I live in Florida, should my vote not count??

[ShaneGR]

Let me clarify something for your flamers real quick. I don't have a preference. When the vote was held here back in the early parts of the primary, I voted for Edwards. I think both HRC and Obama are both great candidates, and I think the only way for this to work is for both to be on the same ticket together. The first woman and the first African American in the White House, tell me that doesn't blow away some stereotypes.

Anyways, for years I've sat and read thousands of threads on voter rights. Thousands of threads on why every vote should be counted. Every vote should matter. I've seen thousands of threads on why it was wrong for Kerry to give up without a fight in 2004 and not file lawsuits on behalf of his campaign.

I'm a Florida voter, my vote should matter, that's the simple reality of it. If we really do believe in equal opportunity and voting rights, bout time we did that. Neither candidate can currently get the the # needed to lock up the nomination. Evem with Michigan and Florida counting on a revote, Obama does better anyways, and it's still a once in a lifetime media spectacle brokered convention while McCain sits at home giving W...... errrr..... nm.

Have the revotes I say, make em count.

[snappyturtle]

1. Sorry to say but your primary vote doesn't count. imho n/t

[Kittycat]

3. OP is askign for a revote.

I support that.

ETA: But I think that the state needs to pay, since they broke the rules.

[snappyturtle]

122. Nope. I think Fl screwed up and shouldn't be rewarded now with

the last vote. If they had left things alone they would have voted on March 4th, which turned out to be a big day. Sorry. Rules are rules.

[SharonAnn]

103. Any vote on the wrong day doesn't count.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Sorry, Florida got disqualified.

They should have stuck with the rules.

[Dr.Phool]

71. His vote will count in November, when it counts.

Like th OP, I live in Florida, and voted for Edwards.

To prevent these fiasco's from happening again, we need to throw out all the DLC assholes in the legislature, and party leadership positions.

[MonkeyFunk]

89. The DLC had nothing to do with this fiasco

[Hawkeye-X]

97. Yes they did. Bill Nelson is DLC.

So is more than half of FL Legislature.

Hawkeye-X

[MonkeyFunk]

104. So what?

He could be a Shriner, too. Does that mean the Shriners are behind it?

The DLC had nothing to do with this.

[tpsbmam]

4. I think there has been a fair amount of support

for holding a re-vote in both states. I just wish people (and I mean all of us, not just your states) had spoken up before the election to protest the decision to not seat FL and MI delegates -- we've all known about it for a long time. Now it just looks like politics as usual.

[jsmirman]

5. I'm not sure how many people have a problem with a revote

I know I don't.

I think you're completely wrong about the viability of the ticket you propose, but I can't see any reason to be against Floridians having a chance to vote in a properly sanctioned, mutually agreed upon primary.

To honor the "results" of the bogus non-contest that took place would be criminal sewer-politics and party suicide, but to do a recampaign and revote seems like a more than reasonable solution.

[jsmirman]

56. I stand corrected. There are Hillary supporters who are despicable enough

to not want a re-vote. Because they have become that drunk with desire to win.

As I said in another response, how can you possibly say your vote is being discounted if you voted the first time???

They are suggesting that the people who had the energy to VOTE IN A CONTEST WHERE THEY WERE EXPLICITLY TOLD THEIR VOTES WOULD NOT COUNT will not have the energy to VOTE IN A CONTEST WHERE A VOTE DOES COUNT!!!

Just read that back. The stupidity is staggering.

:dunce:

[musicblind]

120. There are SOME Obama supporters who do not support a recount because

it would run the chance of hurting Obama more so than if the votes were not counted at all and they see it as an unnecessary risk to take.

[OhioBlue]

6. I think if FL and MI want to hold

new Primaries or Caucuses in accordance with DNC rules, that's fine. I am not even opposed to them having early Primaries. What I do oppose is agreed upon rules being changed in the middle of a Primary season. They cannot count "as is".

[Maddy McCall]

7. Your vote should count, no matter who you voted for.

Anyone who argues that millions of voters should be disfranchised is NOT a Democrat.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. i also dont know what kidn of stupidity possessed people to disenfranchise florida further

like 2000 wasnt bad enough

[Maddy McCall]

16. It's insane!

And even to request a "do-over" is wrong. The voters have spoken, and their votes should be accepted.

[Coexist]

20. the voters turned out for a constituional amendment on property taxes

there was no campaigning.

and before you start, a few stray CNN commercials are not campaigning.

[Maddy McCall]

21. The voters voted for whatever reason they voted.

You do not know why every person voted. To say that you do is laughable.

[Coexist]

54. yet you are the sole authority on what a real Democrat is

and the true definition of Democracy.

Right.

[jsmirman]

38. Dam***. I'm sorry but THAT is pure idiocy

That thinking suggests that any election where people vote is legitimate.

That is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on these boards- coming in at the top of a LONG list.

Just because people vote doesn't mean an election is legitimate.

Nearly every dictator in the world has managed to get people to participate in pitiful sham elections. But just because people voted, is the result legitimate? No, the election is still a sham.

If an election is invalid, the votes are invalid.

The voters, unfortunately thanks to their local party, participated in a gross perversion not an election.

Are you really so dumb that you think what they conducted was a legitimate result or are you just that biased?

Please, why don't you lay out for me WHY there is a problem with a revote.

If you have machine malfunctions all over the place, that can be cause for a revote. But even that ISN'T CLOSE TO WHAT HAPPENED HERE. You had an "election" taking place on fundamentally false terms.

I am so disgusted to read that there are people who would support this kind of thing. You should be ashamed of yourself. You have completely lost your way and your sense of reason or fair conduct.

And this says nothing about the irreparable damage that honoring these "results" would do to the party. I would renounce any party that was so weak that it allowed this sort of coup. This is the worst kind of THUGGISM imaginable.

[superkia]

113. So what you are saying is that all of the voters that didnt take...

off of work or lose hard to find family time because they knew that some ass hat politicians made it so their vote wouldn't count, should be disenfranchised? I cant imagine someone wanting to take away my opportunity to place a vote that counts, the people are supposed to choose their president, not one candidate fighting for an advantage. You should be ashamed of yourself to feel that those people don't mean anything! As your girl would say. " SHAME ON YOU!"

1: stick with rules, voters lose but no candidate gets an unfair advantage.

2: Change the rules in the middle and many voters are disenfranchised so one candidate can get an unfair advantage.

3: new primary dates and all the voters count and choose their candidate, fair in every way.


Are you saying you would choose choice number (2) just so your team can win? I don't think your personal team means more than all of the people that would be disenfranchised. I guess you are telling the OP that their states population shouldn't count, very nice, your avatar fits you nicely and your candidate supports your view!

[Coexist]

11. We broke the rules, and I AM a Democrat.

[Maddy McCall]

18. If you think millions of people's votes shouldn't count, you don't support democracy.

No other way to look at it.

[Coexist]

22. the headlines in lots of papers informed voters, prior to the election

that their votes in the Democratic primary would not seat any delegates.

[Maddy McCall]

25. Yet look how many voted anyway.

[HooptieWagon]

31. property tax referendum was on ballot - that always turns out big numbers

[Maddy McCall]

39. LOL.

:eyes:

[Capn Sunshine]

53. This is so transparent

we all know what's at stake here. A few delegates for Hillary, who won't do half as well if we have an ACTUAL election.

Even then she can't win, so why stay in it unless you want to rend the party asunder to clear the field for 2012?

[HooptieWagon]

67. yes, true

But I'm sure she realizes she won't get emough delegates, but probably is hoping to have a lead in popular votes, and will argue for the nomination based on that. Weak arguement, and unprecedented, but it's all she's got.

[Coexist]

44. but no one was able to work to make their case in this state

not everyone is a political junkie - no one called, no one knocked on doors, there were no fundraisers, house parties, rallies, nothing. It was strictly on name recognition, hardly fair or Democratic.

[durrrty libby]

29. And yet record turnout.

[durrrty libby]

23. You just didn't like the outcome. No do-overs. Seat the delegates

[Coexist]

35. its not fair when there was no chance for people to get their message out

and I voted for Edwards.

[durrrty libby]

45. Millions of people watched millions of televisions and they even have the

internet in Fl. Imagine that?

And BTW Obama was the only one running ads. Tons of them

[Coexist]

48. um... 'tons of them'

I never saw one, although I heard there were some.

And rallies and GOTV is much more important. Look at how the numbers change once candidates set foot in a state. You have to at least admit that.

[durrrty libby]

55. Fl had a record turnout. If it had a low turnout I would agree but it didn't

And yes tons of ads. It got obnoxious

[Coexist]

61. so only CNN viewers should count?

c'mon. Real campaigning changes numbers, you know that, and I got TONS of mail, every day, about the property tax amendment. It was a pretty big deal.

I can't believe you won't admit that real campaigning moves numbers.

[JBoy]

81. So what's the threshold for turnout for it to "count"?

[jsmirman]

42. NO... we don't like completely illegitimate, completely invalid results

being touted as anything but the garbage that they are.

If you are so far gone as a result of this contest that you really believe in what you're saying, you need to check yourself. You've lost it.

You have completely lost the plot. I hope that someday, looking back, you will have enough intelligence to realize how deeply wrong what you are suggesting is.

[durrrty libby]

49. Time for your Kool-Aid refill. You don't want any break in your delusional world

Reality would scare you

[jsmirman]

59. What the h*** did you just say? Nice response- zero content, no actual point

just some garbage about koolaid and what you call reality.

Sorry, but the reality is that you participated in a bogus election. THAT is reality.

And your desire to not participate in a fair, legitimate election says everything about how unworthy you are of having the vote in the first place.

Disgusting.

[durrrty libby]

66. Blabity blah faux rage idiotic nonsense

:dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :nopity: :boring:

[jsmirman]

70. Nope, that's you. Worthless, contentless, senseless

brava.

Pitiful.

[KAZ]

32. Silly you. Dem/not-Dem is decided by Maddy.

Now go eat your peas.

[Coexist]

34. my bad...

sorry.

:blush:

[spoony]

51. YOU as a voter didn't break anything and your vote should count.

[Coexist]

57. yes I did. I was on my local DEC. I voted to move the date up.

I screwed up. And I was wrong. I broke the rules, and my vote shouldn't count. I am okay with that.

see my post #24.

[casus belli]

8. Your vote should count, but it should be fair.

The candidates were restricted in much the same way you were. To make it truly fair, they need to hold another election and allow the candidates time to campaign there.

[Maddy McCall]

28. Then you propose throwing out votes. Votes don't count if they're thrown out.

A "do-over" equates to throwing out previous votes.

[casus belli]

41. My only question is, would you be against it if Obama were winning?

Because I think it's the fairest option regardless of who was leading before the election re-vote. The vote was held without BOTH candidates having a proper campaign there. Both candidates should be allowed to freely distribute their message and then the voters should be given a chance to decide. I also think each of the candidates should pick up 1/3 the tab, with the state party taking up the other 1/3.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Coexist]

9. I live in Florida, and I was actually one of the people who voted to move the primary up

even though we knew our votes might not count - just to see if maybe Dean would blink.

It didn't work out. My primary vote shouldn't count, and its my own fault.

I would love the opportunity for a do-over though.

[HooptieWagon]

24. foolish vote, and I can see where you'd like it back

Credit to you for your honesty, though. Have to be careful with those votes, it's hard to take them back - just ask the 76 US Senators that voted for war.

[Coexist]

40. honestly, the mood in the room at the time

was, why the hell not! Our vote never matters anyhow - the nominee is always chosen by the time they get to us, so what difference will it make.

No one was all "fuck Dean, we will FORCE this matter."

It was pretty laid back. Oh, how stupid we were!

[Maribelle]

77. What on earth dates were your in that room with the mood?

Say honest.

[Coexist]

99. I have no idea what you are trying to ask me here

your post doesn't make any sense.

[Maribelle]

76. Say what's this: "we knew our votes might not count"???

The first version of the bill to pass had the date set to the first Tuesday in February -or- one week after the New Hampshire primaries, whichever came first. So far so good for Florida, right?

After the bill was passed, New Hampshire set its date to - - guess what? Now Florida is in big trouble, because this would cause the Florida primary to be January 15th, and the DNC written rules for 2008 said they could lose 50% of their delegates.

Now the Republicans and the Democrats enter into an intense battle with the election reform bill which ended up to be January 29th for 2008 - the last Tuesday in January.

A blinking Dean was the furthest from most good folks minds.

Florida has been attempting to change her primary date for all the 18 years I have lived here.

Sorry, but in light of the intense series of events the led up to the January 29th date, I find it hard to believe many in the beginning felt as you said you felt: "even though we knew our votes might not count".


Say honest.

[Coexist]

98. our county DEC president took, to the state party, the vote that we chose

when the decision was being made whether or not to move forward. The state party decided to do it, based on the votes of its members across the state.

We were informed that if we chose to vote to move the date up, the DNC was threatening to not seat our delegates.

[KAZ]

12. I can see a re-vote. Just keep your Dem congress-critters..

.. in line in the future! :)

[Jersey Devil]

13. Hath not a Floridian eyes?

Hath not a Floridian hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same
food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, heal'd by the same means,
warm'd and cool'd by the same winter and summer, as a New Yorker is? If you prick us, do we not bleed?
If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?
And if you wrong us, do we not revenge? If we are like you in the
rest, we will resemble you in that.

[HooptieWagon]

14. you should be pissed

and place the blame where it belongs - the Florida Legislature. A Dem introduced the bill, and Dems sided with Reps 115-1. Vote your rep out next time, unless he was the sole "Nay" vote.

[C_U_L8R]

15. You've got a legitimate beef

but it's with your own state legislature.
They couldn't follow the rules.
They were well warned of the consequences
and they went ahead and broke the rules anyway.
You do deserve a vote.. but you might want to use it
voting those clowns who made this mess out of office.

[Tribetime]

17. revote ...only fair thing to do

the only way Clinton will not be able to argue the final total of pledged delegates and popular vote. It will never end if they don't revote

[Jersey Devil]

26. How can anyone ever figure out who won the popular vote?

There was no "popular vote" in any of the caucus states, except Texas. So what would you do, count only votes in primaries?

[Tribetime]

46. I was going on RCP

showing popular vote totals. Wasn't aware these numbers were wrong, thanks for the correction.....I still think Obama will win either way.

[Fresh_Start]

19. I think the revote should count only if more people vote in revote

if more people voted on the original primary date, that vote should count

[Jersey Devil]

30. But there were probably lots of people who didn't vote because

they were told that their vote would not count. Wouldn't they also be disenfranchised in a re-do where only the original voters were permitted to vote?

[Fresh_Start]

36. if fewer people vote the second time.....

why should fewer people's votes matter more than more peoples votes?

[Jersey Devil]

63. Well, they'll just have to vote again, that's all

I don't understand what you are trying to say. It is your moral obligation as a citizen to vote in my opinion. If you don't come out to vote a second time then you have no right to complain.

[jsmirman]

65. People who voted despite being told their votes wouldn't count WON'T

vote in a primary where they are told that their votes WILL count.

This is what they would have us believe. This is the level of stupidity/insanity that is being peddled here.

Quite something, really.

[Fresh_Start]

69. It's their moral obligation to vote....and they voted

on the date their state government selected.

There were important STATE initiatives on the ballot. So the MORAL people voted on the designated date.
The MORAL voters didn't choose the date.
The MORAL voters knew that the STATE initiatives required their presence at the vote.
The MORAL voters didn't agree to the DNC compromise
The MORAL voters showed up and voted.

But for some reason you think the non-MORAL voters who didn't bother to vote on the date their state selected should be given special treatment.

edited to correct spelling typos

[Jersey Devil]

90. Your argument is pure nonsense

The only reason anyone would be disenfranchised by a re-do primary is if they are too damned lazy to get up off their asses and vote. If they won't that is their problem.

[Fresh_Start]

92. the only way someone was disenfranchised by the set primary date

was because they were too damned lazy to get up off their asses and vote.
If they didn't that is their problem.

[Jersey Devil]

100. There must be an echo in here

x

[lewis_in_fw]

105. wow you just got pwned. haahha *NT*

[Emit]

27. You need to take that question to your local politicians

Dems and Repubs, who made that decision for you.

[madfloridian]

33. Talk to these folks.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1890

[Jawja]

37. Why shouldn't your vote count?

BECAUSE FLORIDA HELD THEIR PRIMARY IN VIOLATION OF THE RULES, AND YOU VOTED KNOWING THAT YOUR VOTE WOULD NOT COUNT.

WHAT PART OF "THE RULES" AND "YOUR VOTE WILL NOT COUNT" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?? :eyes:

[billyoc]

43. Of course your vote should count! But it doesn't, I suggest you get a better state government. nt

[eggman67]

50. Nah, who needs Florida

We've done so well without it in the past.....

:sarcasm:


Of course your vote should count.

[Mithreal]

52. The nomination is a party thing and your disenfrachisement is a hoax

I am all for a revote at the cost of the the Florida Democratic Party.

The Florida Democratic leaders wanted to play games, lie and lead a propaganda war against the DNC and Howard Dean. Your leaders voted for the rules and decided to break them. Hold them accountable, DON'T try and scapegoat honorable and honest people who are principled and true.

With that said, I do think that there needs to be changes to the primary system but change the process through legitimate means, not a whole lot of whining. Read Madfloridian's journal to get some answers if that is what you want. We have someone right here on DU who has meticulously documented the issue and still there are people who are confused, maybe it is too early for the truth?

Anyway, I do agree that the system is flawed, so help fix it.

[jsmirman]

62. TSDR

that should stand for "too sensible, didn't read"

as apparently that's how it works around here.

[peace13]

58. I am sorry but this primary election is based on rules

that were agreed upon by all before it started. Your state agreed that the Dem votes would not count. Your candidate agreed that the vote would not count. I am sure that you heard about this before the election. Did you make calls and tell your neighbors or contact the local Dem headquarters. You should have. We have to follow the rule of law or we have no laws.

[LisaM]

75. Yeah, but the rules weren't fair to begin with.

Iowa and New Hampshire should not be consistently allowed to determine who the nominees are. They are not very representative of the country as a whole. Florida and Michigan are both swing states, and we haven't won a GE since both were blue. So the DNC SCREWED UP by denying them an early voice to begin with.

Of course, in hindsight, if they'd kept their later dates, their votes would have counted. But it doesn't usually play out that way.

Oh, and in both cases, the state legislature tried to change it back. In Florida, the Republicans voted it down, and in Michigan, the Republicans filibustered a budget bill to keep the vote from coming to the table. So when the power play didn't work, Democrats in both states attempted to change back.

Now the voters in those states are being penalized.

[movonne]

60. Well you can vote in the general election..I know how must feel...but

I do feel the rules count...

[surfin]

64. Your vote should not count because of all those who did not vote

It needs to be done over. They could make it real simple, give each 50% of the delegates and hope you all learned your lesson.

Think about those that did not vote because it did not count, what about them? Don't be like the clintons with me me me.

[BalancedGoat]

68. I agree 100%, your vote should count.

As should the votes of all the people who stayed home because they were told that it wouldn't count. Which is why I feel that the only reasonable solution is to have a re-vote.

[sniffa]

72. yes

[HockeyMom]

73. As I did, you knew when you voted

that your vote would not count. The majority of Florida voters went to the polls voting for the Homestead Amendment and since they were there anyway, voted for the Democratic candidate.

As a new transplant, I have to say that Florida should not be given preferential treatment over the other states. They did not abide by the rules, again, and must pay the consequences,even if that means disenfranchising the voters. I knew this and so did you.

Get over it. Florida is just one more state among 50. 2000 was enough. Get with the program. Florida is not any more important than any other state.

[ShaneGR]

74. "As a new transplant"

Srry, I've lived here for 10 years. My vote should matter.

[Maribelle]

83. I have a concern for the many winter residents that voted in our area leaving to go north.

As you know, down in Southwest Florida, there are many that have chosen to have Collier County as their legal address, for tax purposes and for voting, that will be leaving to go north shortly.

And another concern I have is that John Edwards and other candidates were on the ballots originally; will they be if a re-do happens?

I have yet to be convinced that a re-do would be any more equitable than the original.

[HockeyMom]

84. I don't think they should re-do either

I am not going to vote again if they do. They cannot break the rules and get away with it, even if that means my vote will not count. Sorry, but I simply don't trust this state since 2000.

If I didn't have to become a resident and vote here, I wouldn't have. But I work here, own property here, so I had to vote here. I did not move here by choice. As soon as I can retire, I fully intend to move away.

[Maribelle]

80. Most voters that believe the Governor, the two senators, local officials,

and the sample ballot they received in the mail from their Supervisor of Elections knew their votes would count. And they did count.

On election eve when John Kerry went on national tv saying the votes would not count, it totally defied the efforts of thousand of caring Floridians that had worked hard to get the word out the votes would count.

Those that chose to believe the lying Kerry might have thought their votes would not count.

[Medusa]

78. It "counted"

The votes were tabulated and a winner was declared. However, no delegates are being awarded because your state chose to violate the rules as to the scheduling of their primary. Everyone knew the rules going in. Obama wasn't even on the primary ballot in Michigan and did not campaign in Florida. And I suspect that if Hillary were ahead that certain people here wouldn't be whining about making them count. It's not as if no one kept you from voting by any stretch of the imagination.

[Balbus]

79. You guys fucked it up in 2000...

So, no, you should never, ever, ever, be allowed to vote again. Ever.

[GetTheRightVote]

82. I hate to say this but no, If the Dems of Fl had not broken the rules

then yes. It is time that we truly become the party that goes by the rules and do not lie to win no matter what happens.

It is an obvious bit on the Clinton side to over true the results so far.

Are we not sick of being used by the party top politicians or are we going to keep cheating to win ????

I am a Floridian so I know what it means to be true blue.

[Cronus Protagonist]

94. It was the Republicans in Florida who broke the Democratic rules

The state Democratics had no choice in the matter.

[kcass1954]

85. I wish mine counted too. And if the FL legislature had been willing to play

by the rules, it would.

Here's a vote you can make count though - see if your state rep is on the list at the link. If so, work to get someone else elected in your district.

http://www.myfloridahouse.com/Sections/Bills/floorvote.aspx?VoteId=8069&BillId=35049&SessionId=54&SessionIndex=-1&BillText=&BillNumber=537&BillSponsorIndex=0&BillListIndex=0&BillTypeIndex=0&BillReferredIndex=0&HouseChamber=H&BillSearchIndex=0

[Maribelle]

88. erm Do you know anything about Southwest Florida?

75% Republican, perhaps.

[Life Long Dem]

86. Have the revotes or do what you guys need to do to feel in this. No but

just I think the blame should be pinned on the rule breakers so this doesn't keep happening whenever a state wants to jump ahead and not go back to their original schedule.

[kitkat65]

87. Well, if you wanted your vote to count why didn't you speak up about it

BEFORE the election when the playing field was still level? That's what I don't get. Why no public outcry until NOW? And manufactured by whom to benefit who?

Why, oh, why does Florida have to repeatedly fuck EVERYTHING up??!!

[elixir]

91. Agreed.

[IsItJustMe]

93. Beyond my pay grade to determine that guy.

[TexanDem]

95. Force your State Legislators to provide you do-over

It's the legislators that screwed the voters. They knew they were going against the rules but went ahead and did so anyway. They are the ones who disinfranchised you guys, not the Dem party.

[speedbird]

96. about the mail-in 're-do' ...

who gets to vote?

keep on mind that it is possible some choose not
to vote, because they knew their votes
would not be used to choose delegates

[progressoid]

101. In a perfect world, your elected officials wouldn't have been douchebags and try to cheat the system

[yardwork]

102. Due to some kind of screw-up I don't totally understand, your primary vote doesn't count.

Cheer up. I live in North Carolina, which doesn't have a primary until May, so my primary vote *never* counts. All my preferred candidates have always already dropped out by the time the coronation train pulls into my town.

At least this year, your vote counted by influencing the media.

[Danger Mouse]

106. A re-vote would be fair.

[wileedog]

107. It would be fair but..

..its $20 million down the crapper to vote in an election that is for the most part over.

Even a sweeping victory in FL does little to change the eventual outcome.

Unless we're going to let Hillary try and strong-arm SDs in Denver.

[canadian_is_cold]

108. I wonder if anyone would be complaining about a "do-over" if Obama had won in Florida ? n/t

[jazzjunkysue]

109. If you can afford a re-vote, go for it.

Interesting, though, that it didn't matter until after March 4.

Why weren't we screaming this from the moment the votes were invalid?

Cause Hillary was winning then!

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

110. No, it shouldn't.

Your (our) party and your (our) candidates and your state is filled with clusterfucks. So, no, it shouldn't.

I'll tell Florida what I tell my parakeet: quit being so fucking stupid.

[cindyw]

111. A vote can only count when a fair election is held.

Ask yourself this. When a white man voted in a 1896 election that prevented a black man from voting, should we have worried about disenfranchising the white man. No we should not. An unfair is election is not a democratic election. It an exercise and should not count.

[lewis_in_fw]

112. MadFloridan says: "Rules are Rules are Rules are Rules are Rules are Rules" ... SO NO *NT*

[madfloridian]

123. Didn't you just say that in another thread? Or maybe two? LOL.

:rofl:

I need to find that...maybe three times now.

It's ok. I do believe in rules.

[eridani]

114. Have another election. Having a 2008 election in 2007 is fucking stupid

Besides being against the rules.

[Slagathor]

115. No. It shouldn't count.

Your state broke the rules. Period. Your vote doesn't count. Nor should it.

A primary is NOT a general election.

[JVS]

116. You participated in a poll which you knew was invalid. A valid DNC approved polling would be fine.

[pampango]

117. I live in Ohio. Shouldn't your state have to follow the same rules that my does?

What about the Florida voters who didn't bother, because they were told the vote didn't count? Record numbers voted, but who knows how many didn't bother, but would have if they thought it would count. Do they matter?

Clinton has every right to stay in the race, even if the delegate math is unforgiving, and rely on the superdelegates to do it for her. That is within the rules. The sds can vote for whomever they want, regardless of what each side says while lobbying them.

Likewise Obama has a right to campaign for votes and delegates in every state, as does Clinton. If it is unfair to Clinton to attemtp to restrict what the sds can do, it is unfair to Obama to restrict campaigning, since in many states he has proven to be able to reduce big poll advantages for Clinton and make races competitive.

I would like to think that going into the 2012 or 2016 nomination process, we will have a set of rules that all the candidates will agree to. This would include the schedule of primaries and caucuses, whether states should have primaries (open or closed?) or caucuses, the role of superdelegates, etc. If Florida and Michigan get away with unilaterally breaking the rules without penalty, how do we make sure that the party has a set of agreed to and enforceable rules for the nomination process in 2012?

[Recursion]

118. I haven't heard anybody being against a re-vote (nt)

[DemVet]

119. The only people punished in Florida and Michigan were the voting public

Have the revotes I say, make em count.

Exactly. Who in the hell are we to whine about Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004 if we don't count the votes of the citizens of these two important states?

We are shooting ourselves in the foot on this one if we don't. I can just see the R's licking their lips if we don't count the votes from these two states. Our success depends on it.

[krkaufman]

121. Certainly, every vote cast in a free and fair, open election should count.

Which excludes the previously held MIchigan and FLorida primaries. Hold new elections where candidates can campaign and they're all on the ballot, and no problem will exist.

Conducting new elections is the only thing that makes sense.

[FlyingSquirrel]

124. I personally don't think it matters whether they campaigned in FL

In the era of television, let the votes in FL stand as-is, go ahead and count them. MI on the other hand probably should be re-done. However, if MI is not re-done it would be fine by me to count it as-is, with the only stipulation being that ALL the "uncommitted" votes go to Obama. Even though some voting uncommitted would have voted Edwards or some other candidate. That would be good enough for me. Hillary can only pick up an extra 56 delegates plus maybe 10 supers this way between MI and FL, and that will not be enough to swing the election to her the way Obama's going.

That's my opinion with regard to the logistics of it, and I'm an Obama supporter.

However, with regard to the DNC's right to set its own rules, that's another issue. If MI and FL were able to get away with violating the rules, next year we could see nearly every state holding primaries and caucuses in January or early February. That's too soon.

So perhaps they should compromise by allowing MI and FL to seat HALF of their delegates, and NOT hold new elections. That would probably satisfy all but the most rabid supporters of both Clinton and Obama.

[Tribetime]

125. Chuck Todd estimated 54-46 Clinton

Florida, but Obama 54-46 in Michigan so he called it a wash earlier on Russert today. I do think both states should be counted for sure.

[DrFunkenstein]

126. Florida Unfairly Jumped Other States and Influenced The Election

Why should they get a second chance when they broke the rules, jumped other states, and now complain about having to live with the consequences.