peoples work as his own. He is a "made" man

http://dallasobserver.com/2008-02-28/news/obama-and-me/1

[EFerrari]

49. Why would you direct anyone to such a piece of partisan trash?

I'm going to pretend this never happened.

[saracat]

53. The Dallas Observer is partisan trash?

[EFerrari]

67. You're a smart person and you can read.

And yes, the LAT has been trash for years now.

[saracat]

56. And I am sure the LATimes is "partisan trash as well?

CHICAGO -- Starting even before Barack Obama graduated from law school, his career as a lawyer and politician was nurtured by a Chicago businessman named Tony Rezko.
--snip--

They met in 1990 when Rezko, then starting a low-income housing development business, noticed a news article about Obama being elected the first African American president of the Harvard Law Review. One of Rezko's partners called Obama on Rezko's behalf and offered him a job, according to a Chicago Sun-Times account last year.

Obama declined. But their paths soon would cross -- and Rezko would become an issue in the presidential campaign.

--snip--

In a January debate, Clinton jabbed Obama over his legal representation of Rezko "in his slum landlord business in inner-city Chicago."

Obama shook his head and said that the characterization was not accurate. "I was an associate at a law firm that represented a church group that had partnered with this individual to do a project, and I did about five hours' worth of work on this joint project. That's what she's referring to."

Though Obama did represent a church, he also represented the nonprofit Woodlawn Preservation & Investment Corp., founded by Bishop Arthur Brazier of the Apostolic Church of God. In an interview, Brazier said his role as a Woodlawn director was separate from his work at the church.

Woodlawn was partners with Rezko in four low-income housing projects with hundreds of units. In at least one instance, in 1994, Obama represented Woodlawn on a troubled project it later shared with Rezko. The city of Chicago sued, alleging Woodlawn failed to provide tenants with heat in the winter, and Obama represented the landlord in court."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-rezko3mar03,...

[damonm]

21. I'd like to have her explain...

Why foreign policy experience is so vital.

I recall that Bill had even LESS foreign policy experience than Obama, yet he seemed to do all right...hmmmm....:dilemma:

[galadrium]

22. Her campaign is filled with inconsistencies between her and Bill

She never lets facts get in the way of her dirty politicking.

[damonm]

24. Think I'll make this its own thread...

The torrential flood of illogic & fantasy from the Hillbots should prove entertaining...:evilgrin:

[saracat]

47. Bill was a state governor. They do get to deal with other nations.

Barack has no executive experience and little federal experience.

[RememberWellstone]

23. Cookies?

You want some warm milk too? Good god, you Obama kids need a hug maybe? Run the race and shut the hell up...earn it, don't beg for it.

[galadrium]

26. Why don't you actually respond to the points

Hillary is using Rovian attacks against Obama, but expects all of his supporters to support her if she wins. Thats pretty stupid. A more experienced political mind would know that.

[woolldog]

28. Obama needs to push this hard.

I've changed my position on this, as I've wanted him to keep his campaign positive.

But he's been too much of nice guy, not b/c he doesn't know how to fight back, but because he didn't want to bloody a potential nominee. Now the gloves need to come off.

[rinsd]

29. Kind of like Obama and his supporter denigrating Hillary supporters for MONTHS.

[galadrium]

33. Campaigns cant control every one of their millions of supporters, I expect more from CANDIDATES

[Splinter Cell]

31. Yes

Hillary was FIRST LADY of the US, not "co-president", not sec. of state, not VP.

All this experience is pretty hollow, she has no more then Barack.

Does Nancy Reagan have the experience to be president? How about Laura Bush? Hillary would be better off running on her own credentials and not trying to borrow her husbands.

[EFerrari]

32. It's ridiculous already but it's all she has. n/t

[zulchzulu]

40. Her First Lady "experience" is an absolute myth and a lie

Coming from a Clinton mouth, that is to be expected. But consider this.

Hillary Clinton had ZERO security clearances.

She had ZERO National Security clearances.

She has ZERO access to Presidential Daily Briefings.

During 1998, when there was trouble and attacks with bin Laden, she was rarely even communicating with her husband, who had his hands full with the Monicagate problem. That whole year is a ZERO.

Sure, she tinkled teacups with leader's wives in ball rooms. Sure, she yelled at China that they needed to clean up their act...before Bill passed the China free trade act sucking out more jobs than NAFTA and without getting the Chinese to adhere to human rights violations.

She had ZERO foreign policy experience while First Lady. First of all, she's not allowed to and secondly, she had ZERO access to do anything.

She is a phony. A turncoat. A liar. And soon to come, a big fucking loser.

[anonymous171]

41. Make that into an attack ad and air it.

Perfect and concise.

[saracat]

50. Barack has never won a competitive race.He has cleared the field and most of his "experience"

belonged to others. He was credited with it in order to create a US Senator .

http://dallasobserver.com/2008-02-28/news/obama-and-me/1

[galadrium]

51. And Hillary has?

She ran against Rudy, and you know how hard it is to beat him.

[saracat]

52. But she was part of the core of two winning presidential races.

[anonymous171]

55. WRONG! She was the wife of a winning presidential candidate.

She is also a senator.

[saracat]

58. She was a central part of the strategic planning of both presidential runs of Bill Clinton.

Everyone with the slightest grasp of political history "knows" that.

[anonymous171]

59. Proof?

[galadrium]

63. Really?

So shes the one behind her campaign's "strategic planning" of attacking Obama with Republican style attacks and then expecting them to all vote for her if she get the nomination?

[galadrium]

60. Really? Exactly how?

If anything she was a lightning rod for right wing hate.

[rodeodance]

54. * Hillary is seen as the candidate to solve the country’s problems, leading Obama by 10 points .

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject CLINTON; The Path to the Presidency; The Red States: Obama argument flawed.
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4911288#4911288
4911288, CLINTON; The Path to the Presidency; The Red States: Obama argument flawed.
Posted by rodeodance on Wed Mar-05-08 03:31 PM

enjoy:-)


http://blog.hillaryclinton.com/blog/main/2008/03/05/162040



The Path to the Presidency
3/5/2008 11:20:40 AM

With last night’s victories in Ohio and Texas, one thing is clear: the momentum has swung back to Hillary Clinton. Voters in both states agreed that Hillary Clinton would be the best Commander-in-Chief and the strongest steward of our economy. In fact, according to last night’s polls, those who decided who to vote for in the last three days overwhelmingly favored Hillary . It’s time for a second look.

………
……………
…………
5. Several of Hillary's base constituencies (women, Hispanic, labor, elderly and under $75,000) are key to a Democratic victory in November. Senator Obama has not brought these voters out in the same numbers.
……………….
* These political and demographic trends project positively into the general election and strongly favor Hillary.

6. The Red States: The central strategic argument of the Obama campaign is flawed. Senator Obama argues that his success in Democratic primary contests held in long-time Red States means he will carry those states in a general election. In reality, there are no “Red States” in a Democratic primary – there are only Democratic voters who live in Republican states and represent a small percentage of the general election population.
* Of the eleven core Republican states that have gone to the polls, Sen. Obama has won ten: Utah, Idaho, Nebraska, North Dakota, Alabama, Alaska, Kansas, South Carolina, Georgia, and Louisiana. John Kerry lost each of these states by fifteen points or more.
* The last time a Democratic nominee won Utah, Idaho, Nebraska, North Dakota, Kansas, and Alaska in the general election was 1964.
* Even if Obama is “transcendent,” as his campaign has argued, the historic electoral trends and the current political environment suggest that translating those primary wins into November success will be close to impossible.
* In short: Hillary is better positioned to carry the battle ground states that Democrats need to win in November and Obama’s victories in deep red states do not .

7. Hillary is the only Democrat with the strength, leadership, and experience to defeat John McCain. Senator Clinton is seen as the best prepared to be Commander-in-Chief.
* Nationally, 57% say Hillary Clinton is best prepared to be president, 39% Obama
* Hillary Clinton is seen as best able to take on the Republicans on their own turf – national security and terrorism. She is seen as a strong and decisive leader (a seven point advantage over Obama nationally).
* Hillary is seen as the one who can get the job done – leading Obama nationally by 13 points .
* Hillary is seen as the candidate to solve the country’s problems, leading Obama by 10 points .

8. John McCain will diminish any perceived advantage Obama has with independents. As has been widely discussed, one of John McCain’s key constituents is independents. And against McCain, Obama will be framed by the Republicans as too liberal (he was ranked by the National Journal as the most liberal Senator); untested on national security; and vulnerable on issues that would make him unelectable in November. These issues may be surmountable in a Democratic primary but will be an Achilles heel with independents in a general election.

9. The McCain Roadmap: McCain has already foreshadowed his campaign’s construct against Obama: His vulnerability is experience and judgment on national security.
* McCain: Obama’s ‘meet, talk and hope approach’ is ‘dangerously naïve in international diplomacy.’ “Meet, talk, and hope may be a sound approach in a state legislature, but it is dangerously naive in international diplomacy where the oppressed look to America for hope and adversaries wish us ill.”
* McCain: Obama is an ‘inexperienced candidate who once suggested bombing our ally, Pakistan, and suggested sitting down without preconditions or clear purpose with enemies who support terrorists.’ “Each event poses a challenge and an opportunity. Will the next president have the experience -- the judgment, experience informs and the strength of purpose to respond to each of these developments in ways that strengthen our security and advance the global progress of our ideals? Or will we risk the confused leadership of an inexperienced candidate who once suggested bombing our ally, Pakistan, and suggested sitting down without preconditions or clear purpose with enemies who support terrorists and are intent on destabilizing the world by acquiring nuclear weapons? I think you know the answer to that question.”

10. Steward of the economy. Hillary Clinton leads both John McCain and Barack Obama on the economy and health care. In the latest LA Times/Bloomberg poll (1/22), Hillary leads McCain 52/28 on health care and 43/34 on the economy.
* Hillary leads Barack Obama on health care by 21 points nationally .

11. Florida……..
12. Michigan…….
13. ……….

Previewing Today : Hillary appeared on NBC’s “Today Show,” ABC’s “Good Morning America,” CBS’s Early Show, CNN’s “American Morning,” FOX’s “Fox and Friends,” and MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.” … Chelsea holds an “Our Voice, Our Future” event at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia.

[galadrium]

61. If I wanted to hear Hillary's campaign line I'd go to her website

Do you have anything of your own to add to this discussion?

[rodeodance]

68. You did not make the rule for what type of comment can be posted.

[galadrium]

69. No, but why don't you say something original, anyone can just copy and paste.

[Skidmore]

62. I heard Susan Rice do a nice deconstruction of the Hillary experience myth

this afternoon by addressing the Ireland accord lies and some of the disingenuous remarks around Kosovo experience. Gotta go to a meeting so I don't have time to go into a lot of detail but it was on MSNBC.

[johnnydrama]

70. in a debate

against McCain he will get an opening. Whether it's a question from the moderator, or whether he's allowed to ask her a question, which sometimes they can do.

And he will crush crush crush her on her experience, and it will not be pretty.