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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:32 PM
Original message
Obama #1 in Donations from Military Members
Obama Leads in Judgment.

Obama Leads on Veterans issues.

Obama Leads on securing loose Nukes.

Obama has most military support of any Democrat - and #2 of any candidate.

Quote:
The donation patterns "would suggest that those who wear the uniform want change," said Joe Davis, spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3601542



Comments from www.ObamaTags.com


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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Rec'd; great to hear! I only hope their votes will count. nt
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. thanks for the K&R
Obama is the only candidate running who CLEARLY is a Commander in Chief!
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Obama Leads on Veterans issues"? Since when does doing nothing become leads? BO sits on the Senate
Veterans Affairs Committee and he has done nothing.

I know that he's just a junior senator and doesn't have any clout but don't claim he leads in Veterans Affairs.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. He has championed and made real changes for veterans
On VA Care, AND

On military hospital care - including concrete changes at Walter Reed.

And as you point out - in a very short time.

Yes he has. Sorry - guess again.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. You made the claim, back it up with specific bills he introduced that were passed. n/t
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Bullshit. Before you start flapping your gums, you should do some
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I'm a veteran and BO has done absolutely nothing. I follow VA activities very closely. n/t
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. My Cousin is in Iraq
And also follows it closely - and he and his whole platoon are pro Obama. One guy in their group likes
Ron Paul.

He follows the concrete changes - for example at Walter Reed - that Obama has done.

Most up to rank of 1st Lietenant is for Obama, Paul -- up in the high ranks they get political and start
looking out for careers, and start leaning towards McCain.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Then have your cousin cite a single bill BO introduced that passed. n/t
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. you are starting to sound like you can't read
since you've been provided the link 3 times.

and the raw facts of the donations show how he is viewed in the Military as well.

The word on from Iraq -- for anyone below rank of 1st Lieutenant - is STRONGLY pro Obama.
It is alot of enthusiasm - also because of alot of minority and younger members of the Military.

And when the write home - they tell their family members what they think, and they ain't sayin' "vote for Mrs. Clinton"
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. It is you having a reading problem. Go each bill and see whether it has passed or not. Is that so
difficult for you to do because BO's page has a link to the congressional site.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Wrong - "passing bills" is not a measure of leadership
It is about driving issues - on multiple levels. He will do PLENTY more for our troops than Mrs. Clinton would.

you are just simply stunning in your lack of ability to process simple facts and draw conclusions.

I'd be happy find another link for you on basic introductory logic.

if you think it could help you?
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Wrong, getting your bill passed is precisely what leadership is about in congress. If you want to
talk about leadership on something else, e.g. a pickup basketball team then BO might have demonstrated leadership but I don't know about that.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Wrong again...
even though that is not a measure of leadership at all, but since you mention
"introducing bills" again... perhaps you missed:

Greater Funding for Veterans Health Care
As early as February 2005, Senator Obama warned of a shortfall in the VA budget. Four months later, the VA reported that in fact it had more than a $1 billion shortfall. Senator Obama cosponsored a bill that led to a $1.5 billion increase in veterans' medical care. During the debate on the Fiscal Year 2007 budget, Senator Obama cosponsored measures that would have provided additional funding increases for veterans.

In January 2007, Senator Obama reintroduced the Lane Evans Veterans Health and Benefits Improvement Act to improve the VA’s planning process to avoid budget shortfalls in the future. The bill requires the VA and the Department of Defense to work together and share data so that we know precisely how many troops will be returning home and entering the VA system.

Not everything gets "passed" in one term - but the leadership on veterans issues and his support with the military is clear.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. see also
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
45. Illinois is DEAD LAST in Veterans Health Care! 12/21/2007
Read it and weep! The nerve of this fraud taking money from soldiers when he hasn't done a Damn thing for them!

http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=3077
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #45
52. Wrong Mrs. Clinton has done nothing for troops
or veterans

and also lacks any judgment at all. She is unqualified to be commander in chief.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. We're talking about Obama soliciting donations from troops serving in Iraq..
The man knows no shame! Obama is a grifting fraud. He's NEVER done anything for the troops but tell them what needs doing. The same empty Rhetoric he uses on the stump! Here are a few excerpts from the link detailing Obama's performance helping the Veterans:

While Illinois’, and the Nation’s, Veterans Suffer, Obama Campaigns

Contributed by Larry C. Johnson

Friday, 21 December 2007

http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=3077

Illinois’ disabled veterans are at “rock bottom” — “dead last” — in benefits and claims processing of applications for disability. But Illinois’ veterans take a back seat because their junior senator is running for president. And thatsenator, Barack Obama, has missed an astonishing number of hearings and meetings of the Senate Veterans committee.

Obama is nothing if not audacious in touting his veterans committee membership as contributing to his “foreignpolicy”experience for the presidency, while his own state’s veterans suffer. The Chicago Sun-Times ran a devastating
missed an “exceedingly important” nomination hearing for the VA’s Undersecretary for Health. “Dr. Perlin to serve as VA’s Under Secretary for Health,” announced Chairman Craig. “This is an exceedingly important position. The Under Secretary, in effect, serves as CEO of the VA’s entire health care system, the largest integrated health care system in the United States.

Dr. Perlin, this is a big, big, big job.” (From the GPO on April 7, 2005.)

...

Sen. Obama missed the vote to eliminate requirement that severance pay be deducted from disability compensation: Obama did not vote for thenLevin, D-Mich., amendment No. 2019 to the Levin substitute amendment No. 2011. (The Levin amendment would establish a Defense Department and Atlantic Free Press - Hard Truths for Hard Times

http://atlanticfreepress.com Powered by Joomla!

Veterans Affairs Interagency Program Office to implement a joint electronic health record system and eliminate the current requirement that severance pay be deducted from disability compensation forndisabilities incurred in a combat zone. It would authorize $50 million for the treatment and rehabilitation of service members with traumaticnbrain injury or post-traumatic stress disorder and create common disability ratings to determine those eligible for care. The substitute would authorize $648.3 billion for defense programs in fiscal 2008, including $127.5 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It also would authorize $143.5 billion for operations and maintenance; $109.9 billion for procurement; $122.9 billion for military personnel and $74.7 billion for research development, testing and evaluation.

(The Senate vote results: #246, Amdt. 2019 to HR 1585, Passed 94-0: R 48-0; D 44-0 (ND 39-0, SD 5-0); I 2-0; 7/12/07;
HRC voted yea while Obama did not vote.)


...

Obama missed a vote to provide $109.3 billion in fiscal 2008 for the Department of Veterans Affairs: Obama did not vote for passage of the bill that would provide $109.3 billion in fiscal 2008 for then Department of Veterans Affairs, military construction and military housing. The bill would provide $87.5 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs, including $37.2 billion for veterans health programs. It would provide $41.2 billion in mandatory spending for veterans’
service-connected compensation benefits and pensions. The bill would provide $9.8 billion for military construction, $2.9 billion for military family housing and $8.5 billion for the latest round of base closures. As amended, the bill would provide $100 million in emergency funding for the Homeland Security Department to reimburse state and local law enforcement entities for security and related costs associated with the 2008 presidential candidate nominating conventions.

(From Vote 316, HR 2642

(Fiscal 2008 Military Construction-VA Appropriations), Passed 92-1: R

47-1; D 43-0 (ND 39-0, SD 4-0); I 2-0, 9/6/07; HRC voted yea while

Obama did not vote.


Walter Reed

Obama admitted he did not know of problems at Walter Reed hospital before story was published in Washington Post: “But when asked if he knew, as a member of the Veterans Affairs Committee, about the problems at Walter Reed Hospital before the story was published in the Washington Post, Obama admitted he didn’t. He tried to explain: ‘People will acknowledge that the medical facility at Walter Reed does great work. Unfortunately, what it turned out was the outpatient facilities were disastrous.’” — in the Chicago Sun-Times, June 4, 2007

- From Washington Times editorial (Yes, it’s the Washington Times, but remember that this is exactly what the GOP
would say about Obama in a general election):


Obama’s Walter Reed bill is ‘classic scandal legislation which makes the sponsor look good but does little to solve the issue’ “The remedies much discussed this week, courtesy of Democratic Sens. Claire McCaskill and Barack Obama, are laughable if they are intended to solve the systemic problems. They are a bandaid on a gaping wound. The senators’ call for simplifying paperwork, hiring more caseworkers and improving their training, requiring more oversight from inspectors general, improved reporting to Congress, establishing facility-repair timelines.

Atlantic Free Press - Hard Truths for Hard Times

http://atlanticfreepress.com Powered by Joomla! Generated: 7 March, 2008, 02:22

"and increasing psychological counseling. It pains us to cry cynical politics because these measures would be worthy and welcome, but they are too small-bore and reactive to make a significant difference. This is classic scandal legislation which makes the sponsor look good but does little to solve the issue.”

...

Its useful provisions were incorporated by the Armed Services Committee, on which Sen. Hillary Clinton is a highly proactive member and works with her Republican colleagues, into better legislation that passed the Senate. From The Buffalo News, October 29, 2007:

Besides, throughout the year, Clinton has chosen to be in Washington for big moments far more often than her rival candidates. On July 12, for example, she cut short a trip to Detroit to return to D.C. to vote on an amendment boosting aid for wounded veterans — a vote all the other presidential candidates missed. Sen. Obama hung around at the NAACP convention in Detroit.

More about Hillary's work for Veterans here and at link at top of the page:

However, Sen. Clinton rushed back to Washington, D.C. to vote on the “landmark legislation to improve care for wounded troops and veteranswhen they return home from battle.” (From Sen. Patty Murray’s press release, “Murray Lauds Passage Of Senate Wounded Warrior Bill.”)

...

See also:

“Obama Talks the Talk, But Where’s the Walk?,”

which reveals that Obama, as chairman of the Subcommittee on European

http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=3077
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. Wrong - hit piece from Mrs. Clinton Campaign
She has accomplished ZERO in her whole career.

He has not been "soliciting" money from military members - they are supporting him.

You obviously don't know anybody in Iraq.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #60
74. Prove it! How many times has Obama been to Iraq? once? maybe?
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Riley133 Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #74
106. Wow - that's a good point. nt
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. I provided a link for you; if you don't want to read it, so be it.
And iirc, we've had this conversation before. So you're a vet; so is my husband and he supports Obama unreservedly. As do most of the troops apparently.

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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Please go to the link you cited, click on each of BO's bills, then see how many passed. ZERO.
Why do you accept BO's claims of supporting veterans when the facts on his own page do not support his claim?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Blame the non-passage of them on Obama; that makes sense.
He has no control of how people vote; the fact that he introduced some of these shows he cares.

That's my opinion; you obviously have yours and neither of us are changing anytime soon.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. OK, now you agree that the bills did not pass that you earlier claimed did pass. Thanks! I don't
know why BO's bills did not pass in a Democratic controlled Senate.

It could be any number of reasons including political grandstanding so he could mislead his supporters into believing he was a stalwart defender of veterans' rights when the facts suggest he did next to nothing even though he the opportunity to use his position to help my comrades returning from Iraq and Afghanistan and then being ignored by VA.

You can call that leadership if you want to but I call it incompetence.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. it's about Leadership and Accomplishments - of which Mrs. Clinton has ZERO
and zero credibility - as commander of anything.

She knows Zero about military issues - and will not release records that show how
flimsy her claims of "experience" in the white house are - where she did nothing of any substance.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. We are talking about claims that BO is a leader on VA affairs. Please support that claim. n/t
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. you are growing tiresome... for the last time
passing "bills" as you seem to be in love with - is NOT a measure of LEADERSHIP.

Just like nothing Mrs. Clinton has ever done has demonstrated leadership.

Look up Leadership in the Dictionary - and see if you can find "passing bills" as part of the definition.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:leadership&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title


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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. I'm so sorry you are growing tired trying to prove the impossible. Have a good day and goodbye. n/t
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. See also - more proof of Obama leadership
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
56. Obama doesn't Vote on Veteran's Legeslation..as seen here..
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #56
64. Why bother the FAITHful with facts, they are chanting “HOPE, CHANGE, . .. HOPE, CHANGE”! n/t
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Yep, and it's all theirown fault they have to change..
:rofl:
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Go to BO's web page that you cite and identify a single bill BO introduced that passed. n/t
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. link is above
and again for you:

http://obama.senate.gov/issues/veterans/

but the point is also the money itself - it shows who military members think has the judgment to be commander in chief.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
80. What it shows is Obama has been LYING to the Troops as well!
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 08:25 AM by Tellurian
for FAR TOO LONG!
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. not all leadership is about "passing a bill"
and Mrs. Clinton does not seem to know that.

Some is just about your judgment - and being right - from Day 1.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Leadership in congress is about introducing bills and getting them passed. I know BO is a junior
senator and I don't expect him to have accomplished anything,

He hasn't, that's to be expected, and that's OK with me but people should not claim he has been a leader on Veterans Affairs when that is certainly not the case.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Wrong again - i get you are in love with "passing bills"
even though that is not a measure of leadership at all, but since you mention
"introducing bills" again... perhaps you missed:

Greater Funding for Veterans Health Care
As early as February 2005, Senator Obama warned of a shortfall in the VA budget. Four months later, the VA reported that in fact it had more than a $1 billion shortfall. Senator Obama cosponsored a bill that led to a $1.5 billion increase in veterans' medical care. During the debate on the Fiscal Year 2007 budget, Senator Obama cosponsored measures that would have provided additional funding increases for veterans.

In January 2007, Senator Obama reintroduced the Lane Evans Veterans Health and Benefits Improvement Act to improve the VA’s planning process to avoid budget shortfalls in the future. The bill requires the VA and the Department of Defense to work together and share data so that we know precisely how many troops will be returning home and entering the VA system.

Not everything gets "passed" in one term - but the leadership on veterans issues and his support with the military is clear.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. I'm not "in love with 'passing bills'". I want to see changes made and to date BO has not
demonstrated the ability to do anything for veterans.

Of course you can prove otherwise by citing a single bill that BO introduced that helped veterans.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. see also
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. it's about leadership of which Mrs. Clinton has ZERO
and zero credibility - as commander of anything.

She knows Zero about military issues - and will not release records that show how
flimsy her claims of "experience" in the white house are - where she did nothing of any substance.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
58. You're the ZERO.. You know nothing about what your talking about.. your a sad Joke!
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
42. please - see also the following:
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
96. He and McCaskill introduced bill to improve conditions at Walter Reed
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JorgeTheGood Donating Member (736 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Doesn't matter - the military is McCain country ...
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 07:40 PM by JorgeTheGood
he is on The Senate Committee on Armed Services and one of the few senators that fights for both the active military and the veterans. Trying to coop McCain on that issue is a waste of resources for either BO or HC.

It's probably also worth while mentioning he served honorably and is considered a hero.

BO probably doesn't even know how to spell uniform ... or Hillary.

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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Hardly... he has more donations than McCain from Military Members
#1 is not McCain... it was Ron Paul!!

McCain is actually weak on issues that the Military cares about.

Donations from Military were 70-30 Republican in 2000 and 2004

Now they are 55-45 (55% to republicans) - so it's nearly an even split.

A BIG PART OF THAT is the desire for REAL change - and Obama.

Hillary has drawn very poorly from REAL voting "boots on the ground" in the Military.
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JorgeTheGood Donating Member (736 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
32. Too bad you think the military will vote for
a chickenhawk that never suited up, over a real military man. You will be sorely disappointed.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
43. some will - some wont - but he has a much better support than Mrs. Clinton
with our troops.

Many of our troops are young minorities.

Many feel that the war in iraq was a mistake - and they support the only person running who had the
guts to call it right - from Day #1
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #32
104. they voted for Bush over Kerry didn't they?
Never understood that.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Sorry, we're out to get that vote as well.
Somehow I think a lot of troops serving right now would rather not have to go to war in Iran.
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JorgeTheGood Donating Member (736 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. Don't want to go to war in Iran but ...
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 08:03 PM by JorgeTheGood
war in Pakistan is hokey-dokey ...
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
47. Wrong - striking Osama Bin Laden - on Actionable Intelligence
IF AND WHEN Pakistan refuses to Act - After Consultation.

Hell Yes. Why - would Mrs. Clinton NOT strike Bin Laden if Pakistan Refused to act?

You can bet your ass that McCain would.

If so - one more strike against her claim to be Commander in Chief.
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JorgeTheGood Donating Member (736 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #47
57. intelligence ?
like the intelligence we had on Iraq ... What were their names ? Oh yeah ... Blair, Bush, Cheney, Rice and that super duper top secret undercover spies of all spies double agentman cueball, or was it hardball or snowball ... whatever.

sorry but an army entering another country without permission is an act of war. PERIOD.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #57
107. Shows how little you know
But keep spinning.
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. Bingo. I was thinking about this the other day.
I think Ron Paul used it as a pretty good zinger during the Republican debates. It may even have been during a tussle with McCain.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. Awesome! K&R
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. K and R Eyes Wide Open
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FedoraLV Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
30. Some specifics
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. thanks - more great links - Jody - please have a looksee?
i hope your browser works jody - plenty of things in the links that even meet your criteria!!
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
50. Why look elsewhere when BO's site lists every bill he introduced and none passed. If the measure of
leadership is programs introduced to congress, then Hillary is way ahead of BO because she put together the 1993 Clinton health care plan.

I don't call Hillary's work leadership because she failed just as BO's efforts also failed.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
44. BS! You claimed "Obama Leads on Veterans issues" and cannot support your claim. Why not remove
that claim from your post until you can support it.

Of course if you have FAITH in BO, you can chant "Hope, Change . . . Hope, Change" and supernatural powers will be yours to destroy all the evil demons in your fantasy.

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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. You are hillarios - but i do like the graphic - here is more proof
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. You miss the simple point! A senator is judged by the bills she/he introduces and were passed. Why
claim BO demonstrated leadership on veterans affairs when his own site does not list a single bill of his that was passed.

Do you honestly think some other site will cite such a bill and BO's staff overlook such a critical, crucial fact? :rofl:

One need look no further than BO's site to judge whether he is or is not a leader for veterans affairs.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #53
71. why do I even bother...
Veterans’ Affairs Bill Incorporates Obama Proposals to Improve Veterans’ Health Care and Benefits
Wednesday, June 27, 2007
Printable Format

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: Ben LaBolt

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Several initiatives to improve veterans’ health care proposed by Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) were today included in comprehensive legislation that passed the Veterans’ Affairs Committee. Those measures would launch the VA Hospital Quality Report Card Initiative (S.692), extend mental health care coverage for veterans, require timely mental health evaluations upon the veteran's request, improve the VA's support and outreach to members of the National Guard and Reserve and their families, and strengthen oversight of the VA's provision of services and benefits to veterans.

“This legislation goes a long way toward providing our honorable veterans and their family members with the benefits and care they deserve,” said Senator Obama. “I am proud that this package includes my proposals to strengthen hospital quality, expand mental health care coverage for veterans, broaden outreach activities for our Guard members and Reservists, and strengthen VA oversight. Providing the best care for our service members, veterans and their families is one thing about this war we can still get right.”

Obama's proposals would make significant improvements in the VA's provision of mental health care services to returning veterans and extend outreach to ensure members of the National Guard and Reserves -- and their families -- have critical information and receive assistance in applying for VA benefits they deserve.

Specifically, the legislation would require the VA to extend the window during which veterans can apply for mental health care benefits from 2 to 5 years. The bill would also require that the VA provide any veteran with a mental health evaluation in 30 days or less from the time of the request. The measure also strengthens VA reporting on its provision of benefits and services to veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan -- in past years a lack of information and poor planning by the VA's leadership led to significant funding shortfalls for the agency.

Obama Initiatives Include:

* Launches the VA Hospital Quality Report Card: Launches an initiative to report on health care quality at VA hospitals, and includes an innovative feature that will place the report cards online so that veterans can assess the quality of different facilities.

* Expands mental health coverage from 2 to 5 years for veterans upon separation from active duty: Expands the time period service members can have access to mental health resources.

* Requires 30-day turnaround for mental health evaluation requests: Requires that a VA center provide a mental health evaluation to any veteran within 30 days or less from his or her request.

* Strengthens Reporting Requirements: Strengthens reporting on the benefits and provision of services to veterans, including the numbers of benefit claims and compensation, pension benefits, vet center usage, and aggregated information on the mental health needs of veterans.

* Improves National Guard and Reservists Outreach: Requires the VA to include Guard members and Reservists in its outreach activities and to ensure outreach activities include both the provision of information as well as assistance to veterans and families in applying for benefits.

Senator Obama initially introduced these proposals as the VA Hospital Quality Report Card Act (S.692) and the Lane Evans Veterans’ Health and Benefits Improvement Act (S. 117) earlier this year.

Obama serves as a member of the Veterans’ Affairs Committee.
http://obama.senate.gov/press/070627-veterans_affair/



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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #71
76. Apparently you have FAITH in BO, just keep chanting “HOPE, CHANGE” and ignore facts. n/t
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #76
87. Who do you think you are?
I posted an article. I said nothing. And you respond like this? Is your only goal here to post demeaning, derisive one-liners against ordinary human beings of who you know nothing about? Do you even care about government policies and how they affect and shape this society?


I've seen bodies ripped to pieces by bullets, blown into millions of scraps by bombs, and pierced by booby traps. I’ve smelled the stench of bodies burned. I’ve heard the air sound like it was boiling from rounds flying back and forth. I’ve lived an insanity others should never live..."
-- Dennis Tenety, Fire in the Hole


●-Michael C.C. Adams, The Best War Ever: America and World War II About 25-30 percent of WWII casualties were psychological cases; under very severe conditions that number could reach as high as 70-80percent. In Italy, mental problems accounted for 56 percent of total casualties. On Okinawa, where fighting conditions were particularly horrific, 7,613 Americans died, 31,807 sustained physical wounds, and 26, 221 were mental casualties.-Adams, 95Trying to repress feelings, they drank, gambled suffered paralyzing depression, and becameinarticulately violent. A paratrooper’s wife would “sit for
hours and just hold him when he shook. Afterward, he started beating her and the children: “He became a
brute.” And they divorced —-Adams, 150



All Soldiers Fade Away

Justin HudallPosted November 11, 2007 | 06:39 PM (EST)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/justin-hudnall/all-soldie...

"Thirty-five percent of Iraq war veterans accessed mental health services in the year after returning home, while 12% per year were diagnosed with a mental health problem. Against this grim backdrop is an issue that has ignited debate among veterans, government officials and civilians in the healthcare industry: how the Veterans Affairs Department could improve access to healthcare services for rural veterans, who account for about 40% of the VA's patient population." There are 21 states with higher than the national average of veterans within their populations. Eighteen of these are rural states.Because of advances in body armor and medical technology, this war will produce a higher proportion of seriously wounded, traumatized, and brain-damaged veterans than any other.Compounding this is an expected baby boom among military personnel, meaning that the next generation, growing up in the shadow of the Iraq war, will be significantly affected as well.



PTSD and Murder Among Newest Veterans

Jon Soltz | Posted January 14, 2008 | Politics
This weekend, while the 24-hour primary coverage raged on, the New York Times published a very well researched and stunning report on the number of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans involved in killings, here in America. They found at least 121 cases, now, where a veteran was charged with involvement in a homicide.The trend of our newest veterans being involved in killings on the homefront can be largely attributed to four letters -- PTSD. Our failure to properly screen for and treat this mental injury is the source of so many problems our newest veterans face -- from drug and alcohol abuse, to homelessness, to joblessness, to spousal abuse, to suicide, and now, to murders.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-soltz/ptsd-and-murder...


Battle Continues Over Vietnam PTSD Numbers
08.23.07, 12:00 AM ET
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlek...
THURSDAY, Aug. 23 (HealthDay News) --
-In the years following the end of U.S. involvement in Vietnam, the actual number of veteran psychologically scarred by what they had encountered in the war became the subject of heated controversy.
A 1988 study, conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, estimated a relatively low lifetime rate of PTSD among veterans of 14.7 percent.
-------------------------------------------------------
"The most important results have been underemphasized, and that is the dose/response relationship, and that's about as close as you can come to a causal relationship," he said. "The other thing is the rate of 1-in-5 war-related onset of PTSD and 1-in-10 still current after the war of impairing PTSD. That
is far from trivial. This is a heavy cost by any count.


This article originally appeared in the July 2007 volume of the Zero To Three
Journal on Coping With Separation and Loss.
The Young Military Child
Our Modern Telemachus
Stephen J. Cozza
Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences
Alicia F. Lieberman
University of California, San Francisco
-A combat mindset or what has been referred to as Battlemind can lead to misdirected irritability or aggression that can impact on small children. Irritability, emotional rage, jumpiness, hypervigilance, or overreactivity can all lead to family conflict and misunderstanding on the part of the young child. Social withdrawal or reduced communication because of anxiety about sharing upsetting war-related experiences may cause further withdrawal from family members and lead to a child’s confusion about the meaning of such parental nonavailability.
—Postdeployment emotional and behavioral responses can range from more typical short-term distress responses, such as change in sleep, decreased sense of safety, or social isolation, to the development of more serious psychiatric conditions, such as post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) or depression.
Studies conducted by Hoge and colleagues (Hoge et al., 2004; Hoge, Auchterlonie, & Milliken, (2005) at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research have demonstrated significant postdeployment distress in populations of combat exposed soldiers and marines returning from Iraq. When screened 12 months after return from combat deployment, nearly 20% of service members endorsed symptoms consistent with a mental
disorder, most often PTSD or depression.
—Studies have demonstrated that the children of parents with depression (Beardslee, Versage, & Gladstone, 1998) evidence significant problems in a wide range of functional areas. Children of Vietnam veterans with PTSD are more likely to evidence symptoms similar to those of their combat-exposed fathers (Rosenheck & Nathan, 1985; Rosenheck & Thompson, 1986).
http://www.zerotothree.org/site/PageServer


FIELD MANUAL NO. 22-51
HEADQUARTERS DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
Washington, DC, 29 September 1994
CHAPTER 5
BATTLE FATIGUE FM 22-51
5-1. Introduction
Battle fatigue is the approved US Army term (AR 40-216) for combat stress symptoms and reactions which

* Feel unpleasant.
* Interfere with mission performance.
* Are best treated with reassurance, rest, replenishment of physical needs, and activities which restore confidence.
a. Battle fatigue can also be present in soldiers who have been physically wounded or who have nonbattle injuries or diseases caused by stressors in the combat area. It may be necessary to treat both the battle fatigue and the other problems.
b. Battle fatigue may coexist with misconduct stress behaviors. However, battle fatigue itself, by definition, does not warrant legal or disciplinary action.
---------------
b.Leader and medical personnel in forward areas should expect as many or more soldiers to present with duty or rest battle fatigue as there will be hold and refer cases. It is essential that the former not
become casualties by unnecessarily evacuating or holding them for treatment.
c. In general, the more intense the combat, especially with indirect fire and mass destruction, more cases become heavy and need holding or referral, and the harder it is for them to recover quickly and return to duty.
d. Fifty to eighty-five percent of battle fatigue casualties (hold and refer) returned to duty following 1 to 3 days of restoration treatment, provided they are kept in the vicinity of their units (for example, within the division).
NOTE
Premature evacuation of battle fatigue soldiers out of the combat zone must be prevented as it often results in permanent psychiatric disability. If the tactical situation permits, the vacuation policy in the corps should be extended from 7 to 14 days for the reconditioning program, as this will substantially
improve the returned to duty rate and decrease subsequent chronic disability.


HEALTH-US: Iraq Vets Left in Physical and Mental Agony
By Aaron Glantz
The group Veterans for America, formerly the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation, estimates that 10,000 veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan are now living on the street.

"What's unique about the men and women coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan is that they're not able to integrate with their family," Feldstein said. "They've seen horrible things. They've been in horrible places and their family can't relate. And so you become homeless in the last place you lived."

A recent study by Harvard's Kennedy School of Government found that by the time the Iraq and Afghanistan wars end, there will be at least two and a half million vets.
------------------------------------
Pentagon studies show that 12 percent of soldiers who have served in Iraq suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. The group Veterans for America, formerly the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation, estimates 70,000 Iraq war veterans have gone to the VA for mental health care.
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=36056


CHILD ABUSE STATISTICS

In 1999, an estimated 3,244,000 children were reported to Child Protective Services (CPS) agencies as alleged victims of child maltreatment. Child abuse reports have maintained a steady growth for the past ten years, with the total number of reports nationwide increasing 45% since 1987 (Nation Committee for the Prevention of Child Abuse (NCPCA) 2000 Annual Fifty State Survey).
-----------

In 1999, an estimated 1,401 child abuse and neglect related fatalities were confirmed by CPS agencies, nearly 4 every day. Since 1985, the rate of child abuse fatalities has increased by 39%. Based on these numbers, more than three children die each day as a result of child abuse or neglect (NCPCA's 1996 Annual Fifty State Survey).

The U.S. Advisory Board reported that near fatal abuse and neglect each year leave "18,000 permanently disabled children, tens of thousands of victims overwhelmed by lifelong psychological trauma, thousands of traumatized siblings and family members, and thousands of near-death survivors who, as adults, continue to bear the physical and psychological scars.
Some may turn to crime or domestic violence or become abusers themselves (U.S. Advisory Board on Child Abuse and Neglect, 1995 report, A National's Shame.)"
-----------------------------
Finding of the NIS-3:

* The estimated number of children seriously injured by all forms of maltreatment quadrupled between 1986 and 1993, from 141,700 to 565,000 (a 299% increase).
* Considering the Harm Standard:
* The estimated number of sexually abused children increased 83%;
* The number of physically neglected children rose 102%;
* There was a 333 % increase in the estimated number of emotionally neglected children; and
* The estimated number of physically abused children rose 42%.

Poverty is significantly related to incidence rates in nearly every category of maltreatment. Compared to children whose families earned $30,000 or more, children in families with annual incomes below $15,000 were:

* More than 22 times more likely to experience maltreatment under the Harm Standard and 25 times more likely under the Endangerment Standard.
* More than 44 times more likely to be neglected, by either definitional standard.
* Over 22 times more likely to be seriously injured using either definitional standard.
* 60 times more likely to die from maltreatment under the Harm Standard.


(Executive Summary of the Third National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect, September 1996 and Reid, T. (1996). News NIS-3 Data. APSAC Advisor, 9 (3).)
Children whose parents abuse drugs or alcohol are put at a greater risk for violent victimization (National Commission on Children, 1993).

With the exception of homicide, children and youths suffer more victimization than do adults in virtually every category, including physical abuse, sibling assault, bullying, sexual abuse, and rape (American Psychological Association Commission on Violence and Youth, 1993).

It is estimated that children with disabilities are 4 to 10 times more vulnerable to sexual abuse than their non-disabled peers (National Resource Center on Child Sexual Abuse, 1992).

In over 9000 divorces in 12 states, child sexual abuse allegations were made in less then 2% of contested divorces involving child custody (Association of Family Conciliation Courts, 1990).

Survivors:
It is estimated that there are 60 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse in America today (Forward, 1993)

Long term effects of child abuse include fear, anxiety, depression, anger, hostility, inappropriate sexual behavior, poor self esteem, tendency toward substance abuse and difficulty with close relationships (Browne & Finkelhor, 1986).

Clinical findings of adult victims of sexual abuse include problems in interpersonal relationships associated with an underlying mistrust. Generally, adult victims of incest have a severely strained relationship with their parents that is marked by feelings of mistrust, fear, ambivalence, hatred, and betrayal. These feelings may extend to all family members (Tsai and Wagner, 1978).

Guilt is experienced by almost all victims (Tsai and Wagner, 1978).

If a child victim does not resolve the trauma, sexuality may become an area of adult conflict (Courtois & Watts, 1982).

Adults who viewed domestic violence in the home as children have a greater difficulty holding jobs, maintaining relationships with their peers and have a higher risk of developing mental health disorders (Patterson, 1992).



• In 2000, 1.5 million U.S. children had an incarcerated parent. Between 1990-2001, the number of women in prison increased by 106%.
• In 1995, 12% of children in foster care had not received routine health care. 90% had not received services to address developmental delays.
• Between 1992-2002, the number of infants and toddlers entering foster care increased by 110%.
• In 1993, more than 60% of the homeless population in NYC municipal shelters were former foster youth.

• According to a 1999 report, less than 50% of foster youth had graduated from high school, compared to 85% of the general population.
• In 2000, of 732 mid-western foster care youths, nearly 52% had lived in three or more foster homes and had moved schools.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are more than half a million children and youth in the U.S. foster care system, a 90% increase since 1987.Three of 10 of the nation’s homeless are former foster children.
A recent study has found that 12-18 months after leaving foster care:
27% of the males and 10% of the females had been incarcerated

33% were receiving public assistance
37% had not finished high school
50% were unemployed
Children in foster care are three to six times more likely than children not in care to have emotional, behavioral and developmental problems,

A study by the National Center for Mental Health and Juvenille Justice found 70% of these youth meet the criteria for at least one mental health disorder. What's worse is that 36% of the parents of these youth intentionaly involved the juvenille justice system to access mental health services...some 12,700 children were places in either child welfare, or the juvenilled justice systems to access mental health systems (U.S. GAO 2003) Of course, the U.S. DOJ in recent investigations into the conditions in these juvenille detention and correctional facilities, found inadequate access to treatment, inappropriate use of medications, and neglect of suicide attempts nationwide (U.S.DOJ 2005).
---80 percent of prison inmates have been through the foster care system.

* 872,000 children and youth were confirmed victims of abuse or neglect in the United States in 2004.



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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #87
90. OP claimed "Obama Leads on Veterans issues" when BO has done nothing. Please read the posts in this
thread.

There are some however who refuse to recognize the lack of BO accomplishments during his time on the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee. They chant "Hope, Change" keeping the Faith that words will conquer rather than deeds.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #90
91. Again...
You are not the judge and jury that decides the 'worth' of another human being. You...said nothing about the article I posted, but continue to attack based on "your" opinion of Obama's work, and "your" yardstick regarding what makes a legislator 'Good'. Seeing as how you are not interested in actually reading and responding to what is posted, why don't you make it easy on yourself and just post.."BLACK_BARACK_MUSLIM_REZKO_SCARY_OSAMA_OBAMA_SUCKS"
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #91
97. I see we disagree. Have a great day and good bye. n/t
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Is that graphic from the "Obama is the AntiChrist" site?
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 08:28 PM by Emit
Oh my! I best not stare at it too long. :rofl:
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. That's an animation of the Blue Wizard. n/t
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. the blue wizard is the best
part of your posts so far on this thread. I love the blue Wizard! Thank you!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. K&R.. for all to see the grifting fraud, Obama for what he is!
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Mrs. Clinton is a Hillarious Fraud
As is your link. ROFLMAO.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. You can lie to yourself but NOT to US..
Try shilling somebody that believes your BS...and don't forget to get that donation for the grifter!
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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. So are all the troops donating to Obama gullible suckers?
:shrug:
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #67
81. There are not gulliable if they read the facts that Obama has done squat for them..
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 08:32 AM by Tellurian
in my posted link and the excerpts in post #55..

If you have a friend or a loved one in Iraq, point them to the that post so they are informed.
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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #81
109. Hey, I'm so informed I know no candidate since Ike was a worthy CinC
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 02:53 AM by PerfectSage
If your so informed the last General worthy of was praise as great was Stonewall Jackson.

At least Obama's got leadership game. Considering how Hillary was so stupid to overlook the potential of Dean's 50 state strategy and grassroots organization. :rofl:

So how's that fightin' tooth and nail workin' out? Only she forgot it was about delegates in every state and every caucus. She's blown it. I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooo unimpressed with Hillary's leadership.

That's what I call pisspoor Generalship.

I wouldn't want that dumbshit to answer the 3 o'clock phone.

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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. any support of Mrs. Clinton
is pure fraud. She has never done anything for troops or the military.

she does everything for her own lust for power.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #68
73. Prove it!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #73
82. *******crickets*******
Liars never respond!
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
59. And I'm one of them !!
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. Good job & Thank you RBInMaine!
We Salute You!
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peacebaby3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
69. We're military donating and supporting Obama! Know a lot more that are doing the same! n/t
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
70. K&R
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
72. #1 overall is presumably Ron Paul?
Haven't heard that he has dropped out, have you?
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #72
75. No. Obama is #1 overall. EOM
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. From the OP--
"Obama has most military support of any Democrat - and #2 of any candidate."

Was this statement wrong?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #78
84. Wrong in the sense of misplaced loyalty by the troops..
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 08:42 AM by Tellurian
because Obama is BS'ing them.. Send them this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4935219#4937075

so they can see for themselves, Obama is no better than Bush..and his cousin Cheney!
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #78
88. Also from the OP
"Obama, an Illinois senator, brought in more donations from this group than any White House contender from either party."
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. Well, that's two sentences that can'tpossibly both be true at the same time
Which one is correct?
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #89
94. I've looked. Obama is ahead....quote below
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 10:19 AM by lojasmo
"Obama got 44 contributions worth about $27,000 and Paul 23 for about $19,300. Republican John McCain, an Iraq war supporter and Vietnam prisoner of war, was third with about $18,500 from 32 donors. "
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #94
103. Is that just for one month? 99 contributions doesn't seem like a lot n/t
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
77. That's why an Iraqi war veteran is leading the charge in Pennsylvania. nt
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #77
83. And who would that be, Pvt Obama?
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #83
86. Rep. Patrick Murphy, oh snarky one. nt
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #86
95. Wow, I didn't know, Rep. Murphy was Iraqi..
Thanks for the info! :hi:
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. You should at least show some respect for his service.
In 1993, Congressman Murphy put on his U.S. Army uniform for the first time. He went on to become a West Point professor, airborne and air assault qualified, a JAG Corps attorney, and serve two deployments after 9/11 - the first to Bosnia in 2002 and the second to Baghdad, Iraq in 2003-2004 as a paratrooper with the 82nd Airborne Division. For his service, Captain Murphy earned the Bronze Star for service and his unit earned the Presidential Unit Citation.

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #98
102. I guess you still don't get it..
"That's why an Iraqi war veteran is leading the charge in Pennsylvania."

Congressman Murphy is not an Iraqi War Veteran, goofy. Congressman Murphy is a Veteran of the Iraq War.

Still can't see the difference? Not surprising!
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
79. The MSM won't give these guys air time
Just Hillary and her General buddies from the industrial military complex.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
85. Yep, soldiers in one camp,
The military industrial complex and generals in the other. Interesting aside.
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Yossariant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
92. Of course he leads in military donations. DUH!
He's going to keep them employed when he invades Pakistan.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #92
93. This post shows an amazing disrespect for our soldiers.
You think they LIKE being in Iraq? That they enjoy being sent there tour after tour? Their lives at risk?

If this were the case, why wouldn't they be supporting McCain, who's guaranteeing 100 years of employment?
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
99. aren't military members typically rebublican leaning? yay! repuglicans love O. nt
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slick8790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. Wow. Award for most ignorant and disrespectful post of the day goes to....VotesForWomen! n/t
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
101. "Obama got 44 contributions worth about $27,000"
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Riley133 Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #101
108. That's quite a chunk of change per each individual! nt
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Riley133 Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
105. What about Afghanistan? Oh, he was too busy running a campaign.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 02:22 AM by Riley133
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=334x2722

You can google it as well if you don't want a HRC reference. He's on record.
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