A messy desk makes Obama unfit for greatness! Case in point...

[Bongo Prophet]

This guy is obviously NEVER going to get ANYTHING done!

[MagickMuffin]

1. Hell, that looks a lot like my desk

Although I wish I had that many monitors.:evilgrin:

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

6. The frog on the wall is neet too

:silly:







Yea, those p0rn monitors are nice! :smoke:

[stellanoir]

2. Looks as though he's hired my imaginary secretary.

[juajen]

3. You've got to admit, it would be problematic if Gore had won

and couldn't find the "Red Phone". Likewise for Obama. Being well organized, I believe, is a good characteristic for a chief executive. But, one that could be overcome. However, what I see as a bigger problem, is that Obama doesn't seem to organzie his thoughts easily either. At least I have seen several times that he could gather his thoughts and process them fast enough to beat Hillary at campaigning. Just sayin'. It has been noticeable to me.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

5. This chief executive has a spotless desk.

[roguevalley]

25. he puts his crayons away for photo shoots.

[Bongo Prophet]

29. and his mirror. ahem...

nice we can all agree that Bush is a dick.

Unity! Yea! ;)

[roguevalley]

35. agreed. :-D

[Cant trust em]

8. organization is what secretaries are for

Let them worry about filing the papers.

I do agree, however, that Obama needs to get his answers at debates out faster. I don't doubt the intelligence of the man, he just spends too much time picking the perfect words. I do the same thing. Looking for the right phrasing and it breaks up the continuity of my speech.

[Bongo Prophet]

11. I was just trying to lighten it up a bit, Juajen.

I like your "can't find that damn red phone!" idea, very funny!

Will leave the debate about qualities of each candidate aside, because GDP is bad for thoughtful discussion.
If we were in the same room, just talking, we could go over pros and cons of each, and probably agree on much. When we disagreed, it would be a friendly disagreement.

(IOW- I am tired of all the aggressive bashing in general, so this is not aimed at you at all ;))

[MagickMuffin]

33. Where's the Damn RED Phone in post #4 and #5's pictures?.?.?

:shrug:

I've looked everywhere on those two desks and I can't see one.

[FrenchieCat]

4. But what about this "clean" desk

:shrug:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. That's another good one. See my pic in #5.

Cleanliness is next to Fascism-ness.

[FrenchieCat]

19. My desk is messy as well. Thank God!

So it looks like Obama was being political when he said that his desk was messy....as this appears to be a good thing!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

21. I agree, I think it appeals to a lot of people.

IMO, the neatniks and Martha Stewarts have been running things for far too long.

[MagickMuffin]

32. And where is that Damn RED phone?.?.?

:rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl:

Good find FrenchieCat

[AtomicKitten]

9. That Al Gore is such an underachiever.

;)

Great post!

I always thought a Gore/Obama ticket would have been formidable. Sigh.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. What A Horribly Misguided Analogy. n/t

[Bongo Prophet]

14. A compliment coming from you, OMC.

Or as you might put it:

It's JUST A FUCKING JOKE!! I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU PEOPLE!!!

!!!!!:rofl:!!!:rofl:!!!:rofl:!!!:rofl:!!!:rofl:!!!:rofl:!!!

Let's fight!! Grrr...
Or something like that.


Just a quick fun moment, dude.
Lighten up.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. You Were Being Humorous About It, But There Was Still A Real Point You Were Trying To Make.

It was a flawed one, that's all.

But I did enjoy the humor of it!

(and I also enjoy threads about Al Gore, so bonus points for that)

[Bongo Prophet]

18. I just happened to have this great pic, and it made me think of the cluttered desk comment

I would have done it if it were Hillary or Edwards or what have you.

Not really trying to make an equivalence that messy desk equals good or bad.
Probably SOME with messy desks would be good, some bad - and same with neat desk, or even a paperless office (as long as they make backups!!)


Eh, just had a pic, and thought a light moment could ease some people's day.
It's is sleeting here, and this is the first time I have NOT had a headache in 2.5 days, so I am loving that.
Primacaucus hangover!

hope you're doing well in your part of the real world, too.
Cheers!

Edit to add - I almost asked what point I was trying to make, but then you would tell me what I was thinking and want to argue about it!
That would be too bizarre, but kinda funny in a GDP way!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. Well, It Is A Great Pic.

But in the context of GDP, it would've seemed that you were trying to make a lighthearted but serious reference to Obama's comment that he's disorganized and loses papers handed to him in minutes flat. Your OP title suggests the same. Not sure why you're being so disingenuous in playing dumb.

But not really a big deal anyway! :hi:

[Bongo Prophet]

24. I think our personalities just clash, OMC. Not disingenuous, just not one to fight much.

I know you like to argue back and forth with people, and "win" and even brag about how bravely you swing your mighty sword.
Also the "theme song" post - that's how you see GDP - and I can see how there is truth in that. Many here ARE assholes.

But I see GDP as general discussion: politics, and am willing to discuss.
Sometimes that means seeing multiple points of view as valid, or some disagreements as far less important than larger issues - and trying to remember the humanity behind the posters themselves.

It's like multi-modal intelligence -- different people process information differently, and understanding this is key to being able to communicate with those of other modes of processing. I am a synthesis thinker, and so can hold even conflicting opinions in my head, while adding new evidence as I go, rather than having a hard and fast point of view. as a result, I am more interested in learning others' perspectives, and less interested in fencing with them.

You seem to be more dialectic, and maybe you hone your ideas by conflict and intellect. Others are nurturers, some are physical, etc.
These are all valid, and I enjoy your sharp intellect and, especially, your wit. (I like sharp wit and satire, a la Bill Hicks, or Gore Vidal, for example) -- there are many who I have never met on DU and elsewhere that have made the dark Bush years more laughter filled and insightful.

But, I think what you see as me "playing dumb" as if I were "playing" the same game as you is not correct. More that we have different "games" and mine is not conflict based as much as comparison based. Often, it is just more data points to broaden my view, and I puse to ponder, rather than jump to argue.

You are right, this is no big deal. But I do think different modes of thinking explains much of what we see in social media communication.
We are an example of that difference, in my opinion.

I can almost be certain you will disagree with me on that!
Would that not be the greatest irony?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

30. Whole Lotta Words About Not Much, Really. Do You Like To Hear Yourself Talk Or Something?

This is the relevant statement to me:

"I almost asked what point I was trying to make, but then you would tell me what I was thinking and want to argue about it!"

Could you be any more disingenuous? Just because you say you post in this way or that way does not make it so, no matter how many words you try and use to say so. You were fully aware of the analogy you were using since you even referenced it in your OP title. My initial reply was that regardless of using lighthearted humor to make your point, that your analogy was flawed. Having a messy desk as a non president is hardly the same as admitting you are completely disorganized and lose papers handed to you within minutes, if you WERE president. Now I did appreciate your humor and picture, but the analogy behind it was in fact flawed. Not the end of the world, but that just was a leap in the analogy you used.

But I also sit here in awe of your own hypocrisy and empty sincerity. You claim willingness to discuss, yet all you did was patronize and act in a condescending manner. Not really all that conducive to discussion, and it is pretty easy to see through your politely worded tripe. If you post an OP while being open to discussion about it, then if someone points out that there is an inherent flaw in the analogy, one would think you'd reply back with a mindset of discussion, inquiring as to why the analogy was flawed etc, or trying to actually understand the other person's viewpoint as you so disingenuously suggested. Instead, you responded back like a fool. So please, just because you can respond with this silly armchair psychology pleasantly worded tripe, doesn't make your intent at confrontation and disingenuousness any less apparent.

So feel free to respond back now with some other "what me? I'm innocent! I'm just being nice and pure and blah blah blah. You're just being confrontational and argumentative like always OMC blah blah blah, oh the irony blah blah I knew you'd disagree snarf snarf I was just being nice and innocent and looking for discussion and joking and you're just a big meanie I swear blah blah blah" crap, since I'm intelligent enough to see right through such empty words, since your intentions clearly shine through in your passive aggression. But have fun thinking yourself superior! :hi:

[Bongo Prophet]

36. Okay. Now I am a liar, hypocrite, tripe spreader, empty and condescending. Cool.

So, since you want to say my analogy is flawed - maybe it is.

I thought of a title on the fly, and thought it a decent set up for the pic. A light joke, not worthy of defense or debate, really.

I do not think a messy desk means one is necessarily great, or al gore, or even better than a neat desk. I wish my own desk were neater than it is.

I don't know if Al would have a neater desk as president - probably so, if only for appearances sake.
does this pic make me think he is better or worse? Not really, though it does show a human side, which is nice. I find him likeable.
Always have, since his days as in Congress.

Your point is stated that my analogy is as follows:
"Having a messy desk as a non president is the same as admitting you are completely disorganized and lose papers handed to you within minutes, if you WERE president."

I did not even know that was my analogy. If it was, then I agree with you that they are NOT the same.

If I were to analyze my own analogy, I would state it as:
Some made the point that Obama's disorganized statement was indicative of unfitness to lead. Here is a pic of Al, who has a messy office. Is it ironic, or does it show that you could be somewhat disorganized and still be a pretty capable guy? Probably.

But mostly, it was a way to show a cool pic, and make a little joke.
Heck, I thought we were making progress, but your aggressive response indicates that you are only interested in your point of view, and want to define me and insult me. Fine. Personality differences are sometimes hard to get over.

But if I was trying to make the point you said I was, then YOU ARE RIGHT. YOU WIN.

If I was trying to make the point that I think I may have, upon reflection: It was really more a point of discussion, rather than a challenge. "Does having a messy office indicate an inability to be president? Check out this pic of Al! Discuss the implications."

No wonder I have so few arguments in real life. They interest me less than listening, but even then, they make me think and ponder more than try to focus on beating my "opponent"...maybe I am just an undisciplined and slow thinker.

That is also probably why it takes a lot of words of express myself.
I have a messy mind!

Another irony - I thought this would be a thread that some would find funny, and not too controversial.
That shows my naivety, I think.
Forget it Jake, it's GDP!

[Political Heretic]

31. What an enjoyable bit of intellectual stimulaton. I think you and I would get on well.

Interestingly enough, while I find myself at sharp odds with OMC often (and no personal offense intended) and feel as though I tend to process information a bit more like you, after further thought I would have to say that I am a dialectic thinker as well, in the truest Hegelian sense: thesis, antithesis, synthesis (becoming a new thesis to continue the cycle.)

(Note that I am now not making any comparisons between myself and anyone else)

One of the things that nuances how I process information are some very specific experiences I've had. First, I have a BA in philosophy, and that experience alone can affect how you process information! But more significant I think was my post-undergrad work experience, where I happened to with an organization and actually trained in critical thinking. Critical thinking was actually considered a lynch-pin component of our productivity. That work experience forced me to actively study critical thinking principles and learn them for six years. A major emphasis of my focus was on cognitive biases, and the ways that self-interest, dogma, or prejudice often hinder our ability to accept truths.

Out of this long long process of school and work, I have become a person who's single greatest interest is the pursuit of factual information, even if the truth hurts and it isn't what I want it to be.

So if Obama screws up for example, I don't frantically look for anyway to spin the issue to his benefit. I take an inventory of my personal biases (we all have them) and I attempt to review the information myself. That's why I'm remain critical of the Obama adviser meeting with the Canadians even while so many other Obama people are claiming he was totally vindicated. The first thing I did when I heard about the story, was make a post to Clinton supporters asking for help in finding the memo so I could read it for MYSELF.

This doesn't mean that I am always fair - its just a difference in aims. My goals here in General Discussion: Primaries are different that a lot of other people's. My goal is analysis of information, research towards factual data, fair-minded criticisms and praises of candidates (thus, Clinton is not satan and Obama is not the messiah) and overall - political analysis for both candidates (living out the part of me that would love to be a professional political operative.)

Of course, there's NO WAY everyone is going to agree that I am "fair minded." Some people's own biases preclude the possibility. And in other cases, someone's experience with me is only in some instance where I am guilty of bias, emotion, stupidity, etc. It happens. :)

But my goals remain the same.

I don't always "mesh" well with people who come to GD: P for more "dogmatic" reasons.

Anyway... a jumble of thoughts caused by your post. Very well said by the way.
Cheers

[Bongo Prophet]

37. Thanks for being thoughtful and non-combative, PH.

I am not really cut out for the GDP as it is right now, and spent far too much time asking folks to stop with the name calling and all. I see now how fruitless it is, but miss having place for discussing the primary race. I have already typed too much - RSI wrists - but want to respond.
It is my admitted weakness that it takes me 100 words that a better writer could do in 20. Alas.

You have a point about "dialectic" thinking, in the Hegelian sense - if viewed as a process, there is no difference between synthesis and dialectic, as synthesis is one step in that revolving spiral. I probably should have used dualistic, and therefore denoting both dualism and implying a homonym-based double entrendre - "wanting to duel" -- again, too slow minded to do so.

I think it is just being somewhat shy and reflective, with a deep sense of fairness to differing points of view - and an even deeper sense that I have FAR more to learn than to teach. Most of the things I find interesting enough to ponder don't have clear right/wrong answers, like comparative religion, ontology, cognitive sciences, musical synthesis and composition, and other arts. That drifts over into my discussions on politics, where debate and counterpoint (non-musical, usually!) are the norm. I do like hearing different points of view, and use these to forge my own - indeed, they are weighed against my more set ideas (haughtily called "principles") - and eventually these are incorporated, though hopefully always open to review in light of new data.

Over time, I have found that since I suspend absolute judgment on many things, this puts me at a disadvantage if my goals were to quickly smash an argument. Usually, I just pause and think about it, and think (or type or say)"You have made some good points. I will consider that."

Then let it gel.
One could take that as passive aggressive behavior, if the game is to have a tit for tat debate. But really, is that a discussion? I talk with friends, and we agree or not, but we never really argue in an aggressive way - just share opposing or complementary viewpoints. At least with "soft" topics of opinion - not "hard" factual things. For that, we can look it up, stipulate to it, and move on. ;)

Your comment on Devils and messiahs hits home as well - manichaen dualisms abound here - and the accusations that "You think your guy is god" are a strange projection, indeed!

I like your methodology of information processing, and agree, we could have some great and rambling conversations. I would be enriched greatly by those. (I live in north texas, so actual "realworld" conversation is unlikely.) Good thing that Al kept pushing for DARPANET to go public, and here we are!

Cheers!:hi:


Edit to change homily to homonym. WTF was I thinking?

[Political Heretic]

39. You list many topics that I also enjoy discussing

We should stay in touch around here. Feel free to PM me if you ever get a subject stuck in your mind. :)

[Bongo Prophet]

41. I will do that, PH. I hope you stick around here through the election and beyond

I see you've been here a short time - GDP used to be GD-politics, and was not such a stupid bloodbath. One could actually talk about stuff. What a concept!

I am also starting a smaller project that you might be interested in, that needs smart minds with good attitude to refine ideas... Will PM you with details...

[redqueen]

12. Hehehe...

I love my cluttered desk. :)

[InvisibleTouch]

13. A cluttered desk is the sign of a creative intellect.

Or so I tell myself when I look around my own office. :)

[Arkansas Granny]

15. I use that one myself.

[nomorewhopper]

17. al's triple monitor is pretty freaking sweet

i wonder if he's rocking an "ultimate gaming rig", and whether he's got WoW in the backrgound

[Bongo Prophet]

22. Yeah, he hid that for the photographer!

That is one nice setup, fo sho.

I like my 17" powerbook, and my 24" dell, but this is unreal.
Gear fetish, oy.

Screen real estate is a good thing!
But it uses carbon to run them, bad!
But his powerpoints are good!
Global warming bad!
My candidate good, yours bad! Unless we have same candidate, then good! ;)

Have a nice, one NMW - welcome to DU- you may have been here awhile, not sure.
Not familiar with ya, so belated hello - took me over a year to get to 500 posts.

[TexasBushwhacker]

23. Contrary to what neatnicks would like us to think

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/Careers/04/30/cb.mess/index.html

"Yes, according to "A Perfect Mess," the book by Eric Abrahamson and David H. Freedman, which claims to reveal the hidden benefits of being unorganized and cluttered.

In the book, the authors claim a messy desk can be the product of an effective worker and that there actually is a price for being neat in terms of staff, time and computer system costs.

"Neatness and organization can exact a high price and it's widely unaccounted for," they argue, and these costs typically outweigh their advantages."

[Muttocracy]

28. I recently cleaned up a bunch of desk clutter

and it turned out a lot of it could go straight into the recycling bin as it was no longer relevant. So I would have wasted time filing! :)

[Bright Eyes]

26. Work, Al, Work!

[DrFunkenstein]

27. How Many Trees Were Killed?

With all that paper Gore is using, we should completely reject all of the things he says about global warming.

Ps - Gore seems completely oblivious to the giant ninja frog that snuck into his office.

[Bongo Prophet]

34. That is his "protector frog"-- so back off!

;)

[book_worm]

38. They say that Lincoln had a disorganized desk and his filing cabinet was his stovepipe hat.

[Bongo Prophet]

40. Like Marge simpson's hair! Today, a stovepipe hat could hold about 600 DVDs

That's a lot of data in a hat.

And here comes blue-ray!