Ignore this thread. I'm just demoralized.

[democrattotheend]

I want to be clear at the outset that I am an Obama supporter. I spent a total of 16 hours on a bus over the weekend to and from Columbus to volunteer, and I plan on going home to South Jersey and volunteering in Philadelphia every weekend I can between now and April 22. I am not giving up on him by any means, but I am starting to think that especially if things don't work out in PA, maybe taking the VP slot is his best bet, even if he has more delegates. Fellow Obama supporters, please hear me out before you attack.

Given how long this primary has lasted and how passionate people on both sides are, I think it's almost a given that whoever doesn't get the nomination this time will be the frontrunner in 2012 if we lose. If Obama gets the nomination and loses, he might not get another shot, but if he takes the VP slot, he's either running for re-election as VP or the presumptive frontrunner for the nomination in 4 years. Either way, when he runs for president again in 4 or 8 years, he'll be more experienced (but hopefully not too jaded) from 4 more years in the Senate or 4 or 8 years as VP, and he'll be that much tougher as a candidate, having gone through it already once or twice before. Hopefully, he'll keep his idealism and his relative purity by Washington standards (i.e. he's not a saint, but I do think he's better than most politicians), and he won't seem like as big of a risk after he has a few more years under his belt as a senator or as VP.

So depending on how things go in the next few months, taking the VP slot could be a win-win for Obama, especially if he and Clinton made a deal that she would not run again if the ticket did not win in 2012 (which I think would be more than reasonable if he were to yield the top of the ticket despite having more pledged delegates).

I am not saying he should step aside now by any means, but if PA is a big loss, or likes like it will be a big loss, it's something he might want to consider. The last thing I'd want is to see him fizzle out after getting this far, and he could save the party from a messy convention battle that would hamper our ability to win in November. I hope the tide turns back toward him and he can put it away on April 22, and I am going to do everything I can to help him do that. But if he can't seem to recover the momentum, working out a deal to be Clinton's VP might be his best bet.

UPDATE: I don't know what possessed me to write this. It's way premature and I am not giving up. I am just feeling demoralized right now, and it just feels like everything is falling apart when we were this close to clinching it. I went through this in 2004 with Dean and I guess I have just been waiting for it all to come crashing down this time, and right now it's feeling like that's what's happening. Maybe after Wyoming and Mississippi things will start looking up a bit.

[Joe the Revelator]

1. He's leading in every catagory he could be leading in, and you want him to play second fiddle to

a person who has shown that she can't campaign for shit? No thanks.

[democrattotheend]

3. Only if it looks like we can't win this year

I'm feeling less and less confident about our chances, and if it looks like we can't win, I would rather have Clinton at the top of the ticket.

[John Q. Citizen]

31. Less confident? Why? He cut Hill lead in half in OH and he cut her lead 15% -20% in TX

He's leading in delegates, popular vote, fundraising and has won double the states Hill has.

Plus his negative are way lowerer in his own party and outside his party than Hill.

What's to be unconfident about?


Obama would never run with Hill. He know she can't win the general, hell everybody knows that except the people obsceesed with the idea of getting a human with a vagina as the nominee.

Why would you fell less confident since we are winning?

[democrattotheend]

56. I'm afraid he can't win Ohio in the general

My boss expressed that concern to me before Iowa, that parts of Ohio were just too racist to elect a black man. Last night makes me wonder if he was right.

It's because I don't think she can win the general that it might be in his best interest to take the VP slot IF, and only IF, he loses a lot of the later contests. I'm afraid if he gets the nomination, she will do everything she can to undermine him so she gets another chance. I'd rather let her go down and have him get another chance than let her bring him down by taking this all the way to the convention and driving up his negatives until August.

[John Q. Citizen]

64. Hill definatly can't win it in the general. That's why so many Repos crossed over to vote for her.

If you are that timid I suggest you abandon the Obama campaign and join Hill. You sound to me as if yiou enjoy losing. Might as well back a loser instead of bringing down a winner!

He won't take another shot. This is it' it's do or die.

As Yoda said, "Try not; Do or do not."

Now get your head out of your ass and quit wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood!

[buff2]

15. For the sake of the Democratic party

he needs to get out now. No way could he win the general election and if he was to get the nomination Mclame would be a shew in.Too many repukes want him to win. What does THAT tell you?

[John Q. Citizen]

34. Why? We already know what's in his tax returns.

[msallied]

35. More media spin

Don't you find it awfully arrogant and presumptive of Hillary to be even hinting at choosing a running mate when she is LOSING the race? If anything, Obama should be offering her the VP spot. Of course if he does and puts her a heartbeat away from the Presidency, my enthusiasm for him will fade awfully fast.

[Sulawesi]

2. Then again maybe he should ride his sizable delegate lead and weak GE opponent all the way to the WH

[democrattotheend]

11. If he can recover the momentum, absolutely

But I am getting a little bit worried about the late deciders. This is not the first time he has lost them. I am nervous about this trend of people getting skittish at the end because they perceive him as too big of a risk or too inexperienced. If a repeat of these past few days happens in November it will cost him the White House.

[movonne]

27. Are you crazy....or just really a clinton supporter...what is hell makes

you think he can't win...and that clinton is leading...please explain...

[democrattotheend]

33. I am nervous about his performance among late deciders

I am afraid that people like him and might plan to vote for him but get skittish at the last minute that he doesn't have enough experience. We saw that last night and we saw it in a lot of places on Super Tuesday. Even in Wisconsin, where he won bigger than expected, he did better among people who decided before the last day, and only won day of deciders by a few points. So he seems to have a problem closing the deal, and that is a concern looking forward to November. The last thing in the world I want to see is for him to get the nomination and go down in the general...if that happened I am not sure he'd ever get another chance, and that would be such a waste of such great potential.

[John Q. Citizen]

45. Oh yeah, like in Wisconsin eh? He won by 20%.I can see why you are terrified.

Only 20% is cutting it awful close.

Especially when he might only win MS by 30%

Oh Oh I'm a scared too.

Help Hillary the horrible is after me (I mean Obama)

[El Supremo]

4. Only if Gore is the Presidential nominee!

[Windy]

5. No offense, but are you masquerading as an obama supporter? You must be.

How can you want to throw in the towel when he is up? Walk away from the TV.

[democrattotheend]

16. I am not throwing in the towel

I said in my post that I will do everything in my power to help him win Pennsylvania.

[rug]

6. Prepare to be pilloried.

[democrattotheend]

14. I'm prepared

I knew my fellow Obama supporters would hate me for this. But as I said in my post, I am not giving up yet. I just don't want a scenario where he has more delegates but she wins all the later primaries and has momentum going into the convention. That will lead to a lot of sour grapes no matter who gets the nomination, and it will make John McCain the likely winner.

[Cha]

7. N-O NO

NO.

[Radical Activist]

8. No, we don't need another Republican President.

Hillary can't win.

[amborin]

9. i will vote for either in the GE

but it makes sense for Obama to be VP now

he can run in 2016...with that much more everything

this is going to kill dems in the GE

we are bashing each other, while McCain runs unopposed

[ClayZ]

10. He is a MILLION votes ahead.

Don't let them spin this! It is corporate confetti smoke and mirrors!

[amborin]

36. he's behind Hillary in the popular vote if Fla is included

[democrattotheend]

65. No, only if FL and MI are included

And he doesn't get the uncommitted votes but she gets her votes from MI.

[high density]

12. Win-Win?? No...

I don't think that's good for anybody. These two don't seem to make a good team at all.

[TeamJordan23]

13. NO WAY! You never know how 2012 is going to be. His time is now. nm

[thunder rising]

22. 2nd-ed!

[Zhade]

17. Not unless he loses, and he's currently winning.

It makes no sense to award the top spot to the LOSING candidate.

[movonne]

18. This does not sound like a Obama supporter...

[democrattotheend]

29. I am an Obama supporter

Ask anyone in my office. My boss introduces me to people as the resident Obamamaniac (even though just about everyone in the office supports Obama).

I am just starting to wonder if the nomination is worth winning at this point. I am not sure either of them can beat McCain.

[guyanakoolaid]

59. OK, I'll bite, if you can answer these questions...

What is your name and what company do you work for, including specific location?

Why on Earth would any Obama supporter say anything to the effect of not being able to beat John McCain, when every head-to-head poll shows Obama beating McCain by double digits?

Hillary just made her biggest push, but it didn't do anything to dent Obama's delegate count, and still you ask for surrender.

We're about to hit an inside the park home run, and you're asking us to slide at third. Forgive me if I call a bluff and tell you you are full of crap, and guaranteed not an Obama supporter.

[democrattotheend]

63. My name is Laura

I work in DC for a labor organization, but I can't say exactly where because we're still neutral.

I will upload pictures from my trip to Ohio when I get a chance, if that makes you more confident about my credentials as an Obama supporter.

I am just a little demoralized right now, that's all.

[Olney Blue]

19. As a Hillary supporter, even I don't think this would be smart strategy!

Obama is holding a strong hand- he owes it to his supporters to keep fighting for the presidency.

I do agree with you that a "messy convention battle" would be bad for our chances. I hope something gets worked out before then. Who knew we would have two such fantastic candidates?

[psquare]

51. Absolutely, totally AGREED!

Let me get this straight - you're a Democrat, strong Obama supporter, and you would rather he WALK AWAY from a sure, if messy, nomination???

Pray tell, WHY? Because Hillary Clinton is making a fuss, running nasty ads and insinuating things about Obama's background?

Grow a spine! Get real! This is a taste of what McCain and Co. will throw at the Big "O" EVERY DAY until Election Day!

Now maybe you're not used to seeing this sort of dirty campaigning from a Democrat - yes it is repulsive to me as well. But Dear God in Heaven you don't run away from it, you face it like Obama is doing. With class, and by not descending to their (her) level. He has done an admirable job so far.

Please don't tell me that he couldn't counterattack, or "close the deal", that's the other side playing cards they can't deal again! The effectiveness of any future "3 am" ads will be miniscule, the NAFTA thing (which was nothing to begin with), was a news cycle. Obama came from 20 points back in two weeks and nearly won Texas, and cut Clinton's lead in half in Ohio. These two states will be very much in play in November, just because McCain has nothing except Stay the Course. Even two years of experience beats that!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Repugs are not going to go gently into the night. It's going to be one tough campaign.

Obama has shown that he rises above the fray. Give him another eight months to let the country get to know him, and we will win.

[TheDonkey]

20. Read my lips. No surrender to Hillary

He's in the lead. He should be aiming for President.

[RememberWellstone]

49. No surrender to Obama

Touche'...Clintons do not give up. You might want to rephrase your rhetoric. Obama will look like a nerd being beat up in the GE, Hill won't take that shit, she will fight. he needs to come to grips with whether he can win the nomination AND the GE. His popularity is now on the way down, thatis the truth. He has to come up with substance and not stump pep rallies. That time is now passed.

[Debi]

21. Which is why Clinton floated this

to appease Obama supporters.

[Zachstar]

I have seen an great increase in the amount of cowardly Obama supporters lately.

He is leading the game and has strong states coming up and you want him to talk about being Clinton's VP?

If anything Clinton needs to exit and beg to be his VC by taking back the crap she has pulled before. It may be the only way to save her political future at this point.

[MadBadger]

25. Completely agree. I dont understand where this all comes from. These people need to toughen up.

[MadBadger]

23. No matter what happens in PA, Obama will leave there with a total delegate lead

In no way should he consider dropping out.

[dansolo]

24. It's not a win-win if she loses the GE

He gets tainted by her stink. He'd be better off not being in any way associated with her. But I think it will be a moot point, because he will continue to increase his delegate lead throughout the remaining primaries.

[cottonseed]

26. Obama should take no slot of Hillary's.

It would be wrong on a number of levels.

[rug]

28. Checking in. Weathering the shit storm?

[Upton]

30. IF all Obama supporters were like you

he wouldn't stand a chance. Go donate to Hillary's campaign, you sound like you want to.

[amborin]

40. the world would be more decent

[democrattotheend]

52. I'm planning to send Obama more money when I get paid this week

I haven't given up by any means. I just don't want to see him go down in the general and have people thinking that nominating him was a mistake...if that happened he'd never get another chance. I am afraid that a lot of people like him but get skittish at the last minute because they just don't think he's ready.

I want to see him become president so badly, and I would rather see him be VP now than lose in November and never get another chance. But I hold out hope that we can turn things around and regain the momentum and win Pennsylvania. I'm just feeling a little demoralized today.

[AZBlue]

32. WTF?

"...working out a deal to be Clinton's VP might be his best bet."

You sure you're an Obama supporter?

[ecstatic]

37. Wow! How would you feel if you were asked to take second place

even though you had the most wins/successes? This reeks of the Apprentice scandal with Randal and Rebecca!

[cooolandrew]

38. NAFTA story false...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgpAvckNixM

Written article here too...

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=6a0ad227-2175-4142-8c40-a21c6e301223&k=46757
.
.FOR the love of god folks turn the MSM off they are destroying our lives. Watch Olberman though. Always listen to headonradionetwork.com and novamradio.com for real news. Let'get our man past the post.

Here is what to do...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yel3hRs6h54
.
.

[cooolandrew]

39. He is the front runner and will be to the end doing the sums he should go for his dreams and ours.

[cooolandrew]

44. If Hillary is proving herself dishonest why settle for 2nd best..let turn offMSM and stay motivated.

[amborin]

41. nafta possibly false, but Obama's denials that ANY meeting occurred were lies

[frazzled]

42. But he wouldn't be able to answer the phone at 3am if something happens to Hillary

She's made that perfectly clear. So he can't really run as her VP, unless she says "just kidding." And then she'd look like an asshole, and we'd lose the election. So I don't really see how that could happen.

Look, I'm serious about this. You can bloody up your opponent in all kinds of ways and still kiss and make up and form a unified front. But not if the basis of your bloodying is that your opponent is unqualified and dangerous. You don't get a do-over on that. You don't then get to turn around and say they'd be a heartbeat from the presidency.

[enfield collector]

43. you mean vice-vice-president. if HRC is president Bill will be

de facto vice president. why would Obama want to settle for that?

[FarCenter]

46. Being Vice President during an unsuccessful administration is a bad strategy

Given the economic and international position of the country, it is very likely that the next four years will involve economic recession/depression at home and political/military isolation abroad. If either Hillary or McCain wins the Presidency there is an excellent chance they will be a one term President.

Obama is better off in the Senate unless he is President, with the power and authority to meet the challenges facing the nation.

[bigdarryl]

47. I don't want him no where near the Clintons he'll be better off running in 2010 for Governor

of his state

[JackORoses]

48. How could it ever be better for the lesser candidate to be handed the Nomination?

This is such a lame attitude.

You need to look at the Delegat Math again and quit doubting Obama.

Quit acting like Hillary deserves something. Stop feeling sorry for her.
This is serious!
It is about the Future of this Nation and its People.
This is not some game. We cannot afford a Hillary Presidency.

We need the best human for the job.
We need Obama.

[NMMatt]

50. Not only no, but HELL NO -nt

[RiverStone]

53. Obama has a 99% lock on a plurality of pledged delegates

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4918154

Your rational for Obama as VP would be equivalent to him missing the boat. The time for Obama is now and his VP (who ever that may be) can run for president when Obama's term is complete - 9 years from now. :)

[Laelth]

54. A Democrat must win in November.

I refuse to make plans based upon a possible loss in November.

Sorry, but I can't take this trip with you now. Obama has a better chance of beating McCain this year. I can't wait until 2012 to have a Democrat in the White House.

:(

-Laelth

[Gore1FL]

55. Looking at the delegate count

The nomination is going to be his.

The math speaks for itself. Even if she had a 10% lead in super delegates (55% to 45%), Sen Clinton would have to tie in every upcoming state and win PA by 10%.

Of course, if the super delegates gave her the nomination by a 10%, there would be a riot at the convention, and the Super delegates know it.

Assuming a tie of super delegates (with ONLY half going with the pledged delegate leader--which seems low, frankly) she would have to win ALL of the remaining contests with 57%. Another option would be to tie in every race, excet for PA where she would need 81%...

The math is screwing her. Couple that with likely losses of the "unimportant" states of WY and MS, the road only gets steeper.

Just the facts, without the flame.

[New Dawn]

57. I'd never vote for Clinton.

She voted for the Iraq War.

[anigbrowl]

58. Good argument...but let's cross our bridges when we come to them. Also...

Obama knows more than anyone else what the real deal is - more than his campaign managers, certainly more than any of us. I trust him to make the right choice, even if it isn't obvious to us at first.

Meantime, cheer up!

[madaboutharry]

60. There is no need to feel so demoralized...

Really. I think Obama is going to be the next President as long as he and Hillary don't engage in a war that destroys the party's chances. I actually think that there is going to be a much needed intervention by Howard Dean and others to make sure that there is a nominee before the convention. Maybe there will be some deal worked out. Whatever happens, I just have to believe that we (the democrats) aren't going to screw this up.

Maybe you are really tired from all the hard work you have been doing. Take a rest. :)

[RummyTheDummy]

61. Ohio is.....

Rife with morons. They voted against their interests in 2004.

Dont feel bad. Thank you for your efforts.

[thewiseguy]

62. You need to fight on

Yes I am disappointed about Ohio but we won Texas.