Why I am even *more* convinced that Obama and Clinton will be running mates.

[Ravy]

I know that neither will be the first choice of the other. Maybe not even be in the top 100.

But this thing is going to be decided by the superdelegates.

And most superdelegates are politicians.

They will have a choice to

a) Make one camp happy with them, the other camp furious with them.

or

b) Make one camp happy with them, the other less happy.


I expect the party leaders will offer Obama a choice. Accept Hillary as your running mate in the VP slot, or become Hillary's VP and we will support you when she leaves office in 4 or 8 years and you can have the presidency on your own terms.

If Obama will not play ball with the party leaders, I expect them to swing to Clinton if she will promise to offer the VP slot to Obama at the convention in hopes that he will not decline it there. They will have to wait until she has enough pledged delegates so that they can put her over the top, though.

I know it doesn't seem fair, but after all, this is a political process.

[ProSense]

1. It will never happen! n/t

[papau]

45. I think it very likely - and indeed the intended result of the rules providing for "supers"

[surfin]

55. We must end forever bush/clinton/bush

Help us stop it now.

[thunder rising]

2. Clinton could trust Barack as VP ... but not the vice-versa. Hillary is a snake.

And she wants the Presidency.

[Ravy]

12. Yep. but I think Obama's path has a roadblock in it if he doesn't

take her, namely the superdelegates who don't want to really piss off either camp.

[Emit]

3. They could draw straws

:shrug:

[Ravy]

26. I think Obama should be offered the top spot first... and I believe

that Hillary is already dropping hints to being running mates. I think she is in *hopes* that he will reject the offer and she will then be seen as the one (of all things) who puts the party in front of personal ambition, believe it or not.

[Deja Q]

4. The current level of vitriol, on both sides, is considerable...

Can such a pairing happen for real; with Obama as VP?

I still like the notion -- realistic or not.

[GarbagemanLB]

Obama will be on top, that is for sure. No way in hell Hillary gets the top of the ticket.

[Ravy]

49. If he is, I believe it will be by his choice so he could

be practically guaranteed a nomination as president in '12 or '16 on his own terms.

[GarbagemanLB]

5. Ugh, could you imagine having the Clintons as Vice Presidents? They'd be trailing Obama wherever he

went.

[blm]

6. And there are a whole slew of supers who are tired of having to spend THEIR political capital

defending the Clintons who have never done the same for any other Democrat facing attack.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

7. Not on your life. I can't see that happening nt

[IndyOp]

8. We've compromised with bullies for decades. It is time to stop. (n/t)

[Growler]

28. Agreed!

[Ravy]

29. I don't think it will stop here.

Democrats need to win, and a Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama is the best chance to win in November.

Both camps are full of people who say they will sit at home, or vote for someone else if their person is not on the ticket.

[IndyOp]

36. Ravy - I think you are not taking into account the fact that Clinton anywhere on the ticket

will activate the GOP base like nothing and no one else can. Any Clinton, anywhere on the ticket weakens the ticket because it will bring out GOP voters in droves to neutralize any benefits that can be achieved by attracting both Clinton and Obama supporters to the polls. Please keep in mind that most Clinton voters, most Obama voters aren't nearly as passionate about their candidate as we are -- the vast majority of Clinton voters will vote for Obama if he wins the nomination and the vast majority of Obama voters would vote for Clinton if she won the nomination.

[Ravy]

50. Look at the numbers she is generating.

There may be a bit more mobilization on the other side. I think they will villanize Obama to where most will be mobilized anyway... I do see your point. But there are other points, too.

Clinton would be a great attack dog for Obama, and might draw some of the fire from Obama.

However, I think the real danger is for the Hillary supporters, who are becoming more entrenched in their support due to the divisiveness of the campaign, to become demoralized. Same goes true for Obama supporters. I don't think superdelegates will take that chance.

[AtomicKitten]

9. It will never happen.

[tekisui]

10. Hillary needs Obama to win the General.

Obama needs only the superD's to win the Primary and the General.

The SuperD's lose nothing in making Obama the nominee. They have no motivation to twist him into taking Hillary as a VP.

[Ravy]

30. The SuperDs will piss of a *lot* of Clinton supporters if they

don't force Obama to take Clinton, at least offer it... and at this point, she will accept.

[tekisui]

33. I am surprised that you think she would accept.

I could get behind it. Shit, I will get behind whatever the Dem ticket becomes.

[book_worm]

11. Hillary has effectively destroyed that

by saying not once but twice that Obama isn't qualified to be president (compared to her and McCain) how could she possibly turn around and make him VP? how would she explain that? As for Obama his campaign is about the future and Hillary represents the past. He doesn't need her baggage. If he puts a woman on it could be Barbara Boxer or Kathleen Sebilius but it won't be Hillary.

[Ravy]

15. We pay attention. Most voters don't. Bush, Sr. ravaged Reagan with

"voodoo economics" and became his VP.

[book_worm]

21. they will pay attention when McCain plays that clip over and over

in campaign ads.

[Ravy]

31. Won't make a difference.

Look at the Democratic primary turnout vs the Republican turnout. Superdelegates will want all of the Democratic turnout to come out in November, and the surest way of that is to put both candidates on the ticket.

[frazzled]

43. That was a policy difference: Bush didn't say Reagan was unqualified

We're talking about a very fundamental difference here. The reason that Hillary has blown that option is not because of rancor or vitriol, or the usual policy slams on the other person.

It is because the number one qualification for V.P. is that the person be ready to step in immediately to take over all the duties of the presidency--including being Commander in Chief--something Clinton has unequivocally said Obama is not fit for. Even before this past week, Clinton has based her entire campaign on the premise that Obama is totally inexperienced and unfit to be the president. In that case, he would be unfit to be her Vice President.

[Ravy]

51. I think it is more likely to be the other way around.

Obama in the top spot, with VP Hillary repeatedly saying "Well, with me on the ticket, we will be ready on day one."

The other (if Obama chooses to be VP) will be even easier... "Barack will get a lot of good experience as my VP"

[DJ13]

17. by saying not once but twice that Obama isn't qualified to be president

She's said it in more than FIVE seperate speeches now.

Its become her boilerplate stump speech.

:mad:

[Ravy]

34. I know. But she can say it was in the height of the campaign.

Trust me, it won't make a difference come November if they are running mates.

[goclark]

18. Barbara is my choice

I saw her speak today and she was so classy.

I can see it now - OBAMA/BOXER

I like the sound of it,it has a nice "Ring,Ring,Ring"

[pbca]

13. I hope Obama rejects it in total

He can run in 2012 when Hillary loses in 08

[Ravy]

19. He may choose to take that chance... but I don't think that he will.

He won't want to piss off the party elders. It will make a 2012 harder.

Better to be the VP than that, I think. But I honestly think he would accept the top spot.

[pbca]

25. I hope he does not - Hillary can't be trusted

as VP, I think she would undermine him in an attempt to get him out of the way.

With him as VP, I still don't vote for Hillary and wait for 2012

The superdelegates piss me off if they force this compromise.

[anigbrowl]

14. I think Hillary would tarnish his campaign and make him look weak.

Some people would get pissed off if she has to drop out, but the balance of negative attacks have been from her. For every vote she locks in there's another Republican tht will hold their nose and pull the lever for McCain, I feel.

[Oleladylib]

16. ummmmmmm..looking weak..no one can make him look weak..does it on his own

[Oleladylib]

20. Sounds great but I think she will choose Biden or Dodd.

[Ravy]

35. I am pretty sure that the superdelegates won't want her to do that.

Both camps are divided enough, and for long enough that a good number of them will bolt if their candidate is not on the ticket. And I think the party elders will do anything they can to eliminate that possibility.

[DJ13]

22. No, in fact Im not sure she should remain in the Party

We dont need a Rovian Republican lite Democrat on our ticket.

[pbca]

27. agreed n/t

[Ravy]

37. We need a ticket that can win. Period. nt

[Zachstar]

23. Why do I have to keep saying it?

If one candidate becomes the other's candidate there will be alot of bad blood as people will be betrayed.

There is no damn Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama !!!

The ONLY major player that needs to be considered for a VP right now is Edwards.

[Ravy]

40. Not as betrayed as one camp will feel being left off the ticket.

Both camps are becoming more entrenched against the other. Putting them in the same room and making them play nice is a tried and true tradition.

[Zachstar]

41. Left off the ticket?

If anyone from both camps think they are "Entitled" to a VP slot they are bigger fools than I thought.

The only Neutral (Enough) VP choice in my view is Edwards. Both camps like him...

[Ravy]

48. Did you not see all the posts of glee the other night when MSNBC said

Obama had shown enough strength now to be guaranteed *at least* the VP slot?

Do you think that Clinton does not have nearly the same strength?

I have been wrong plenty before in politics, believe me. But I also have been right quite a bit.

[Zachstar]

52. There are no damn guarantees for VP.

Unless we are going back to the old system of loser of the other party becomes VP...

So no Obama nor Clinton are "guaranteed" the VP spot and I think it is silly to even talk about that. Obama is not going to want to have anything to do with Clinton after this and Clinton becoming Obama's VP will act like a massive speed brake.

Edwards is the clear choice here for a "Middle Ground" However, For Obama I think he will make it a dream ticket. Simply because of how their stances on issues will create a resonance that turns a wave into a massive wave of change.

I will let the Clinton Supporters say what Edwards will do as Clinton VP as they will know better obviously.

I think there is a greater chance of an Clinton/Paul ticket than Obama/Clinton. Or vice versa.

[peacebird]

24. Ravy-gravy - must you continue posting this exact same premise every night?

:wtf:

Hillary has nothing positive to add to an Obama ticket. He will need someone with military service I think.

[Ravy]

38. This is the second time I posted ever on the subject, and I posted on two different nights.

I am allowed 3 per night, and I can post whatever I wish within the rules..

Would you prefer another "Hillary should be kicked from the party" or "Obama is a traitor" thread?

I don't think Obama will have a choice, because he can't get to 2025 without more superdelegates. You should ask yourself, what are they waiting for? I think *this* is what they are waiting for.

[peacebird]

42. dear god I hope not, because it would weaken Obama as Pres candidate and there is NO WAY Hillary

can win the general election even with him

[LiberalAndProud]

32. It seems less likely every day, IMHO.

[Ravy]

39. Well, the more divided the party over this, the more likely I think it becomes.

And the division is getting more entrenched every day.

[Georgie_92]

44. Never, to much damage has been done

they can't stand eachother.

[Ravy]

47. I know. And their camps are getting to be the same way...

which makes me believe it is more likely that the party elders will not want to leave either off of the ticket.

[fujiyama]

46. Maybe Hillary could help him in NJ

but she'd be a drag in many states and would be enough to mobilize the GOP base.

Obama would benefit her more as VP than the other way around, but she knows he'd outshine her. And in a way, I'm not sure he'd want to tarnish his image or future chances by getting too close to the Clintons. He also might not be confident she could win. And even if they do...then what? Will she give him much responsibility or sideline him like in ways Bill did to Al by going to Hillary? I'm sure he wouldn't want to be like Edwards this time either....looking a bit like a has been...I see maybe one or two other Dems that might make a good presidential candidate in the future...otherwise, Obama is still the future of this party...

[andym]

53. I think that something like this will have to happen.

Either that, or they'll need to pick a neutral well-known third party like Gore.

[adoraz]

54. hillary as VP would do no good

whatsoever. it would be a very bad idea for Obama to do. He already needs to fight off the racists this campaign, but fighting off racists and sexists at the same time would be suicidal. so many obama supporters would no longer vote if Hillary was VP.

I am positive that having her as VP would do more harm than good.

[surfin]

56. What do you think the odds are for this ticket in this crazy year

Obama/Webb vrs McClain/Clinton.

If McClain wins, what are the odds that Hillary would move to impeach him.

[BringBigDogBack]

57. Doubtful.

Hillary would ad nothing but a lightning rod to the ticket.

As you said, they're politicians, not stupid.