I got your 50 delegate bomb right here...

[Bread and Circus]

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/5/223254/2814/719/470170

"U.S. Rep. Lacy Clay, Obama’s Missouri co-chairman and pledged Obama superdelegate, said that regardless of the superdelegate mathematics, the campaign is Obama’s. Clay said that later this week, Obama will gain the support of 50 undecided Democratic superdelegates. "

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2008/03/05/six-missouri-superdelegates-still-grabs/

"U.S. Rep. Lacy Clay, Obama’s Missouri co-chairman and pledged Obama superdelegate, said that regardless of the superdelegate mathematics, the campaign is Obama’s. Clay said that later this week, Obama will gain the support of 50 undecided Democratic superdelegates.

“She (Sen. Clinton) will not make up those numbers,” Clay said. “This race is over.”

_______________________


William Lacy Clay, Jr.

[seabeyond]

1. then i can let go of the clinton/rove/bushco thing and welcome her back to senator

one i will value and appreciate.

[stop the bleeding]

2. Ok I'm trying process this

how credible is this paper and how much belief can we put into U.S. Rep. Lacy Clay?


I am supporter of O - I just want to make sure this means what it says.

[Bread and Circus]

4. I don't know how credible she is. I'm reading up on him as we speak.

[xmas74]

9. I wouldn't put too much into this.

Most of the superdelegates are undecided in my state and they'll stay that way for quite some time.

I know that Cleaver is for HRC and I'd bet that Ike goes for her too. Ike usually represents his area in general, which would be a vote for HRC. (This I know quite well, since he is my rep and really does care about his constituents and how they feel.) Robin could go either way, though the pressure is heavy on her right now from both sides. Most of the teachers in Missouri tend to side with HRC so I'd think that Medley will represent what they've stated.

[stop the bleeding]

21. Thank you for a reasoned response

I do have one question though. I am wondering if there is a 50 then where do they come from? Cause like you said and I have seen elsewhere it seems like they're gonna go with the voters/districts. So that means if not MO then where? Now I am back to the questions of credibility in my first post.

[xmas74]

31. And thank you for being so civil to me.

I don't know where this mythical "50" comes from. All I know is that according to the article Rep Clay, the co-chair of the MO Obama campaign and a representative from the St Louis area, has made this promise. He seems to have forgotten that one of the reps listed in the article, Rep Ike Skelton (Fourth District and Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee), usually follows the will of his constituents. His constituents voted for HRC.

Comments like this will make the rural parts of the state angry, once again. Many rural Missourians are already angry with places like ST Louis and KC and the pull that they have. I suspect that if some go against the will of their constituents there will be hell to pay.

I'll look around for the number 50 but as of this time I don't understand where it is coming from.

[ginnyinWI]

98. just an aside--

Isn't it sad that when we find outselves having civil conversations, it is the exception rather than the norm. It didn't used to be this way at DU.

So here's to more party unity! :toast:

[xmas74]

104. I remember when I first began posting here

that I was welcomed with open arms. Within a couple of days I had a pm from a longtime poster offering whatever service she could to make me feel welcome.

Those days, unfortunately, are now gone.

[anigbrowl]

27. I'm sure you know MO politics best, but the 50 superdelegates Clay refers to...

could be from anywhere.

[xmas74]

33. They would have to be,

though the article cites Missouri officials and Representative Clay is the co-chair of the Missouri Obama campaign.

I'd like to know where his 50 is coming from.

[0007]

41. Ya mean like Jim Talent?

[xmas74]

76. Please don't bring that nightmare back!

We just got rid of him a couple of years' ago.

I was pissed at Claire for some comments she made about state employees but still voted for her over dumbass Talent.

[shraby]

61. Tom Brokaw said the same thing

last night on msnbc.

[xmas74]

3. I've heard that Ike plans on going

with who his constituents voted for. In this area that would be HRC, since she won the areas he represents.

[americanstranger]

5. Ouch.

The math is about to get worse for Clinton.

- as

[BeatleBoot]

6. Hey, Rep Clay said so, so its so....

end of story


:rofl:

[xmas74]

11. Considering that most in my area think that Ike

will go for HRC. From what I understand his constituents have requested this of him, since they voted for her.

(As I've stated upthread, Ike is my representative. He's very old-school but he does his best to represent the will of his constituents. KC, St Louis and Columbia went for BO while his area went for HRC. I think he'll pledge to HRC.)

[JackORoses]

15. what, BB, worry?

ahahahahaahaah!

[jenmito]

Thanks for this! I'm now gonna go to sleep happy tonight!

:hi:

[ExFreeper4Obama]

7. WOOOO HOOOOOO!!!!

Bombs Away!!!!!!

:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:


:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:


:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

[bridgit]

8. Well hasn't this really been how they got it all this far? BO being very, very short...

on anything approaching details of long term problems & solutions; it has always been all along just, "He's The Light!" "He's The One!!" period...it's been too much poetry over substance. Speechifying, preachifying. But he outspent her 4 & 5:1,, HRC rolled up & past them and they're freaked!. So it's back to the ole tried & true, "Don't bother. BO is manna from Heaven. As inevitable as The Second Coming."

[msallied]

12. Wow... aren't you a Clinton Soundbyte Machine?

Indicates laziness on your part. You might want to try a little bit of reading and actual listening to the other side rather than just listening to the Clinton echo chamber. Obama has been more than specific on the particulars of his plans, which is obvious to anyone who genuinely wants to learn.

Second -- she's not "past" anybody. She's still losing.

[bridgit]

37. It's clear few people are prepared for the ballot process in convention...

You'll be begging to watch sausage being made from scratch believe me. I'd say welcome to du...but we're full-up w/BO ditto-trons as it is, sorry

I've heard the other side, and I've had my fill of their sanctimonious, preachy, "Sing Kum-Ba-Fucking-Yah you fucking idiot!! Or I'll blow your god damn brains out!"

It's not just stale; it gets fucking old dude, enjoy your stay here while you can

[msallied]

63. I'm not new to this arena, sweetie

And gloom and doom cynicism like yours has been old for fucking years. Clinton and her ilk rail against it because doom and gloom is all they know how to create. Keep people depressed and they won't flinch a bit when they start eating farther into your pay check and your freedoms.

[bridgit]

78. I'm not referring to "this arena"...darling; I'm referring to DU...

Unless you've been banned already and are back as current this cyber-personage. But then you must be n00'b cause you've clearly not seen the "gloom and doom cynicism" brought here, as I mentioned, by BO peeps already and now yourself. I'm exercising certain of my freedoms right here right now...and you are endeavoring to thwart them yourself. All hat & no cattle? So where does that leave your vaunted position on eating my freedoms? Or are you some sort of 'binge denier' of the rights of others?

[JackORoses]

17. awww, it'll be alright. President Obama forgives you.

[bridgit]

49. Thank you for making my point!

[anigbrowl]

20. Wasn't it, um, Clinton that started the race with a 150 SuperDelegate lead?

I think you're suffering from a bit of memory loss. Hillary Clinton was Miss Inevitable for most of last year.

[bridgit]

40. Says you; I never believed that. If you thought this wasn't going to be a horse race...

It's never to late to think again

[americanstranger]

29. Umm, I think 'inevitable' was Clinton's word, wasn't it?

(And by the way - Obama is still ahead of her, just so you know.)

- as

[bridgit]

45. Welcome to Denver!

http://www.demconvention.com :patriot:

[MonkeyFunk]

55. Nope

Find one instance of her calling her victory "inevitable".

[americanstranger]

87. Oh, so we're being super-literal here. Okay.

Let me clarify.

Her campaign started that meme. A Google search of 'Clinton Campaign Inevitability' only returns 251,000 results.

http://www.google.com/search?q=clinton+campaign+inevitability&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=tp8&start=10&sa=N

The candidate hereself, however, did go on the record as saying that the campaign would be over on Super Tuesday.

- as

[redqueen]

97. "The candidate hereself, however, did go on the record as saying that the campaign would be over...

on Super Tuesday."

Hah... really?

OOPS!

[americanstranger]

102. Yeah. Here's the quote, from an ABC interview....

'So I'm in it for the long run. It's not a very long run. It will be over by February 5.'

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/Story?id=4073183&page=4

- as

[redqueen]

107. Before the first vote was cast... and despite the fact she didn't use the word "inevitable"

the sentiment is there.

How sad.

[SoCalDem]

85. The money spent was to close the TWENTY point lead she once HAD on them

True, they did nto "win"..but with delegate counts, they also did not lose all that much..

If HRC was ahead in delegates, she would be touting that aas the ONLY thing that counted.. In fact I recall her saying something very much like that , early in the season..until she got behind..

but since BHO is ahead in delegates, and numbers of states and total votes, he's kind of got it all right now..

and yes I "know" she won the "important" states, but ANY dem usually wins in "blue" states.. and especially this time around with a lackluster GrampaGrouchipants running for the right..

When a dem runs against another dem in a primary in ANY state..one will automatically win..so there's no reason to believe that minus the "winner" of a given state, the other would not have won :)

[bridgit]

92. Fair enough, but here's part of what I'm saying too: BO has been skating...

atop Oprah's evangelical endorsement of him for months. She did everything but handle snakes & talk in tongues; while alluding to not so much the down trodden masses; as a certain demographic within them and no we aren't allowed to address any specifics here even when there are.

Yet, as BO stood beside looking down his nose/nodding along in approval; she nevertheless spoke to them, their long suffering, their pain, hopes & longing for sustained change (Michelle speaks to that demo still with her 'prophetic angle' on how slothen & complacent we are as a people...can't go into just who she's channeling there, but a review of her society's; her personally loved & respected society's people of letters are where such clues reside) brought forth from the wilderness by a modern prophet of a noble, ancient people; a prophet of that very hope & change i.e. "BaRACK o-BAMA!!" and off chugged that ship into the deep and holy water cause Oprah stepped outside her pew so as to make it all thus & so. Queue Stevie Wonder.

That ship has been chugging ever since. It has chugged right past a host of ill advised straits and oceanic obstacles other candidates are *required* to navigate (by long established, and for very good reason: maritime protocols) simply because too many were afraid to ask the Capitan any questions for fear being labeled 'a Capitan hater' chug-chug-chug-chug-chug-chug-chug.....

However, when you; say you for instance, call below, "Full Stop!" on such a ship with such a mission so holy; it may likely take 10,s of miles before it comes into a state of rest at sea. With prevailing winds, and currents, perhaps a bit of the mission itself still gently blowing at it's backside the vessel will go a bit further but make no mistake,

The engine of the ship is stopped and no longer engaged as a practical matter.

And that imo is in no small measure how; BO has gotten so far thus. His supporters have not required any answers because his message was enough. And *now* the gap has closed requiring a 4-5:1 ratio of good ole fashioned money spending hand-over-fist to maintain that status of rest at sea.

It is not easy running against an unspoken, undefined man of god (small 'g'). We all sat right here and watched bush invoke such images of nondenominational 'wonder working power', and I still have empathy for folks that fall for it still :)

"GrampaGrouchipants" :toast:

[SoCalDem]

99. I understand. ..but resting on one's laurels or getting complacent is not uncommon

Obama is a "big picture/vision" guy, and Hillary's "nuts& bolts", so they are very different. The fact that Oprah annointed him as her personal candidate may have helped him, but it did not win him California..And I think it may have even cost HER some "loyal viewers".

Remember when GWB told us all how he would have "good people" around him to do the "hardwerk".. well his idea of those "good people" turned out to be nothing more than a parade of "Brownies & Rumsfelds", but I really think that Obama will/would have GOOD people surrounding him , to fill in any gaps..and most of the successful presidents were not all that experienced..

HRC's policy knowledge is admirable, and I have no doubt that she will/would be a very hard worker and would also have good people around her, but sometimes people who mean well and are very smart, can undermine their own success by being TOO involved in everything....and unable to truly delegate..

And in the final analysis, the end does not always justfy the means. To win a pyrric victory that dooms one to a half-measure of support, is no victory.

I am sure the last thing she wants, deep down, is to FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT.. But , if she wins by alienating half of her party, she only guarantees that she would lack support that she really needs(ed)..

There are worse things than losing honorably..and one of them is winning dishonorably.

:hi:

[bridgit]

106. Understood as well, we have before us an historic Democratic race for the dresidency...

Heard it said the other day BO is JFK's vision guy to LBJ's HRC nuts & bolts gal (did that made sense :(:)) which does beg the query, "Who's gonna twist the nuts & bolts?"

Peace! :hi:

[ClayZ]

10. Whooot!

[Ino]

13. I love Wm Clay, and his father before him.

He's fearless, and always votes the way I wish =my= MO rep would vote, always co-sponsors stuff I wish =my= rep would co-sponsor. I wrote him once asking him to have a talk with Russ Carnahan, who's just so spineless most of the time I'd like to slap him. Wm Clay is a very special guy.

[meow mix]

14. math matters

what else is there

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

16. Look for a major Obama scandal to rear its ugly head courtesy of Hillary Rovam Clinton.

[JackORoses]

18. their are no major Obama scandals...only Hillarite Phantoms

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

30. Your right. I should have said "pseudo-scandal".

[JimGinPA]

22. Yeah, Cause There Are No Skeletons In The Clinton Closet..

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

34. Just imagine if Obama used Hillary's "kitchen sink" strategy. . . .

He's got lots more ammunition, but in the interest of the party, Obama has shown a lot of class, unlike his campaign counterpart.

[Tarc]

19. Perhaps Obama's Uncle Tom campaigner's got to her already?

http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics/story/510737.html

[JimGinPA]

23. Her?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[anigbrowl]

24. 'Uncle Tom'?

What are you trying to imply here?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

32. The phase comes from the KC article not the poster--see here.

Cleaver, who is African-American and a superdelegate, has backed Clinton since last summer and this week re-emphasized that support. He said that he himself has not been pressured, but that black superdelegates from all over the country have been harassed, threatened with primary opponents and called “Uncle Tom.”

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

39. obmafans here calling clinton folk racist all the time.

[americanstranger]

44. So, 'They did it first' is a valid defense?

Welcome to kindergarten.

No excuse. And if an Obama supporter used that term, I'd alert then, too. I'm consistent like that.

- as

[rodeodance]

50. get real--read the story--It is obama folk calling Black delegates that!!

[americanstranger]

52. Gawd, you're dense.

For the third time....

I'll type slowly this time.

The term is offensive to me. I do not CARE who said it, in what context, for which candidate. It is offensive.

Understand now, or do I have to explain again?

- as

[rodeodance]

56. stop the name-calling!!

[americanstranger]

60. Get a grip.

You're so worked up over I don't even know what that you're completely missing my point.

You think it's all about Hillary and Obama. It isn't. It's about a term that I, and probably many others here, find offensive.

I don't know how to break it down any further for you. If you want to continue to be hysterical about it, that is your problem.

- as

[rodeodance]

64. then direct you anger at the obama surrogates!!

[americanstranger]

67. Here we go again... one more time, RD.

I already said that if an Obama supporter posted that here, I would alert on them.

I find the fact that people are being called that reprehensible, but how much control do I have over Obama's surrogates? About as much as you do.

Where I can register my disgust with terms like that one is here. And I will register that disgust no matter who uses it - Clinton supporter, Obama supporter, n00b, guest, whoever.

Are we clear?

- as

[rodeodance]

77. see posts below please--. you still are missing my point but I give up.

[rodeodance]

46. Where is YOUR OUTRAGE--that Obama surrogates are doing this to Black delegates??

[goclark]

82. Are you aware how mean some of the delegates have been

to the people that have voted them in year after year?

No you are not but some of the Delegates believe that they are Kings and Queens and walk on water.

They are telling their voters," I don't have to listen to what you think, I know what's best for you. I have the experience, you don't."

And their voters have been telling them back, "My,my ~ we will be supporting " Joe Blow" to run against you in the next election. Your gig is up."

Respect runs both ways!

Some call it mean, some call it Politics.

[xmas74]

48. But he still quoted the article

and the quote came from a well-known Missourian, who incidentially is African-American.

What you don't understand is that this is big news in Missouri right now. Cleaver is very well-liked and what he says usually goes. Well, he says that the Obama campaign is trying to strong arm him into giving his support to them.

Unless you are questioning the validity of the Kansas City Star? It's a fair paper that reports the facts and it's passed around my dining room table every morning during breakfast.

[DrFunkenstein]

47. I Could Tell Some of Things Hillary Clinton Has Been Called

But I don't. There's a different between hearing shit and stirring it.

[stillcool]

71. funny how he himself has not been pressured....

and...
"Cleaver said he did not believe that Obama himself was behind the effort against the Clinton superdelegates. “But I think he’s probably aware of it by now.” And he said Obama should address the issue."
..and...

One black supporter of Clinton, Rep. Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, said he remains committed to her. "There's nothing going on right now that would cause me to" change, he said.

He said any suggestion that elected leaders should follow their voters "raises the age old political question. Are we elected to monitor where our constituents are ... or are we to use our best judgment to do what's in the best interests of our constituents."

[xmas74]

79. He has stated that he doesn't feel pressured because

Missouri was such a close state.

That and the unsaid truth-no one pressures Cleaver into doing anything he doesn't want without worrying about him telling everyone in KC about it. Cleaver is well loved in KC and if anyone ever made any kind of untoward comment towards him it would be known before nightfall.

Piss off Cleaver and you lose KC. People from the area know that.

[stillcool]

81. No...he said...

He said that he himself has not been pressured, but that black superdelegates from all over the country have been harassed, threatened with primary opponents and called “Uncle Tom.”

However, he mentions no names...nor have any other black politicians repeated this bullshit. Nice, isn't it?

[xmas74]

84. He said that he hasn't been pressured

because Missouri was such a close race. That is in the article-or did you conveniently overlook that part?

from KC Star, 02/28/2008

"He speculated that he has escaped the pressure because, although Obama won the Missouri primary, he only defeated Clinton narrowly."

http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics/story/510737.html

And I take it you are calling Cleaver a liar? Interesting.

[stillcool]

88. I provide a quote from the article..

I said nothing about anybody lying. I read the words as they appeared on the page. Bad habit.

He said that he himself has not been pressured, but that black superdelegates from all over the country have been harassed, threatened with primary opponents and called “Uncle Tom.”

[xmas74]

91. Yet you did say this:

However, he mentions no names...nor have any other black politicians repeated this bullshit. Nice, isn't it?

Most would view that as you calling Cleaver a liar. You stated that he is not naming names (though the rumor in Missouri has been that it came from Jackson, Jr and Clay). You also stated that what he said was bullshit.

Sounds like you're calling Cleaver a liar. I'd say most of his constituents would see it as such.

It just seems silly to question the word of a well-respected representative and a beloved former mayor. He's believed in my state by nearly all. I believe him. Members of the Jackson County Democratic Party believe him. Why can't you?

[stillcool]

95. I was seeking information on ..

who actually said what to who. Crazy eh? Maybe I'm a little late to this party and his constituents have already read this, so they already have a better understanding of what was actually said.

Black Lawmakers Rethink Clinton Support
February 15, 2008 - 1:33am
Democratic presidential hopeful, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., gestures while speaking at a campaign stop at The Ohio State University, in Columbus, Ohio, Thursday, Feb. 14, 2008. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)
By DAVID ESPO
AP Special Correspondent
WASHINGTON (AP) - In a fresh sign of trouble for Hillary Rodham Clinton, one of the former first lady's congressional black supporters intends to vote for Barack Obama at the Democratic National Convention, and a second, more prominent lawmaker is openly discussing a possible switch.

Rep. David Scott's defection and Rep. John Lewis' remarks highlight one of the challenges confronting Clinton in a campaign that pits a black man against a woman for a nomination that historically has been the exclusive property of white men.

"You've got to represent the wishes of your constituency," Scott said in an interview Wednesday in the Capitol. "My proper position would be to vote the wishes of my constituents." The third-term lawmaker represents a district that gave more than 80 percent of its vote to Obama in the Feb. 5 Georgia primary.

Lewis, whose Atlanta-area district voted 3-to-1 for Obama, said he is not ready to abandon his backing for the former first lady. But several associates said the nationally known civil rights figure has become increasingly torn about his early endorsement of Clinton. They spoke on condition of anonymity, citing private conversations.


Clinton's recent string of eight primary and caucus defeats coincides with an evident shift in momentum in the contest for support from party officials who will attend the convention. The former first lady still holds a sizable lead among the roughly 800 so-called superdelegates, who are chosen outside the primary and caucus system.

But Christine Samuels, until this week a Clinton superdelegate from New Jersey, said during the day she is now supporting Obama.

Two other superdelegates, Sophie Masloff of Pennsylvania and Nancy Larson of Minnesota, are uncommitted, having dropped their earlier endorsements of Clinton.

On Wednesday, David Wilhelm, a longtime ally of the Clintons who had been neutral in the presidential race, endorsed Obama.

The comments by Scott and Lewis reflect pressure on Clinton's black supporters, particularly elected officials, not to stand in the way of what is plainly the best chance in history to have an African-American president.

"Nobody could see this" in advance, Rep. Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, the highest-ranking black in Congress, said of Obama's emergence. He is officially neutral in the race, but expressed his irritation earlier in the year with remarks that Clinton and her husband the former president had made about civil rights history.

One black supporter of Clinton, Rep. Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, said he remains committed to her. "There's nothing going on right now that would cause me to" change, he said.

He said any suggestion that elected leaders should follow their voters "raises the age old political question. Are we elected to monitor where our constituents are ... or are we to use our best judgment to do what's in the best interests of our constituents."
In an interview, Cleaver offered a glimpse of private conversations.

He said Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. of Illinois had recently asked him "if it comes down to the last day and you're the only superdelegate? ... Do you want to go down in history as the one to prevent a black from winning the White House?

"I told him I'd think about it," Cleaver concluded.

Jackson, an Obama supporter, confirmed the conversation, and said the dilemma may pose a career risk for some black politicians. "Many of these guys have offered their support to Mrs. Clinton, but Obama has won their districts. So you wake up without the carpet under your feet. You might find some young primary challenger placing you in a difficult position" in the future, he added.

[xmas74]

96. Still sounds to me like you

called Cleaver a liar. It also sounds like you still don't take what he said as the truth and are making threats about his character-the character of a well loved former mayor of KC and a Methodist minister. (Not former minister-he is the Senior Pastor at St. James UMC in KC. I have friends in his congregation and they all believe him at his word.)

Of course, if it goes against what you have already decided then it must be wrong.

Just to tell you a bit about Rep. Cleaver: he was the first African-American elected to the office of mayor in KC. He was well-loved enough to take a second term before he decided to run for the US House. He was the President of the National Conference of Black Mayors for two terms.

Sounds like sound credentials to me, as they would to most. He's not known for lying so why would you question it?

[stillcool]

108. I'm sure you would see it that way....

I provide you an article which provides actual quotes regarding this subject, but you prefer an article with acerbic language, and zero confirmation. I'm sure it's right up your alley.

[xmas74]

111. What?

That I use the article from my local paper? Since when is the KC Star not good enough for you? I refer to the paper that Cleaver speaks to on a regular basis, the paper of Cleaver's constituents. I remember reading this-in print-the morning the story broke. I am a daily subscriber to the KC Star and I enjoy reading it while drinking a cup of coffee every morning. There is nothing wrong with my source-except that you did not write it yourself.

I do think that you have a bit of a problem here. If you don't like what the KC Star reported why don't you write a LTTE in care of the paper? I'm sure they will bow down to your superior wisdom, immediately fire the author of the previous article and will give your LTTE the front page.

Then, you can convince the people that you feel have yet to be convinced-Cleaver's constituents. He represents District Five-mostly Jackson County, Missouri. Of course I have no idea what I'm talking about, since I live along the border.

Please, Oh Wise One, tell the KC Star all about how sloppy their journalism is, how horrible of a liar Emmanuel Cleaver is and how you know the real story. I'll provide you a few links to make your job easier.

Letters to the Editor
[e-mail]
[phone]
The newspaper welcomes readers’ opinions in letters to the editor, Voices, As I See It columns and op-ed submissions.
Send letters of up to 150 words to The Kansas City Star, Letters, 1729 Grand Blvd., Kansas City, MO 64108. You can also send by email to [e-mail]. Please include name, address and daytime phone number. Letters will be edited for length and clarity and may be published by The Star electronically.

Here is the website to Rep Cleaver's church. I'm sure it would be ever so much easier to drop a letter here and speak to his constituents and members of his congregation.

http://www.stjamesumc.com/

And his email address at the church:

Sr. Pastor Emanuel Cleaver, II [e-mail]

So, what's stopping you from sharing your information with the people? Get to it instead of sharing it with someone not listening to your pompous braying.

[stillcool]

112. Oh now see....

I provided you with an article quoting who said what, but you like your local paper's interpretation, rather than seeing the words as they were actually spoken. I am not surprised. It doesn't play as well, does it? Thanks for the links, but my Letters to the Editor are confined to my states newspapers mis-interpretations of the facts. I would assume that your state's citizens do the same? Thankfully, I only have to do a little search and determine the facts about which you post. Easy-peasy.


Black Lawmakers Rethink Clinton Support
February 15, 2008 - 1:33am
Democratic presidential hopeful, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., gestures while speaking at a campaign stop at The Ohio State University, in Columbus, Ohio, Thursday, Feb. 14, 2008. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)
By DAVID ESPO
AP Special Correspondent
WASHINGTON (AP) - In a fresh sign of trouble for Hillary Rodham Clinton, one of the former first lady's congressional black supporters intends to vote for Barack Obama at the Democratic National Convention, and a second, more prominent lawmaker is openly discussing a possible switch.

Rep. David Scott's defection and Rep. John Lewis' remarks highlight one of the challenges confronting Clinton in a campaign that pits a black man against a woman for a nomination that historically has been the exclusive property of white men.

"You've got to represent the wishes of your constituency," Scott said in an interview Wednesday in the Capitol. "My proper position would be to vote the wishes of my constituents." The third-term lawmaker represents a district that gave more than 80 percent of its vote to Obama in the Feb. 5 Georgia primary.

Lewis, whose Atlanta-area district voted 3-to-1 for Obama, said he is not ready to abandon his backing for the former first lady. But several associates said the nationally known civil rights figure has become increasingly torn about his early endorsement of Clinton. They spoke on condition of anonymity, citing private conversations.


Clinton's recent string of eight primary and caucus defeats coincides with an evident shift in momentum in the contest for support from party officials who will attend the convention. The former first lady still holds a sizable lead among the roughly 800 so-called superdelegates, who are chosen outside the primary and caucus system.

But Christine Samuels, until this week a Clinton superdelegate from New Jersey, said during the day she is now supporting Obama.

Two other superdelegates, Sophie Masloff of Pennsylvania and Nancy Larson of Minnesota, are uncommitted, having dropped their earlier endorsements of Clinton.

On Wednesday, David Wilhelm, a longtime ally of the Clintons who had been neutral in the presidential race, endorsed Obama.

The comments by Scott and Lewis reflect pressure on Clinton's black supporters, particularly elected officials, not to stand in the way of what is plainly the best chance in history to have an African-American president.

"Nobody could see this" in advance, Rep. Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, the highest-ranking black in Congress, said of Obama's emergence. He is officially neutral in the race, but expressed his irritation earlier in the year with remarks that Clinton and her husband the former president had made about civil rights history.

One black supporter of Clinton, Rep. Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, said he remains committed to her. "There's nothing going on right now that would cause me to" change, he said.

He said any suggestion that elected leaders should follow their voters "raises the age old political question. Are we elected to monitor where our constituents are ... or are we to use our best judgment to do what's in the best interests of our constituents."
In an interview, Cleaver offered a glimpse of private conversations.

He said Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. of Illinois had recently asked him "if it comes down to the last day and you're the only superdelegate? ... Do you want to go down in history as the one to prevent a black from winning the White House?

"I told him I'd think about it," Cleaver concluded.

Jackson, an Obama supporter, confirmed the conversation, and said the dilemma may pose a career risk for some black politicians. "Many of these guys have offered their support to Mrs. Clinton, but Obama has won their districts. So you wake up without the carpet under your feet. You might find some young primary challenger placing you in a difficult position" in the future, he added.

[xmas74]

113. But I also linked you to

the congregation that Cleaver preaches at, when he's not in DC.

Such an important message-don't you think they should hear about it? And especially from someone who was not even there when it happened?

Besides, didn't Tubbs-Jones also acknowledge that she had been threatened when she spoke at the Black State of the Union? And didn't John Lewis decide to go with Obama only after he was repeatedly threatened by various community members, some of which did work for the Obama campaign in his state?

As to my newspapers LTTE-we take them from all over the US. Doesn't every paper do so? Just looking through the paper this morning I noticed more than a few were from outside of MO/KS.

You have the answers, now share them with the people that matter. Share you expert opinion with the people of KC! Of course, being from the Show-Me State we'll demand that you give actual facts as to why we are not supposed to trust a well-loved area politician and a Methodist minister.

[stillcool]

114. I guess I did not make myself clear.

I replied with an article that had the actual "quotes" in it. I happen to enjoy reading what was said by who. It just...I don't know...makes it more real to me. I am so happy that you are pleased with your state's style of journalism. I'm also happy for you that one of your state's representatives endorsed the candidate you support. I would have really liked to know more about THIS story, but I see there are no other facts reported. Have a nice life.

[xmas74]

115. I am quite happy with my state.

I am happy with my state's newspapers, I am happy with a few of my reps (very happy with Cleaver and with Skelton, my representative) and I am happy with one of my senators (McCaskill, even though she has chosen not to support my candidate. Your comment about the support of a candidate doesn't fly since I still support McCaskill.)

What you have done is refused to listen to anything but the noises floating around inside your little brain. I've read other sources and have listened to the words of those who actually know Cleaver. They've all said the same thing-someone was trying to intimidate him into switching his support. It's really rather pathetic that you refuse to admit that this sometimes happens. It can happen on the smallest scale imaginable and it certainly happens on a larger scale. What's not to believe when it's reported on a presidential scale?

As to my life-right now I'm quite happy. I have a beautiful daughter. She's in the accelerated program at school, she's a Girl Scout, she's on the swim team, she is in the church choir and the bell choir and she has recently been asked to participate in her school's honor choir. I am involved in many different organizations throughout my town, I am a volunteer with various charities located in my small town and I have a small but very close circle of friends. I am contemplating what to plant in my garden so that this summer my backyard (and my pantry) will smell heavenly. I am also thinking about taking a few more enrichment classes. Oh, and I have the pick of my book club's next book. I've also been named as a PTO officer for next year.

Small town life. Simple to most but grand to me. I think life is going quite well right now.

[xmas74]

38. It's nothing to alert from this time.

That actually comes from the article. It's huge news in Missouri, knowing that Representative Cleaver (the beloved former mayor of KC and a very well-liked US Rep) has received thinly-veiled threats from the Obama camp in Missouri, of which Rep Clay is the co-chair.

[rodeodance]

43. This art. has been sited all weeks. apparently these Obamafolk are behind. now OUTRAGE

[americanstranger]

51. Let me explain.

I don't care about the article. I don't care if it's been around all week, or for ten years.

Hell, I don't even care which side the article supports or slams.

The term used is offensive. What don't you get here?

- as

[rodeodance]

54. oh get a grip. your FAUX OUTRAGE is beyond the pale.

[americanstranger]

58. You don't think that term is offensive?

You seem pretty upset that Obama's people used it.

Do I not have the same right to find a term offensive, or is it just 'faux outrage' because I back a different candidate than you?

Anyone who calls himself a liberal should be bothered by that term showing up on a progressive message board - no matter what the context.

I'm trying to be as clear about it as I can here, and all you want to do is type in caps. Calm the fuck down.

- as

[rodeodance]

66. of course i do not like it--but you

alert someone --not knowing how the context of the term. shame on you.

[americanstranger]

68. Fuck that. NO excuse for using that term.

None. I don't care.

We're supposed to be better than that.

Using that term to make a point is where you should direct your wagging finger. That is inexcusable.

I'm not giving on this. Don't shame me for having a conscience and sensitivity. Don't you dare.

- as

[rodeodance]

72. too bad--your outage is misplace and i am done talkingig with you.

[Tarc]

93. Spare us this pathetic faux outrage, please

People acting on Barack Obama's behalf are using the Uncle Tom pejorative. There have been many posts and topics about this over the last week, and there is nothing wrong with me or anyone else using it in the context of reporting this serious and noteworthy news event.

[americanstranger]

100. Oh, okay. nothing wrong with it.

Got it.

Hey, use it all you want. I still think it's pretty despicable, but I guess that's just me.

And remind me to check with you when I want to know if my outrage is real or not - because you Hillary supporters seem to think you're the final authority on that sort of thing.

- as

[Tarc]

101. Will do, chief

You were good for a bit of comedy there, at least.

[americanstranger]

103. Spoken like a true progressive.

But, hey - if you think using a racist term is funny, go for it. Laugh it up.

- as

[Tarc]

105. Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Using the term in the context of reposting an article from a newspaper is not even remotely the same as actually using the term as a pejorative to describe a person.

One can talk about and discuss reprehensible issues without actually supporting or echoing the subject of the discussion y'know. There's lots of history books about Hitler, and silly me, I don't think the fact that they exist or that people quote from them is a glorification of the Reich.

[xmas74]

53. I read the article in the paper

when it was first reported.

I'm a subscriber to the KC Star. I read it every morning while drinking my coffee. I then take the paper to work with me and offer it to my coworkers.

This article made the rounds at work in a huge way. It was passed along, photocopied and eventually emailed. After reading the article a few coworkers who voted for Obama on Super Tuesday stated that they had to "rethink their decision" to support him.

No one here seems to understand this little fact: In KC you don't "f" with Cleaver and get away with it.

[rodeodance]

35. read the article--term used Obama people who are harrassing delegates:

Cleaver, who is African-American and a superdelegate, has backed Clinton since last summer and this week re-emphasized that support. He said that he himself has not been pressured, but that black superdelegates from all over the country have been harassed, threatened with primary opponents and called “Uncle Tom.”

[NMMNG]

70. Nobody is implying anything

The article is stating that some people are claiming that any black person who doesn't vote for Obama is an...you know. I'm not going to print it since you take such offense to it. Go read the article and you'll see it.

[xmas74]

80. the poster has refused to read the article.

They know that if they read it they will have to accept what Cleaver is saying.

Certain posters here don't want to hear anything bad about a certain candidate.

[NMMNG]

89. Yep

That's pretty common around here. Obama good, Hillary bad. Rinse, lather, repeat.

[xmas74]

90. Which is why I thank ya'll for the

sanctuary!

[ExFreeper4Obama]

42. deleted

deleted

[rodeodance]

62. It was Obamasurrogates calling Black delegates that!! name-calling by you also. fits!

[ExFreeper4Obama]

69. Fine, I deleted my "name-calling" post

I just don't agree with the use of the term "Uncle Tom." Whether is an Obama supporter or not. Blacks get alot of flak in America with that term and it angers me a great deal.

[xmas74]

74. Cleaver did say that

in his quote for the article.

In few cases would I ever want to hear that phrase thrown about. This time it's a direct quote from a reputable paper quoting a politician whom is quite well-known in Missouri.

Some of the other posters have not read the article and would rather argue, even though it's a quote and the link was provided.

[rodeodance]

75. It angers me also. It should not be. Thanks.

[stillcool]

65. Hey...whitey...

have some quotes to go with your hit piece.

One black supporter of Clinton, Rep. Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, said he remains committed to her. "There's nothing going on right now that would cause me to" change, he said.

He said any suggestion that elected leaders should follow their voters "raises the age old political question. Are we elected to monitor where our constituents are ... or are we to use our best judgment to do what's in the best interests of our constituents."

In an interview, Cleaver offered a glimpse of private conversations.

He said Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. of Illinois had recently asked him "if it comes down to the last day and you're the only superdelegate? ... Do you want to go down in history as the one to prevent a black from winning the White House?

"I told him I'd think about it," Cleaver concluded.

Jackson, an Obama supporter, confirmed the conversation, and said the dilemma may pose a career risk for some black politicians. "Many of these guys have offered their support to Mrs. Clinton, but Obama has won their districts. So you wake up without the carpet under your feet. You might find some young primary challenger placing you in a difficult position" in the future, he added.


http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=213&pid=0&sid=1345594&page=2

[geek tragedy]

25. Campaign has already denied Brokaw's report.

This is not true. Someone needs to tell Clay to read blogs.

[Freddie Stubbs]

83. Are you suggesting that Rep. Lacy Clay doesn't know what he is talking about?

:shrug:

[geek tragedy]

94. Yes. n/t

[Eurobabe]

57. Oh, but Obama didn't win any of the states that MATTER

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[grantcart]

59. Its been denied

If it was a real leak they would have spread it around to more reporters.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/03/its_wrong.html

March 04, 2008
"It's Wrong"
A spokesman for Barack Obama told On Call that Tom Brokaw's earlier report, that there are 50 superdelegates ready and willing to announce their support for the IL senator, is incorrect.

The spokesman wrote flatly in an e-mail: "It's wrong."

The very wonderful Brokaw is doing play-by-play tonight for MSNBC

[Bread and Circus]

86. Ok, I will take that on face value.

[RememberWellstone]

73. Cocky from the head down.

Obama chooses his Oompas Loompas nicely. Be careful how high you get, it's just farther drop when you fall.

[rndmprsn]

109. K&R...its over =]

[zulchzulu]

110. Send Hillary a Xerox of this commentary

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