An honest question for Hillary supporters.

[WDIM]

And i want an honest answer.

Hillary talks about disenfranchised voters when she talks about MI and FL not being seated.

But do you really believe that if Obama won those states she would be asking for those states to be seated?
Do you really believe that Clinton cares about the voters?
Or just her own political gain?

Be honest not stupid.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. Both candidates are cynically concerned only with their success

There was much cheering around here yesterday at the prospect of a Michigan caucus, as opposed to a primary, because it would discourage Hillary voters from participating.

And there would be much cheering if Florida was seated as is, because it would favor Hillary.

And those differing attitudes are driven primarily by candidate choices.

[LSparkle]

5. Caucuses "discourage Hillary voters from participating"???

This is spin from the Clinton campaign. Is there PROOF that it's more difficult
for Hillary voters to show up at an appointed place at a specific time than it is
for Obama voters? It requires more effort -- and perhaps more dedication to your
candidate -- but it doesn't "discourage" voters for any candidate.

[seabeyond]

16. i want to know why they work for obama and hurt hillary. still have not gotten an answer

[Qutzupalotl]

24. You won't get a definitive answer,

since the only evidence is the results. We can't set up experiments to test hypotheses.

I think the best we can do is speculate. My sense is that there is a difference in the level of enthusiasm, which matters when you're talking about people standing up for several hours, late into the night.

Another explanation could be that Clinton's supporters tend to be older, and do not like to stand for a long time or stay up late. (I'm getting that way; I'd do it for him, but not her.)

[seabeyond]

26. hm... well, being adult i have to say, that there comes a time for compromise

and if that is the only kind of reason, it is no reason and suck it up and do for the voters.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

18. What EVER. The effect is demonstrable, the cause arguable.

Phrase it how you like... I probably didn't put it best. I shouldn't have characterized the cause of the disparity, but the straight-up fact is that if political parties had to comport with current civil rights and voting rights law in primaries, these caucuses would be shut down by the justice department.

Period.

So if you think they're just great, god help you.

Texas primary Clinton 51 Obama 47
Texas Caucus Clinton 46 Obama 54

Washington caucus Obama two to one
Washington Primary Obama 54ish Clinton 46ish

The more people vote, the better Clinton does. The less people vote, the better Obama does.

More people voting is a core Democratic value... except this year, when methods that result in less people voting are considered wonderful.

[JackORoses]

30. all it proves is that Obama supporters are more dedicated

[DemBones DemBones]

34. No, it shows that they're younger and/or healthier. Wait 'til your night vision goes

and you won't want to go out at night, either. It makes driving dangerous.

Wait until you have physical problems that make it difficult to stand for a long time. You can get plantar fasciitis at any age, or any of a number of degenerative diseases, and your odds go up with age.

Wait until you have an enlarged prostate -- polling places never seem to have restrooms.

[JackORoses]

44. what a load of crap. Obama supporters are of all ages.

They just care enough to show up. Most Hillarites can't be bothered apparently.

[DemBones DemBones]

45. You'll get your health problems, son, and you'll deserve them for your

uncaring attitude toward older voters.

People who work nights also can't go to caucuses but I suppose it's just tough shit for them, too, right? They're probably less affluent and educated than Obama likes his voters to be, anyway.

You are a typical Obama supporter. God help us all if that man becomes president.

[JackORoses]

47. Old people should be able to get to the Caucus easier. They are retired.

So the 'can't get off work' excuse doesn't work.

[Arkansas Granny]

33. I don't have a definitive answer, by any means, but I might make a wild guess.

We've been told that Obama supporters tend to be more affluent, younger, better educated voters and that Clinton's tend to be more working class, older and less affluent. Could it be that the working class voters are more apt to be on the job or unable to provide for child care or transportation during caucus hours which would therefore depress the turnout in that sector? This is pure speculation, but it might provide a clue.

[Sulawesi]

Or, if she thought the MI and FL elections were really fair, would she ever agree to a redo?

[theHandpuppet]

2. I believe if Obama had won those states

He'd be screaming bloody murder to get those delegates seated.

[WDIM]

4. Maybe if he were down.

But why would he? He doesn't need them.

But seriously I doubt it. He didn't campaign in either state and he pulled his name voluntarily out of MI.

[MonkeyFunk]

12. He'd need them to put him over the top

[HockeyMom]

3. I knew before I voted my vote wouldn't count

Duh? I went anyway because of the Homestead Amendement.

New Yorker for who voted for Hillary twice, but no more.

[WDIM]

6. I just asked the question because

It shows the selfish of the woman. Clintons have continually showed they do not believe the rules apply to them. And here again Hillary is stating hey the rules don't matter it benefits me so I want it.

[katty]

7. If the shoe were on the other foot he would be screaming too and

this is a political campaign to become the nominee for President of the USA-not some non-descript city council office, not a tea party. If they were his, HE should be screaming for his votes as well.

[WDIM]

11. Then why did he pull his name out of MI voluntarily? nt.

[katty]

15. I don't know-WHY do that? really, don't let go until really have

to-Dean needs to start dealing with these issues.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

19. It was a publicity stunt to curry favor with Iowa voters and to prevent

any news coverage of Clinton's inevitable, but meaningless, "win"

He was getting killed in Michigan polling before making that decision.

[Kittycat]

22. This isn't about shoes being on other feet. Answer the question.

[katty]

23. i did - it's a political campaign for both not a peace summit

[MonkeyFunk]

8. And do you believe that if Obama had won them

he wouldn't be asking to seat them?

[katty]

13. if he is SMART he would and SHOULD-then let Dean and states

work it out-Dean has alot on his plate, he knows these are big issues.

[rug]

9. Of course not. And do you think Obama would have removed his name from MI so quickly if

it weren't a favorable state for Clinton?

They're both politicians and both opportunists. At least Clinton is obvious about it.

[Bucky]

10. Welcome to DU, WDIM

You may be in the wrong forum to ask people not to be stupid. But I'm glad to see another fresh Obamist.

[WDIM]

21. thanks! just trying to get some thoughts going nt.

[jlpohio69]

14. I am a Hillary supporter....

and I believe that both candidates should be asking for this to happen. The people from FL and MI should be allowed to have a voice in the election process!

[MoonRiver]

17. If either one of them doesn't advocate for those states to be "enfranchised"

they will be painted as undemocratic and worse. So, yes, I think she would be asking for it.

[WDIM]

20. So you're all admiting its not for the voters.

What Obama would of done doesn't matter its a hypothetical that we can never know the answer to.

What Hillary is doing is trying to say she is on the side of the voters when in actuality she could careless about the voters and only about herself.
If she were atleast honest about it. Say hey I deserve those votes those votes are mine. I need them to have a chance at the nomination. Well atleast that would be honest. But she tries to play on the side of the voter. When everyone knows its a lie. You've all said it.

This speaks to the character of Hillary Clinton and speaks to why I don't like her and don't think she would make a good president.

She doesn't care about the people. She cares about her own political gain and would do anything to achieve her goals. Thats not somebody I want in the White house.

Maybe Obama is like that but I've yet to see anything that would make me feel that way. I'd rather take a chance that he is not like that. Then to go with somebody that I know is like that.

[katty]

25. he wants to be the nominee-yes? or why is he running? he

needs to push to get every state/vote to count. DNC and Dean may not allow it even if the states want to be represented.

[NashVegas]

27. No, Yes, No

Okay?

[MercutioATC]

28. So far, not ONE real answer to the OP...

The actual question was:

"...do you really believe that if Obama won those states she would be asking for those states to be seated?"

Well?

[DemBones DemBones]

35. See Crisco's post above yours, which was posted 5 minutes before yours.

I agree with her and would add that if Obama had won those primaries, he'd want them seated, too.

If Obama cares so much about voters, why doesn't he want the voters of MI and FL represented at the convention?

They got screwed by their states "breaking the rules," though they weren't the only states that voted before Super Tuesday.

[MercutioATC]

36. Yes, Crisco posted while I was in the middle of my post...and she's the first...

I believe that both candidates care about the voters in MI and FL.

I also believe that their motivation to pursue the issue is mainly based on how seating those delegates would effect their campaigns.


My point was that 99% of the responses here deal don't answer the question, they reverse the postulate and try to throw it back at the poster.

[madmom]

29. I think they should be the same as they had the first time, so all the people who

took part and those who didn't but want to can do so.

[Lucinda]

31. Do you really expect people to take you seriously when your last line is

"Be honest not stupid."
Really?

[MercutioATC]

37. I think that should be the standard disclaimer on every question these days.

A lot of people (both here and in the general population) need to be reminded not to be stupid.

[Lucinda]

40. That's a fact. It's silly season on steriods.

[littlebit]

32. I think she would.

I don't think she would be as vocal as she has been about it. But I think she would ask that they are seated. She would still be picking up delegates right?

[calico1]

38. I really believe that if the situation were

reversed and it was Obama who had won the uncounted votes in FL and MI he would be doing the exact same thing. And no, she wouldn't be fighting for the seating of delegates just as Obama is not fighting for them.

This is called POLITICS.

[Robeson]

43. Agreed.

[DemBones DemBones]

39. Honest answers here:

I'm not an avid Clinton supporter, Kucinich has been my preference since 2002, but I will vote for her if she's nominated, will vote third party for the first time in my life if Obama is nominated. Clinton is nowhere near as progressive a candidate as I would like, but she's better than Obama or McCain. Just so you know where I'm coming from, since you're new here, OK?


I think that Hillary Clinton probably would support seating the delegates if Obama had won those states. It's my opinion that her conscience would make her do what's fair, even if it hurt her politically. At first I thought "No" because it goes against her interests and nobody likes going against their own interests but the more I think about it, the more I think she would, because if those delegates aren't seated, all those voters lose their voice in selecting our nominee.

I think HRC cares about the voters in those states and about people everywhere, not just about her political future, though obviously she wants to win. She's done a lot of work to help people, especially children, who aren't voters, and she's done it for many years, long before she got into politics. I disagree with her about some things but I think she tries to make things better.


Now you answer my question:

If Obama cares so much about voters, and hope and unity, why doesn't he want the voters of MI and FL represented at the convention?

The voters got screwed by their states "breaking the rules," though they weren't the only states that voted before Super Tuesday.

Those voters need to be represented. Punish the states, not the voters.

I said this a couple of days ago when I thought Obama won MI and Clinton won FL. (I haven't paid much attention to who won what since Kucinich dropped out.) I would think so if he had won MI and FL. I wouldn't be happy about it because I don't want him to be our nominee for a number of reasons, the most important being that I think McCain will win if he is.

But it would be the fair thing to do for the voters in MI and FL.

[sueragingroz]

41. Do you really think that Obama wouldn't be asking for them if he had won them?

[susankh4]

42. No.

I believe that if Obama won those states HE wuold be asking for them to be seated.

And so would YOU!

[Danzo]

46. I'm Not Sure She WON Michigan

She got more votes, but she was the only one on the ballot.