*******NYT- Clinton Wins Alter Race. Dean Says FL & MI may be seated*******

[LulaMay]

It's huge folks. The party leaders see how important this is. Ted Kennedy: "everyone is sort of taking a deep breath now".


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/06/us/politics/06elect.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

[Snowbot]

1. Gentlemen, start your lawyers.....

[LulaMay]

3. Party leaders won't have that. They want a solution.

[MadBadger]

2. "Provided they agreed to Follow the rules"

Meaning they wont be seated as is if they are.

[LulaMay]

7. No, he said they are considering seating THE delegates, not selecting new ones.

His language seemed to be in reference to the current delegates, not a do-over.

Even a do-over would be huge though.

[LulaMay]

9. wrong post reply deleted

[mtnester]

4. You left a very important part out

Dean says yes they can be seated if they follow the rules, like holding a caucus (basically a do-over with a different process)

The other portion of the rules set down (not in the article) is that they can appeal on how to seat the existing delegates through the convention committees.

[SoCalDem]

8. HRC would never ALLOW caucuses..

caucuses are not her "thing".. HRC campaign likes primaries...especially with eeeeelectronic counting macheeeens..:evilgrin:.

Why not just have a mail-in ballot like Oregon does?..and make them all "due" by Apr 30.. I'm sure there are plenty of printers who could use the work..

[LulaMay]

10. No, it is huge regardless how they're seated/counted. The change in party attitude is huge.

[cali]

5. That's some selective reading you're doing.

They'll work something out, but it won't be seating the delegates as is. Just not going to happen- outside fantasy hillyworld.

[MadBadger]

6. If they did do that, and Hillary won. I'd guarantee a Dem loss in the GE

[LulaMay]

11. Gallup Poll has her beating McCain now. Why be so pessimistic??!!

[MadBadger]

13. I'm only pessimistic if the election is stolen based on seating Florida and Michigan as is.

though that wont happen.

[LulaMay]

14. Stolen? By who.....party leaders? It was never smart to discount those states.

[MadBadger]

16. Rules are ruls. Seating Michigan would be entirely unfair, and seating Florida is just unfair.

[LulaMay]

17. You didn't answer my question. Would you say the party was stealing it for Clinton?

Be serious man.

[MadBadger]

22. Id say that Hillary stole the election.

[LulaMay]

27. How so? Would she twist Howard's arm behind his back? Ted Kennedy's? Laughable.

[MadBadger]

29. What does Teddy have to do with any of this?

Look its a mute point. Howard wont wilt to Hillary's pressure. You know Terry MaCauliffe said that you cant change the rules in the middle of the thing when referring to superdelegates. Well, sounds like a bit oh hypocrisy on the Clinton campaign's side.

[LulaMay]

35. He's a party leader. This is about what the party is saying and doing, not HRC!

[MadBadger]

37. Please this whole thing is about Hillary's dishonesty and double-speak on this issue

She used to think Michigan and Florida were merely beauty contests...until she realized she may need them. Then it became about voters being disenfranchised.

[LulaMay]

42. You don't want to talk about anything, do you? I don't care if you read the article or not.

[my3boyz]

25. YES....The rules before this started was that they would not be seated

Now that Hillary is losing, they want to change the rules. Yeah, it sucks for Floridian voters but that does not mean it is fair to Barack to seat them. You don't change the rules in the middle of the game. They should either seat them evenly (half to Barack and half to Hillary) or leave it as is.

[LulaMay]

28. and now the party has to deal with that short sighted move and fix it somehow.

[NDambi]

47. Many conversations yesterday say the Dem party will lose if they pull BS with Fl & MI..not

one black person I spoke will take it lying down..

sorr thems the facts...pessimistic or not.

So, they'd better come up with something agreeable to everyone, or we all lose.

[LulaMay]

55. Women and other HRC supporters have been upset too. There needs to be a solution, compromises,

or we all lose.

That would be a shame when we can all win.

[peacebaby3]

58. Neither will this white woman. I'll leave the Dem party if they screw around

with something like this.

[Apollo11]

18. Recent poll shows Hillary would be our strongest candidate against John McCain

The following is based on the results of Rasmussen Reports rolling polls. The pattern since Feb 5th is very interesting.

Around 3 weeks ago, Obama was beating McCain by up to 8 points. Hillary was losing to McCain by up to 6 points. So it looked like only Obama could beat McCain!

Now, McCain beats Obama by 5 points, but Hillary is almost tied with McCain. So maybe Hillary is the strongest candidate to go up against John McCain? :eyes:

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/general_election_match_up_history

[MadBadger]

24. Rasmussen...HA! WaPo Poll shows Obama up 12, and Hillary up 6

[LulaMay]

30. What do you know? She's ELECTABLE after all, even w/ her 'unpleasant personality'!

Amy Poehler, I HEART you!

[LulaMay]

12. Baloney! It is HUGE however they do it, the attitude shift is huge.

[bluestateguy]

15. Primaries or caucuses might be preferable to having the matter settled in court

And it might reduce the chances that this will be settled by the convention.

[LulaMay]

19. Agreed. Dean's remarks didn't read as a 'do-over' though....a caucus maybe.

Still, an enormous shift in attitude.

[Birthmark]

20. The DNC had better come to its senses.

Disenfranchising me and my wife for what Party officials did doesn't cut it. Even the Republicans knew that. They only penalized FL and MI half their delegates. The DNC apparently has no regard for the average FL Democrat.

My bottom line is my sig line. Read it, Dr. Dean. I'm not alone in this.

[LulaMay]

39. I agree with you. It was a dumb, disenfranchising decision. Didn't they consider a close contest?

[LulaMay]

41. Would you please K & R, so others can read the article.

[SoCalDem]

21. She won another one?? The Alter race?

as in alter-nate math contest?
alter Obama's totals so she wins?
alter the rules so she can get close enough to maybe win?
alter the status of states, so his don't count?

THAT "alter race"??

[PITBOS]

23. **WARNING** this is another example how the HRC camp

distorts the truth. She is very unethical and in the gutter with her campaign. Dean has been VERY clear that he doesn’t want to seat those delegates as is; since they all agreed to the rules. He'll have to call out HRC directly that she needs to get off the low road for once. Amazing how she will try and win at all cost. No wonder she is loated by so many in this country.

[LulaMay]

31. Oh for crying out loud, read the article. It has nothing to do with remarks by HRC

[PITBOS]

33. so you think HRC is honest!?!?!

[Diane R]

26. I heard Jonathan Alter on KO. He said no such thing. OP is exaggerating.

[LulaMay]

32. What are you talking about?! READ "Clinton Wins Alter Delegate Race's Dynamic"

The attitude change is huge, and Dean talks about seating the delegates.

[eShirl]

34. you make it sound as if they are getting their way against the party rules

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4921691&mesg_id=4921691

[LulaMay]

36. No, I'm saying read this NYT article about the PARTY shift in attitude and plans.

[eShirl]

38. they are planning, as they have been all along, to follow the rules

no rules are suddenly now going to be bent or broken

[LulaMay]

45. They did not indicate before this that they'd seat the delegates. ATTITUDE change.

Ask a Floridian.

[eShirl]

50. ok, you hold onto that

[LulaMay]

52. Hold onto what, the article content and statements by Dean? Do you have a point?

[blogslut]

40. The headline of the article reads: Clinton Success Alters Delegate Race’s Dynamic

How you got "Clinton Wins Alter Race" out of that or the content of the article is anybody's guess.

[LulaMay]

43. Are you serious? The paraphrasing didn't change the meaning AT ALL. I was fitting it on the page.

Good god, your remark is tedious.

[blogslut]

44. Uh huh

Clinton Wins Alter Race. No manipulation there. None whatsoever. As far as I know.

[LulaMay]

46. Ask an English teacher. Success = Wins, 'Alters Delegate Race Dynamics'= Alter Race

Give me a freaking break.

Read the article or don't, I don't care if you want to know about news or not.

[blogslut]

48. I read the article

Every word. I'm not going to discuss it any further. You know what you did there.

[LulaMay]

49. You made no sense whatsoever. The article stands on it's face.

[RBInMaine]

51. If anything, there will have to be a re-vote.

[LulaMay]

54. I don't know.....that's not what Dean seemed to be saying.

[Dogmudgeon]

53. Before we go shooting our mouths off ...

... why doesn't someone get the actual rules and read them.

If I recall correctly, the "punishment" was that FL and MI would have to re-apply with a new delegate plan and a primary/caucus/whatever at the end of the season. Which is what Chairman Dean is encouraging.

But I could be wrong. So find the rules and check them out.

Just about every post in this thread is based on an uninformed opinion. If you're going to cite the rules, you need to actually have the rules handy to cite.

For everybody.

Period.

--p!

[LulaMay]

56. The point is the attitude shift and that Dean discussed seating delegates, not necessarily a re-do.

[smiley_glad_hands]

57. OP is just trying to sway some momentum to HRC on the subject.

Are you willing to do caucuses in Fl and MI? Those are the rules Hilliary.

[madfloridian]

59. That is not the truth.