Irony

[gaspee]

When Iraq was invaded illegally by the US in 2003, 80% of Americans were for the invasion. The TV ratings for the shock and awe were through the roof.

I wonder how many of the people saying Clinton started the war and dropped the bombs herself were sitting on their couch cheering the bombs? I wonder how many of you watched the "Mission Accomplished" bullshit and felt proud of their country. I wonder how many of you shrugged off the war crimes as "shit happens."

I lost many friends between September 2001 and April 2003. I was blacklisted from one of my favorite sites when I compared the terror alert bullshit to McCarthyism. I protested this illegal act of aggression and stood on the street corners in my town having things thrown at me while most of you yahoos cheered on the bombing. Now you have the fucking audacity to scream "murderer" at Clinton. Give me a fucking break.

It's been said that if all the people who claimed to have been at Woodstock had actually been there, there would have been 10,000,000 people there.

Well, if all the people who claimed to be against this illegal act of aggression actually were, it never would have fucking happened.

[ingac70]

1. Who promoted war here at DU?

You are barking up the wrong tree.

[gaspee]

2. How many

Of the most rabid posters were here then?

If you weren't one of the 80% cheering this shit on, then I'm not talking to you.

[melody]

5. You've never made a mistake in your life? n/t

[gaspee]

8. That's where the irony comes in

People who were "mistaken" when they were cheerleaders for this war are now calling Clinton out for voting for the war they were in favor of.

That's the irony part.

I lobbied by Senators and Congressman against the war and I'm happy that all four of them voted against it. I'm not sure if I would still hold it against them now if they voted for it.

Even in my state, with it's strong anti-war stance, more than 50% of their constituants were in favor of the war.

[lojasmo]

15. She never read the NIE which was provided for her.

For the record, I was vociferously against the war, and the IWR.

[melody]

27. That's another person's irony, not mine

I was in favor of John Edwards. He made the same mistake. My problem with Hillary has nothing to
do with her admitted mistakes. In fact, my only real problem with Hillary is the crap she has
pulled the last couple of weeks.

[ingac70]

10. I never cheered this shit on.

And I don't cheer on those that made it possible.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

16. You can find out

simply check their user profile. Unless they have disabled it, you'll know when they joined.

[melody]

3. Why not do something courageous and post this to Free Republic?

Most people at DU don't deserve to be lectured to.

[BOSSHOG]

4. I was against it long before it happened

I'm a military retiree. I was, on occasion, verbally accosted because of my remarks about bush and his war and his lies in 02 and 03. However, verbally accosting me is not a very smart thing to do. By the way, I was never at Woodstock, but I disagree with your premise. bush was going to war regardless of any opposition to his goals.

[gaspee]

17. Even when

I've disagreed with you, I've always respected you. I know you were out there fighting the good fight, as were a lot of Du'ers in the early 2000's. It's why a lot of us found a home on this board.

I'm mostly talking about all the newbies over the past year or so. The ones who are the loudest with their blaming Bush's war on Clinton.

I do think he could have been stopped if 80% of the country were against the war. I don't think Congress could have stopped him. We know exactly how much he respects the balance of power mandated by our constitution. But I don't think the media made it possible for the *average* American to be against the war.

I have such a huge problem with the fact that a lot of the people screaming "murderer" at Clinton because they support Obama probably supported the war back then. Whether they were tricked or not. That's why I titled the thread "irony."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. Right on, Boss!

And thanks for your service to your country in the service and in 02 and 03! And you are absolutely correct about Bush. He had the MSM in his pocket-nothing was going to stop him.

[Arkansas Granny]

28. Like you, BOSS, I was always against it and was telling friends

of mine for 6 months before the invasion that there was nothing that Saddam could do to keep Bush from declaring war against him. The WOT had been very good for Bush and when his ratings started to slip he thought he could bump them back up with another war, regardless how he had to do it.

[BOSSHOG]

29. I thought I proposed a rational argument

Concentrate our military in Afghanistan to "fight terrorists and terrorism." Maybe even get OBL. I also knew that Iraq was a very weak military country. But the "true patriots" in America would hear none of it. I loved getting dressed down by 20 somethings who never served in the military.

[NMMatt]

6. I screamed murder at Clinton then and now so spare the lecture -nt

[11 Bravo]

11. Posters who have been here less than a month tend to come in for the occasional lecture.

Suck it up.

[lligrd]

7. I Was Out Picketing And Writing Letters

including to Hillary trying to get her to read the facts. Too bad she never did.

[gaspee]

9. I was doing the same thing

with my congressmen and Senators. All four of them voted against it, including the only R from my state.

Clinton's constituancy were in favor of the war. Now those self-same people are villifying her for her vote.

That's the irony part.

[Laughing Mirror]

24. She ignored all our phone calls, emails and faxes, as she ignored the NIE

She had the facts. We kept bombarding her with the facts. But she refused to look at them and she refused to listen to us.

She refused to listen to the voice of a quarter of a million people who were demonstrating at the largest demonstration since Vietnam war on the National Mall in October of 2002. She wanted war. She's now seeing where her wrong decision has landed her. On the losing side again.

[lligrd]

31. Exactly, True Progressives Don't Support Warmongers,

imperialists and chickehawks even if they are women.

[underpants]

12. No! 60% in every poll said "don't go alone"

every poll but it was never reported. In groupthink world if it had gotten out that it was even "okay" not to be for the war it could have started a landslide

to say that 80% were in "for the war" is not accurate. 80% were asked if they supported the war and said yes because they equated supporting the war with not wanting American soldiers and marines to die.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

21. Thanks underpants, for clarifying this important point.

From my journal, the TIME magazine article that came out right before the war...the war was waged in spite of grave misgivings in the American public.

They did not have true support, just whipped up xenophobic fervor here and there.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/BleedingHeartPatriot/46

[underpants]

26. 56% knew

amazing

[mrreowwr_kittty]

13. Um, 1 million people marched in the streets of NYC. Millions more marched all over the world.

22 of her fellow Senators voted against the war. As did the majority of Dem Reps in the House. Carl Levin warned that the NIE was not showing that Iraq had what Bushco was claiming it did. She voted against Levin's amendment to bring inspectors back in.

It should also be noted that the people who brought us this debacle, the neo-cons, are the same jokers who formed the PNAC in the late 90s and tried to get Bill to invade Iraq then. He told them to go pound sand. If anyone should have known what they were up to, it should have been Hillary Clinton. There is no excuse for her. Don't go comparing her to average Americans who were duped by the media (though obviously not all of us were) because she had resources at her disposal that none of us have.

Her IWR vote may not be the sole cause of what ensued, but it was craven, calculating, and cynical nonetheless. It was all about positioning herself as being "tough enough" to be POTUS. Assuming the best case scenario, that the war would be over in a few weeks and the Iraqis would greet us with flowers and candy, she was still voting to drop bombs on civilians. A few hundred or a few thousand deaths was an acceptable price for her ambition.

And let's not even talk about her Kyl-Lieberman vote or her vote against banning cluster bombs.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. For the record

I wasn't at Woodstock, having no funds to get there and no inclination to go. I had an education to obtain, and I wasn't going to let the opportunity go to waste.

I was front and center at all anti-war protests and teach-ins in my county in 2003. The group was spat upon and assaulted at one point-the cops broke it up-and we were shouted at by several people who thought going to war was a fine thing. We were even told Bush was the Second Coming of Christ.

I was disgusted and angry at my senators, who both voted for the IWR, and with any other Senator who did. I phoned and wrote them and my repuke conman. I had anti-war signs on my car and continued to hand out informational literature on the war, writing LTTE, etc, through the 2004 election. I was part of a group that raised and spent our own money taking out ads in the local paper supporting Kerry when our local Democratic Committee refused to do so. Needless to say, I did something rather than cheer at the "Mission Accomplished" PR event.

I don't call Clinton a "murderer" but I do feel her judgment was poor in the case of the IWR resolution, and was based on political expediency. I have supported Kucinich for President because he has been consistent in his opposition to war and the Patriot Act, etc. etc.

Literally MILLIONS of people came out against the war in 2003, but the MSM ignored them. Unless someone had come up with a peaceful more effective tactic for grabbing attention of the public in general, I'm not sure we could have stopped it. The MSM wanted the war as much a Bushco did.

[redqueen]

19. I was disgusted with lies about Iraq from day 1.

And when I listened to that vote, on NPR, and heard some of our Dems talk about why they were voting for it, my heart sank.

[gaspee]

20. That was a bad day

wasn't it? Hell, the whole thing was surreal. It felt like a nightmare we couldn't wake up from.

[cali]

22. Don't fucking quit your day job genius

And I sure as shit did more than YOU. I went to DC three times to protest the war while you couldn't be bothered. And in my state, the war was overwhelmingly unpopular. My Senators and rep voted against it and wouldn't have been re-elected had they voted for it.

How fucking dare YOU make the assumption that only sainted little you protested the war. Most DUers were against it

I'm completely consistent: I said 5 years ago I would NEVER vote for any candidate in a primary who was craven enough to vote for that war.

Darling Hilly has blood on her hands. Period.

And take your sanctimonious lecture and shove it where the sun don't shine.

[theredpen]

23. 80%? I thought it was 70%

Anyway, those high numbers didn't occur until after our quick trek to Baghdad. Also, only 40% of the people believed that Saddam Hussein had WMD. That's means as many as 30%-40% knew the war was a lie and supported it anyway. I suspect that one of those people was Hillary Clinton.

[democrattotheend]

25. So doesn't that highlight how courageous Obama was?

Taking a stand against the war when 80% of Americans favored it.

[Elidor]

30. I have yet to see a single post in favor of the war here at DU

"All you yahoos?" You're talking to people who don't even exist, Einstein.

[gaspee]

32. Einstein?

Right back atcha, sweetheart. Like I said, if the people who said they were at Woodstock actually were, there would have been ten million people there.

If all the geniuses who *say* they were against the war, actually were, it never would have happened.

Perhaps you need some reading comprehension?

You think any of these newbies are gonna admit they cheered on this asinine war? Really? Ya think they'd admit it now?

Those are the people I'm talking to, Einstein.