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Will overzealous Obama supporters succeed in alienating the Clinton supporters?

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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:12 PM
Original message
Poll question: Will overzealous Obama supporters succeed in alienating the Clinton supporters?
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 09:12 PM by Onlooker
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. LOL! After months of HRC supporters touting her "inevitability" and slamming any other candidates
this is really *rich*...


:eyes:


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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Actually I'm an Obama supporter ...
... and have been one, but am discouraged by the amount of vitriol. If Obama supporters think he is going to win (and I certainly think so), it's critical that we line up all the Clinton supporters. There is no choice. Otherwise, Obama will have to waste time like McCain trying to woo his base. And, frankly, I know a lot of Clinton supporters, and politically they are just about as progressive as Obama supporters. (My spouse is a Clinton supporter.)
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hueyshort Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Obama people have been Smearing Clinton on the web for months
There is no way he could not know about it.
By looking the other way, he has cheapened himself.
This is Rookie fighting.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. I think you'll find that 99% of posts touting her inevitability
were from Clinton haters pretending that Clinton has said she was inevitable.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. On DU, perhaps....... In real life, this is not an issue.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. They're just bullies.
Big blowharded bullies, that's all.
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marlo Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hilarious...
As if Clinton ISN'T doing a great job herself of aliening Democrats with her scorched earth policy. Engage in projection much? There is NO WAY IN HELL that I'll vote for her.

What fucking planet do you Clinton supporters live on? Really?
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I agree.
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. What planet do you live on?
I support Obama but realize he's simply run a clever campaign. The whole racism meme was exaggerated and false, but brilliant politics. His stand on the war is exaggerated, since he actually made a few ambiguous comments early in the war and to my knowledge wasn't a leader of the anti-war movement (which I've been active in). His stand on NAFTA is essentially no different than Clintons, and his stand on health insurance is the same sucking up to insurance companies that Clinton offers. But, I support him because I think he can win. The perception of Clinton is so bizarrely biased that it comes off more like a sickness. The fact is, we could strengthen Obama's chances by all pledging to support the Democratic nominee rather than by trying to generate memes that turn either candidate into a monster.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. I agree with almost everything you say about Obama, and disagree with you on Clinton.
I don't agree on the racism thing. It wasn't either/or. The Clinton's started it, and he exploited their mistake brilliantly for political gain. I agree with you on every other Obama point. And at the same time, I also believe that Clinton has engaged in absolute scorched earth tactics and proven that the only thing she cares about is herself, and the only thing her campaign cares about is winning at all costs -- including trashing the party, screwing the voters, and leaving a disaster in her wake.

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hueyshort Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Um, Scorched Earth Tactics?
have you been reading the posts by Obama supporters in DU?
Obama pees in his pants, so it's Clinton's fault?
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Clinton has lacked subtety
IMO the real strength of the Obama campaign is that they've blinded people to their tactics by the refrains of unity, hope, and change, but their tactics have been about as aggressive as Clinton's. Also, given that Obama basically has Clinton's views on issues, his decision to run in the first place was pointless and destructive, so I believe both of them, and, frankly, anyone else who wants to President, have huge ego issues. To my knowledge, Obama has not done much to reign in his nastiest supporters, and that's his form of scorched earth. Again, I support Obama (which is important to repeat since many Obama supporters take any criticism of him as sacrilege), but I have no illusions about him.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. Again, about 50/50 agreement I think
I partially agree that Obama has been a better campaigner than Clinton, by successfully playing political hardball without looking like a poor loser, an angry man, or a divisive politician. Both campaigns are playing for keeps, but I have to say that I do feel like I perceive a bit of a difference in the tactics utilized and most importantly - where the line is drawn between in bounds and out of bounds.

Certainly were not talking about "Obama the gentle saint running a hello kitty campaign" vesus "Clinton the root of all evil sowing satanic perversion wherever she goes" - its more subtle than that. But are there differences between the campaigns? Yes, enough to characterize the Clinton camp as a group of strategists who believe that all politics is war, and that nothing matters as long as you win, and that winning involves the personal categorical destruction of your opponent and any opposition standing in your way, no matter who it is, at any costs.

I may disagree with you if you feel that Obama's message is purely vapor. That charge gets leveled a lot, and its fair that it does, since its the sign of a critically thinking individual, and I appreciate that. There is a difference between policy positions and political philosophy. And I believe that policy wise Obama is a center-left politician. I wouldn't go as far as to lump him in with the center-right DLC, but he is certainly not a champion of radical left politics by any stretch of the imagination. What I feel like Obama brings to the table that is different than politics is usual is a different political philosophy.

First of all, Obama didn't just invent his themes of hope and unity for this election. Like them or not, believe they are superficial or not, they have been a stable of his basic political philosophy for as long as he has been around. I actually believe that Obama is a "visionary" - I know visionary is usually a complimentary term, but in this case I mean it to be neutral. I call Obama the George Lakoff candidate, which is exactly what I think this country needs as STEP ONE toward a more progressive society. The first step won't be taken by staunch progressives. It will be taken by someone able to bridge the gap between politics and usual and a climate in which serious progressive discussions can be entertained and supported by the public.

The interesting thing about Obama's career is that instead of taking a "triangulation" approach to politics where you move the left more to the center in order to say "see, democrats are really 'mainstream' too, we just do what you want republicans to do better than they do" he takes the re-framing approach, and is presenting a way of talking about politics and envisioning mainstream America that excites people and begins the process of shifting the american center back to the left. His definition of unity is persuasive rather than capitulating, and he is a masterful, masterful user of frames, which is what the democratic party desperately needs. We have been out "framed" by republicans for decades.

I believe that Obama actually believes in the possibility of a more united american electorate, and when he speaks of unity, he does so in a way that beings this re-framing process. He eloquently talks about center-left democratic ideas and gets the public to listen - on both sides of the spectrum, and as they start to become interested, he not only successfully shows how such ideas are really good for all american and in the countries best interest, but also gently plants the seed into the minds of the people that oh, by the way, this is what democrats have always been about.

I support Obama because I believe we need a George Lakoff candidate who has the eloquence and the appealing personality to begin to create a cultural shift in ideology and a deconstruction of political language that has been defined by the hard right for too long. His policies will be moderate, but the purpose of his presidency will be to re-frame public debate, and work with Howard Dean to deliver that message to 50 states, and work with Dean to elect a new generation of democrats into the party - democrats who are also of the George Lakoff stripe, who can continue to facilitate a language change in the public and lay the foundation where more progressive Democratic candidates would be tolerated.

I see the same policy positions in Hillary Clinton, but I see nothing in her political philosophy that I would characterize as being a Lakoff candidate, and nothing in her political philosophy that reflects any interest in re-framing the political discussion and transforming the party - Clinton to me represents politics as usual. Maybe the next four or eight years under Clinton would a little bit better than the last eight years, but in the end absolutely nothing about the political culture and climate would substantially change, and thus there would be no ability to introduce the next level of more progressive dialog into the political mainstream.

Now, I disagree with you completely that Obama's decision to run was destructive or divisive because his policies are similar to Clinton's. I disagree mainly because I do see a strong difference between the two candidates which I've just described.

I agree with you about egos - if you're running for President, you've got a big one. That's just the way it is. However, the real question is whether or not a candidate is willing to subordinate his or her ego to the interests of the party, and to the interests of the country, or whether or not ego and ego alone will drive all decisions. As a matter of personal opinion, with nothing but anecdotal evidence, I believe that if roles had been reversed, and Obama was down like Clinton has been, he would have conceded the race already with the interests of party and country in mind.

I don't agree with you that Obama hasn't done much to reign in his nastiest supporters, but that's mainly because I'm not sure who these nasty supporters are you are talking about? Obama isn't the one who has state campaign chapters issuing memos calling Obama a terrorist. His campaign isn't the one endorsing the republican nominee over his democratic rival. His campaign isn't the one that, when presented with a stupid question about the faith of his rival, answers in such a way as to deliberately equivocate in order to keep fueling the media coverage of a lie and character smear. And when one of this chief campaign advisor's was caught off the record saying that Clinton was a "monster" she was forced to resign.

I don't take criticism of Obama has heresy. I criticize him, and I criticize a lot of Obama supporters. But I KNOW why I support him.
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hueyshort Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. winning Ohio, TX, NY and CA
proves she doesn't have a prayer ;-)
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. Because of the Obama supporters, this just might be my first
year ever to not vote. I was for Edwards and when he dropped out I said I'd vote for the Dem nominee no matter what. But after reading some of this shit on DU, I'm getting more and more turned off by Obama. I think he's an empty suit.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Please don't let the ugly things that have been said on this board
convince you not to vote. Regardless who you support right now, we will need every Democratic vote we can muster this fall to do what's best for our country.

The opinions you read here are in no way indicative of the real world and I'm convinced that many of them are posted by people who do not have any intention of voting for either of our candidates in the general election. A lot of that will go away once the nominee has been determined. Hang in there.
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Of course you're right, Granny. I just think it's discouraging that
Dems are no different than Freeps when you get right down to it. I will vote, but may have to hold my nose to do it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Umm these are a bunch of threads of other hillbots crying?
I was expecting them to be threads linking to the horrible behavior of Obama supporters.... kind of would have made your point a bit stronger.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
10. DU - irrelevant to the general election.
Sorry, I love us, but we constitute a political fringe, and .00001% of the electorate.

If every Hillary supporter here threw a fit and refused to put the interests of the country ahead of their personal egos, it wouldn't make a lick of difference.

For the record, I've said the same things about Obama supports who've come out and said they would refuse to vote for Hillary. A bunch of fucking disgraces in my book. If Hillary's the nominee, after my anger and sadness, I would absolutely vote for her in the interests of America.

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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. Maybe but 100,000 x 5 is a lot of people and then
multiply that by 5 again and you see where I'm going...

I think votes have already been usurped from both candidates by the bias on DU and DKOS.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
20. The other way around.
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Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. They don't have the power to alienate me
I do what I want, when I want, and don't listen to all the whing, anyway.
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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
22. A GOOD READ
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elizm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
23. I think Hillary will do a pretty good job of that herself. nt
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
24. The train runs both ways, people. You need us as much as we need you. nt
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
26. Will Hillarys endorsment of John McCain cost Obama the GE??
Thats the real question.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. It has already happened!!!
I volunteered for Hillary's campaign in NJ and also have close contacts with people in FL and PA. The consensus is: no Hillary anywhere on the ticket, no vote for the Democratic party in November.

The party can't dismiss the wishes of 13M people so easily. So, either they need to find a way for these two people to run together or they can start getting used to saying: President McCain.

:shrug:
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hulklogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
28. The zealots have already alienated many Clinton supporters.
I doubt it will hurt him much in the GE. Who else are alienated Democrats going to vote for, McBush?
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newfie4 Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
30. they've driven about 70% of them out of DU
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
31. Get over it!
If I held everything against Clinton that's been said to me by her supporters here, I'd have to leave the country!

No, I don't like Clinton, but that's 100% Clinton's fault and 0% her supporters' fault.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
32. They already have. n/t
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eggman67 Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Quite right. n/t
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
34. Hillary already said Mccain over Obama...
so i guess they'll vote mccain
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
35. Already happening....Too late for the polling......
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 12:25 AM by BenDavid
I may not be speaking for all the hrc supporters but I can speak for myself when I say the turning point for me was when obama and his staff with a few willing mediawhores played the race card and the willing media reported both clintons played the race card......

Obama knowing damn well that bill nor Hillary were bigots or racists but when this was going strong during January all obama did was sit back on his ass and said nothing. Well hell, he did not need to say nothing since he was the one that started this. There was no need for either Clinton to play the race card becasue they had a good percentage of the black community in South Carolina, so I ask the following two questions:Who was it that got us to stop fighting the Bush bastards so we could fight each other? Who gained power by splitting the party and getting Democrats to fight Democrats? Both, I answer with one, Barak Obama.....
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