Canada: Telling Americans we have no right to know. Obama: Lesson 1, No Cheney Style meetings.

[LulaMay]

Since when does anyone, especially another countries government, get off telling the American people we have no right to know what goes on in behind closed door meetings about OUR economy?

Since when is it okay to claim it's a candidates right to hold private, closed door meetings with anybody, especially another countries government, over OUR economy?

Since when is it a 'leak' for the press to investigate and inform the people of such meetings taking place, and what was said and done?

Since when is it okay for a candidate to run on a 'change' platform of ending back room politics and behind closed door meetings, like Cheney's energy party, while having back room, closed door meetings, especially with another countries government?

Since when is it okay for a campaign to engage in this type of behavior and refuse to be forthcoming about it when questioned?


IT IS OUR RIGHT TO KNOW.

Canada and the Obama campaign, Goolsbee, should be apologizing to US, rather than putting on this sideshow for their mutual benefit.

Apologies to Obama?

Apologize to us!

[DJ13]

1. The Clinton campaign was first to contact Canada about NAFTA

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3211747#3211778

[LulaMay]

3. Not claiming privacy. Not to say one thing publicly and another privately.

[TwilightGardener]

5. Obama's advisor didn't do that. That's been debunked. Sorry, no ammo here.

In fact, it was HILLARY that initiated a meeting to reassure Canada that she didn't mean what she said about NAFTA--OOOOOPS!!!

[rodeodance]

30. Fact is--both Canada and Obama were in FULL damage control yesterday.

[leftofcool]

7. actually

that is not what is says. Someone overheard someone else mention the Clinton Campaign

[UALRBSofL]

8. Please tell us the SECRET SOURCE

that names Hillary as calling Canada. And we want names, evidence of proof, LOL. At least we have the Obama memo's. :)

[LulaMay]

23. Exactly.

[amborin]

2. yes, Obama owes Americans an apology for making deals behind our backs

and worst of all:

lying and denying that ANY meeting had ever taken place between Goolsbee and Canada

then, when confronted with the bald facts, Obama said "first time he was aware of it"

give me a break

[LulaMay]

4. I think it is another example of his inexperience that causes poor knee jerk response

like what he said in the debate about his involvement with Rezko, which is now biting him in the ass.

It was a very "Kenny Boy" Who? moment.

[TwilightGardener]

9. Can you find me the quote where Obama said that Goulsbee DIDN'T

meet with a Chicago Canadian Consulate official? Because I thought his campaign denied that a meeting took place in Washington at the Canadian embassy with some (unnamed) advisor initiating a NAFTA discussion--that was the initial details of the story. Different meetings, one which didn't even happen. The story didn't get straightened out until a few days later.

[LulaMay]

18. Oh yes, it's all so complicated. His campaign flat out denied meeting with them period.

Durbin denied it on TV.

Obama is responsible for his campaign responses, no matter who gives them.

[TwilightGardener]

20. Find me a quote that specifies that once the media fingered Goulsbee

as the adviser in question, that Obama or his campaign denied that Goulsbee--specifically-- ever met with Canadians.

[LulaMay]

27. Durbin flatly denied it on TV Monday. It's Goolsbee, though I like Ghoulsbee.

he represented Obama's campaign about it.

There were other released statements from the campaign that claimed Goolsbee wasn't meeting with them as a representative of Obama, but as a UofC Econ Professor. It was ludicrous.

[TwilightGardener]

38. Denied that a meeting took place, or denied the substance or purpose

of the meeting? Because without links and quotes, this becomes an urban legend.

[LulaMay]

44. Denied that a meeting took place.

[TwilightGardener]

46. Well, I guess Durbin was wrong, but then, I don't see a link or a quote.

[Hoof Hearted]

62. Here ya go.

WASHINGTON, March 3 (UPI) -- Austin Goolsbee was not acting in his role as senior adviser to the Illinois senator's campaign when he met with Canadian officials about Obama's stance on the North American Free Trade Agreement, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said, the Chicago Tribune reported Monday.

The Hill newspaper reported that there is a memo circulating in the Canadian government that says Goolsbee said Canada should consider Obama's remarks against the free trade agreement not as a threat, but as "political positioning."

The newspaper reported Monday that initially the Obama camp denied that the meeting took place. On Sunday, Plouffe said Goolsbee was only speaking to Canadian officials informally as a University of Chicago professor and not as Obama's adviser.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/03/03/obama_camp_concedes_canada_meeting/5520/


With the Ohio primary looming, Obama has been blasting Hillary Clinton for having supported NAFTA, which many people in Ohio believe has cost the state manufacturing jobs. Clinton, meanwhile, claims Obama has also supported NAFTA in states including Illinois, where it has boosted agricultural exports, while criticizing it in Ohio.

After Canadian television reported last week that Goolsbee met with Canadian officials and reassured them about NAFTA, campaign officials denied it.

“It did not happen,” Obama told a New York television station. “The story was not true.”

http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/news/story/obama-meeting-wasnt-a-meeting-conversation-wasnt-a-conversation/



They're not hard to find, I'll bet you could even find of Obama saying the meeting didn't happen. I've seen it. Millions of others have too.

[TwilightGardener]

73. Obama said that Goolsbee didn't meet with the Canadians to tell

them not to worry about NAFTA--and that was true. He met with them previously at THEIR intiation, but it was not for that purpose, as it turns out, and the embassy apologized. Turns out that HILLARY'S campaign was the one being investigated for hypocrisy.

[LulaMay]

85. Thank you HH! When the facts are so well known, I don't always post a link.

[tyne]

6. Maybe that's because

the Canadian embassy contacted Goolsbee and during a lengthy discussion (2/8), NAFTA came up and Goolsbee didn't say anything different that what Obama has stated all along. He was NOT there on behalf of the campaign.

There's something really rotten in Denma...Canada....and Clintonland.

[leftofcool]

11. Yep, blame the Clintons

for Obama's ineptitude. If he can't deal with a country like Canada, how do you expect him to deal with.........us say, Iran?

[TwilightGardener]

15. This has nothing to do with ineptitude. This was an entirely fabricated hit job.

[LulaMay]

57. Even the Cnadian government doesn't deny the facts, but were angry the memo was leaked.

[TwilightGardener]

61. What facts? Goolsbee never said anything to them that was different

than what Obama said publicly. The Canadian government apologized already. Waiting to see what they say about Hillary now.

[LulaMay]

96. That's not what the memo states. Were you there? The Canadians are doing classic damage control.

That is all....because they were all caught with their pants down, so to speak.

[TwilightGardener]

107. The Embassy admits that Goolsbee's story is accurate. Sorry, toots.

[amborin]

12. what's rotten is Obama denied any meeting ever occurred, until confronted with the evidence

[leftofcool]

13. He sure did.

He's a liar, plain and simple

[TwilightGardener]

16. In the initial story, he didn't deny a meeting occurred, just doubted it, and

certainly didn't agree with what was being said about it. Then the embassy said that meeting didn't take place, and Obama's campaign agreed. Turns out a DIFFERENT meeting took place in Chicago, with a different advisor, who didn't INITIATE the meeting. He didn't lie at all. Hillary's campaign actually contacted the Canadians, though. Your outrage is misdirected--It's HILLARY that winked at the Canadians while lying to us.

[rodeodance]

34. ha---the RW Canada gov got caught--pub. relations is to go into damage control mode--get it!!

[StClone]

10. Much ado about nothing

Fact: Canada contacted Obama's employee and Barack was unaware.
Fact: Canada stated it wanted contacts with possible U.S. Prez. Candidates.
Fact: Canada released that they contacted Obama's Campaign.
Fact: There were no "negotiations" (which is ridiculous on the face of it).
Inference, based on fear mongering on top of nothing of substance and that's a fact.

[amborin]

14. Fact: Obama denied any meeting happened, until the evidence was in his face

[TwilightGardener]

17. You have your facts 100% wrong. The EMBASSY denied that

a meeting took place in DC. Obama was NOT AWARE that someone from the embassy contacted one of his advisors IN CHICAGO. It's HILLARY who denied a meeting ever took place, and in fact, it's true. SHE is the liar.

[LulaMay]

19. No. His campaign denied it repeatedly. Durbin denied it flat out on TV Monday.

[TwilightGardener]

22. I don't care what Durbin said. Tell me where Obama lied about Goulsbee.

[LulaMay]

31. You should care. He was speaking on Obama's behalf for the campaign. and

there were other reports preceding this where Obama was questioned and he answered he "doubted" a meeting took place, evading the question...unless you prefer the worse explanantion, that he doesn't know what his own advisors are doing, including speaking to other countries governments.

[TwilightGardener]

His camp "doubted" the initial meeting, in the WRONG first version of the

story, took place--BUT didn't deny it, in that same story. Hillary's camp flat out denied it. I want someone to find me a quote from Obama, or from one of his official campaign spokesmen, where Obama denied that Goulsbee met with Canadians.

[LulaMay]

39. So, none of his advisors knows what they're doing, or what is going on? How is this an answer?

[TwilightGardener]

48. NONE of them, or one advisor that discussed something? That's a pretty

big mountain you're trying to build out of this molehill. Especially considering the managerial incompetence of the Clinton camp.

[LulaMay]

21. PS- That's what I want, a president who claims to be unaware of what his staff is doing

[TwilightGardener]

24. His advisor was CONTACTED, not the other way around. I guess

you can blame Obama for not knowing that ONE advisor in Chicago didn't tell him that he talked to a Canadian guy. But then, I'm sure Hillary knew where all her campaign money went, right? Patti Solis Doyle didn't tell Hillary that she was broke, and then she had to lend herself 5 million? Now THAT'S mismanagement!! :rofl:

[LulaMay]

33. and held a meeting without Obama approving it or knowing about it? How comforting.

PS- Changing the subject is avoiding the question.

[TwilightGardener]

41. That's all ya got left, now, huh? Hate to see a good scandal crumble, don't ya?

[LulaMay]

52. What? What is "all ya got left?" Your statement doesn't even make sense.

[TwilightGardener]

55. You thought you had something, and it crumbled to dust. Hee!

[LulaMay]

65. No, you went around in circles over whether Obama denied it, or his advisor did it, or...?

And never made a point except to say Durbin was wrong.

Well, he was speaking for the campaign on MONDAY.

[TwilightGardener]

77. The story is nothing. The main point of it, Obama lying about NAFTA, is debunked.

Now you're left to wondering which advisor said what when. Pathetic. No "there" there.

[LulaMay]

87. 1. The meeting and remarks were not debunked 2. His lying about the meeting is the main point.

[TwilightGardener]

89. He did not lie. It was Hillary's campaign that lied. Sorry.

[LulaMay]

100. How so? You should be sorry for your misstatements and irrelevant responses.

[TwilightGardener]

103. Your entire post is bogus. Hillary is the one with the NAFTA problem now.

[amborin]

74. fact: Obama had denied there was any meeting, until confronted with evidence

The Toronto Star

March 4, 2008 Tuesday Canadian trouble engulfs Obama;

BYLINE: Tim Harper, Toronto Star

snip

The memo, obtained by The Associated Press, said Obama's top economic adviser assured a Canadian consular official during a Feb. 8 meeting in Chicago that the Illinois senator's criticism of NAFTA should be read as "political positioning (rather) than a clear articulation of policy plans."
The Obama adviser, Austan Goolsbee, said the Canadian author of the memo, Joseph DeMora, had misinterpreted his remarks during a 40-minute meeting solicited by the Canadians.

"He's not quoting me," Goolsbee told AP. "I certainly did not use that phrase in any way."
Goolsbee said maybe two or three minutes of the meeting involved discussions on NAFTA.
The release of the memo, however, placed Obama on the defensive on the issue in a state in which he was trying to score a knockout blow against Clinton today.

In Carrollton, Texas, Obama told reporters: "Nobody reached out to the Canadians to try to assure them of anything."

Asked why he had appeared to deny a report last week that such a meeting had taken place, Obama said: "That was the information I had at the time."

[TwilightGardener]

79. He told the truth. 'Nuff said. He denied that one of his advisors

was sent out to lie about NAFTA on his behalf. That's the truth. Give it up. It's over.

[rodeodance]

93. he was wishy washy and reporters and OHIO unions knew that. Hense the lose in OHIO

[LulaMay]

101. That is very spot on...contributing to his loss. Ohioans know the score. They didn't appreciate it.

[TwilightGardener]

105. Hillary lied to Ohio. And the rest of the country will find out.

[StClone]

45. Once again Bill was doing his own thing

And he had to be corralled. Hill's very husband has doing his own stand up?

[ada chupitos perez]

Obama's embassador contacted the Chicago office of Canada

that's the news so far.

[TwilightGardener]

43. Uh, no. Unless you can find me a link that says Goolsbee contacted

them first.

[StClone]

25. Tell that to Bill

Hey I will vote for Hillary no matter how bent out of shape her supporters get. Can we all just get along?

[leftofcool]

26. Sounds like Bush doesn't it?

"I didn't know Scooter Libby was leaking information on Valerie Plame"

[StClone]

28. Oh for Chrissakes

What are you trying to do here?

[LulaMay]

29. Yes. His responses in situations like this are troublesome.

Like how he made it seem he barely knew Rezko during the debate when HRC first brought it up.

Sort of "Kenny Boy" who?

[rodeodance]

32. Canda was parsing words yest. and along with Obama were in FULL damage cont. mode!!

[LulaMay]

Mutual damage control....made them both look very bad.

[StClone]

40. Obama was supposed to answer questions

Based on what he didn't fully know? Canada has apologized for the mess. So this is the great DU mind trust at work. Wow makes me wonder what the really stupid knuckle draggers sites have on us?

[TwilightGardener]

49. Waiting to hear all about Hillary and the Canadians, now that Obama's

hands are clean.

[rodeodance]

58. HA HA---that is the point--BO tried to 'esplan' but he just kept digging a hole!

[rodeodance]

50. yes--I heard BO press conf. He came across lame.

[LulaMay]

70. Sun Times reporters came to Texas because he'd evaded their questions for weeks.

It was a big story in Chicago before it became national due to their journalistic diligence and the AP report.

[amborin]

78. evade, squirm, run off in a huff

shows a lack of integrity and leadership skills

[LulaMay]

91. He turned and quickly walked away. It shows both inexperience and poor reaction

[Hoof Hearted]

35. An apology is in order, as is an explanation.

[TwilightGardener]

51. I'm waiting for Hillary to explain why she told the Canadians not to worry about NAFTA.

[Hoof Hearted]

68. Nice attempt to change the subject. The first tactic of all high-school debate teams.

[LulaMay]

71. :)

[TwilightGardener]

80. Why did Hillary lie about NAFTA? Because we know Obama didn't.

[rodeodance]

92. please do not include me in your "we". and Where is this 'lie" you claim HRC did?

[LulaMay]

97. You are really grasping at straws now, trying to change the charge to her, and misstate the facts.

[TwilightGardener]

99. Did you see the link?

edit--you posted on the Latest Breaking News thread about Hillary being the one lying about NAFTA, and being the original target of the story, and yet you make an entirely bogus post about Obama's debunked role! That takes BRASS BALLS! Congratulations!!!

[LulaMay]

109. What in the world are you talking about?

[TwilightGardener]

112. This thread--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3211747&mesg_id=3211747

[LulaMay]

121. Please see my response to this below.

[Hoof Hearted]

125. Repetition of the same sub-level tactics will not produce a new result,

neither will they absolve you.

[TwilightGardener]

59. I think so too, from Hillary:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3211747&mesg_id=3211747

[ProSense]

36. Where is Hillary's tax return?

What is Hillary hiding?

Speaking of Scooter Libby like problems, what is Hillary hiding?

[LulaMay]

37. Avoid the question, change the subject....zero points.

[ProSense]

42. No, the OP is stupid, the story is bogus, and Harper is investigating in damage control mode

What is Hillary hiding?

[LulaMay]

47. The Canadian government responds to a bogus story? Now that's stupid.

[ProSense]

53. See, stupid. The Canadian government is investigating the source of the bogus story.

It's not only illegal to interfere in another country's election, but also to pass on false information.

Get it?

[LulaMay]

76. Don't continue to call names or I won't respond. The C governement is investigating WHO 'leaked'

the memo. They are not denying a meeting took place or what was discussed.

They are claiming it was private information!

[ProSense]

86. None of this matters the story is bogus. Do you think Obama is opposed to free trade?

Do you think he's for stricter environmental, labor and safety standards?

What's the story?

You are pretending this is a big deal and it's about as stupid as the Somalian garb story.

[LulaMay]

81. Your behavior wouldn't be tolerated in any debate, you know?

I doubt you'd say it to my face either.

That's what I hate most about blogs, people feel so free to hurl things they wouldn't have the GUTS to do in person.

I try to never write something I wouldn't say i person.

[ProSense]

88. Let me make it into a full sentence: "See, this is stupid."

[LulaMay]

94. In a debate you score zero points with simple name calling and rude behavior. I won't reply again.

[ProSense]

106. I repeat the OP is stupid, the article is bogus. I don't care about your point system. n/t

[rodeodance]

56. ROVE IS HERE again FOLKS---changing the subject . Watch out. ROVE IS ON THIS THREAD!!

[ProSense]

63. Here:

Karl Rove's impersonator

[rodeodance]

67. ROVE is up to his tricks again. ALL STAY AWAY---STINKY

[ProSense]

75. Yeah, Hillary's adopted his tactics and landed

permanently behind! To quote Hillary: "Thanks Karl."

[rodeodance]

95. POT MEET KETTLE

[ProSense]

108. Are you saying I'm the same as Hillary when it comes to Rove?

Great argument! LOL!

[AtomicKitten]

54. I think you've squeezed all the juice out of that bullshit.

[rodeodance]

60. yup: BO ended up looking like BS

[AtomicKitten]

66. I guess you missed this: "A Hollow Victory Based on a Lie"

:hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4905565&mesg_id=4905565

[rodeodance]

69. Hillary 3:1 yesterday. She has the MOJO~~ go Hillary.

[AtomicKitten]

72. Moved her solidly into second place ... Wait! Isn't that where she started?

;)

[LulaMay]

82. The momentum is hers...and the powers that be can't stand that they don't bring her down.

[rodeodance]

98. yup

[AtomicKitten]

102. She wins a canned ham for coming in second.

[Lord Helmet]

119. I thought 2nd place prize was a gift certificate for a free small coke at Wendy's?

[mmonk]

64. I don't think any invasions are planned for oil.

[LulaMay]

83. Could you explain what you're saying more?

[mmonk]

110. Easy. Comparing that with the Cheney Energy Task Force is a stretch

as far as seriousness goes.

[LulaMay]

117. The comparison was made about the secrecy and denials, thougn I do believe economic policy is as

important as energy policy.

[LulaMay]

120. Obama is running on a platform of no more back room politics, ie: Bush & Cheney secrecy.

Though I'm sure his intent is not sinister, but that isn't my claim in the comparison. It's the lack of transparency, the denials, and the implication by the CAN government and Obamas responses that we have no right to know what goes on behind closed doors.

[NMMatt]

84. Hillary supporters lecturing on openness - you people become more Orwellian by the minute. -nt

[LulaMay]

90. Did you have a point or reply to the facts? What does "you people" mean?

[NMMatt]

104. Supporters of the health care task force despot lecturing others about openness

about something this trivial is Orwellian in the extreme. And by you people, I mean you... a mindless supporter of Hillary.

[LulaMay]

114. Changing the topic, avoiding an answer, calling names, don't speak anything to the question.

And , it is ridiculous and offensive to compare to HRC's efforts to get the country health care. Firstly, she was attempting to do good for the people, not telling the public one thing and doing another. Secondly, she did not deny what she was attempting to do, or that she held meetings.

[kentuck]

111. So what's the truth here??

Did Obama contact the Canadian government or did Hillary contact the Canadian government??? I am reading conflicting reports about this?

[TwilightGardener]

113. Hillary did--the media decided to go after Obama, though--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3211747&mesg_id=3211747

[LulaMay]

116. This article confirms that CTV reported the Obama campaign made innappropriate remarks, and

says nothing about his campaign denying the meeting, which they did.

In fact, it seems to indicate that although Tom Clark set out to do a report on HRC's NAFTA position, he pursued the story regarding the Obama campaigns unusual remarks and meeting as more important and timely.

It also says nothing about the CAN government claiming the memo and meeting notes were private information we had no right to know about.

Which was my original point.

[TwilightGardener]

118. LOL! Nice spin. The Canadian government has confirmed Obama's

version, but NOT HILLARY'S--:rofl:

[LulaMay]

122. No, the CAN government has said it was angry about the memo being 'leaked'

and implied the meeting information was private and implied we had no right to know about it.

They did not state that there was no meeting, or any comment about Obama denying that there was.

They did not deny what the memo stated about Goolsbee's remarks on behalf of the campaign either.

[TwilightGardener]

124. They apologized for mischaracterizing Goolsbee's remarks and confirmed

that they were never told anything different from what Obama said to the American public. And thus the story endeth. Hillary's story, however, is just beginning.

[LulaMay]

115. My point is that he denied the meeting, and the CAN government telling us we have no right to know

about such meetings and what is discussed.

But I believe the Canadian government first contacted the Obama campaign because they were distressed about his NAFTA remarks, and then the Obama campaign contacted them about having Goolsbee meet with them.

[TwilightGardener]

123. He doubted the bogus meeting that CTV talked about--when he got the facts in

about Goolsbee in Chicago, he denied that they met to reassure them about NAFTA. That's it, end of story. That dead horse is starting to decay and stink now.