Why the heck did Obama take his name off the MI Ballot???????

[Little Star]

Inexperience is the only thing I can come up with. Kuch was smarter than to do that. Even I would have never chosen to do that with out a WRITTEN pledge by ALL the other candidates.

[NeedleCast]

1. Why did Biden? Gravel? Edwards?

Come on...

[MonkeyFunk]

16. Gravel didn't

neither did Dodd.

[anonymous171]

31. That Edwards is so inexperienced.

:sarcasm:

[MonkeyFunk]

52. Well, he sorta is

ran once for the Senate and won. That's the sum of his electoral victories.

[PassingFair]

72. You forgot...

Richardson

[IronLionZion]

105. Biden, Richardson, and Dodd are inexperienced

it takes experience to break the rules you agreed too. EXPERIENCE!!!

I think I can do without Hillary's experience. We're not electing a first lady, and even if we were my vote would still go to Michelle.

[democrattotheend]

2. Edwards did too

Probably to avoid offending voters in Iowa and New Hampshire. Same reason Clinton said before Iowa that she knew Michigan would not count.

[Lucinda]

3. To pander to Iowa.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

13. Because the DNC said the delegates would not count in FL and MI nt

[Lucinda]

17. To pander to Iowa. If he'd taken his name off in Florida I'd accept your argument.

He didn't.

[democrattotheend]

22. I don't think Florida allowed them to remove their names

That's what I heard...not sure if it's right

[Lucinda]

29. They could have, but I believe there WERE timing issues involved.

[PassingFair]

73. Timing Issues?

:crazy:

In Florida, if the candidates had taken their name
off the ballot, they would not have been allowed
a spot in the General Election.

Timing?

:crazy:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

106. Pandering is what Hillary Clinton knows best, so maybe we need to remove that discussion

since the folks she's pandering to are the ones she shouldn't even be looking at.

[Little Star]

20. It was not to smart. The rules have always allowed for

the possibility to either redo or go fight it out at the convention. He's got to be at least smart enough to know that.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

102. It wasn't just Dean. It was the DNC. This has turned voting into a sham nt

[Yossariant]

4. Aw, shucks...just another "boneheaded" move on his part. More bad judgment.

[featherman]

5. Everybody was supposed to. Clinton did not comply

On edit, thought this was common knowledge. Didn't realize it would need a link. Sheesh.

"The Democratic National Committee asked the candidates to withdraw from Michigan’s primary after the state legislature moved it Jan. 15. Democratic Party rules prohibit states other than Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada from holding their nominating contests before Feb. 5."

http://www.uwire.com/2007/10/10/5-democrats-want-off-michigan-primary-ballot-due-to-early-date/

[Little Star]

14. NOT TRUE. Got a link?

[MonkeyFunk]

19. Wrong

nobody was "supposed" to.

Some chose to in order to pander to early state voters.

They knew Clinton would win MI, so they felt it wouldn't hurt them.

[elixir]

30. Here's the pledge. It says nothing about names being off or on the ballot:

THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules, pledge to actively campaign in the pre-approved early states Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window (any date prior to February 5, 2008). Campaigning shall include but is not limited to purchasing media or campaign advocacy of any kind, attending or hosting events of more than 200 people to promote one’s candidacy for a preference primary and employing staff in the state in question. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.

[Little Star]

43. Than You

[PassingFair]

75. From your link....

snip> "Clinton’s campaign issued a statement saying she would remain on the ballot because she has a different interpretation of DNC rules than the withdrawn candidates."

:rofl:

I BET she had a different "interpretation" of the rules.

The RULES are not meant for HER.

[jgraz]

6. I guess he underestimated the slime potential of the Clinton Ambition Machine

Don't worry, he's not going to do that again.

[kikiek]

15. Oh don't forget the slime potential of the Kucinch machine too. He left his on also.

Could it be he was following DNC orders? Gasp!!!!

[jgraz]

18. Kucinich hasn't been the one trying to cheat and endorsing the Repug candidate

[kikiek]

23. No Kuchinch isn't the one running against the slime machine Obama.

[jgraz]

49. Oh cry me a fucking river

Obama hasn't even started the kind of slime that Hillary has. Has he mentioned Norman Hsu? Or Marc Rich? How about Brenda Stronach?

You aren't going to hear that from Obama, because he's already wrapped up the nomination. But if Hillary continues her bullshit attempts to pull a Bush v Gore, I'm guessing you're going to get a crash course in the true depths of depravity that your girl has engaged in.

[kikiek]

50. I don't need to cry you a fucking river. Your candidate is doing it daily for ya

[jgraz]

51. He's your candidate too. You just haven't figured it out yet.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

103. Could I ask you why you support Hillary Clinton? I'm not being facetious.

I really want to know specifics about what attracts you to her as a candidate. If you wouldn't mind.

[elixir]

62. Bush v Gore? What the heck are you talkin' about?

So now Hillary's questioning of Obama's ability to lead is the same as *'s swiftboating of Kerry?

[jgraz]

65. Do you even know what Bush v Gore references?

Hint: it has nothing to do with swiftboating.

But now that you mention it, I think we all should be thankful that Kerry decided not to run against Hillary this year. I'm sure her staff would be walking around with purple heart band-aids right about now.

[Rageneau]

96. He can't mention Marc Rich or Noman Hsu because they have NOTHING to do with Hillary.

You want Obama to bring up Norman Hsu? Why not have him bring up Attilla the Hun while you're at it? Attila has as much association with Clinton as Hsu does.

If you don't believe that -- if you insist that a candidate like Hillary is guilty of any crime a campaign donor like Hsu commits -- then you must agree that anything Rezko is found guilty of, Obama is guilty of, too.

Right?

[Little Star]

24. you are off topic. Kuch left his name on for the same reason Hillary

did. He has experience.

[featherman]

36. Wrong about Kucinich... he tried to get his off too

Here is link

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080103/NEWS06/801030383/1008

[kikiek]

41. Doesn't sound too bothered by it.

Mike Whitty, a Birmingham resident and Kucinich volunteer, said the campaign changed its mind about campaigning in Michigan because of its ability to seize on the lack of activity.

"I think it's fair to say he's reversed field on his initial decision," he said. "Since his name remained on the ballot, they've looked at Michigan as an opportunity to fill a vacuum."

[featherman]

47. LOL... yes, Dennis then took a shot at MI .... why not?

[kikiek]

54. And hello everyone it wasn't a promise to take names off. Not campaign. Who was DNC? Obama.

All of the Democratic presidential candidates already promised the national party that they will not campaign in either Michigan or Florida, even though both states are particularly valuable prizes in the general election.

Party leaders in both states remain defiant, saying they will hold the primaries on their chosen dates and predicting that the media will treat the outcomes as significant even if there are no delegates at stake.

And some party leaders say the delegates from Michigan and Florida could end up attending the convention in the end.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/01/AR2007120100722.html

[elixir]

64. Interesting graphs in your link...

Michigan's Democratic primary is something of an also-ran because several candidates -- Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware, former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson -- removed their names from the ballot.

Officially, they pulled their names in deference to national Democratic rules governing which states go first in the nominating process. ****Unofficially, analysts say, they did so to deprive Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York of momentum she would gain in Michigan, where she is the front-runner.****

[PassingFair]

76. For the HUNDREDTH time...he TRIED to remove his name from the ballot, too.

He had the wrong signatures on the wrong
notarized copies.

Terri Lynn Land REFUSED to remove him.

[elixir]

35. Were the others avoiding the Clinton Ambition Machine also?

Does you sig mean you'll be 70% behind Clinton, Nader or McCain next?

[Recursion]

7. Because all of them agreed to...

...and Clinton is a lying, cheating piece of ****.

[Little Star]

28. If they all agreed, I suppose you are calling Kuch a

lying, cheating piece of **** also. Where is the link proving they ALL agreed?

[CyberPieHole]

46. No one agreed to do that...

Obama is a and dumb ****** for doing it.

[MonkeyFunk]

53. None of them agreed to

the only lying pieces of shit are those who keep repeating that lie.

[BeatleBoot]

8. Leaders Show Up. He didn't show up.

[tabatha]

11. Leaders obey the rules.

Obama obeyed the rules.

[Cronus Protagonist]

21. Hahaha, you make me laugh!

Haven't laughed that hard all day. Thanks!

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

33. you are a believer leader doesnt have rules to follow. bush/clinton. become one.... n.t

[Little Star]

32. Link to those rules you talk about?

[Little Star]

37. See pledge posted above.

[elixir]

38. The rules didn't specify names on or off the balllot:

THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules, pledge to actively campaign in the pre-approved early states Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window (any date prior to February 5, 2008). Campaigning shall include but is not limited to purchasing media or campaign advocacy of any kind, attending or hosting events of more than 200 people to promote one’s candidacy for a preference primary and employing staff in the state in question. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.

[Grown2Hate]

97. Honest question...

wouldn't having your name on the ballot = participation in that election? "I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC".

:shrug:

[kikiek]

94. No the rules allowed names on ballots. Just no campaigning. And the only

one to campaign in Fl was...OBAMA! gasp.

[snappyturtle]

9. Because he pledged to the DNC not to run in any states other

than the four sanctioned before Feb.5th.

[boston bean]

27. The pledge was not for the DNC, get your facts straight. The candidates

signed a pledge amongst themselves to not campaign in MI or FL to appease NH and IA.

Not to campaign there. Not take their names off, not to not count votes.

People really need to educate themselves. No one pledged anything to the DNC.

[elixir]

44. Well put MassDem. :hi:

[snappyturtle]

101. Here's a link to the pledge that Sen. Obama signed...yes, it was

for not campaigning in FL and MI......no reference to appeasement. More Democratic candidates than not removed their names from the MI ballot. It was an honorable thing to do in light of the pledge to the DNC. If this isn't a pledge to the DNC....what is it? I did not say the DNC created the pledge. Is that misconception: why you jumped all over me to "get your facts straight"?

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/070831_Final_Pledge.pdf

In the pledge Sen. Obama signed he pledged not to...."campaign or participate" in other states, other than the four designated by the DNC, prior to Feb. 5th. He honored his pledge by removing his name from the MI ballot.

[Little Star]

34. Then why did he leave his name on in FL? Did he break his

pledge? Gimme a break!

[elixir]

45. I think we've pretty much wrapped this thing up.

[Oilwellian]

99. No, not yet...

There's just this one little thing I haven't seen addressed. Please tell me what you get out of this part of the pledge:

I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC.

Now tell me, what does "not campaign or participate in" mean to you? I look forward to your answer. :rofl:

[enki23]

10. kucinich doesn't fucking count

and hillary is running a sleazy campaign from start to finish. so that explains that one. everyone else acted honorably, as they all felt they were supposed to do. that *you* would have done the same doesn't change a goddamned thing about that.

[Yossariant]

48. Kucinich is *from* Ohio.

[MonkeyFunk]

55. LOL

my god, they don't even try to create believable lies anymore.

DK is from Michigan? :rofl:

[enki23]

58. eh. michigan, ohio. six of one, half a dozen of the other. my mistake.

obviously, i've never been a huge fan. in any case, he still doesn't much count. i'd be pissed at him if he were a frontrunner.

[MadBadger]

12. I could have sworn in a previous life you were an Edwards' person.

Am I wrong?

[meow mix]

25. because he's a loyal democrat, and wasnt planning sneaky backstabbing tactics.

like hillary

[adoraz]

26. isn't it obvious?

it was an early state, and he didn't want Hillary picking up any momentum. since he wasn't going to campaign, Hillary would have won. it was a great idea and worked out so Hillary couldn't spin the results nearly as easily. Obama would have lost MI, no question (especially if Edwards was on the card).

[CyberPieHole]

39. "BONEHEAD~ED" move on Obama's part...one in a string of many...

from snorting cocaine to buying land from Rezko...they are just "bonehead" things he did.

:kick: and rec

[fadedrose]

40. Very good question and they should ask Michigan elected officials who planned primary..

The elected officials planned the primary, set the date and had to have approved the ballot. This is where some intelligent foresight may have alleviated the whole situation. The candidates needed HONEST guidance from the state officials. They got honest info from DNC - not legitimate. The bottom line is who approved the ballot. These are professional politicians, not 7th graders having a mock election (the 7th graders would have done better).

They should have been interviewed by now on every network to find out how the screw-up occurred, but so far, none has been on...

I've sent msnbc a couple of emails asking them to interview Gov. Granholm, Sens. Levin and Stabinow, and some of the Reps who are responsible. They seem to be in hiding where the primary is concerned. I would love to hear them answer a lot of questions.

[Mooney]

42. Because he was complying with the rules. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

57. Nope

already been established that there was no such rule. You guys just make shit up.

[Mooney]

69. We do, we really do.

We sit in a darkened office together in our evil think tank and coordinate fabricated attacks against Hillary Clinton.

It's because we're bad people.

[TheDoorbellRang]

56. Oh for goodness sake. Google is your friend. Here!

Kucinich messed up his paperwork for withdrawing his name.

Kucinich Campaign Misses Deadline, Will Appear on Michigan Ballot

Despite an announcement on the presidential campaign website for Dennis Kucinich stating that an affidavit for withdrawal had been filed with the Michigan Secretary of State's office shortly before deadline yesterday, officials in Michigan indicated that, at this time, the Ohio Congressman will remain on the Democratic primary ballot.

"Michigan law clearly outlines the procedure to be followed if a candidate wishes not to appear on the ballot," explained Ken Silfven, a spokesman for the office. "An affidavit has to be signed by the candidate and notarized. The first affidavit received by our office was signed by the Kucinich campaign manager. While the second affidavit received in our office did contain the candidate's signature, it was not notarized."

<snip>

Silfven added that Kucinich will appear on the state's Democratic primary ballot. The only way the candidate could be removed is through litigation, he said.

more...

http://www.essentialestrogen.com/2007/10/kucinich_campaign_misses_deadl.html

And, moreover, from the same article

All of the Democratic presidential hopefuls except for Mike Gravel signed a pledge with the four early states indicating that they would not campaign, advertise or otherwise participate in contests that violated the DNC rules. While the pledges were more of a gentleman's handshake than a binding contract, many are crying foul on Clinton and Dodd for remaining in the Michigan contest.

Text of Pledge Letter

WHEREAS, over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a 2008 nominating calendar;

WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic diversity of our party and our country;

WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the nominating process, to ensure that money alone will not determine our presidential nominee;

WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the nominating calendar.

THEREFORE, I , Democratic Candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as "campaigning" is defined by the rules and regulations of the DNC. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.

That Clinton. What a "shrewd" campaigner. I guess she didn't figure leaving her name on the ballot counted as participating.

[elixir]

68. Your version is edited and misleading. See #38 for the full text.

Nothing in it about the ballot.

[TheDoorbellRang]

85. The full text makes it even more obvious. From your own post:

"I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window (any date prior to February 5, 2008)."

She can't say she didn't participate when she kept her name on the ballot. It was on the same level of participation as closing her eyes and thinking of the Empire, but participation -- yes indeed.

[johnnydrama]

59. what does this mean?

“You know,” Senator Clinton remarked, “it’s clear the election they’re having isn’t going to count for anything. Obama’s name did not even appear on the ballot in Michigan.”

[kikiek]

60. Obama's stupid. They knew they could end up seating the delegates.

[Kokonoe]

66. Obama's smart. He knew they could re-vote with a caucus

[kikiek]

67. Actually no he was told from the start they might seat the delegates. Thought he was anti DNC?

[Kokonoe]

70. I guess, but when he took his name off he was probable a big underdog.

anti DLC I would say.

[kikiek]

71. It was the DLC who decided the penalty against the states. He followed and then some.

[MonkeyFunk]

NO!!!!

It was the DNC!!!!

[thoughtcrime1984]

74. He's anti-DLC, the DNC doled out the penalties

get your facts straight. Hillary IS the DLC, which is Republican light.

[kikiek]

77. He was for it before he was against it.

[thoughtcrime1984]

79. Yeah, sure

I think Democracy shall reign supreme, the DNC led by Howard Dean will see to it that this election is done fairly. Hillary can have her DLC, which is not for representing the average citizen like the more progressive Dems are.

[kikiek]

81. Holding Barack Obama Accountable

After calls to Obama's campaign office yielded no satisfactory answers, we published an article in the June 5, 2003 issue of Black Commentator effectively calling Barack Obama out. We drew attention to the disappearance of any indication that U.S. Senate candidate Obama opposed the Iraq war at all from his web site and public statements. We noted with consternation that the Democratic Leadership Council, the right wing Trojan Horse inside the Democratic party, had apparently vetted and approved Obama, naming him as one of its "100 to Watch" that season. This is what real journalists are supposed to do --- fact check candidates, investigate the facts, tell the truth to audiences and hold the little clay feet of politicians and corporations to the fire.

Facing the possible erosion of his base among progressive Democrats in Illinois, Obama contacted us. We printed his response in Black Commentator's June 19 issue and queried the candidate on three "bright line" issues that clearly distinguish between corporate-funded DLC Democrats and authentic progressives. We concluded the dialog by printing Obama's response on June 26, 2003. For the convenience of our readers in 2007, all three of these articles can be found here.
http://www.mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=582145

[Kokonoe]

80. DLC tried to hijack Obama's name early on.

He's not DLC, thats Clinton's outfit.

[kikiek]

82. They didn't hijack anything. He used them until he was going to be nailed for it.

[thoughtcrime1984]

83. Wrong.

And why are you so eager to link Obama with the DLC? Obviously, it must be a bad thing if you want Obama to be thought as a part of it. The same bad thing that Hillary is currently the leader of. Perhaps you'd rather tackle the angle of why the DLC is so good, and why you are proud of Hillary for being part of the SOS.

[kikiek]

84. Because he has made such a big deal out of not being connected to them. He Lies A Lot.

[thoughtcrime1984]

86. I'd say Hillary is quite the liar

And where are her tax returns? We're still not going to have transparency in gov't huh? What, oh what could they be hiding?

[kikiek]

88. If you read the articles they said their tax returns are very complicated. I don't think they're

done by Turbo Tax on the computer. Has to do with their chartable foundation. Really people. All Obama has to do is start hollering about something and his surrogates obediently start the battle cry. He is more dishonest than any democratic candidate we have ever had.

[thoughtcrime1984]

92. The Clintons are full of shit and I've known that longer than I've known who Obama is!

[kikiek]

93. No bias there. Ok goodbye.

[hedgehog]

61. Kuch tried several times to get his name off the ballot but couldn't

get the right paperwork to the right person by deadline!

[ecstatic]

63. A little thing known as INTEGRITY?? nt

[robbedvoter]

78. Ummm- cuz Gravel, DK lack that?

[Liquorice]

87. Obama and Edwards took their names off

because they knew the delegates would eventually be seated, and so they wanted to make the vote appear invalid by removing their names. It was a calculated political move.

[kikiek]

89. That makes sense. Especially since it was stated they would likely be seated beforehand.

What would they call Hillary for doing such a calculated move?

[Dinger]

90. Hee Hee (nt)

[Johnny__Motown]

91. You can't be serious? He did it in support of party rules. .

[stillcool]

95. Who knew you were supposed...

to break the rules? Love how our justice system works that way too. For some.

[anamnua]

98. Michigan ballot

Personally, if there has to be a revote in Michigan, I think Obama should bankroll it with his much heralded '50 million in February'.He's the one who made the foolish decision to take his name off the ballot. He did it, let him fork out.

MI and FL have already been clobbered IMHO. They've already lost all the advertising/hotel/events revenue they would have gained from a legit primary.
The only possible reason for a revote is to give Obama an edge.Why? There was nothing unreasonable in either primary to him. He had the chance to be on both ballots. He wasn't supposed to campaign but campaign he did.
He made his bed, now let him lie in it. I'm disillusioned of everyone spoon-feeding him all the time. He wants to be president and can't live with his own decisions?

[MonkeyFunk]

100. I agree with that assessment

[Jennicut]

104. Ummmm...cause he obeyed the rules maybe?

Last time I looked that was an admirable trait in a president. After all, Shrub has his own "rules" and it looks like Hillary does too. Nice try.