Clinton's "baggage."

[question everything]

Before his sick brain - literally - killed him, Lee Atwater was ready to smear Bill Clinton before he even announced his candidacy.

Once they started campaigning, Hillary rubbed people the wrong way for "not staying home baking cookies" for being smart and intelligent and for Bill's "two for the price of one."

Then she dared taking over a complex issue of health care, not realizing that decisions in Washington are not made based on what is good for the country but on back room deals and promoting each one's career and generous retirement.

That took care of the men in this country.

Then came the women who thought that she should have divorced Bill when he passed the welfare reform bill and, of course, after Monica.

(Isn't it interesting how people, mostly divorced, often think that they know better what is good for other married people).

She was attacked for carpetbagging her Senate seat, yet was re-elected with a comfortable margin and generally is respected by her colleagues in the Senate and by the military personnel who have interacted with her while she served in the Armed Services Committee.

Her life has been an open book. She has been analyzed and dissected, reviled and praised from all angles and by people from different sources.

Thus, to claim that we, who support Hillary are "bots" who "drink the kool-aid" who use "talking points" is laughable.

To support Hillary is to be well aware of all her faults and mistakes and to still admire her for her intelligence, her knowledge, her understanding of complicated issues and her willingness to tackle them, and, yes, her strong character of facing all these smear campaigns since 1992 and to continue going, knowing her own worth, not letting others defining her.

I don't know how many here in DU and in the country could have survived such ungrateful attacks and still persevere. I know that I would not.

[TwilightGardener]

1. The Clinton Martyrites are out today, making a case for their girl being

burned at the stake by anyone who thinks she's not that great.

[nomorewhopper]

4. there is nothing that anybody could possibly say to change my opinion about HRC at this point

her campaign has been a despicable disaster and i am ashamed to share my gender and party with her

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

7. Hillary is an embarassment, but I don't see why women, in general, should be ashamed . . .

Lieberman didn't make me ashamed to be a man, he just made me SICK, which is what Hillary is doing. She's jumped the shark so many time I lost count, but that does not reflect badly on all women, just her.

[question everything]

11. That's your prerogative

I just don't want you to call me "bot" because sticking by Clinton demands a lot more brain power and understanding the issues than just "being inspired" by Obama's charisma.

[nomorewhopper]

17. hillary leads with uneducated, and racists

race was the top factor of 20% of ohio voters

and she continues to lead among people without college degrees

i'm sure you'll continue to "tax those brain cells" of yours by repeating the whole "there is more to politics than being inspired" nonsense

[question everything]

30. What a bigoted viewpoint

Those "uneducated" voters have been the bread and butter of the Democratic party. Certainly they were the ones that Edwards was counting on.

If you want to attract the over $100K earners and the wine, not beer drinkers, go to the Republican party. This is where all the greed and the exploitation exist.

All the "Obama girls" interviewed said that they vote for Obama because he is hot. There was never a word about health care - which, by the way, has the main issue of the Clinton voters in Ohio and in Texas. Oh, and Oprah tell them so.

Your brain cells, on the other hand...

[TwilightGardener]

20. Sticking by Clinton demands cognitive dissonance, self-delusion,

cult worship, and a very, very high tolerance for bullshit and duplicity.

[texastoast]

14. Are you going to vote for McCain if she is the nominee? n/t

[surfin]

25. Dem women need to stand up and pick a women governor

who is not so negative. People hate Hillary. Why we pick people who are so hated is strange. I think the primaries have shown that the 50% who hate her is not just the general population but in the press and dem party. Hillary, go back to the congress and pass health care and have an accomplishement and work on your negatives and maybe you can run in 2016.

[lmbradford]

27. I'm a feminist....

and I can't stand her. My moral compass is bigger than my female parts combined.

[nomorewhopper]

29. bravo

well put

:D

[question everything]

31. Why? Can you put it more specific than just "can't stand her?"

What has she ever done to you? Stayed with Bill?

When Republicans selected Reagan and Bush II - both amiable guys - we looked down on them, said that we select our nominees based on their qualifications, their track record, their platform, their... brain.

But, it appears, that in 2008 we have become the mirror image of the Republican party with its shallow approach, black and white "Me Tarzan You Jane" look at life.

[lmbradford]

38. mostly it is her tactics

I don't understand all of the "behind closed doors" arm twisting that she does. I don't agree with the things she has said about the dems in small red states and their votes not mattering. I don't agree with the four or five "faces" of her campaign and the way she can turn on a dime. I want reality and truth. I don't want another republican styled politician representing me. I want someone with my values who stays above it as much as possible. We are not suppose to be like republicans just because it might work to "scare" up more votes. I don't call that fighting, I call it bad behavior. I am of the opinion that she absolutely will do anything to win and I, for one, don't find that an admirable trait nor do I find it an attribute to being a good president. I feel sick in my stomach that she is the choice for the first woman to become president, because I am a feminist and wanted to be in line to vote for the first woman president but the choice is so bad that I cannot and will not do it. Morals.......helluva thing that.

[surfin]

18. Interesting was not mention

She attacked Rick Lazio for not releasing his tax returns. What a hypocrite.

Do you ever notice this. The other night we were watching her and at the end she really kissed Chelsea but Bill came up and they just touch cheeks, no kiss. Someone mention that this always happens and you never see them kiss like other couples (remember the Gore's kiss). I have never seen them kiss.

[question everything]

33. You started so well

with specific point that is worth mentioning and ended up... analyzing how they kiss?

Is this the most important issue about her campaign? Together with her hair, her makeup, her cleavage and her pant suits?

[tabatha]

2. Unfortunately they have left a mark.

She now uses the same tactics.
I would have admired her if she had shown she was above that.

[DURHAM D]

3. "baggae" ???

I believe that must be French for drivel or piffle?

[SeaLyons]

5. Good Post

She is an incredible person, and she will make it through this storm too!!!

Hillary for President

[NC_Nurse]

6. Anyone without a massive ego and power-hunger would have wised up

a long time ago. Now she's just like her tormenters, must be Stockholm Syndrome.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. Shorter question everything: Support Hillary because she's been picked on.

[cbayer]

9. Wow, six negative responses in 10 minutes.

That says a lot about who is hanging around DU.

I thought your piece was positive and note it's lack of attacking anyone.

[question everything]

12. Thank you. And, again, not a word about the issues

only about how they hate her..

[KittyWampus]

15. Bill lobbying for Dubai to get their Port Dea is certainly an issue.

[surfin]

21. People who come on here must defend what they post

I thought that is what it is about. I am for Obama and if I stated untruth, you all should attack me and I would not cry and would answer.

You seem to be a strong Hillary supporter, will you answer this for me? Is she a hypocrite for attacking Rick Lazio for not releasing his tax returns when he ran against her and not releasing her tax return for us dems but will later for the repubs and her buddy McClain?

Is she a hypocrite? Or are they picking on her again.

[cbayer]

26. I support both candidates.

I also defend both candidates and their supporters when I feel they are being unfairly attacked
I see much more value in pointing out their strengths than pouncing on their weaknesses.

And the OP was pointing their candidate's strengths.

[BenDavid]

10. all this crap about hrc should get out of the race and become

the vp on the so called "dream ticket" is about as sexist as one can be.....Why should the woman be regulated to second place? Hell, it is the women that have all been told to become second class citizens when it about the number 1 position in a company or organization.

I suspect HRC is staying in this race to show "WOMEN" that if you want something bad enough you will fight till the end to get it. That is not a bad thing to do, but so many obamabots will say it is all about her and to hell with anyone else....

I say as supporter of HRC stay until the last dog dies, and do not listen to those male assholes that tell you that you should just accept the vp spot and drop out...No! HRC you stay...

[surfin]

22. Obama should never pick her but not because she is a women

she is just too negative. I think we have found out that her 50% negative ratings is not only in the general populations but in the press and dem party. Half the people cannot stand her and want the bush/clinton goverment stopped.

We could have pick well qualifed and less negative women to run for president but many wanted a very negative person with no accomplishements. This country will vote for a women and I will but never negative full of self Hillary.

Her own senior staff could not answer the other day in a press conference an accomplishment she had done. That tells you all. If you had the senior staff of some of the great women dem governors, they could. We are lucky the repubs did not run a governor against her.

[question everything]

34. I agree that they should not be on one ticket

Either will have to select a military/security person. For Clinton, it would be Wes Clark, for Obama, some suggested Webb.

[lmbradford]

28. um..

because she is in second place.....I'm a woman I think that second would be much to good a position for THIS woman. BTW, I am a huge feminist but can't vote for her......

[KittyWampus]

13. Clintons haven't been vetted since the WH. Bill's using his WH days to make huge $ lobbying

for foreign governements like Dubai and their Port Deal.

[surfin]

19. Remember her Ken Starr type attack on Rick Lazio for not

releasing his tax returns. What a hypocrite and no hillary supporters answer this one.

[question everything]

35. She won a her senate seat twice. You don't call this vetted?

Bill is not running, she is. Either way, if this is a topic of debate, by all means bring it up.

The fact that the boys from Newsweek and MSNBC have not brought it up makes me wonder that perhaps it is not a red meat for them. They would be the first to throw as much mud on her as they can.

[olkaz]

16. That's some interesting logic.

"Thus, to claim that we, who support Hillary are "bots" who "drink the kool-aid" who use "talking points" is laughable."

Premise: Hillary has had it rough, fellas.
Conclusion: We aren't bots and koolaid drinkers with talking points, jeez!

Just because somebody has been through hell doesn't make them a good candidate for president.

If that **was** true, I'd be voting for McCain. He's been ACTUALLY TORTURED.

[question everything]

36. Sigh. I wish that people will read what is said, not what they think was said

There have been so many attacks on her that the easies way would be to think that "well, there must be something there.." or "no smoke without fire.." etc.

But that we do stick by her means that we have done our homework, found the truth through all the mud and the gutter and decided that she is our candidate.

Perhaps very few DUers have done it in the past: stick by someone who is being attacked because they know this person. Perhaps most DUers do follow the crowd of popularity. Laugh and kick the ones who is already down and follow the "Homecoming Queen and King."

Perhaps trying to explain this way of thinking is too much of a nuance for most DUers who, like Republicans, it seems, start to see the world in black and white "Me Tarzan You Jane."

And to think how often I have used this line to put down Republicans on other message boards.

[Autumn]

23. Very nice post

I am not a "bot" who "drinks the kool-aid" and who uses "talking points" I have a lot of respect and admiration for Hillary. Hillary is my first choice and will remain my first choice. I haven't always agreed with her on some things,but I do on most of them. She is one hell of a woman and I know I couldn't survive what they have put her through.I also respect Senator Obama and will happily vote for him should he win the nomination,

[question everything]

37. Thank you for understanding the post

It appears that most of the Obama supporters and the self-described feminists who "can't stand her" have no idea what the post was about.

She was not my first choice; I suppose I, too, was led to believe the vile comments about how the Republicans would love to run against her. But then I started watching the debates and was impressed by her performance, her direct and concise replies to questions while the men get away with evading direct replies, with just wink and a nod.

[mmonk]

24. The Clintons may have been attacked before but they

are not victims. They can be a rough crowd that intends to get their way.

[Medusa]

32. She doesn't have baggage, she's got an entire FLEET

of 18-wheelers filled to the brim with her "baggage". :eyes: