Whoa...WHOA guys. Look, I'm just as mad at Hillary Clinton as a lot of you guys are...

[Danger Mouse]

but this is going too far.
There are too many hateful posts. Let's THINK about what we say before we post it, eh?
I KNOW you guys are upset with her. I KNOW you guys are disgusted with her tactics.
That's how WE feel. Other people see it differently.
I'm just sayin...I think we can express our feelings in more constructive ways.
Why make things worse than they already are? I'd just like...a little sanity. Some? Please?

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. Just following orders. Obomiods on duty, night shift.

[Danger Mouse]

4. Please. That kind of crap doesn't help either.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. But I thought that was Hillary's shift.

Which is why she can answer the phone at 3am in a business suit with full hair and makeup on.

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. Your shift just started?

[bowens43]

18. It's dumbass posts like this from Hillary supporters that started this war.

[Danger Mouse]

23. FFS. Let's not begin 'but they started it!!'

[The_Casual_Observer]

27. I'll add thin skinned Obamoids.

[Blarch]

2. thought baout it.

still hate her.

Ask yourself why you hate Bush and Rove ..then you will know why we are turning on Hillary. If it walks like a duck...

[Danger Mouse]

14. She's NOT Bush and Rove. I don't agree with what she is doing right now...

especially her treatment of the FL/MI issue (it strikes me as very hypocritical)...but let's be realistic.
The ENEMY is John McCain.
Not Hillary Clinton. SHE'S ONE OF US.

[Connie_Corleone]

30. Any Democrat who will praise McCain and say Obama isn't qualified to be president...

...is not one of us as far as I'm concerned. She did it last week and she did it again today. She truly despises Obama and would rather see McCain win the presidency if she can't be the nominee.

[Yael]

45. Yep. She is rolling out her 2012 strategy as we speak.

[emilyg]

55. Just like Obama's love fest with repugs.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

57. Sing it sister!

[Kittycat]

32. I'm sorry Elrond. She's no longer a qualified democrat.

She's setting the PARTY up for defeat this fall, because she didn't get her way this time around. It's painfully obvious she's setting things up for 2012. Her only mission now is to destroy Obama in the process. Even if that means elevating McCain to get there.

[dansolo]

33. Then why is Hillary complementing THE ENEMY?

Right now, I can't figure out which side Hillary is on.

[peaches2003]

47. Hillary and Bill have always been for only one side-

their own. They don't care about anything but themselves and will destroy the Democratic Party if they think they need to in order to destroy opposition to what they want. She is despicable and will never be President. She is not one of us.

[leftofcool]

3. No keep it up

The folks on the other side of the political fence are loving it. And I think the Obama supporters love it too.

[Danger Mouse]

7. I don't love it, personally.

It makes the sane ones among us look bad, and makes it more difficult overall.

[leftofcool]

24. I dont blame you

unfortunately most Obama supporters here dont mind finding themselves on right wing talking points

[LulaMay]

5. Thank you. Sexism abounds and true liberals should address it, not tolerate it.

The over the edge emotional hatred and ant-woman remarks are unbelievable.

And nobody wants to talk about women turning out to vote for her in droves or why...or what that means for the party and the election.

[Danger Mouse]

9. emotional, yes. people are letting emotions get WAY out of hand.

[OzarkDem]

13. Agree, let it out boys

Then heal yourselves of your sexism or get the heck out of the Democratic Party. Time for you to go.

Women Dems are tired of being the majority of the party, working our asses off on campaigns, supporting the men candidates, then watching them trash Clinton for no better reason than the fact that she's a woman.

Get used to it, guys. 52% of Dem voters are women and that number is growing every day as more women voters become empowered by women leaders. Like it or leave.

[johnnydrama]

53. no better reason than she's a woman

Riiiiiiight, because it would be exactly the same if Barbara Boxer was running for President.

[LiberalAndProud]

8. Thank you, Elrond.

I'm not kicking those threads. They're ugly and stupid.

Are there trolls under the bridge?

[Danger Mouse]

11. Lots of them. And I'm afraid this thread is going to go the same way soon enough...

sigh.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. I have seen way too many longtime DUers

post some nasty shit defending Hillary. I lost count of how many I have lost respect for, not because they support Hillary, but because of the nasty things they are saying. It's beyond sad. Wish I could just blame trolls but in too many cases, they are not trolls or newbies.

[LiberalAndProud]

41. Lots of mudslinging both ways.

And long-time members have proven to be untrustworthy in the past.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. True but I have actually met some of them in person

and it is just sickening to see them turn into monsters on this discussion board.

[Arkansas Granny]

56. I have lost count of the long time DUers who support Hillary that

I don't even see posting here right now. I think that many of them have grown tired of many of the Obama supporters constantly trashing their candidate.

[AJH032]

10. Hateful posts alienate Clinton voters

It's true. Think about it.

[Danger Mouse]

12. Well...Clinton voters on DU. I don't think what happens on DU

is going to have much influence on much of anything...
but it's still common fucking decency.
And that should be enough.

[OzarkDem]

17. Did Karl Rove sell you that load?

Believe it at your peril.

[waiting for hope]

20. It's turning away a lot of

others here as well. I thought his campaign was about unity and hope - I'm not seeing much of that and frankly, am getting tired of the "well she did it too" whine as well.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. LOL I was just cussed at,

then went to another thread where one of Hillary's fans was calling Obama supporters slime.

Yes her tactics are grotesque but some of her fans on DU have gone off the deep end.

[Danger Mouse]

19. Yeah. I see plenty of garbage from Hillary supporters.

Doesn't mean I'm going to play those games, even if I DO get angry.
We ALL have to be better than this.

[OzarkDem]

22. Got a link?

[Danger Mouse]

28. Don't kid yourself.

How about 'Abomination' 'obamababies' 'obamacrybabies,' Larry Sinclair posts, 'cultists' 'i-pod kids,' and more?
Trying to act like supporters on your side haven't been pumping slime too is just laughable.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Like magic - just following your request:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4937200&mesg_id=4937475

[Danger Mouse]

34. heh, oh and look at durrtylibby's post downthread.

that's pretty slimy.

[OzarkDem]

21. There are some pretty unbelievable posts

including those trashing Geraldine Ferraro.

If people want to be stupid enough to post ignorant insults about good Democratic women they should be prepared to be criticized for it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. I was thinking more of the crap they are saying to each other

I wouldn't criticize Geraldine because I am a great admirer of hers, regardless of who she supports in the presidential race. But some of the shit people are saying to each other here is just gross. No excuse for calling someone slime or mentally unstable because they support a different candidate. No excuse whatsoever.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nomorewhopper]

hillary went negative and now the gloves are totally off

karma is a bitch, eh?

[Faygo Kid]

42. Bingo.

You nailed it.

[writes3000]

29. I really do not like Hillary's tactics of the last week.

I'm disgusted in fact.

But I don't think her supporters are bad or evil or delusional or lacking wisdom or racist or anything but supporters.

We should speak out against the behavior. That's usually the safest. I'm sure I've let my anger get the best of me a few times though.

[woolldog]

35. Too late for that.

She's gone nu- cu - ler

:nuke:

[book_worm]

36. Sorry she's aiding the enemy and will be called on it.

[Danger Mouse]

37. how is she aiding the enemy?

[susankh4]

38. Osama Bin Laden?

Is that who she is aiding?

[better tomorrow]

39. I think they just get frustrated because.....

the Obama supporters can see things clearly and have for awhile and we wonder why the Hillary supporters still have blinders on. But you are right. Our goal here should be to educate those HRC supporters in the TRUTH and wake them up. She is part of the shadow government......but, they have to believe in it first. It's clear to me.

[Danger Mouse]

40. If we want to educate people...

saying 'fuck hillary' over and over won't do much to accomplish that goal.

[MadMaddie]

43. Elrond what you are seeing here is passionate short sightedness

Apparently people haven't clued in that we still have two out of three of the best candidates running for President.

In the end this divisiveness will hand McCain the nomination and the Supreme Court.

So I say too everyone that is turning inward like cancerous cells on the Democratic party, do it at the peril of the future of America. (Now this may seem extreme but the last 7 seven years of the USA in a downward spiral makes me very worried about the future of our country.) If you are not worried...then you should be. That's all...

[DJ13]

44. Sorry, but Hillary is no longer fit to be our Democratic nominee

Her negative campaign is beyond the pale.

She's placed her own ambitions above the Party now.

Its time we place the Party above Hillary and tell her and her supporters were not going to put up with her Rovian tactics any longer.

[David Zephyr]

46. One of my old, die-hard friend called me this afternoon swearing about the Clintons.

He and his wife, like me, defended Bill & Hillary socially all through the Monica crap.

Today, he called me swearing how he's sick of them tearing down Barack Obama and continuing their campaign when they know they can't lose.

He told me that he despises them. Despises.

It's going to a boil and the blame can only be laid at the feet of the Clintons.

Wait until all the Obama supporters gear up and their joy turns into raw and then organized anger.

The Clintons have opened Pandora's Box and it is probably too late to close it now.

[Danger Mouse]

48. If she wins the nomination..

I'm starting to wonder...if she can win in November...

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. My best friend supports Hillary

and we talk almost every day about the presidential race. Haven't called each other names or even raised our voices.

But anytime now I swear I am going to convert her :)

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

59. I feel just like your old die-hard friend

I too defended Bill and Hillary through thick and thin through his adminstration. I am a Democrat and have always been a Democrat and have only voted for Democrats exclusively for my entire life. I have contributed money to Russ Feingold's fund, and local races and John Kerry and the Democratic Congressional whatever it is.

I too have now come to despise them. And I think that is the correct word. If I wanted a mud-slinging, fear and rumor-mongering, whisper campaigning, win-at-any-cost, vote manipulating candidate to represent me, I would be a Republican.

Hillary makes me ashamed to be in the same party with her.

[NC_Nurse]

64. Agreed. I worked for the Clinton campaign in '92, helped run the

doorstep campaign for the whole state of NC. I was disappointed by him in many ways,
but still defended them when the scandal was going down. Figured if she won the nom
I'd give her my vote even though she was my last choice among all the candidates this time.

Now, I probably won't. Not that it will matter in this state, she doesn't have a chance in Hell.

[JVS]

50. I think it's important that people express their feelings freely.

[Arkansas Granny]

61. It is possible to express your feeling freely and still be civil.

There has been a definite lack of civility around here. The name calling, insults and baseless attacks on either candidate do nothing to advance the discussion and they don't convince anyone to change their mind.

[LiberalAndProud]

68. In that case ...

I think I love you.
:loveya:

[otohara]

52. I'm Beginning to Really Dislike Her

for the first time in 16 years of admiring her.

[DemGa]

58. It's been too late from the start -- BO set this negative tone toward Hillary

by using right-wing generated perceptions against Hillary e.g., "Divisive and polarizing."

They are only parroting BO.

[dana_b]

60. and he's right!

Look at what is going on here. People are more divided, and also angry at her, than ever!

[DLnyc]

74. I don't think that is quite fair.

I think most people would say Obama has run a very postive campaign, and that Hillary has been called 'divisive and polarizing', not by the right wing, but by Democrats who look at the polls. Polls for a long long time have given her high approval and high disapproval. That is why people have said she is polarizing. Here are some polls, to show where I get this idea: http://www.pollingreport.com/C2.htm#Hillary

Do you serioously believe Obama started out negative? Or are you just defending your candidate? I'm really curious which it is.

[tandot]

62. Thanks for trying, but it won't help

it seems that most reasonable people have left GD-P because they are tired of all the hateful and irrational bashing.

Just looking at a lot of the responses to your thread shows you who is left here.

I am ready to hide the whole GD-P forum so the unhinged supporters can post their trash and cheer each other on by themselves.

[seabeyond]

63. i dont hate her, i dont even dislike her. if i am calling on her choices she makes in this campaign

doesnt meant i hate her.

[frazzled]

65. I'm sorry, but why are you only picking on the hateful posts of one side?

Because as I peruse these boards, I am seeing some shocking--I'd say close to crazily racist on a few--posts from Clinton supporters regarding Obama.

I see the numbers of these posts against each candidate as being about even. Why complain only to Obama supporters? Does it have something to do with having to be nicer to a lady than a man? As a feminist, I would disagree with that.

[Danger Mouse]

67. I agree with you.

I'm just calling out my fellow Obama supporters.

[LiberalAndProud]

69. There was rather a rash of anti-Hillary OPs

when Elrond posted. It wasn't pretty. Happily, most of them are sinking into oblivion.

[dailykoff]

66. What the hell did I miss?

:shrug:

[DLnyc]

70. I agree with you, things are going way too far.

Here's my attempt at lowering the volume:

I'm sure I've posted some harsh comments, especially late Tuesday night. But some things are a little over the top.

1. Hillary did not "endorse McCain". She tried to say she would be a better candidate against McCain. I think it is bad strategy to try to fight McCain on the terrorism issue. Better, I think would be to question what 7 years of terraterraterra has gotten us. But the DLC strategy is to out-tough the Repubs. I disagree with that strategy, but I don't think that amounts to "endorsing McCain" or "being warmongers".

2. Clearly, the Clinton campaign decided to 'go negative' and, sadly, it seems to have worked, at least marginally and in the short term. But that is not such a bad thing: obviously the Rethugnicans are going to go major-major negative at some point, so it's just as well that Obama sees/shows how he's gonna handle that now. I do NOT think going negative back is the right strategy, for Obama nor for his supporters here. Standard going-negative strategy seems to be: have surrogates go more and more negative, until target finally begins to go negative back; then, complain that your opponent is being negative; at this point, most voters get fed up and stop paying attention; at that point, simple electoral tactics like machine endorsements, expensive ads, paid media spots work much better, since most voters have stopped paying attention. So the upshot is, yeah, she went negative and it works, so let's see if it can be overcome in the long run by not taking the bait (which was sort of Obama's appeal all along--that he wouldn't be dragged into 'politics as usual'.

3. Similarly for hardball tactics like FL/MI--Rethugs are gonna do that in spades, does Obama have a way of responding? His response could be a lot stronger if he (and his supporters) haven't lost the moral high ground by taking the negative bait in 2, above.

There used to be a sort of culture here on DU, it seems to me, of bringing arguments back to substantive points and not getting baited off into trading personal insults. Could be very impressive if some Obama supporters (Or Clinton supporters, for that matter) could lead the way by de-escalating some of these name-calling contests and pulling the discussion back to substantive issues.

All that said, I'm not exactly optimistic. Anger and nastiness tend to be contagious, and very few people have the skill and/or patience to de-escalate these things. I sort of thought Obama might, which is why I was pulling for him, and still am.

[VotesForWomen]

71. thank you. nt

[neverforget]

72. I donated $25 to Obama today because of their comment about Ken Starr.

I wasn't going to donate to anyone in the primary but was going to give some in the general to whoever the nominee was. I've had enough of the Hillary's campaign......I'm pissed off now.

[ShaWee]

73. If she acts outrageous then she receives outrageous posts.

It's the least she deserves.

[robbedvoter]

75. Thanks. Appreciate it. One can disagree without hatred.