'I believe that I’ve done that. Sen. McCain has done that and you’ll have to ask Sen. Obama'

[bigtree]

In a Cabinet-style setting, surrounded by retired military leaders, Sen. Hillary Clinton said the public should ask whether Democratic presidential rival Barack Obama has met the criteria needed to become the nation’s commander in chief.

“I think that since we now know Sen. (John) McCain will be the nominee for the Republican Party, national security will be front and center in this election. We all know that. And I think it’s imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold,” the New York senator told reporters crowded into an infant’s bedroom-sized hotel conference room in Washington.

“I believe that I’ve done that. Certainly, Sen. McCain has done that and you’ll have to ask Sen. Obama with respect to his candidacy,” she said.

Calling McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee a good friend and a “distinguished man with a great history of service to our country,” Clinton said, “Both of us will be on that stage having crossed that threshold. That is a critical criterion for the next Democratic nominee to deal with.”



Unveiling proposals to refocus the U.S. war effort on Afghanistan, including seeking a commitment from allies to join in increasing troop strength to fight a rebuilding Taliban and other terrorist forces, Clinton noted the Times Square explosion near a military recruitment office was a reminder that it was “imperative that we be vigilant as we continue to face threats at home and abroad” and she promised to provide law enforcement and the military what they need to protect the public.

“There are certain critical issues that voters always look to in a general election. National security experience (and) the qualifications to be commander-in-chief are front and center. They always have been. They always will be,” she said.




http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/03/clinton_ive_crossed_commanderi.html

[Muttocracy]

1. wait, what the heck is this threshold?

Not in the constitution. And somehow conveniently falls between her and Obama?

[bigtree]

5. It's a judgment we'll have to decide for ourselves.

So, she has an opinion about that. Surprised?

[Muttocracy]

11. I'm sure she thinks she's qualified.

And on the commander-in-chief issue, it's easy to argue McCain is qualified (judgement might be a different matter). But she's not explaining what this threshold is or how she's met it. Just declaring that she meets some mysterious threshold? That's not helpful to me.

[bigtree]

13. I understand. She hasn't really managed to cross the threshhold of that question

What specifically is the threshold? I happen to believe judgment could trump experience, in some cases. Obviously I don't in the case of Obama and Clinton, but it can be reasonably argued.

[pinkpops]

6. You have to be at least 80 yrs old or have a husband who used

to be president available to tell you what to do.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. Ready For War On Day One!

God forbid.

[hedgehog]

30. That slogan needs to have its own post! nt

[peacebird]

3. so she's going to continue to trash Obama and puff up McCain. Sweet.Doing McCains dirty work for him

so he can appear "above the fray"

How "special"


:eyes:

[bigtree]

4. she won't 'puff up McCain' in the general election

. . . as our nominee

[peacebird]

7. and if she is NOT our nominee - the damage will already be done

she has HER interests front & center - screw the interests of our COUNTRY.

I find her actions beyond detestable.

[bigtree]

10. that depends on how much weight voters give to primary campaign prattle

I think you're overreacting to the politics. Clinton intends to knock Obama out of this thing. He's not going to get an easy coronation.

[ossman]

8. No, they'll just use her own ads and words against her.

Genius.

[bigtree]

12. she's insulating herself from the McCain sympathy vote

standard stuff. "We're friends, but . . ."

neophytes.

[elixir]

87. BigTree, that's why I love ya', man. Bringing it home to reality town.

[Inuca]

24. Of course she won't, BUT

it may be too late by then. Whatever that threshold she talks about is, who do you think would have an easier time stepping over it, her or McCain? Instead of focusing on his weaknesses, she emphasizes HIS STRENGTHS! Which, when compared to McCain are also HER WEAKNESSES! She is creating a discussion that is bad for democrats, no matter who the eventual nominee will be. Yes, I know security is important, and the republicans will try to beat us with it every each way they can think of. But she is framing the whole discussion in a way that is incredibly wrong and short-sighted. She is so obsessively focused on getting the nomination no matter what and how, that she seems incapable of thinking (or caring) of what happens after. In spite of everything, I just cannot believe she is doing this! Over and over and over again.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

52. Here's what we're asking YOU Hillary: Why are you doing Rove's dirty work?

[fujiyama]

9. If she wins the nomination

I'm thinking of skipping the vote for presidency or writing in a candidate. This is beyond the pale. Then again, she respects McCain's experience so much...maybe I should vote for him over her...

[underpants]

22. Her advisors are following the DC talking points (read: RNC)

national security is always a factor but so is the economy and now Constitutional issues

This is a very bad sign for her campaign.

[Upton]

64. I here ya

[FrenchieCat]

14. She has done what? I don't get it.

HILLARY’S Commander In Chief Experience - The Red Phone Test

LISTING HILLARY CLINTON'S RED PHONE EXPERIENCE
ON NATIONAL SECURITY CRISIS

Tracing Hillary Clinton's '35 Years' of Experience

All Things Considered, January 24, 2008  When Hillary Clinton makes a campaign appearance, she almost certainly will highlight her experience — 35 years, she says — as one of her qualifications for president.

But Clinton is a little less specific when it comes to describing what exactly she was doing in the years before she became a U.S. senator in 2001.

Suzanne Goldenberg is author of a new book about Clinton, Madam President, and a U.S. correspondent for the British newspaper The Guardian.

Goldenberg says it's difficult to see how Clinton calculates her 35 years of public service, since her fulltime job for many years was working for a corporate law firm in Arkansas.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18391632

After earning her JD from Yale, Clinton worked as a member of the impeachment inquiry staff in DC. In 1974 she failed the DC Bar Exam and decided to move to Arkansas where Bill was running for congress. He did not succeed in this campaign. Both of them took jobs with the Arkansas University, Fayetteville Law School. By 1977, Bill had won the Arkansas Attorney General campaign and Hillary had earned a job with the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock. She continued to be involved politically, urging new laws to recognize children's rights, but her law practice focused on Patent Infringement and Intellectual Property law, though she rarely set foot in a court room. http://doubledemon.newsvine.com/_news/2008/02/06/1282777-obamas-experience-vs-clintons-experience?groupId=1675

Children’s Defense Fund -

Hillary Clinton & the Children's Defense Fund
http://www.peterglenshaw.com/peter_glenshaw_weblog/2008/01/hillary-clinton.html

How Hillary Clinton Betrayed the Children's Defense Fund for Political Gain:
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/034

While Clinton touts her decision to come out of law school and work not for Wall Street but rather for the Children's Defense Fund, the truth is that she spent only a year there. (And then omitted her mentor Marian Wright Edelman from among the 400 others she mentions in the acknowledgemets of her autobiography because Edelman had broken with her when Bill Clinton abolished the federal welfare saftey net in 1996).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marc-cooper/hillarys-5-million-dump_b_85534.html

She was twice named to the list of “The 100 Most Influential Lawyers in America.” She also represented and later served on the board of Arkansas businesses including TCBY ("Too Good to Be Yoghurt"), and Wal-Mart. As First Lady of Arkansas for twelve years, she chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee, co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, and served on the boards of the Arkansas Children's Hospital, Legal Services, and the Children's Defense Fund. Mrs. Clinton wrote a weekly newspaper column entitled "Talking It Over."
http://www.firstladies.org/biographies/firstladies.aspx?biography=43

Wal-Mart

Hillary Clinton and Wal-Mart: A Love Story
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0207-34.htm

Wal-Mart’s First Lady
Hillary’s Past Belies Her Support of Labor
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0021,harkavy,15052,5.html

WalMart Board - 1990

Clinton campaign downplays a large part of her career
By MATT STEARNS
McClatchy-Tribune

WASHINGTON — To hear Hillary Clinton talk, she's spent her entire career putting her Yale Law School degree to work for the common good.

She routinely tells voters that she's "been working to bring positive change to people's lives for 35 years." She told a voter in New Hampshire: "I've spent so much of my life in the nonprofit sector."

The overall portrait is of a lifelong, selfless do-gooder. The whole story is more complicated — and less flattering.
Clinton worked at the Children's Defense Fund for less than a year, and that's the only full-time job in the nonprofit sector she's ever had. She also worked briefly as a law professor.

Clinton spent the bulk of her career — 15 of those 35 years — at one of Arkansas' most prestigious corporate law firms, where she represented big companies and served on corporate boards....
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/politics/5510369.html

Rose Law Firm

Clinton joined Rose in 1976, becoming the venerable firm's first full female partner in 1979, and she continued to work for Rose after husband Bill became governor of Arkansas.

Rose Law Firm focuses primarily on corporate litigation and transactions. She worked primarily on patent infringement and intellectual property litigation, though she did not do much court work. Rose Law Firm is well entrenched in Arkansas' business and political institutions.
http://doubledemon.newsvine.com/_news/2008/02/06/1282777-obamas-experience-vs-clintons-experience?groupId=1675

the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, headed by First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton

First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton was charged with coming up with a comprehensive plan to provide universal health care for all Americans, which was to be a cornerstone of the administration's first-term agenda.

Hillary Clinton's leading role in this project was unprecedented for a presidential spouse.<11><12> This unusual decision by President Clinton to put his wife in charge of the project has been attributed to several factors, including the President's desire to emphasize his personal commitment to the enterprise.<12>

The First Lady's role in the secret proceedings of the Health Care Task Force also sparked litigation in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit, in relation to the Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA) which requires openness in government. The Clinton White House argued that the Recommendation Clause in Article II of the U.S. Constitution would make it unconstitutional to apply the procedural requirements of FACA to Hillary's participation in the meetings of the Task Force. Some constitutional experts argued to the court that such a legal theory was not supported by the text, history, or structure of the Constitution.<13>Ultimately, Hillary Clinton won the litigation when the D.C. Circuit ruled narrowly that the First Lady of the United States can be deemed a government official (and not a mere private citizen) for purposes of not having to comply with the procedural requirements of FACA.<14>

In 1993, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, along with several other groups, filed a lawsuit against Hillary Clinton and Donna Shalala? over closed-door meetings related to the health care plan. The AAPS sued to gain access to the list of members of the task force. Judge Royce C. Lamberth found in favor of the plaintiffs and awarded $285,864 to the AAPS for legal costs; Lamberth also harshly criticized the Clinton administration and Clinton aide Ira Magaziner in his ruling.<15> Subsequently, a federal appeals court overturned the award and the initial findings on the basis that Magaziner and the administration had not acted in bad faith.<16>

Starting on September 28, 1993, Hillary Clinton appeared for several days of testimony before five congressional committees on health care.<9> Opponents of the bill organized against it before it was presented to the Democratic-controlled Congress on November 20, 1993.<9> The bill was a complex proposal running more than 1,000 pages, the core element of which was an enforced mandate for employers to provide health insurance coverage to all of their employees through competitive but closely-regulated health maintenance organizations (HMOs).

The 1994 mid-term election became a "referendum on big government — Hillary Clinton had launched a massive health-care reform plan that wound up strangled by its own red tape."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Clinton_health_care_plan

Ireland

The Facts
Chris Thornton, a political reporter for the Belfast Telegraph, said that Hillary Clinton's visits to northern Ireland contributed to the "mood music" that made an eventual settlement possible, but were hardly key to reaching an agreement. "Would we have reached a settlement without that kind of stuff? Yes. Would we have got one without the intervention of Bill Clinton and George Mitchell? No."

Hillary is making a lot more of her Northern Ireland role on the campaign trail than she did in her memoir "Living History." As the Boston Globe recently noted, her stories of bringing Protestant and Catholic women together have become more dramatic with each retelling. The claim that she brought Catholics and Protestants together "for the first time" seems dubious. This would not be the first time that she has mixed up her chronology.

The Pinocchio Test
Hillary Clinton seems to be overstating her significance as a catalyst in the Northern Ireland peace process, which was more symbolic than substantive. On the other hand, she did play a helpful role at the margins, by encouraging organizations like Vital Voices, a women's group that takes a stand against extremism. One Pinocchio for exaggeration.


http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/01/clinton_and_northern_ireland.html

China

During a 1995 visit to Beijing, at a time when her husband's administration was trying to press China on human rights, Sen. Clinton made a speech condemning abuses.

Kosovo

In May of 1999, she was in Macedonia visiting refugee camps near the Kosovo border and meeting with Macedonia's president and prime minister.

Sources with knowledge of her visit say she discussed the refugees' plight with those leaders. It's not clear how much she helped since CNN reported at the time that Macedonia reopened its border to Kosovar refugees before Clinton's visit.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/06/clinton.foreign.fact/

Senator From New York

Upon entering the United States Senate, Clinton maintained a low public profile, built relationships with senators from both parties and forged alliances with religiously-inclined senators by becoming a regular participant in the Senate Prayer Breakfast.

Clinton has served on five Senate committees: Committee on Budget (2001–2002), Committee on Armed Services (since 2003), Committee on Environment and Public Works (since 2001),<207> Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (since 2001) and Special Committee on Aging.
She is also a Commissioner of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (since 2001).

Following the September 11, 2001 attacks, Clinton sought to obtain funding for the recovery efforts in New York City and security improvements in her state. Working with New York's senior senator, Charles Schumer, she was instrumental in quickly securing $21 billion in funding for the World Trade Center site's redevelopment. She subsequently took a leading role in investigating the health issues faced by 9/11 first responders.

Clinton voted for the USA Patriot Act in October 2001. In 2005, when the act was up for renewal, she worked to address some of the civil liberties concerns with it, before voting in favor of a compromise renewed act in March 2006 that gained large majority support.

Clinton strongly supported the 2001 U.S. military action in Afghanistan, saying it was a chance to combat terrorism while improving the lives of Afghan women who suffered under the Taliban government.

Clinton voted in favor of the October 2002 Iraq War Resolution.

In September 2007 she voted in favor of a Senate resolution calling on the State Department to label the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps "a foreign terrorist organization", which passed 76-22.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

she opposes the international treaty to ban land mines.

She voted against the Feinstein-Leahy amendment last September restricting U.S. exports of cluster bombs to countries that use them against civilian-populated areas.

She opposes restrictions on U.S. arms transfers and police training to governments that engage in gross and systematic human rights abuses, such as Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Israel, Pakistan, Cameroon and Chad, to name only a few.

She has challenged the credibility of Amnesty International and other human rights groups that criticize policies of the United States and its allies.
Mrs. Clinton has been one of the Senate’s most outspoken critics of the United Nations, even serving as the featured speaker at rallies outside U.N. headquarters in July 2004 and last summer to denounce the world body.

She was one of the most prominent critics of the International Court of Justice for its landmark 2004 advisory ruling that the Fourth Geneva Conventions on the Laws of War is legally binding on all signatory nations.

She condemned the United Nations’ judicial arm for challenging the legality of Israel’s separation barrier in the occupied West Bank and sponsored a Senate resolution “urging no further action by the United Nations to delay or prevent the construction of the security fence.”

Mrs. Clinton has shown little regard for the danger from proliferation of nuclear weapons, not only opposing the enforcement of U.N. Security Council resolutions challenging Pakistan, Israel and India’s nuclear weapons programs but supporting the delivery of nuclear-capable missiles and jet fighters to these countries. This past fall she voted to suspend important restrictions on U.S. nuclear cooperation with countries that violate the Non-Proliferation Treaty.

At the same time, she insists that the prospect of Iran’s developing nuclear weapons “must be unacceptable to the entire world,” since challenging the nuclear monopoly of the United States and its allies in the region would somehow “shake the foundation of global security to its very core.”

She accused the Bush administration of not taking the threat of a nuclear Iran seriously enough, criticized the administration for allowing European nations to take the lead in pursuing a diplomatic solution and insisted that the United States should make it clear that military options were still being actively considered.
http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0309-23.htm

[shraby]

15. Explain to me what she has done that qualifies her?

She's had tea and crumpets with people from other countries. That's a qualification?

[Jersey Devil]

21. She is as qualified to be President as Pickles

It's called "experience by osmosis" or maybe by injection.

[bigtree]

26. how about Eleanor Roosevelt?

. . . or any First Lady elected to the U.S. Senate you can think of.

[americanstranger]

16. As I said earlier tonight on my blog:

Yeah, you crossed a threshold all right, lady. Only it's the 'Throw The Democratic Party Under The Bus' threshold. The 'Capitulating The 2008 Presidential Campaign Issues To A Crazy, Corrupt Old Fuck Who Wants To Use Up All The Bombs In The World Then Make More Bombs And Use Them All Up, Too' threshold. The 'Throw The '08 Election So I Can Have A Shot In 2012' threshold.

http://www.blah3.com/article.php?story=20080306195215718

---

- as

[bigtree]

17. Nonsense, it's Obama, himself, who's been preaching 'unity' with the republicans

. . . and admonishing us all to avoid 'demonizing' them (while his campaign regularly demonizes Hillary Clinton)

[americanstranger]

68. But isn't Clinton following that admonition?

If you're complaining about Obama's advice not to 'demonize' Republicans, you'd better listen to Hillary. She sounds like she's the one taking that advice, doesn't she? Her comments about Gramps McCrazy make it sounds like she's following Obama's advice to the letter - only at the expense of a fellow Dem.

If it's such horrible advice, why is Clinton listening to it?

- as

[angie_love]

18. shes such a fuckin ugly person. I always gave her the benefit of the doubt, but shes really proven

herself a really ugly human being. If she runs again in 2012, I promise you I will never vote for her.

[BigDDem]

33. "shes such a fuckin ugly person"

Ladies and gentlemen...the new politics of "HOPE!" and "CHANGE!"

Lovely.

[bigtree]

37. raw hatred, c/o 'angie love'

[angie_love]

41. Yeah and you repeated yourself like 5 times on this thread. Get alittle creative.

She is an ugly person, I stand by what I said. Loud and clear.

[BigDDem]

49. "She is an ugly person, I stand by what I said."

You represent your candidate very well.
Congratulations.

[angie_love]

74. Unfortunately you don't. LOL

[still_one]

19. hillary, you and mccain deserve each other, and neither of you will EVER get my vote /nt

[shadowknows69]

20. Is anyone asking the troops?

I give two fucks what the war pigs think.

[olkaz]

23. Is this unambiguous enough?

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/14809.html

These guys said it better than I can.

It's clear now. Hillary is willing to promote the Republican candidate to buoy her own chances in the Democratic primary.

Seriously, as unambiguous as it was before, now it's just fact.

Clinton over party, every time.

[gort]

50. She has tossed the turd into the punchbowl

My Opinion:

She knows she can't get the Delegate Count, so she seems to be willing to split the party and bully it into making her the nominee. Failing that, she will do a Lieberman and endorse McCain hoping that his age, temper and health will limit him to one term. She will then have to wait only four years to run again as opposed to 8 if Obama wins.

Just my opinion, I've already been told I am an asshole.

[dysfunctional press]

25. what has shrillary done to "cross that threshold"?

what a fucking twat of a lying bitch she really is.

[dionysus]

27. and you applaud this shit? you should be ashamed....

[bigtree]

29. ashamed by you? By who? Who do you suppose is 'shaming' me?

I'm 47 years old, and, I have more than enough sense to recognize campaign prattle. That's what the reaction by the Obama camp to this smart political move by Clinton has been. Prattle.

Fact is, she (and Obama), as the nominee, would benefit from distancing themselves from the inevitable personal attacks on McCain which stray beyond his record and proposals. "Sen. McCain is my friend, but, he's wrong . . ." That will take away any exploitation of the sympathy support McCain will get for his heroic service in Vietnam. It's smart politics, at the expense of Obama, who Hillary Clinton expects to defeat.

[dionysus]

38. hookay... let's be clear that you support hillary endorsing mccain over barack...

and btw, hillary won't be the nominee. she's a shitty DLC crap candidate.

[bigtree]

42. I don't buy the Obama spin that she 'endorsed' him

I think the proponents of that argument look hysterical.

[dionysus]

45. you're picking nits... she is clearly saying the she and mccain are both fit for the office.

and that obama is not. don't be obtuse.

[bigtree]

47. she says Obama has to defend himself. That's not obtuse, it's politics.

If he can't, it's his own fault. I think his supporters are concerned that he could actually get left out of that club if voters consider the FACT of his lesser experience.

[dionysus]

55. so just to be clear... you support hillary praising mccain?

yes or no?

[bigtree]

58. you can't read? I gave my answer. I approve of what she's said.

I'm not going to adopt your spin.

[dionysus]

60. you "answered" the question like your girl... yes or no?

[bigtree]

66. go fish

Her remarks are a political strategy to insulate her from the inevitable sympathy McCain will get in the face of the certain insults to his service which will come. It does not prevent Hillary Clinton from aggressively confronting him. It won't be seen as personal, if she can manage to portray herself as a 'friend'.

As for the qualification/experience statements, I think they were accurate, as far as Sen. Clinton and McCain are concerned. But, Obama has the burden to defend his OWN level of experience, or to explain why the 'judgment' he's touting is a better choice. Hillary Clinton has NO obligation to carry his water, at this point. She hasn't said, outright, that he's less experienced, she's insinuating it and forcing him to defend the point. It's hardball politics in a close race. I see no problem with it at all. Obama has to be able to stand on his own feet on the 'experience issue. He, and his supporters, need to get over their 'outrage' and recognize they have to mend their own house on this issue, and, not expect Hillary Clinton to cover for them.

[dionysus]

73. so let me get this straight, you support her praising mccain?

yes or no?

christ, you can't answer an easy fucking question.

Do you, YES OR NO, support hillary repeatedly praising McCain at the expense of a democrat?

[bigtree]

77. you are dense. I'm not going to speak out of your mouth or from your perspective

deal with it. you got your answer.

[dionysus]

79. so you can't answer.

you're endorsing GOP gutter tactics and can't acknowledge it with a one-word answer?

just like "your girl", morally bankrupt...

[bigtree]

81. Oh, I answered all right. Just not in your insulting, presumptuous, Obama-defending vernacular

deal with it.

[dionysus]

84. and thanks for playing "i support GOP tactics"... what does he win?

a mccain presidency....

[bigtree]

93. It's YOUR candidate who's spent most of this campaign stroking republicans

. . . in a shallow attempt to get their votes in OUR Democratic primary.

[burythehatchet]

89. trying to get a straight answer from anyone associated with her is not going to be fruitful

Her campaign staff on this board reflect her perfectly. Lying and deceitful schmucks.

[Fire_brand]

28. Maybe she's trying to get on the ticket as McCain't vp

:shrug:

[bigtree]

32. that'll be kinda hard

. . . after she's whooped up on him as the nominee of our party.

[The Stranger]

31. She is becoming a greater danger to the Party than McCain.

At least with McCain, you know he is a pro-war Republican. With her, she may be McClainton.

[bigtree]

35. Obama's weak responses and self-imposed elevation of these soft statements

into full-blown confrontations with the rival he claims to be defeating, threatens to harm his candidacy. The 'party', however, will be just fine.

[The Stranger]

39. I think he has made it clear with his voting record he is against this lying, tortuous, war crime.

Hillary not only cast her vote in the Senate to send thousands of young American men and women to die in Iraq, now she appears poised with her little cabal of generals on cameras, to do more of the same.

And this is a war crime overwhelmingly opposed by the American people and the base of the Party.

The "party" will be just fine -- without her as its nominee.

[bigtree]

51. got to the Senate and voted EXACTLY like Clinton on Iraq.

and, he refused to show up and vote for the Iran bill he and his supporters are criticizing Hillary Clinton for.

That's TWO issues he claims he's on the opposite side of Clinton which he DIDN'T VOTE FOR.

[workinclasszero]

34. How many here don't think Senator Clinton would back President McCain

1000 percent on a war with Iran?

Hillary is a warmonger and a dem traitor to boot!

[bigtree]

36. that's the despicable smear the Obama camp has been trying to sell all along

I don't think folks are buying it.

[The Stranger]

40. Maybe you missed the headline to the original post.

She has essentially done it already.

[bigtree]

44. twisting.

distorting.

politics.

[The Stranger]

48. It really is getting hard to escape what is going on. You can have Hillary play victim for only so

long. The fact is she is saying she and McCain are qualified for more war (crimes), and that Obama is not. I don't know how else to interpret her own words.

We don't want this in the Party. Come on.

[bigtree]

53. she's clearly positioning herself to run a campaign against McCain with that statement

at this point, at Obama's expense. She has no obligation at all to him to prop him up, since she believes she can win the nomination.

And, our party WANTS to win the White House. Obama can't expect Hillary Clinton to carry his water before he's actually defeated her.

[The Stranger]

57. She is running a campaign as an independent. She cannot win the majority of delegates.

She cannot face McCain because she lost the majority of delegates from her party.

[bigtree]

59. yeah yeah

sell that stuff to your own camp. I'm not buying it.

[burythehatchet]

91. Hillary is warmonger and a Dem traiter. That's the kindest thing I can say about her n/t

[Bright Eyes]

43. Ain't the DLC great, folks?

Anything to win!

In case I need it: :sarcasm:

[bigtree]

46. as if Obama isn't doing ALL he can.

His advisers don't seem as concerned with the ethics of all of the Clinton campaign's 'tactics'. They clearly said yesterday that they intend to emulate them.

[Bright Eyes]

54. Link?

[bigtree]

61. heh

"If she wants to make issues like ethics and disclosure and law firms and real estate deals and all that stuff issues, as I've said before I don't know whey they'd want to go there, but I guess that's where they'll take the race,'' David Axelrod said.

"The vetting of Hillary Clinton has yet to start,'' Axelrod said.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/north-america/the-dream-ticket-1307988.html

[Bright Eyes]

71. Vetting?

Vetting: to appraise, verify, or check for accuracy, authenticity, validity, etc.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vetting

How is checking for the accuracy of Senator Clinton's attacks, equal to "emulating" Hillary Clinton's Rovian tactics?

[bigtree]

80. tit-for-tat

not so hard to understand what they were saying (or what they ultimately did in pressing their 'tax return' theme). We'll see what they have in store next, not to defend their candidate's 'experience', but to tear Hillary Clinton down. It's transparent, and I don't believe most folks are as naive as you're posturing as here.

[Bright Eyes]

69. wrong spot-self delete.

[redqueen]

56. No... no, they're really, really not.

[Upton]

62. If it looks like a Republican, if it acts like a Republican

it's Hillary Clinton.

[Buzz Clik]

76. No shit. For the second time, she is swinging hard to the right.

Why would an undecided Democrat with a brain consider her to be a reasonable alternative when she is constantly drawing parallels between herself and McCain?

It's becoming clearer by the day: Hillary Clinton wants to be George Bush. Or is it Karl Rove?

[rucky]

63. You're proud of this? n/t

[bigtree]

75. why do I have to be proud? I think the reaction to it by Obama supporters is hysterical.

Your candidate needs to carry his own water on the issue of his 'experience'. It looks to me like Hillary Clinton is positioning him out of the race with NcCain, and setting herself up as the better choice. That's standard politics. The 'outrage' which is coming from Obama's supporters smells like fear of Clinton actually convincing voters he doesn't have the experience to match up with McCain in the general election. That's what you folks should be working on, not this hysteria over Hillary Clinton's positioning herself for a general election campaign against McCain.

[rucky]

85. Do you think Clinton can out-experience McCain?

it's boneheaded for her to run on this issue. It's not her strong point, either, and that will become apparent in the GE.

productive discussion here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4945976&mesg_id=4945976

[bigtree]

95. naw, but I think she can better withstand the scrutiny than Obama, at this point.

I think Obama can still make the argument that his 'judgment' trumps experience, especially with McCain (less with Hillary Clinton). But, I really haven't seen him make that argument effectively yet. Like I say, I think the argument can be made.

[PerfectSage]

65. Bullshit

Go read the biographies of Alexander the Great, Hannibal, Julius Ceasar. Gustavus Adolphus, Napoleon and Genghis Khan. All of them were at their peak when they were young. Only Genghis Khan was still good as an old man.

Actually the older you are the more your generalship skills decline.

Just look at the generalship of Hillary and Obama in this campaign. Youth beats experience.

[ecstatic]

67. And you're going to sit there and say you approve of this?

Do you love Lieberman too?

[bigtree]

90. do you eat shit?

[Exilednight]

70. 'I believe that I’ve done that."

She also believed her husband wasn't having an affair.

[burythehatchet]

86. That simply cannot be true

She's been cleaning his dick for decades. She's a hollow, empty, deceitful, manipulative piece of mf'n shit.

[Buzz Clik]

72. "I will be a good president, as will Sen. McCain. Obama? Not so much." What the hell is she doing?

Over and over again she ranks Obama third among the contenders. She has crossed the line AGAIN!

[Tom Rinaldo]

92. She said nothing of the sort

Of course Clinton attempted to influence primary voters to support her over Obama with an argument that she is already perceived by the general public to meet some "threshold" to be Commander in Chief while Obama still needs to definitively make that case to the public; hence electoral advantage to Hillary. It obviously wasn't praise for Obama and she did acknowledge that McCain is already credible to the public regarding the credentials expected of a Commander in Chief. But regarding the latter especially she was only stating the obvious. McCain needs no boost in that area. He is already near universally viewed, fairly or not, as a foreign policy heavy weight with strong national security crdentials, who is tough enough to defend America in a crisis, having survived for years as a P.O.W.

Clinton did contrast how Obama is currently perceived by the electorate as a seasoned leader unfavorably with how McCain is currently perceived by the electorate as a seasoned leader. There is no denying that, but she hinged it on perceptions in the context of who has a relative electoral advantage. She pointed out how important it is that Democrats run a candidate who the public will accept as capable of being Commander in Chief, and of course in the abstract no one can argue that point against her. To point that out was hard politics, no doubt about it, but not below the belt in my opinion.

That is the challenge Obama will face as our nominee with the general public, an audition for the next Commander in Chief. If he passes that audition he would win the Presidency. If he doesn't he would lose the Presidency. I really think bottom line it would come down to that when all is said and done. Clinton makes the case that there is another less risky choice, and Obama will make the case that she is wrong.

I think Obama will make a better President than McCain but I think McCain makes a better candidate than Obama. I think McCain's credentials make it easier for him to win over undecided voters than do Obama's credentials. I do not think McCain is more qualified to be President than Obama, but I think his surface credentials are more impressive and that puts us at a strategic disadvantage in the General Election if Obama is our candidate.

And in so saying I am not endorsing McCain for President or claiming he would be a good President. I do believe that most Americans now see him as being better prepared to be Commander in Chief than either Clinton or Obama, and that more Americans now see Clinton better prepared to be Commander in Chief than Obama.

[grantcart]

97. Really very disappointed in you Tom up until now I thought you maintained

a certain intellectual independence in your support of the Senator.

This isn't about attacking Sen. Obama. It is about laying the ground work for 2012. If she wanted to attack Obama when the tipping point in delegate lead had passed - and with Senator Obama actually increasing his delegate lead on this Sen. Clinton's best week on the primary calendar it would be odd.

She is trying to lay the foundation for her candidacy by controlling the narrative of why Obama loses (if he does) and to give Sen McCain enough gravitas and enough partisan damage to Obama that he loses the GE.

This has nothing to do with winning the nomination. That is over.

In the meantime Clinton is amassing a huge warchest (which she used very sparingly in Ohio and Texas) and is likely to end the campaign with $20 million or more in her primary fund and $ 29 million in her GE fund. Now what might she be able to do with that.

Sen. Obama leads in

Delegates
Votes
Gov/Senator endorsements
Primaries/caucuses
money
donors..

She cannot make up 100 delegate lead with district proportionality. She made up none this week.

So this unambiguous double standard is being stretched out for only one reason 2012. Raise more money, inflict the kind of damage that is helpful to Sen. McCain.

Shame on you Senator Clinton.

And shame on all of those who apologize for it.

Just fucking shame on you.

[zulchzulu]

78. Not having NSA or other security clearance while First Lady makes you experienced as...

...Bimbo Patrol Control Freak?

Shit, she even failed at that! She is a TURNCOAT. Benedict Arnold would be proud.

[bigtree]

88. That's an argument which will appeal to the creeps who post their Hillary hatred here

. . . but, most folks see right through your exploitation of Bill Clinton's private sex life for your petty political argument and purposes, and, are appalled by the invasion of their privacy which originated with right-wing hypocrites and their attempt to destroy our Democratic presidency and our Democratic agenda.

[burythehatchet]

82. HOW THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE THAT?????

HOW IN THE FUCKING HELL HAVE YOU DONE THAT YOU LYING SACK!!!

[ProSense]

83. "Hillary is NUTS"

Olbermann: "Hillary is NUTS" (Video)

Warlord

[marions ghost]

94. WHY

does she keep repeating this? :banghead:

Sad what women have to do to get ahead. Now she has to put herself in alliance with McCain in order to knock Obama back. It's stupid for so many reasons.

Worst Campaign Tactic in The World.....

[bigtree]

96. It's a false construction. McCain isn't going to warm to Clinton & she isn't going to ally with him

It's political positioning for a Clinton/McCain match-up, at the expense of the Democratic candidate she expects to defeat as she works her way to the nomination.

[goletian]

98. LOL she's putting mccain above herself now!

"it’s imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold"
"I believe that I’ve done that."
"Certainly, Sen. McCain has done that..."
"you’ll have to ask Sen. Obama with respect to his candidacy"

she must really like mccain.