It is very, very good when Republicans vote for Obama but very, very bad when they vote for Clinton.

[QC]

Could someone please explain this reasoning to me? I can't quite grasp it.

[DemzRock]

1. It's just newbie hypocricy. Some people think their candidate is a Saint so anything

that helps him is God's will or something.

[MoonRiver]

"Newbie" hypocrisy?

It's part of the Obamaton play book. The messiah himself declares as much from on high.

[AllexxisF1]

82. Oh...

How about a vote for Obama is genuine a vote for Hillary isn't.

Republican Hillary votes are simply ones to have her get the nod because she would be easiest to defeat.


Oh yea then there's this point.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. You Can Read People's Minds?

~

[LostinVA]

2. This should be interesting

:popcorn:

Of course, I totally agree with you.

[LeftCoast]

5. Pass some of that over here!

:popcorn:

:D

[LostinVA]

12. Cinnamon sugar, cayenne, or just salt?

[LeftCoast]

13. Just a little salt please!

:)

OT: Never heard of cayenne on popcorn. I may have to try that in rl some day.

[NMMNG]

78. You're gonna need more than that

[tekisui]

3. They didn't play a significant role ANYWHERE.

If you look at the exit polls, the pukes didn't change the Democratic outcome of any state for Hillary or Obama.

If it's an open primary, I say the more the merrier. Voters are breaking for Dems BIG TIME this primary, and no one knows what their motivation is.

[elixir]

85. I think I may have an inkling...hmm.. to F$*@ up the Dems!

[Iris]

4. I support Hillary, but haven't always.

I didn't think there was any way she could win because the Republicans have successfully demonized her to there basest base. So, when a Republican like that all of a sudden starts talking about voting for her, there's something wrong there. I'm saying this as someone who lives in Georgia and voted in the open primary as a Republican last year so I could vote AGAINST Ralph Reed.

Having said that, I'm sure there are Republicans who are not part of the 28% that think Bush hung the moon who have no problem voting for her. I know my Democrat in name only sister-in-law has finally realize her hatred of Hillary was manufactured by someone else.

[Saturday]

6. I think if you just have a little sip of kool aid it will all make sense. nt

[LaurenG]

7. This is what I heard from Hannity

According to the right wingers, they were told by republican talking heads that getting Hillary in the dem candidate seat would make it easier for McCain to win. Coversely they said Obama would be a harder candidate to overcome and would only make it harder for a republican win.

[axollot]

15. The gig is up.....

The hard core neo con - repukes are running scared because so many of them know that they are going to have either a woman or *gasp* a black man in the WH - most likely they will end up having both.

Sitting back m'self and munching on the :popcorn: - this is one of the best presidential races I've ever seen in my life time.

McCain - I don't think has a chance!

Cheers
Sandy

[LaurenG]

18. I sincerely hope you are right about McCain

he would take us back years and years.

[axollot]

29. Me too!

There are just so many people out there - the ones that are fence sitters that are simply sick of *WAR* and more *WAR* which is what McCain continues to push for in his speeches.

His rebuttals are empty and weak - Obama, is great at squashing the BS tossed at him. In fact, I've never seen a candidate be so much like the old childhood saying of "I'm rubber and your glue" everything seems to bounce off of Obama and then put him in a good light.

It amazes the shit out of me!

Here I am living in the deep south of NE-FL - I've met more ex-Bush supporters that are all for Obama *shrug*, after seeing the 2000 and 2004 elections and war drum beating around here. These are people that have the rebel flag hanging somewhere at home or on their car! And, yet are for Obama! (you have to get past Orlando - before you get out of the 'deep' south here and even then some rural areas make you hear 'dueling banjo's' in your head still!)

Cheers
Sandy
who came here just in time for the *shrub* to get elected.....argh!

[Iris]

23. Good points.

And I also feel like I'm watching the best presidential race I've ever seen!

[rodeodance]

31. haha--sad case you obamafolk -listening to the Rush and Hannity types!!

[LaurenG]

38. Now now, someone has to find out why this happened

I can only get AM stations when I'm waiting for my husband at his work place. This is Cincinnati, my choices are very limited on AM radio. I can get Hannity or a hateful religion station.

Nice comeback though. :P

[JoFerret]

34. I trust Hannity

Always.
Naturally.

(This speculation is all nonsense.

We have two great candidates. both politicians. one will be the nominee. Hurray.
That nominee will sweep the election if the dems get out their base(s).)

[LaurenG]

39. I don't trust Hannity, but that isn't the point

This was what they were told to do by rush or someone as I heard Hannity say so. However I have a coworker who said there was a big get out the vote in the republican sector and they were told to vote that way. A question was asked by the OP and to the best of my knowledge this is what happened. :shrug:

[jakem]

8. the reasoning i believe, fwiw:

- repubs are genuinely crossing over and have interest in Obama
- repubs genuinely do not like HRC, therefore:

a R vote for Obama may just stick for the GE, while a R vote for HRC in a primary will flip to McCain later-

[Mass]

9. Rush Limbaugh called for Republicans to vote Clinton to beat Obama.

That is what is bad. If some Republicans believe that Hillary is best for the country, they should vote for her, but this is not what transpired. (and any Republican that will vote for Obama for similar reason is very bad, but there are some Republicans that are genuinely tired of politics as usual and are attracted by Obama).

What they want is to be sure that the primary will last until the Convention, so that McCain can start campaigning without opposition for the next few months.

[LeftCoast]

11. Hmm...so competing against two Democratic candidates is better than against one?

I'm not sure I agree with the logic here...

[Mass]

17. The hope is that the Democrats will tear each other apart while McCain can raise money and increase

his positives without problems. Did you hear Clinton or Obama criticize McCain yesterday? And Dean, who has been doing that well, is busy answering questions about the Democratic process, so he cannot attack McCain as well.

If this lasts until September, this will be good for McCain. The media will focus on attacking the 2 Democrats (as they have since Tuesday, and will show McCain as a great person).

[LeftCoast]

27. That makes sense

I don't necessarily agree with it, but I can see that as a possibility.

In my mind the continuing campaign just activates primary (and caucus) voters in states that have never had an opportunity to have a say before. For instance, this was the first time in my life that CA has actually been able to have a real say in the nominating process. I've seen historical evidence that seems to indicate that people who are activated and vote in the primary are far more likely to vote in the GE.

I think the other thing coloring my opinion is that I don't see either of our candidates as horribly flawed (particularly in comparison with McCain). I believe that for the repubs their choice was between the lesser of two evils, while our choice was between two candidates that most Dems find highly appealing.

[tekisui]

22. Rush is an idiot.

His call to arms didn't affect the out come. And when Hillary won his followers about shit themselves. They are scared of both our candidates.

[Kukesa]

33. Cross-over voting was evident in Ohio on Tuesday.

Link here for a story about Butler County, just south of Dayton:

http://tinyurl.com/25vmj8

[Apollo11]

10. Are Obama supporters whining about Reps being allowed to choose the Dem nominee?

Yeah, I noticed that too. Some of these people have no sense of shame! :eyes:

[my3boyz]

14. The Republicans that vote for Obama vote for him because

they think he is best for the country. The Republicans that vote for Hillary do so because they are scared to run against Barack. LOL

[LostinVA]

20. I hope you're not serious

:crazy:

[truebrit71]

67. That's exactly right.

..

[snooper2]

21. ding ding ding...

we have a winner....

[Kukesa]

28. That's exactly what happened in the Ohio precinct

where I worked as an election official.

Some cross-over voters were very vocal about their "strategy" and others were not. However, in this particular precinct, it was obvious, very obvious, what was going on.

[theHandpuppet]

42. Yep -- the hypocrisy is amazing

For weeks now I've been listening to the righteous inidgnation of Obama supporters who claimed the delegate system (including the superdelegates) was was so unfair and that the number of delegates a candidate receives should reflect the popular vote.

Of course, now there's Texas and all that railing against injustice just flew right out the window. Amazing, huh?

[OHdem10]

16. You are correct--It is irrational. This whole situation has been

irrational. The GOP has been influential in Obama Campaign.
He gets a lot of his votes there. The danger I see is ---How many
of these voters will go home to McCain in GE??

Schneider at CNN checked the Limbaugh vote for Hillary.
There are also GOPers who vote for Hillary. They fear a GOP
loss and truly believe Hilary would be a better president.They
jwant her to have a chance.

There is a difference in obama who is depending on GOP for votes
and Hillary who is not counting on them but a few come her way.

[Kokonoe]

19. Because we want to win in November.

:patriot:

[powergirl]

43. Thank you

Obama is our best hope to have a Democratic PRESIDENT. The Clinton supporters don't care about this and it is very upsetting to me. I support Obama on the basis of eligibility and getting those a-holes out of office.

[Cassandra]

24. It is very, very good when Republicans vote for...

either Democrat because they are sick of Republican corruption, incompetence and greed and want something better. It is very, very bad when they vote for either Democrat just to game the system and try to do a mindfuck.
There are also probably some Republicans who vote for the Democrat they would prefer as a second choice to McCain.

[mmonk]

25. Easy. There isn't a republican effort to get their voters to

vote for Obama.

[powergirl]

26. Republicans who vote for Obama, do so because they actually want Obama to win the presidency

They are disenchanted with the war and all things Bush. I live in a very conservative part of Texas and many of my Republican leaning friends really like Obama and a couple went to a rally with me.

Conversely, The Republicans who voted in Texas Democratic primary for Clinton, did so to ensure that Clinton could be the nominee. They believe, as does Rush "dumbass" Limbaugh, that the Republicans can easily beat Clinton b/c the Repubs dislike her so much. (Which isn't right and yes they are jerks - but these are facts) I am a precinct chair and on election day, many a Republican voter asked me (they thought I looked official b/c I was standing around my polling location with Obama swag) if they voted for Clinton in the Democratic primary, would they be able to vote for McCain in the general. I wouldn't answer their questions. But the Dallas morning news has reported that 8% of Clinton's vote in Texas came from ditto heads.

The Republicans are terrified of going against Obama. They will trash him from Florida to Washington state but they know they won't get the same traction as they would by smearing Clinton.

Obama needs to be the nominee so that we can have a Democratic president - not just a Democratic nominee that will make us all have to defend all of that B.S. from the nineties - AGAIN.

[Saturday]

30. I think you just proved the OP's point. nt

[tekisui]

32. No one knows the intentions of every puke voter.

But, they have not significantly influenced the outcome of ANY Democratic contest. Not for Obama. Not for Hillary.

[powergirl]

36. Republicans who vote for Obama, do so because they actually want Obama to be president

They vote for Clinton because they want her to lose. If that is what the OP said, then I guess we agree.

[RoadRage]

80. Appx. 30% of Republicans who voted democrat in the

Primaries & Caucuses prior to TX/OH voted for Clinton vs. the 70% who did so for Obama.

In TX/OH - that number jumped to 50% in each state that voted for Clinton. She automatically sees a HUGE JUMP in the number of republicans that are voting for her, the day after Rush Limbaugh begs his listeners to do so?

I would say that the problem isn't with the 30% who truly are voting for her because they like, like her stance on issues, etc. The problem is with the spike a day after a promenant republican radio host asks his voters to do so.

Is this Hillary's fault? NO, not at ALL! This is the "fault" of continuing shaddy republican politics.. the kind of politics many of us democrats dispise.

The problem is that Hillary certainly did not "reject or denounce" this pseudo-endorsement.. she quite simply could have said "I welcome any republican who wishes to vote for me based on their appreciation for my stance on the issues, but I reject any republican who is voting for me simply to further the right wing political agenda". Would it have done anything - probably not.. but again, it looks like she's happy to win anyway she can.

[krabigirl]

60. No, many of them just don't want Bill Clinton near the WH again.

[pkz]

35. effects vote count

in places where O wins the delegates and she wins the vote count, isn't it because the count includes crossover GOP votes just to get her on the ticket?

[BigDDem]

37. GOP votes for Hillary = "see, she's a republican!"

GOP votes for BO = terrific!

That's what I've learned from the flock

[mitchleary]

40. Repubs may not do this but

independents will surely be affected. I know a lot of people that would vote for Obama but NEVER vote for Hillary, EVER. And yes all the repubs that voted for her, will be voting Mccain in the fall. One thing about Repubs, they may b!tch about their candidate, but in the end they totally support them.

Seriously folks can you think the nominating the person Rush and Coulter "support" is a good thing?

You are all smarter than that.

[BigDDem]

41. and I know a lot of people that would vote for Hillary

but never for Obama, EVER

[mitchleary]

88. So you are saying Hillary

is not more polarizing than Obama? Has more people not like them? Will pull every redneck, Rush lover out tof the wood work to come out and vote against?

I mean neither of them were my first choice but...

[IsItJustMe]

44. Just a hunch, but the Republicans that vote for Obama will also vote for him in November. The

Republicans that are voting for HRC are doing it because of people like Rush and Rove and will never vote for a dem in November.

[goldcanyonaz]

48. Right, because Obama represents many core Republican beliefs, like anti-choice and big tax breaks

for the rich.

You can't be serious to think that these voters will vote for him in November.

[IsItJustMe]

49. Plenty of people are fed up with the status quo. And yes, even some Republicans are tired of it.

HRC and McCain are the status quo.

[goldcanyonaz]

And, Obama isn't the status quo? Oh please, this status quo memo is ridiculous.

Kerry and Kennedy, 2 of the biggest status quo Washington insiders there are.

[redqueen]

52. Both candidates are very similar. Clinton is not a populist reformer. (nt)

[libbygurl]

71. And O is?

Here's the 'new politics' as practised by O - smells awfully like 'old politics' to many.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4901539

=========

Posted by citizen_jane : "Obama and Me" *A Must Read*


"Obama and Me"
(It was the year 2000, and I was a young, hungry reporter in Chicago with a young, hungry state legislator on my speed dial)
By Todd Spivak

"It's not quite eight in the morning, and Barack Obama is on the phone screaming at me. He liked the story I wrote about him a couple weeks ago, but not this garbage.

Months earlier, a reporter friend told me she overheard Obama call me an asshole at a political fund-raiser. Now here he is blasting me from hundreds of miles away for a story that just went online but hasn't yet hit local newsstands.

It's the first time I've ever heard him yell, and I'm trembling as I set down the phone. I sit frozen at my desk for several minutes, stunned.

This is before Obama Girl, before the Secret Service detail, before he becomes a best-selling author. His book, Dreams From My Father, has been out of print for years."

MUCH MUCH MORE - http://dallasobserver.com/2008-02-28/news/obama-and-me

=========

[redqueen]

73. As I just said, they're very similar. Obama, however, is not DLC.

Which is one of the things that helped sway me to vote for him.

[libbygurl]

81. Obama the 'populist reformer'? Think again. Look at his donors, whom he denies having:

The Obama Bubble: Why Wall Street Needs a Presidential Brand

Wednesday, 05 March 2008

by Pam Martens

From Black Agenda Report

This article originally appeared in the print edition of Counterpunch.org.

====== begin excerpt ======

The number one industry supporting the Obama presidential bid, according to the widely respected, nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, is "lawyers/law firms" (most on Wall Street's payroll), giving a total of $11,246,596.

This presents three unique credibility problems for the yes-we-can, little-choo-choo-that-could campaign: (1) these are not just "lawyers/law firms"; the vast majority of these firms are also registered lobbyists at the Federal level; (2) Senator Obama has made it a core tenet of his campaign platform that the way he is gong to bring the country hope and change is not taking money from federal lobbyists; and (3) with the past seven ignoble years of lies and distortions fresh in the minds of voters, building a candidacy based on half-truths is not a sustainable strategy to secure the west wing from the right wing.

Yes, the other leading presidential candidates are taking money from lawyers/law firms/lobbyists, but Senator Obama is the only one rallying with the populist cry that he isn't. That makes it not only a legitimate but a necessary line of inquiry.

===== end excerpt =====

MUCH MORE at http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=548&Itemid=1

[redqueen]

90. Where did I say he was?

:wtf:

I said he's not DLC, and Hillary is.

[jeffrey_X]

64. He gave an answer and you didn't like it.

No need to bash Obama here because concerned people are looking to the left for answers.

Bitter much?

[goldcanyonaz]

86. I didn't bash Obama, and you read like the bitter one by making my post into something it ain't.

[democrattotheend]

50. I met a few who said they might when canvassing in Ohio

I met a few Republicans who were torn between Obama and McCain for both the primary and the general, but said they'd never vote for Clinton.

[redqueen]

54. I live in a very red area.

It's wild seeing conservatives finally finding their 'liberal' side and supporting him.

What's even wilder is talking to some, and hearing them admit they've always disagreed with their party on whatever issue... but were afraid to go against the conservative grain. It seems that somehow Obama's candidacy has given them the courage to step forward and stand up for themselves.

I heard this one lady talking about how she saw several of her neighbors at the precinct convention... people she was afraid to speak up in front of, about her disagreements with conservative ideology.

It's pretty fucking cool, to be honest.

[IsItJustMe]

58. I think deep down most people, regardless of party, know that politics has to change for the sake of

this country. I don't think McCain or HRC represents that change. Obama is talking the talk when it comes to that change. I believe he means it. His is a message of transformation.

[redqueen]

74. Same here... the two-party system has us arguing about abortion

and gay marriage... while they're looting the treasury and letting our infrastructure go to pot.

Um... hello?

[IsItJustMe]

76. I consider myself liberal, but beyond that, I believe that Obama has the right idea of bringing

people together to get things done. I mean, it's almost straight up common sense, isn't it? This country, I think in the next four years, is going to face some life changing circumstances. We need someone with Obama's wisdom to over see it.

[redqueen]

79. Yes, it's common sense.

And long overdue.

:hi:

[ProgressiveEconomist]

45. It's very very good when Rs come home to the Democratic Party in the FALL as well

as during the primaries.

IMO most Rs who cast TACTICAL votes for HRC in the primaries plan to vote for John McCain in the fall, whereas most Rs and independents who vote for Barack Obama in the primaries are SINCERE and plan to vote for Obama in the fall as well.

Should Obama somehow get the nomination stolen from him by Clinton Convention Rules Commitee chicanery, IMO the overwhelming majority of those Obama Rs and Is would stay home or vote for McCain.

Obama brings the country together, whereas Clinton polarizes the country into Red States and Blue States.

[YOY]

46. There seems to be a feeling that those who vote for Hillary are doing it tactically and

those who vote for Obama are being Republican versions of "Reagan Democrats".

I don't know how much this or the inverse of it is true. I DO know that Republicans have been conditioned to hate Bill and Hillary Clinton despite the fact that they did a better job of economic prosperity than the past 3 Republican presidents...using many of the Republican's promises and few of the tactics.

[eallen]

47. Are they voting for a candidate they will support in the general election?

We need a candidate who attracts some cross-party support in the general election. If some of that shows up in the primaries, it means that candidate has actually brought people over from the other party.

It is completely different when those in the other party purposely vote for a primary candidate because they think that candidate will be easier to defeat in the general election.

Big difference.

:hippie:

[redqueen]

51. The way I understand it is... people like Rush are encouraging listeners

to vote for Clinton... as far as I know, none of the knuckledraggers with megaphones crowd has been instructing their minions to vote for Obama... so if that's the case, then it's figured that the ones voting for Obama are doing so because they're tired of their own corrupt party, and like his "we won't give you shit for supporting republicans, so here's your free pass to switch over without feeilng as if you're admitting to defeat" sort of message... but the ones voting for Clinton are doing so because they know McCain's a lock and Rush said they should do it to mess with us, and because many on the right believe that Clinton on the ticket helps their party.

[Levgreee]

53. They vote for Obama because they want Obama elected.. they vote for Hillary because they want Mccain

this isn't universal among Repub voters for Hillary, but this is the issue of concern

[krabigirl]

61. are you sure about that? lol

[NorthernSpy]

55. Because the Republicans I know who like Obama prefer him to McCain...

They plan to vote for him in the GE.


Whereas the Limbaugh vote in Texas was an undisguised attempt to game the vote in hopes of prolonging our primaries, because the GOP thinks that doing that will put us in a weaker position. In other words, it wasn't actual "Reagan Democrat" -type crossover voting.

[OnionPatch]

56. This is such a no-brainer.

When you can figure out if they're cross-overs because they genuinely want the Dem candidate or they're cross-overs because they want to negatively influence the Dems race, then we can decide if it's good or bad. By the way, there is plenty of evidence that both situations are happening.

[apocalypsehow]

57. The OP knows this, but the OP doesn't care. Just more crap thrown against the wall, hoping it will

stick.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

66. Reminds me of when they use Barack's middle name.

Then they act all innocent-as-pie about it. "But, but, what's wrong with his middle name being Hussein?"

[jeffrey_X]

70. This is the correct answer

But most people will ignore it, because they can't comprehend it.

[krabigirl]

59. I don't get it myself.

[JimGinPA]

62. A Vote For Obama Is A Vote Against McSame - A Vote For HRC Is A Vote Against Obama

Not hard to figure out.

[SIMPLYB1980]

63. LMAO!

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

65. I think it depends on the reason. But of course you already knew that.

[libbygurl]

68. Ha, ha. Wow. Someone yesterday inadvertently highlighted this double standard in a comment...

...to my comment here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4895895&mesg_id=4910212

And so I called him/her on it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4895895&mesg_id=4918565

I've yet to get an answer to my question.

[libbygurl]

69. Simple rules: anything for O = good (including Repubs); anything for Clinton = bad.

And then everything makes sense here on DU.

[QC]

83. Yep--that's my suspicion, too. n/t

[Warbler]

72. Cancellation

The Texas Republicans who voted in the Texas primaries simply cancelled each other out.

[katty]

75. it's obvious, no logic - just plain bias

[amborin]

77. it's just the Obama supporters disconnect from reality and truth and fairness

whatever Obama does is good.....all evidence to the contrary is dismissed or twisted to support their dogmatic idee fixe

it's like the culture that believes in the oracle

everything is self-affirming

whatever happens, even if it contradicts the oracle's power, winds up reaffirming the oracles power in their eyes

[AntiFascist]

84. Sure, it's simple...

The fiscally conservative Republicans who oppose warmongering neocons are supporting Obama. It is the bonehead Repugs who listen to Rush Limbaugh that are supporting Hillary, and they only do it because they think it will help McCain in the GE because she will be easier to defeat - the threat of having the Clintons in the White House will unite and energize conservatives in supporting McCain.

[krkaufman]

87. Well, it's all moot if the exit polls don't provide data...

... on *WHY* a given Republican voted for one candidate or the other. Otherwise, it's just anecdotal conjecture and hearsay.

Those qualifiers stated...

Republicans have been voting for Obama from the beginning, even when the Republican primary race was still hotly contested and undecided. Those "good" Republicans were voting for Obama because they're disaffected with the Republican Party, this year, and see Obama as someone they could vote for in December.

This most recent primary Tuesday, the Republican race had been decided and Right Wing radio was abuzz with instructions to flood the Democratic primaries and vote for Hillary Clinton, in order to extend the Democratic primary fight and "bloody up Obama." Those "bad" Republicans were voting for Clinton because they actually support John McCain.