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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 03:56 PM
Original message
Clinton, Genocide and a Campaign gaffe
Power was rightfully awarded the Pulitzer for her finely written and downright horrifying book "A Problem From Hell" which, in macabre detail, describes the calculated indifference of the Clinton administration when 800,000 Rwandans were being systematically butchered. The red phone rang and rang and rang again. I don't know where Hillary was then. But her husband and his entire experienced foreign policy team - from the brass in the Pentagon to the congenitally feckless Secretary of State Warren Christopher - just let it ring.

And as more than one researcher has amply documented the case, the bloody paralysis of the Clinton administration in the face of the Rwandan genocide owed not at all to a lack of information, but rather to a lack of will. A reviewer of Power's book for The New York Times, perhaps summed it up best, saying that the picture of Clinton that emerges from this reading is that of an "amoral narcissist."

Former Canadian General Romeo Dallaire, who commanded the UN forces in Rwanda at the time of the genocide, tells us a similar story in his own memoir. General Dallaire recounts how, at the height of the Rwandan holocaust, he got a phone call from a Clinton administration staffer who wanted to know how many Rwandans had already died, how many were refugees and how many were internally displaced. Writes Dallaire: "He told me that his estimates indicated that it would take the deaths of 85,000 Rwandans to justify the risking of the life of one American soldier." Eventually, ten times that many would die. And our response? A handful of years later, at a photo-op stopover in Kigali airport, Bill Clinton bit his lip and said he was sorry.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marc-cooper/clinton-genocide-and-a-c_b_90436.html
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. OK, Hillary defend this:
We gave Power the Pulitzer for exposing the, well, monstrous indifference of the Clinton administration as it stared unblinkingly and immobile into the face of massive horror. But we give her a kick in the backside and throw her out the door when she has the temerity to publicly restate all that in one impolite word. Monstrous, indeed.


And Cheney did it too is no excuse.


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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yup, I've seen Bill talk about Rwanda just recently...
and he feels real bad about that and all... just aw shucks real bad.

I wonder if Hillary feels real bad about the 100s of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians killed?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why Rwanda was allowed to happen- France gets their uranium there. It's like the French Iraq
so to speak.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. The US allowed it to happen because of Somalia
The genocidaires slaughtered the Belgians specifically to get them on TV, in order to get the West out.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. There is no justification for Pres. Clinton's inaction regarding the genocide
and her book was SPOT ON in calling them to account for it. David Rawson was either acting stupid or is genuinely a stupid person. Warren Christopher should be absolutely ashamed of himself, and I have no idea how Christine Shelley sleeps at night.


Gen. Dallaire should have statues of him erected in every major city in the world.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I agree with every word and General Dallaire
is one of the few people I consider to be a genuine hero. Power's book was extraordinary.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Gen Dallaire is, in every sense of the word, a hero
and the kind of man I can only hope my son grows up to be like.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. It appears everyone who goes near Hillary is willing to lose credibility for her

Clark and Rubin attack "amateur hour"

Retired NATO commander Wes Clark and former State Department spokesman Jamie Rubin attacked Samantha Power on a Clinton conference call just now, a fairly poignant moment because Power, in the past, has been their vocal ally.

Clark is a hero of Power's first book, A Problem from Hell, and she and Rubin both backed Clark for president in 2004.

Clark today called her words "disturbing" and suggested that Obama's stance boils down to "simply show(ing) up and say(ing), 'What's this all about?'" That approach would, he said, "leave us still at war."

Rubin blamed Obama for the mess, in particular for giving a senior foreign policy advisor -- he described her variously as a "guru" and a "svengali" with "unlimited access to the candidate -- free rein to tour the world talking about his policies in a field where words matter.

"He can't seem to run a foreign policy team the way it's supposed to run," he said, calling it "amateur hour on making foreign policy."

"I feel very sorry for her," Rubin said. "This is his fault, not her fault."


Now what the hell does Power's opinion of Hillary have to do with foreign policy?

McAwfull is milking the comment for money, and Clark and Rubin decide to be hypocrites! So words suddenly matter again?



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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. That's disappointing
coming from Clark. Rubin is clearly lying.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Rubin a hypocrite and a saboteur

Comments on Iraq War In Error, Says Kerry Aide

By Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 25, 2004; Page A08

A top national security adviser to John F. Kerry said yesterday that he made a mistake when he said the Democratic nominee probably would have launched a military invasion to oust Saddam Hussein if he had been president during the past four years.

On Aug. 7, Jamie Rubin told The Washington Post that "in all probability" a Kerry administration would have waged war against Iraq by now if the Massachusetts Democrat were president.

The Bush campaign, eager to portray Kerry as holding the same position as the president after the failure to find weapons of mass destruction, seized on Rubin's comments as evidence that the Republican and Democratic presidential candidates share similar views on the war, in retrospect. On NBC's "Meet the Press" on Sunday, Bush campaign manager Ken Mehlman said the two candidates agreed about "sending our troops to war."

"To the extent that my own comments have contributed to misunderstanding on this issue. . . . I never should have said the phrase 'in all probability' because that's not Kerry's position and he's never said it," Rubin said in a statement. "That was my mistake."

In previous conversations, Rubin said Kerry would have handled the Iraq strategy much differently than Bush from the beginning by allowing U.N. weapons inspectors more time, attracting more allies into the effort and crafting a better postwar plan to stabilize Iraq, among other things. On Aug. 7, when pressed by a reporter about whether Kerry, like Bush, believes he still would have gone to war, Rubin said, "In all probability he would have launched a military invasion with the support of the rest of the world by now."

more


Amateur hour, indeed!

Shades of Bill



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mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Neither one has the best track record.
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 07:51 PM by mojowork_n
Rubin's a liar from way back -- he was the State Department's Official Spokesman at the end of the Clinton Administration.

It was always somewhat disturbing to me that after his few years under the bright lights, he ended up married to CNN's Christianne Amanpour.

Not exactly as bizarre as James Carville and Mary Matalan finding connubial bliss, but in a way almost as unusual, ethics-wise.

Wesley Clark, on the other hand, as a relatively young officer, in Vietnam, secured his future when he accepted the responsibility for documenting the U.S. Army's official history of the My Lie Massacre.



...But to get back to Samantha Power & Rwanda -- in a somewhat roundabout way -- I have always thought Philip Gourevitch's We Wish to Inform You that Tomorrow We Will be Killed With our Families was *the* landmark, on-the-ground-and-up-close-and-personal history of what happened in Rwanda, in the mid-90's. (Better than Power's or Dallaire's.)

Gourevitch took over for George Plimpton as editor of the Paris Review. With much of that book originally published in the New Yorker, you know he's a very good writer. It was sometimes rough going, but I originally thought *very* highly of his book, and the job he did in traveling the country and finding real people to interview, both Tutsi and Hutu, and the selected bits and morsels of history that he wove together as a background.

However, ever since I found out that Gourevitch was married to State Department ex-spokesperson Jamie Rubin's sister (Elizabeth, also a writer), questions that never occurred to me while I was reading We Wish to Inform You, suddenly came back to me. (And they're even more troubling, in light of Wesley Clark's and Jamie Rubin's obvious duplicity, today.)

Who paid for the damned radio stations, broadcasting the killing messages? Who brought in all the machetes? In the book, the chief Hutu propagandist is named and described, with a fairly complete summary of some of his writing, but he's clearly identified as being second string, someone who took orders and obeyed.

The Hutu's are identified, just as clearly, as the instigators of the genocide, but...


  • why?
  • who shot down the President's plane?
  • who paid for what?
  • who benefited?

are questions left unanswered...

The War in the Congo that's consumed 6 million lives is a continuation of the Rwandan War. It started out as a cross-border Tutsi/Hutu sorting out, with many hundreds of thousands still living under U.N. auspices. While we're not seeing many hundreds of thousands of people hacked to death every month, the on-going, continuing slaughter (in the complete absence of media scrutiny/oversight) is deeply troubling.

The timing of the Rwandan genocide -- with the President-for-Life for the Congo, the monster who succeeded Patrice Lumumba clearly on his way out -- is a little strange, too.

As Gourevitch documented in the book, with a personal tour (how did he end up there?) of Mobutu Sese Seko's abandoned mansion, in the Congo (so many poetic, decadent life-style details from the rubble and wreckage therein), the handwriting was clearly on the wall. A power vacuum, just waiting to be filled, that could not be left to collapse of it's own accord.

I'm left wondering what the ties were between the Rwandan Patriotic Front, and the U.S.? General Kigame was trained by the U.S. Army. (He was in the U.S. when the genocide began, or just before it started.) Did the RPF have the benefit of satellite and other intelligence, from the Americans, in beating back numerically superior Hutu forces? To what extent was Military Professional Resources, Inc., involved?

The Congo is one of the richest pieces of real estate on the planet. There are minerals there, obtainable no where else on earth, without which you simply can't make a cell phone...

...On the other hand (I'm just thinking out loud here), the current American/Western plan for Africa clearly leaves something to be desired. I just happened to read this article, the other day, thanks to the folks at the "Scoop Independent News" site.

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=545&Itemid=1

Excerpt:

"Since the end of the Cold War, under Democrats and Republicans alike, the US has provided tens of billions of dollars worth of military aid, military training and arms transfers to 50 of the 54 nations in Africa. America's militarized foreign policy has transformed Africa into the poorest and most war-ravaged continent on earth, with several armed conflicts raging at any one time over the last two decades, and American arms and training a factor in at least one of each. It is the militarization of US policy toward Africa that has manufactured the "failed states" which, like the Congo are ideal for the extraction of African resources, as well as the desired excuses for further military intervention..."

...OK, cutting to the chase:

I wasn't at all surprised, today, to read Wes Clark's and Jamie Rubin's thoroughly nasty comments. It's actually very disheartening to imagine that such smart, well-put-together, well-educated -- and Democratic -- spokespeople could be so small, spineless and self-serving. When it comes to American foreign policy, though, I suspect it's only the very small tip of a very large, very deeply submerged iceberg.

Counter-argument, also possible:
(Sure, it's possible that with a week's delay between the original interview with The Scotsman, and the actual, finally released revelation that she used the "M" word to describe Hillary, there was something else going on inside the Obama campaign. Maybe someone decided Ms. Power didn't have enough sand in the bucket, when it came to serving as a counterweight to Hillary's dozen generals, all in a row in front of the cameras. So she ended up under the bus, a decision regretted by all, but tactically acceptable to everyone -- including maybe even Ms. Power. Seen in that light, Clark's and Rubin's comments could be a really acid vintage of sour grapes, reflecting as much disappointment -- last chance to pile on -- as "outrage.")

Either way:
In the near term, there is likely to be NO END in sight, when it comes to the total lack of information Americans have about what really goes on in the rest of the world. (That probably goes double, triple, and several more orders of magnitude, squared, for places like the Democratic Republic of the Congo.)

...Forgive me for thinking out loud, or in this case, through my fingers on the keyboard.
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CitizenLeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. No, I'll not forgive you - that was a fantastic post.
If I had 2 dimes to rub together, I'd buy all 3 books. In fact, you've got me putting them in my shopping cart for a future day.

Thank you for that post. Sincerely.
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mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thanks, but I made a boo-boo.
I got Colin Powell and Wes Clark mixed up. Powell made his bones covering up My Lai (and My Khe, which no one except Seymour Hersh remembers.)

Wes Clark was just smart, valedictorian of his class. Still, it shows no class at all for him to bad-mouth Samantha Power -- who was a supporter and adviser of his, back in 2004.

...By the way, if you find anything, in any book on Central Africa, that has financial info, let me know. I found some online stuff from a Zmag guy (Keith Harmon Snow), but it's only one source. Of course, that's the trouble with academics -- if there are few recognized sources for information, you're not exactly encouraged to guess, or accept hypotheses (no matter how improbable) that fit the facts. Convenient, I suppose, when it comes to those important fund-raising drives for the college endowment, that there not be anything too controversial stirred up.
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CitizenLeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. no apology necessary!
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 08:29 PM by CitizenLeft
When you are as well-read as you apparently are, it's impossible to keep all of those facts straight in your head 100% of the time. I've made some notable boo-boos too, and I don't read nearly as much as I should.

And I'm embarrassed to say, my knowledge of Central Africa is pathetic. It's probably more than the average American, but that's only because I've read a few articles and seen some documentaries and movies that may, or may not, be accurate. I get way too caught up in the political punditry on cable to READ like I should. When things settle down and we have a nominee, I'll remedy that.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. How hackish of them ..sorry, but they
sound no better than mark penn and I hope it comes back to bite them in their collective hackass.

I wouldn't vote for their girl if she were the last monkster on earth.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. It figures this thread would sink. n/t
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. It's all my pro-Power, anti-frontrunner nonsense
I'm sorry to the OP.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. "The red phone rang and rang and rang again."
Was it 3 a.m.?

Cause if it was lunchtime... well... maybe there was a temp on duty... or something?
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. If she claims the good, by saying she had a "8 years with a front-row seat on history"...
...where was she on Rwanda? Getting Popcorn?
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mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Hey, when it comes to Africa, we're *all* still in the dark.
Honestly, I don't even think self-proclaimed "foreign policy wonks" know what's really going on.

...I'm reminded of that scene in "Independence Day" (that movie where Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum nuke the mother ship), where it turns out that even the president doesn't know there's an "Area 51", with a large physical chunk of factual evidence, that turns into the alien spacecraft that Will and Jeff fly up to the mother ship, saving the planet.
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. You're kidding right?
You compare a science fiction movie to more than 750,000 people killed in genocide? It wasn't like this wasn't all over the news. It wasn't like the UN wasn't made aware. It wasn't like our ambassadors to the neighboring countries weren't screaming for help.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks for posting that.
I'm really down over everything today.
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angie_love Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. wow that was a very powerful read.
Makes me even more bitter that Samantha resigned.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
21. This thread reminds me why its so hard
to keep coming to this section of DU.
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