The only fair solution for FL/MI is a redo

[gravity]

Either they redo the primaries following the DNC rules, or they should not be counted. It is pretty damn simple.

Changing the rules halfway into the race because it gives one candidate an advantage is not fair.

[Fox Mulder]

1. I totally agree.

Redo and have it closed.

[0007]

34. A rodeo will be the ultimate

[whistle]

2. Yes, good compromise

[Captain Hilts]

3. A 're-do' is not fair to FL primary voters, who came out in record numbers for Dems. nt

[Jersey Devil]

5. What about the voters who didn't vote because they knew their votes would not be counted?

It's not that simple

[Captain Hilts]

7. The circumstances affect everyone the same. All voters. All candidates. nt

[gravity]

13. The circumstance is that it benefited Hillary

On top of other issues, Hillary had the advantage with name recognition and none of the other candidates could campaign to establish themselves in that state.

It wasn't fair.

[JorgeTheGood]

15. so ... no one in FL ever heard of Obama ? n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

24. HUH?....they did too...Obama ran TV ads in FL and even held a Press conference on the Sunday before

the election....he broke the rules!

[mkultra]

30. more lies from a hillary supporter

They where both in Florida for fundraisers. Barrack stopped on the way to his car and answered a coupld of questions. Then the hillary lie machine tried to claim that was a press conference.


You know when the HRC people are lying because there keyboards are being used.

[yourguide]

32. ROFL

the ads were part of a small NATIONAL run of advertising approved by the DNC ahead of time, yes part of the 50 state strategy and unline the "ignore 40 state" strategy that the HRC campaign has employed.

[yourguide]

31. FACT: Mason Dixon poll taken of a small sampling of Dem FL voters showed in...

Nov 2007 showed

Name Recognition:

HRC: 100%
Obama: 98%

Based on 1750000 turnout, that 2% equates into 35000 voter advantage for Clinton out of the gate. That's an automatic 51% to 49% in FAVOR of HRC out of the gate.

Second fact:

28% (490,000 voters) had a neutral or no opinion of Obama
15% (262,000 voters) had a neutral or no opinion of HRC

So based on these numbers a minimum of 28% of the electorate was undecided and could sway, a maximum of 43% of the voters were undecided and could go either way.

THAT IS WHY CANDIATES GO OUT AND CAMPAIGN! If campaigning and advertising was not important in swaying voters then they would stay in washington.

Sorry people, based on these numbers alone I would suggest it was not a level playing field to begin with so again they candidates SHOULD be afforded the opportunity to appeal to the voters.


http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:X1Y2HtIjSVEJ:www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2007-11/33818342.pdf+mason+dixon+flordia+name+recognition+hillary+clinton&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

[hedgehog]

9. And it is so impossible for them to come out again in teh ice and snow and

oh, wait.

[DJ13]

10. FL primary voters, who came out in record numbers

That wasnt to support the Dem candidates (and you and Hillary and Crist know this), it was due to the property tax ammendment on the ballot.

[JorgeTheGood]

16. correct -- IIRC -- 1.7 million voted ... n/t

[Ganja Ninja]

26. That was not a fair primary whatever the turnout.

You can't tell voters their votes won't count then hold an election and call it "fair". You can't tell the candidates that a primary election won't count, ban them from campaigning and then hold an election and call it "fair".

[kentuck]

4. That means the DNC will have to spend about 35 million on them...

and will not have that money for the fall election.

[Ganja Ninja]

19. And it's totally their fault too.

They had no business handing out punishments to the loyal Democrats of FL and MI. The GOP didn't disenfranchise their party members.

[tularetom]

6. Actually the only "fair" way would have been if FL and MI had followed

the rules of which they were aware instead of trying to play chicken with the DNC on the primary dates. They fucked up and they know it. Nobody owes them shit.

A mulligan on these primaries is not "Fair" it is an attempt by the DNC to try to placate the Clinton people without totally giving into them.

Practical politics, maybe. But not fair.

[joshcryer]

12. Ugh, stop looking at the past and discuss solutions, at least that's what the OP is doing.

And Dean has come out with this stance, too. So I don't know why people insist on parroting this tired meme. I've said from the beginning FL and MI will count one way or another.

[tularetom]

20. I didn't contribute to the DNC

to have them spend my money on a do over election for people who were too stupid or too selfish to follow the rules. They knew the consequences when they scheduled those primaries. Screw 'em let them sit outside and think about how they could have done the right thing.

I like Dean he's probably the best thing to happen to the Democratic party in the past 10 years but he's in the wrong for letting these people win their little game of chicken.

[olkaz]

23. You must at least acknowledge that rules were broken.

And when rules are broken, there are penalties.

When there are no penalties to breaking the rules, nobody follows the rules.

I agree with you and the op that something needs to happen, but don't gloss over it too much.

[gravity]

27. I think that use missed the point of the OP

All I am saying IF you are going to count the FL/MI delegates, you can only make it eligible with a redo.

Whether they should be penalized or not is a different issue.

[Jersey Devil]

8. What about crossovers

1 - Fla (and or Mich, not sure which, or it it is both) has a closed primary but as long as anyone changes their registration 30 days before the election they can switch. With no Republican primary at the same time, Republicans could switch 30 days before the Democratic primary and decide who the Democratic winner will be. They would not do that in large numbers if there was a Republican primary at the same time.

[zonkers]

11. No. Breaking rules must have consequences. If not, this will happen again.

[gravity]

18. I think they learned their lesson

All I am saying is that if you want to make Florida or Michigan count, you have to do a redo. There is no other way of doing it.

[zonkers]

25. Learn their lesson? How? And now a redo would reward with a dream scenario

in which their primary is mor impacting than ever. Not acceptable. If FL Dems wasted more energy fighting for disenfranchised FL voters instead of this crap, I'd be happy.

[Ganja Ninja]

14. As a Florida resident I totally agree.

One thing for sure is you can't use the results from the Florida and Michigan primaries. It would be better not seating FL and MI delegates than to use the results of those tainted primaries.

[alphafemale]

17. Well. Mich can't stand AS/IS. Obama wasn't even on the ballot.

But the earlier and earlier primary game is ridiculous and should be stopped.

This will only lead to chaos of primaries starting a year/18mos/or more before the general election.

[blocker]

21. What if Obama wins florida or michigan

all hell are gonna break loose in the clinton camp...lol

[gravity]

22. Then they won't count

[housewolf]

28. What about the FL Snowbirds?

Those folks who were in FL in February but who are heading home now (or soon)? How will they handle those voters?

Or conversely, those snowbirds who voted in FL or other southern snowbird-havens in February and are now home in Michigan?

[ronnykmarshall]

29. 100% with ya on this.

[Greyskye]

33. Who pays for the redo?

Somebody has to - they don't come for free. :shrug: