"Final Rule" post tops all. Is this a turning point in the mood at DU ?

[DeadElephant_ORG]

It's 11:25 PST
In just 11 hours the post "Gary Hart: Breaking the Final Rule"

has
3864 click throughs
140 replies
and 133 recommends

I've never seen a conversation on DU with so much support.

I may be mistaken but... I think we're at a turning point in the mood towards Hillary in this forum. She seems to have far fewer defenders here than she did just a few hours ago.

[Danzo]

1. Well I Got Her Back All The Way

You can take that to the bank.

[Metric System]

Me too! I don't know wtf the OP's talking about.

[Slagathor]

46. Hillary endorsed McCain... how can you support her idiocy?

she really ought to be ashamed... and so should anyone who claims to both support her and support any sense of social justice.

[susankh4]

68. News flash:::::

Mr. McCain has more experience than Mr. Obama.

Ms. Clinton's experience level is somewhere in between theirs.

[Slagathor]

70. So you endorse McCain too? You should leave...

supporting McCain is not terribly progressive, is it?

[susankh4]

75. I endorse Hillary

Not to experienced, not too inexperienced. Not to hot. Not too cold. Not to young. Not too old.

Just right in the middle. Where most good leaders have to be, most of the time.

[Slagathor]

79. Sort of like your spelling? 50% right, 50% wrong?

or do you have some other "to" in mind...

[DeadElephant_ORG]

83. she said, given the choice between McCain and Obama, America should pick McCain.

[Slagathor]

88. Yes, and for that, she should crawl back under her rock

she is a disgrace and an embarrassment.

[JoFerret]

48. Just another lost republican with a wooden spoon.

.

[Jamastiene]

6. I got her back too.

GO MAMA!!!

[cooolandrew]

2. Phew, we only had the pary's best intrest HRC supporters. We can unite and cuddlle now. All the best

:grouphug: Ladies we love you all.xxx

[DeadElephant_ORG]

3. I don't follow...

[Zachstar]

4. We don't count things in hours here...

There are times when Clinton supporters seem more apparant than others. I pay it no mind as that has nothing to do with Exposing Clinton for what she really is.

Nobody gains anything from thinking this is a race to "Win" DU. Frankly I want the Clinton Supporters here so they can see the exposure of Clinton and perhaps they will switch.

I do not want this to just become an echo chamber. For without a Challenge we get lazy and slouch when we need to be doing more exposing of the opposition.

Once we are done exposing Clinton we will need to act HARD and FAST to expose McCain for what he really is. I highly doubt the republicans will go quietly out of the white house and we can expect them to try to rig some elections.

[XemaSab]

7. Clinton supporters work strictly 9-5 with no overtime

Barack supporters are on call 24-7. :P

[Zachstar]

8. Jokes aside let me just say that GDP has been very "Active" for quite some time...

And will continue to be active for quite some time.

We ought to be somewhat happy they are here. Without a challenge we get Lazy and Clinton can pull a fast one before we warm back up. Besides this is practice for the much nastier GE.

[Danzo]

12. Zombies Don't Sleep, After All.

Just kidding.

[XemaSab]

15. I try to sleep, but the damn phone keeps ringing at 3 AM!

x(

[Zachstar]

18. Ringing or is it *Scary Voice* Head on Ad! *Scary Voice*

Apply Directly to the Forehead!

I need to find that funny video where the guy sets the ring tone for some annoying person to that. To see it ring in public was Classic!

[PetraPooh]

26. ROFL!!!!!

[here_is_to_hope]

42. *snicker* n/t

[Adelante]

74. Cutie

:D

[Metric System]

9. Oh please! I suppose there's nothing to "expose" about Dear Leader, Obama, right?

[Zachstar]

17. Compared to Clinton... Not too much...

Common.. Just the laws of basic politics says the the longer you are in the world of politics the more dirt you generate.

It is just that with the Clintons they seem to just shovel in dirt. Sorry make that dump truck amounts of it.

Too late now... Clinton is being exposed and the voters are being given the chance to react.

And this stuff is just the very tip of the Iceburg. Some of the other things like the trial she was involved in multiple years ago make me so sick I really go to the brink of having to rush to the bathroom to puke.

[Arkansas Granny]

50. Speaking of dirt, the RW has not revved up it's slime machine against

Obama yet. And you know as well as I do that if they can't find what they want, they just make it up and they have a full lineup of shills out there to spread their garbage. Once they find a weak spot, whether real or fabricated, it will be broadcast to the public 24/7 with few voices out there to defend against it. I expect them to kick it up into high gear as soon as the Democratic candidate has been determined and I also expect it to be particularly ugly this year because the Republicans are desperate to hold on to power.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

87. the RW has not revved up against Hillary yet either - but all her old sh#t will be back in our faces

[ima_sinnic]

37. typical reactionary HRC supporter--go after Obama when yr own is so

totally indefensible.

But most of HRC's "supporters" turn out to be Limbots who were sent by the gas meister like zombies to "destroy the Democratic Party," so they really have no knowledge of or interest in her positions, qualifications, or implications for returning the country to any level of moral greatness. So far, luckily, intelligence and good sense seem to be more prevalent than they are.

[usrbs]

57. Read what you just wrote.

She wasn't who I would have chosen, but neither is Barack.

Hillary's resume impresses me more than Obama's, and I have confidence she'll be a competent leader. I have seen nothing in your guy to assure me that he would. So I support Hillary. And fuck you.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

10. boy DU has been LONG way from an "echo chamber" - more like a bitter divorce.

[joshcryer]

14. This is just another form of consumerism.

Black and white positions, my guy vs your guy (or gal), good vs bad, right vs wrong.

Ad click revenue.

;)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

66. Does the "delegate cost" include WA, IA etc...?

[Liquorice]

5. I will support Hillary all the way to the presidency. nt

[susankh4]

71. Me too!

And then some.

[Tennessee Gal]

11. I support Hillary because I believe she can get the job done.

[joshcryer]

13. Hillary defenders cannot handle the hundreds if not thousands of hateful posts a day.

Seriously, it's impossible. Psychologically and physically.

[Uben]

25. You underestimate us

We can handle anything anyone says. All you have to do is be able to recognize bullshit and tune out the damned whiners, of which there are many here.
Neither candidate can win with pledged delegates, but Obama supporters think they can whine their way to a nomination? Ha ha ha!
You can post all the threads you want, attack all you want, but we will not relent. We are in the fight till the very end. Get used to it, or get out.

[Justitia]

28. Yeah, it's going to be sooooo much easier when the RW gets ahold of you. -eom

[Name removed]

16. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[anamandujano]

19. The whole forum has turned into a BO circle jerk.

Knock yourselves out. We are resting up for later.

[Justitia]

30. I think the "jerking" is definitely a Clinton department. -eom

[susankh4]

73. Haha...

good point!

I need the rest after working so hard to win Ohio for Hill. Next is PA!

Hiho, Hiho, off to the *real* work I go.....

[jgraz]

20. Not really. Most of DU has been onto Hillary's bullshit for years

Hart's article does represent a turning point in the general population. Hillary's going to find herself increasingly isolated over the next few weeks.

[Gore1FL]

22. exactly

Using 50%+1 wedge issues doesn;t work when you need over 60% of the vopte to catch up.

Another Wolfson, Penn, and Ickes, strategic blunder.

[PetraPooh]

27. Yep, I remember nearly getting booted six months ago when I said,

"No matter what, I will not vote for Hillary" My reason at the time was strictly the dynastic concept, but she has proved to me that I just didn't realize how many reasons I would have before the primaries were over.

[LulaMay]

21. Most of the women, and men, who are voting for her in droves aren't here and probably wouldnt bother

listening to or enduring the constant hateful, sexist barrage thrown at her everyday.

Those of us who are here have left from time to time in droves too, because it is so bad.

It's been so particularly bad, vengeful of late, that I'd bet many have taken the week off, if not sworn off.


Sometimes people realize they don't need to stand around and be abused, listen to garbage, and will simply voice their opinion at the ballot box....which has clearly happened and will likely continue to happen.

You can create your own little world and believe it's real, but it often ain't.

[PetraPooh]

29. You mean Limbaugh's "patriots"?

[LulaMay]

31. No, I mean the 59% and 57% of DEM WOMEN who made up OH and TX delegates respectively. Get a clue.

[Justitia]

32. You get a clue. Clinton DID NOT get the majority of TX delegates.

Where have you been?

And oh, by the way, I'm a real, honest-to-goodness Texas Dem woman.

[Amimnoch]

33. She did win the majority of the vote by a pretty decent margin.

The caucus results are still in dispute though.

Even being a Texan though, I don't see why our delagates count for so much in the party. With you being a Texas woman, I know you know as well as I do that no matter who we field in the General, no matter how hard we push or campaign our 34 electoral votes are going to go to McCaint. Really, when was the last time Texas electoral college votes went to a Democrat?

Ohio was a FAR more important victory though. Ohio is a major swing state, and who was the last president to get elected without carrying Ohio?

oh, and by the way, I'm a real, honest-to-goodness Texas Dem man. :)

[Justitia]

36. Nope. TX Delegates: Obama - 98, Clinton - 95

And our delegates count for so much because TX has a helluva lot of Democrats in our state due to our geographic size.

RE: OH - Ohio has ONLY gone for ONE more Dem president than us since Carter and that was Clinton.
All the rest of their presidential selections have been REPUBLICANS.

So, I don't give them much more special sway than us.

Hullo fellow TX Dem! :hi: Didya caucus? Wasn't it fun?

[Amimnoch]

44. Hullo back!

I must be out of date with the results then (which wouldn't be too unusual, I try to follow as closely as i can, but lead a pretty busy life).

RE: OH - That's sort of the point I was making. President Clinton has been the only Democrat President since Jimmy. For at least decades now, every president that's been elected has had Ohio's electorate. It's considered a heavy swing state, and a presidential determiner.

We do have a helluva lot of Democrats, but still remain over-shadowed by a considerably larger Repug population. It's sort of like California is a Democratic state, but has a pretty considerate Repug base still there. The chances of California's 55 electorate votes going to McCain is pretty darn small regardless of if it's Senator Obama or Senator Clinton we nominate, despite having a large number of republicans. I may be off on this, but isn't Reagan the only Republican that's carried California in the last half century? Since President Carter, Clinton is the only candidate that has carried Ohio, but he's also the only Democrat President since Carter, which sort of goes to show how important their electorate votes are imo.

As to did I Caucus? Ohhhh Yeah! It was a blast despite the 2.5 hour wait just to get in after they closed the polls (which I hear wasn't nearly as bad as it was at other precincts with 4+ hours waiting.)

[Justitia]

45. OH is more republican than TX, they've gone repub 4 more times than us

since almost the turn of the century. I've always considered them a solidly republican state (IMO, Clinton was an anomaly).

Re: CA - they've voted for some of the WORST repubs in presidential elections - Bush Sr., Reagan (twice), Ford, Nixon (twice) and Eisenhower (but he was the last "okay" repub in my book).

Even TX chose Humphrey over Nixon - HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I understand what point you are trying to make, however.

I'm just saying that I don't personally believe the meme about OH as some kind of bellwether, I believe it's solidly republican.

The Dem turnout in our caucuses made my Democratic heart sing
:toast:

[roseBudd]

58. In SW Ohio the most GOP part of OH there was strong crossover & coincidentall it went Rush's way

[CitizenLeft]

63. Ohioan here

I don't think Ohio is a Republican state. Remember, there was a time when we had a Dem Gov (Celeste) and 2 Dem Senators (Glenn, Metzenbaurm). Now we have a Dem gov and 1 Senataor again. Being "red" is not such a solid thing. However, what we DO have in great abundance is Reagan Democrats. They claim to be Democrats, they register as Democrats, they are blue collar through and through... but they vote like Republicans, especially if the issues that motivate them are tainted by classism, racism or religious fervor. Bush tapped into all 3 of those aspects, and so did Reagan. And, I hate to say it, but Clinton new just what buttons to push to get those Ohio Reagan Democrats to vote for her. My opinion is that those very same voters will vote for McCain no matter WHO is our nominee. The offset to that is massive voter turnout. That could turn Ohio blue.

[susankh4]

77. We are a swing state

and this time 10% of Bracaks votes were repub crossovers.

7% of Hill's.

It had nothing to do with Rush, BTW. It was the core of union folk... that put Bush in office, and also Bill Clinton.

[Arkansas Granny]

52. One could ask where were those "helluva lot of Democrats" in 2000 and 2004.

[ldf]

64. touche

:-)

texas dumped their shit on the rest of the nation, and we all see the results.

i'm ashamed i actually was born, and lived most of my life, in florida, where we lost our claim to democracy in 2000.

texans should be similaryly ashamed.

:evilgrin:

[susankh4]

78. They swung to Bush

cuz they did not like Gore or Kerry.

The swing vote disdains what they perceive to be "the liberal elite."

Unfortunately... Obama is perceived, by many, to be in that category too. We'll likely see that pan out, once again, in PA, and then WVA.

[LulaMay]

35. This is a reported FACT of how DEM WOMEN voted, like it or not. This party should face that issue.

We are a huge voting block in this party and being ignored.

[Justitia]

38. Wishing it won't make it so. Lots of women vote for Obama too, ya know. -eom

[LulaMay]

39. Do you know what a fact is? They aren't 'wishes', they're reality.

[Justitia]

41. Then point me in the direction of this fact about my state. -eom

[paperbag_ princess]

43. agreed

some things are so ridiculous that you just look ridiculous arguing against them. There is no point in validating over the top claims with conversation.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

23. If there are any HRC supporters who have left her TODAY, let us hear from you please.

[Metric System]

60. Are you obsessed or something? Why can't you get it in your head that not everyone supports Obama?!

[NastyRiffraff]

72. Why, so you can mock us?

Hey, whatever floats your leaky boat. Have at it.

I'm beginning to despise you AND your candidate. I had nothing against Obama before, but some of his supporters are assholes.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

80. so I could admire you. It takes courage to let go of a deep passion.

[Hart2008]

24. Hart always knew how to get to the heart of the matter. n/t

[midnight]

34. I'm not sure how to take your comment. In other words, are you

serious? What I remember of this man is only one thing-his mistress.

[Justitia]

40. What mistress? There has never been a SINGLE WOMAN claim to be his mistress. -eom

[Hart2008]

54. Right! The MSM kept trying to "out" women alleged to be involved with him. They all denied it.

It was quite different from Bill Clinton's "Bimbo eruptions" when numerous women came forward to make allegations against him.

[JoFerret]

47. Heard of elections? Heard of the electorate?

Herd of elephants - been a member recently?

[DeadElephant_ORG]

82. You're evading the point: If DU's mood shifted, the SuperDels probably are too.

[CreekDog]

49. I think she gained some traction before Ohio and Texas

but then steered her campaign car off the road by overreaching wildly this week and it's backfiring.

That said I remember my "stages" of moving from Clinton to Obama:

1) frustration with Clinton thinking she might alienate the party's black voters to win the nomination
2) flirting with Edwards, even donating until he dropped out
3) voting for Obama, donating
4) Obama wins a bunch of contests and I get really nervous that I ditched Hillary too hastily
5) further examination of Obama makes me more comfortable with him and confident in my original switch

4 and 5 are key moments. Remember, Obama's support is largely coming from people who at one time were prepared to vote for HRC. There will undoubtedly be some reticence and back and forth before a truly final decision is made, but Obama is closing that deal for many and Hillary seems like she's alienating many who flirt but are torn.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

86. that's what I'm seeing

[Arkansas Granny]

51. I'm sticking with Hillary. I feel that she is the strongest candidate.

[Perry Logan]

53. The Hillary folks are just taking time to scrape off their shoes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4779500&mesg_id=4779500

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4849238&mesg_id=4849238

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4922044&mesg_id=4922044

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4942967&mesg_id=4942967

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4964704&mesg_id=4964704

[sueragingroz]

55. I'm still here!

But it's a beautiful day out and the beach is calling to me...

[roseBudd]

56. I went from having nothing against her but betting on charisma & new engaged young voters...

and unfavorable comparisons between a tall attractive 46 year old with 2 adorable small children and a weird looking old man with a freaky looking plastic wife.

Now I despise her. She is a brat. She is effectively saying screw the longterm outlook, screw the young newly engaged voters who are showing up in droves. Screw the excitement none of us who aren't over at least 55 have ever seen.

Well I say screw her.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

59. Yes, Cause, Like, Before That Thread, There Was Such A Pro Hillary Atmosphere Here.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

My god.

Hey, have you checked the national polls lately? Just curious.

[lewis_in_fw]

65. Even though she still enjoys the support of most democrats, we're "at a turning point".

Are these people for real?

[ensho]

61. no, the paid disruptors have turned it up a notch.

I've got her back too

[DeadElephant_ORG]

84. paid disrupters could not account for 5000 views on this board.

[Patsy Stone]

62. Here's a very unscientific DU poll from yesterday

Interesting numbers.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4959947&mesg_id=4959947

[susankh4]

67. We are still here

just tired of the BS that's all.

[BlackVelvet04]

69. We just got tired of all the bullshit......

General Discussion:P isn't the end all be all of politics.

[saltpoint]

76. Probably supporters of both frontrunning Democrats haven't budged

all that much. There'll always be a swap of defectors and those people usually have good reasons for the swap.

The next 6 weeks will either produce a recalitrant stalemate or some kind of subtle shift from one camp to the other by delegates and the media.

County chairs for our party know that both these folks can't be the nominee. A combo ticket, possibly, but only one can be the prez nom.

Since both frontrunners are real keen on the position, these next 6 weeks are going to be a warzone.

Denver delegates may ultimately have to select a nominee at the convention. Unlikely, but still possible.

Gore? Edwards? Harkin? Biden? Boxer? Pick a fantasy favorite.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

81. 10:30 am - 218 replies, 194 recs, and 5561 views. Have you EVER seen anything like it at DU?

Even the most passionate Hillary supporters have to acknowledge that something is DIFFERENT today...

[grantcart]

85. a number of the most active supporters have given up on her

as the reality of what she has done sinks in there will be more and more.