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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:42 AM
Original message
Obama's Black Support Shows Its Limits


Obama's Black Support Shows Its Limits

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: March 9, 2008

CHICAGO (AP) -- Barack Obama would not be leading the Democratic presidential race without the enthusiasm and high turnout of black voters. They spearheaded his comeback win in South Carolina, where Obama trounced Hillary Rodham Clinton and John Edwards with the backing of four out of every five black voters. They provided his margin of victory in many other states, and will play a key role in Tuesday's primary in Mississippi, where Clinton is the underdog.

But Obama's campaign saw the limits of black support in last week's losses in Ohio and Texas, which kept Clinton's campaign alive. And the role black voters will play in the next big contest, Pennsylvania's April 22 primary, is unclear. Moreover, some analysts think it's possible Obama's heavy black support is nudging some working-class white Democrats into Clinton's camp. If true, it could be an important factor in a contest that remains remarkably tight after a year of campaigning.

Obama, the son of a white mother from Kansas and a black father from Kenya, won slightly more white votes than Clinton in Wisconsin, Virginia and a few other states last month, helping him to a string of wins and the overall lead in delegates to the party's national convention. But Clinton won nearly two out of every three white votes in Ohio, and 56 percent of those in Texas, where she also ran well among Latinos. Strategists are pondering the results, wondering if Pennsylvania's demographic similarities to Ohio will deliver another important win to Clinton in six weeks.
………
imilar turnout in Philadelphia's black neighborhoods could help Obama next month. But he would have to make deeper inroads into Pennsylvania's white electorate than he did in Ohio if he is to avoid another solid defeat.

Meanwhile, Clinton continues to draw about 10 percent to 20 percent of black voters, who sometimes have to defend their choice.

''She has the most experience,'' said Elexis Griffin, a black worker at a law office who attended a Clinton fundraiser in Canton, Ohio. ''Obama has only been in the Senate three years. I'm not anti-Barack. I'm just pro-Hillary.''

Griffin, who is 25 and considering law school, said, ''I sit here almost every single day and hear debating: Hillary or Obama? My closest friends, I have very much influenced their vote for Hillary. They accuse me of being against the social movement. And I accuse them of voting with their emotions and not looking at the facts.''

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Democrats-Blacks.html
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Why do people seem fit to want to turn this into a racial race?
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 11:47 AM by Bullet1987
and marginalize the Black vote as irrelevant and unimportant?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. I did not see the article in those terms.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
61. Racists never do.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #61
78. what an asshole thing to say. She didn't make this analysis.
You don't seem to understand a thing about racism.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #61
80. Cut that crap out
.
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. I don't see it that way
What I have seen is Obama accusing Hillary and Bill as being racists every other day which is turning away Hillary supporters.
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not_too_L8 Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
66. A similar argument could be made about Hillary's campaign
women remember?
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southern_dem Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. And?
Who said Obama gets 100% of the black vote? People are allowed to make up their mind regardless of their color. Which btw, shouldn't matter in the first place...
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. No one said that. Why do you bring it up?
Who said Obama gets 100% of the black vote?----
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. Clinton's female support shows its limits.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Stick to the topic of the OP. then we can have a discussion
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LulaMay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
38. You mean how they vote for her in huge numbers, or the 59% & 57% women Dem delegates in OH % FL
staggering numbers

women are a huge voting block for this party, and we are being INSULTED that it isn't being discussed or given the consideration due.

WE are insulted like garbage on this 'discussion' board, when it's US bringing out the majority Dem vote, overwhelmingly for her.

If this party and the 'liberal' media,politics chooses to do this to us, treat us with disregard, sexist insults,


they will regret it. it will hurt the party and liberals for times to come if it doesn't stop.


the women all over this country who are excited and proud to vote for her aren't much on this horrible board, and they don't appreciate how she's being treated, we all relate, understand. People on this board refuse to discuss these facts, are sexist, arrogant, think they can smash down our first viable female candidate for pres. as if it's a whim, or doesn't matter.

I can't predict the future like anybody here canNOT, but I can guarantee you this,

people in this party, people who call themselves liberals, people on this board who choose to take Dem women, and all women who vote for her, for GRANTED will most certainly regret it.

in other-words, try having a party or liberal movement without us.

and if you answer, as i've heard many arrogant men do, that this could NEVER happen, i think you'd better consider the dismissive tone of your words and how they make many women feel.

any women who wish to write their usual "I'm a woman and I.....bla bla bla" don't bother,

you aren't in the majority of women I've written about, repeatedly, so your thoughts on this particular topic are MOOT.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. This is how cheaters operate.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Do you have something of substance to add to this discussion?
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
31. Unfortunately
your posts have been without substance and are essentially flamebait.

The point is, this is 2008 and it's time to move beyond race and gender politics and the fine-tooth combed selection of such views that promote this sort of division. But there are those who even today, choose to cling to such out of desperation. It is so 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, and 20th century. Let's make the 21st century a little more evolved, shall we?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Discuss the OP without
throwing out the race card with no evidence of support--as you did
thank you.
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
54. Sweetheart, YOU ARE the one playing the race card.
Why did you have to post this story if you are not playing the race card?

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Idiosy. These are sociological catergories. Get educated and stop with the card games!
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #56
67. You're still playing the card game.
Unfortunately for you, it's time to fold for your candidate in this card game.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #67
79. No, YOU are playing the race card
in an amazingly immature way.
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. "Amazingly immature?"
Sticks and stones, man! Sticks and stones!
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usrbs Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. Obama's camp used this card against the Clintons first
And they did not use any race card and nobody in their right mind would call racist. Still, I'm sorry that bigotry still has such a role. And I don't understand how anybody could openly admit to being racist.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Have you seen this?---excellent


Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject The PRESS v. Hillary Clinton: Pt 2. Let's Get Political
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4962911#4962911
4962911, The PRESS v. Hillary Clinton: Pt 2. Let's Get Political
Posted by McCamy Taylor on Fri Mar-07-08 10:49 PM

Hello Again! Last time I had gotten all the way up to late January 2007 in the right wing media conspiracy to make Hillary look like a lying, cheating Bitch and Obama look like a doping Black Muslim (who had been outed by Hillary, damn her already damned for all eternity soul!)

Before I get to that, there is one more flavor of bitchiness that I need to cover, the lying bitch . The corporate media, right, center and left has taken particular pains to tell the American public that Hillary is a great big fat liar. Lie, lie, lie. That is all she does from the moment she gets up until the moment she goes to sleep at night. There isn’t an authentic bone in her body.

And would the American news media lie to you about something as important as whether or not a Democratic presidential candidate is a liar?


I. The Biggest Big Lie: Hillary is a Lying Bitch

Hey, it worked so well in 2000 against Gore. It was the MSM’s finest hour. Much classier than sitting on the exit polls in Ohio 2004. That smacked of illegality. Common thuggery. This is practically art in comparison.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/27/AR2006122701197.html?nav=rss_politics/elections

In December, the WaPo announced that Hillary and Obama were expected to announce that they were running for president in January.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200701230011
However, when first Obama then Hillary announced their intentions to run for president in January, the corporate media pretended that it had not been told about Hillary’s plan in advance, and instead it claimed that her campaign moved up its scheduled announcement date to compete with Obama. The implication was that she was trying to steal his thunder or overshadow him, and that she was lying when she said that she had always intended to declare in January.

The same Media Matters article lists several “lies” that the corporate media claims that Hillary told in the run up to this “lie”. She was accused of lying about her favorite movie (!!!), about when she made a video (!!!), about faking a phone call and faking the reason for canceling a meeting. In fact, there is no evidence that any lies were told. It was all a bunch of MSM hot air aimed at spoiling her presidential bid announcement.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200701240001
CYNTHIA TUCKER (Atlanta Journal-Constitution editorial page editor): Where Hillary doesn't want to be is in a position that makes her seem purely calculating. It's true I think that she has -- she --
FINEMAN: It'll be too late. It'll be too late for that.
MATTHEWS: Haven't you just defined her?


http://mediamatters.org/items/200701240011
(Dick Morris on Fox) “Asserting that Clinton "has a deep-seated ideal of a liberal, nanny, socialist state" and "believes that it's a religious commitment," Morris purported to reveal that Clinton "feels the ends fully justify the means" and that she "consciously and deliberately is phony, manipulative, artificial, contrived, and she believes it is her duty to do that so that she can accomplish her objectives that she thinks are God's work."
“Earlier in the segment, Morris claimed that she wears "a complete mask, a complete opposite of who she is."’


http://www.postwritersgroup.com/archives/park0307.htm
Kathleen Parker “Like a warped bell, Hillary Clinton rings untrue.”

http://mediamatters.org/items/200703140001
Media Matters debunks more lies.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200705100008
Media Matters debunks a Fox News lie that Hillary only started to smile and wear bright colors because she is running for president by showing lots of photos of her over the years looking exactly as she does now. (Proving that some lies are better than others)

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20080125/COMMENTARY/461921693/1012
Author R. Emmett Tyrrell Jr. writing for the Washington Times says of Hillary “her experience, which includes lying under oath, obstructing justice, slandering”. All easily proven to be lies, since she has never been charged or indicted for anything.

II. Hillary’s War

All these lies about Hillary being a liar have a purpose. They feed another Big Lie----the Irar War is Hillary’s War—which feeds an even bigger Big Lie that Karl Rove told last fall---the War in Iraq is really a Democratic War. Recall that he insisted that the only reason the Senate voted in the Iraq War Resolution in the Fall of 2002 was because Senate Democrats insisted upon a vote. In Rove’s warped world view that makes them 100% responsible. And Hillary is the designated Democrat who has been selected to carry the weight of our collective sins---so that the GOP nominee won't have to.

This is a Big Lie which is particularly deadly within the Democratic Primary where the War is massively unpopular. It is also the MSM lie that has benefited Obama the most. For the better part of last year, the nation’s journalists insisted upon portraying Hillary as a hawk with essentially the same voting record as John McCain who was always gung ho on the war—until she decided to run for president, as which point she did a sudden about face. Obama himself has done nothing to change this misperception, since it allows him to present himself as a dove to Hillary’s “hawk”.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200703220017
Chris Matthews: "Hillary is for this war!"

Pardon my French, but this is bull shit!

http://mediamatters.org/items/200705010006
Media Matters says it more clearly than I can, When ABC’s Jake Tapper claimed that Hillary voted in 2002 for a war resolution or declaration of war against Iraq, MM actually went back and looked at what Hillary voted for and more importantly, found the statement she made at the time.

“Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely and war less likely, and because a good faith effort by the United States, even if it fails, will bring more allies and legitimacy to our cause, I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our Nation. “
snip
My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of preemption or for unilateralism or for the arrogance of American power or purpose, all of which carry grave dangers for our Nation, the rule of international law, and the peace and security of people throughout the world."


Got that? bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely and war less likely and My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of preemption or for unilateralism .

As early as Oct. 2003 Hillary had separated from Bush on the handling of the Iraq War:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200705300003

Hillary: Among the many questions that I and others raised and the many criticisms we lodged against the use of the authority , which I and the majority of this body voted for, was the administration's aborting of the United Nations process and the inspections regime in order to launch military action.


Hillary gave similar statements over the years up until 2006, which is when corporate media reporters claim that she had a sudden (calculated) change of heart about the war.

Ok, armed with what Hillary actually said, here are the media distortions:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200701300002
Jake Tapper suggests that Democrats may not find Hillary’s anti-war stance “authentic”

Well, they won’t if a bunch of reporters tell them that it isn’t and that she is a pathological liar.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200705060001
On May 6, Fox News Sunday panelists repeated an emerging myth that legislation Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) announced she is introducing with Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV) "to sunset the authorization for the war in Iraq" in October 2007 represents -- in the words of host Chris Wallace – a "big change" for Clinton "who has previously rejected timetables for withdrawal and now supports this idea of rescinding the original authorization to use force."


The Washington Post and CNN’s Bill Schneider follow suit and call this a sudden change in her position.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200705220001
Bay Buchanan claims Hillary was a staunch supporter of the war and only recently changed her views.

In a similar vein, the MSM was quick to claim Hillary as a supporter of the surge even though what she said about it was

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/us/politics/21vets.html?ex=1345348800&en=0abcc66b8402da3e&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

KANSAS CITY, Mo., Aug. 20 — Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton told an audience of war veterans on Monday that some elements of the strategy in Iraq appeared to be achieving success, but said a military solution was unattainable and the best way to honor the service of American troops was to “bring them home.”
“We’ve begun to change tactics in Iraq, and in some areas, particularly in Al Anbar Province, it’s working,” said Mrs. Clinton, the New York Democrat and candidate for her party’s presidential nomination. “We’re just years too late changing our tactics. We can’t ever let that happen again. We can’t be fighting the last war; we have to be preparing to fight the new war.”


Somehow, the corporate media transformed this into the Big Lie Hillary supports the surge which Media Matters documents was reported on MSNBC, New York Post, Drudge, Washington Times, and Face the Nation.

I wonder where Democrats got the idea that Hillary was a hawk, no different from John McCain and George Bush?

Like the first big media skirmish which I describe in The Press v. Hillary Clinton Part 1 , Hillary’s War hurt her within the Democratic Party and it aided her rivals---or, in this case, rival since the MSM was showering Obama with free publicity in direct proportion to the way that it was ignoring Edwards. That painted Obama as the dove to Hillary’s hawk---even though their voting records in Congress on the Iraq War were nearly identical.

III. Who is Afraid of Hillarycare?

Since Hillary’s name is synonymous healthcare, attacking her on strengths is important. But how do you make healthcare scary in a Democratic Primary?

Never underestimate the ingenuity of the press when it comes to fear tactics.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200709170005
Democrats are afraid of corporations, so Newsday reported that Hillary’s 2006 re-election campaign got $850,000---putting her second highest of any senator for health care industry donations. It did not mention that most of it came from doctors, nurses and providers, and that if their donations were subtracted she fell off the top 25 list. Medical providers have interests that often exactly opposite to corporations. Most are in favor of a single payer health care system---that goes for doctors too, now that they have to deal with paperwork and billing hassles. Simply saying that Hillary gets a lot of money from the health care industry is a deliberate distortion that borders on a lie if you do not explain the different needs and interests of health care workers and the health care corporations. The result of stories like this is to paint Hillary as a corporate candidate.

In case that was not scary enough, the Drudge Report cooked up an even scarier lie

http://mediamatters.org/items/200709180016
On September 18, the Drudge Report, the website of Internet gossip Matt Drudge, featured the lead headline "HEALTH INSURANCE PROOF REQUIRED FOR WORK" under a picture of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY). However, the Associated Press article to which the headline linked did not report that Clinton's recently proposed health care plan would require people to show proof of health insurance "for work." Rather, it reported that, in an interview with the AP, Clinton said: "At this point, we don't have anything punitive that we have proposed" for people who do not purchase health insurance as required by her plan. According to the article, Clinton also said, "We're providing incentives and tax credits which we think will be very attractive to the vast majority of Americans." The AP article also stated that Clinton "said she could envision a day when 'you have to show proof to your employer that you're insured as a part of the job interview -- like when your kid goes to school and has to show proof of vaccination,' but said such details would be worked out through negotiations with Congress."


The New York Post picked up the story for people who do not read the Drudge Report. Note that the fear issue raised by the Drudge Report would later be exploited by the Obama Campaign when it circulated it Harry and Louise II ads, claiming that Hillary would punish people who could not or would not participate in her universal healthcare system. Those ads were more believable, because the right wing had already paved the way with their lies.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200710300004
Perhaps the cruelest lie was the one stated on CNBC, when Hillary was blamed for the fact that 40 million Americans lack health insurance. Forget Bill Kristol and the GOP plan to keep Dems from enacting a healthcare policy. Forget Harry and Louise. Forget the health insurance industry lobbying and pr campaigning. Forget the Bush administration. The War in Iraq was Hillary’s War and American Insurance Crisis was Hillary’s Insurance Crisis. She probably bought the hammer and nails used to crucify Jesus, too.

I have read posts at DU in which seemingly sane people blame Hillary for the insurance crisis in America. Or, sometimes they blame Clinton’s penis. I wonder which health insurance board his penis sits on.

IV. Hillary the Lizard Lady

Those looked like real tears to me, but the boys and girls in the press corp were not fooled for a moment. Those were crocodile tears!

Actually, they were fooled for a moment. Before Hillary had the nerve to win New Hampshire, the state that was supposed to seal Obama’s fortunes the way that it sealed McGovern’s fortunes back in 1972, the press took a ghoulish delight in watching Hillary break down. Was this her Muskie moment? Was she too weak to be commander-in-chief? Was she all washed up?

When she won New Hampshire on a tide of Irish-American womens’ solidarity---who can a Catholic woman trust better to protect her reproductive rights, a woman or a man?---the press was not happy. Not happy at all.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801080008
While discussing a recent campaign event in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, during which Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's (D-NY) voice broke as she talked about why she is seeking the presidency, several media figures described Clinton's actions as "calculated," reviving a characterization frequently made by the media that Clinton is "calculating." For instance, right-wing pundit Michelle Malkin asserted that "this woman is all about calculation," while Weekly Standard editor and New York Times columnist William Kristol said, "I think no Clinton cries without calculating first" and nationally syndicated radio host Rush Limbaugh described the occurrence as "motional blackmail," adding: "This is calculated."


The corporate media verdict was that Hillary the automaton has no real human emotions, so Hillary the liar must have been crying crocodile tears in order to trick the voters of New Hampshire into picking her over Obama. This is another odd notion that I see around DU a lot.

V. Hillary is a lying, cheating RACIST bitch

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Hillary had proven that the MSM could not do to her what CREEP did to Muskie back in 1972. She was made of sterner stuff. Time to try to really desperate tactics from Pat Buchanan’s list of dirty tricks (see Part 1). Time to pull out the race card.
Those who think that the Clintons pulled out the race card have not being paying attention.

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/chris_matthews_racist_paleface_voters_in_new_hampshire_are_what_did_obama_i
MSNBC host Chris Matthews didn’t just uncork his line on Primary Night about how New Hampshire Democrats would have displayed their racism to pollsters if they heard an “Archie Bunker voice” on the other end of the line. He repeated it on Wednesday’s “Morning Joe” show on MSNBC. He was upset at anyone who thought the pollsters and pundits were wrong about the Obama victory, when white voters lied to pollsters: “Methinks Paleface speak with forked tongue.”
Matthews declared he thought this was over in 2006: “I thought white voters had stopped being what they want to be. And you know what it tells me? People aren’t proud of who they are.” Host Joe Scarborough, asking Matthews to address the alleged bigotry in New England, drew out Matthews, the former top aide to Boston-area Rep. Tip O’Neill, to denounce the whole Boston area: “There’s different kinds of prejudice, as you know, in the north than there is in the south, but it exists. It may not be ‘I think I’m better than you,’ but it might be ‘I don’t want to live next door to you.’”


Say what? That lying sack of shit! I have never been to New England in my life, but I took one look at the pre election poll numbers and looked at the vote and said to myself Hmmm. New England. Lot of Catholics up there. The women decided that they trusted another woman more than a man. I can understand that. I come from an Irish-American family myself.

And so does Tweety. He knew perfectly well what the final analysis would show, and he came up with that race baiting theory of his to interject race into the race before South Carolina. And boy did it work. We had people at DU swearing that New Hampshire was full of bigots.

Then there was this from Pat Buchanan Ghettoizing Barack in which he describes a distorted view of how the brilliant Clintons deliberately played the race card to shoot themselves in the foot and lose South Carolina and build up sympathy for Obama, because, because….
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/ghettoizing_barack.html

Forget Pat Buchanan. He still thinks that Black People are scary.
http://www.grandtheftelectionohio.com/060410.htm

Here is how the so called “playing of the race card” went down.

Hillary said:
I would, and I would point to the fact that that Dr. King's dream began to be realized when President Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, when he was able to get through Congress something that President Kennedy was hopeful to do, the president before had not even tried, but it took a president to get it done. That dream became a reality. The power of that dream became real in people's lives because we had a president who said, "We are going to do it," and actually got it accomplished.


Three times the NYT printed this quote minus the part in bold, changing the meaning. Hillary had meant to compare Obama to the youthful but relatively inexperienced JFK and herself to the older, wilier LBJ. The change of the quote made it look like she was comparing herself to MLK Jr. Media Matters kept correcting the NYT and they kept doing it anyway. Soon, everyone—the WaPo, the La Times-- was repeating the phony version of her quote. Fox News even changed what she said to make it sound worse.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801150016
An Associated Press article reported that House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn "expressed disappointment with Clinton after she said it took President Lyndon B. Johnson, a white politician, to finally realize King's dream of racial equality by signing the Civil Rights Act." But that is not what Clinton said.


At the same time Bill Clinton gave a speech in which he discussed Obama’s record on the war. He stated that the differences which Obama claimed between his war stance and Hillary's were a “fairy tale”.
Read about how good old Tim Russert edited what Bill said and played it here
http://mediamatters.org/items/200801130003

so that it would sound like Bill called Obama’s campaign a fairy tale. I guess Russert was trying to suggest that Clinton was intimating (on the eve of South Carolina, a state which Jesse Jackson once carried) that only in fairy tales could a Black men become president of the United States. The problem was that is not what Bill Clinton said. He said that Obama was distorting his own anti-war history---and accusations of lying are color blind, as Hillary Clinton and Al Gore can attest.

Newsweek, the Washington Post and others picked up this mischaracterization of Bill Clinton’s remarks. Obama supporters at DU trumpeted both sets of MSM lies as if they were gospel truth---and proof that the Clintons had suddenly metamorphosed into cretinous low brows who plotted to score points in a state like South Carolina by pissing off the largest voting block.

Obama, as usual, cleaned up, thanks to the media Fatwa.

Oh, I almost forget one. It isn’t exactly a racially charged charge, though many in the corporate media and here at DU pretended to think that it was. Cocaine. Plenty of White and Hispanic folks use it. The issue has haunted Obama, since he decided to include it in his memoir. However, it is unlikely to sway Democratic voters, who are not really interested in “sin” issues.
When Clinton campaign co-chair Billy Shaheen suggested exploiting the issue, he had to resign. That should have been the end of the story. However, the MSM was not about to let a drug story drop. So Chris Matthews invited Mark Penn, David Axelrod and Joe Trippi on his show and began badgering all them with questions about Obama’s drug use---did he share drugs, did he sell drugs? Several times, Clinton’s chief strategist indicated that he wanted to change the subject but Matthews kept bringing the conversation back to the subject of drugs until finally Penn said the word “cocaine” at which point Trippi of all people went ballistic.

Here is the link to the transcript:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22259731 /

Now, here is where things get surreal at MSNBC—a network which I am beginning to believe exists somewhere on the other side of the Looking Glass. Somehow Tweety has managed to convince a bunch of seemingly sane people at MSNBC that Penn came onto his show and like someone with a strange form of tourettes he just started mouthing off about ‘cocaine” out of the blue, making him the second Clinton staffer to accuse Obama in public of cocaine use. Be sure to read the transcript of the show, before you go on so that you appreciate how unreal the media distortions that follow are.
Keep in mind that Tweety had discussed the fact that the issue had turned into a campaign fund raising gold mine for Obama and was garnering him support, as you would expect in the Democratic primary. Therefore, talking about the issue helps Obama in the primaries (it hurts him in the generals) and hurts Hillary.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801150018
Matthews claims that three Clinton staffers have publicly mentioned Obama’s drug use by adding Penn’s appearance on his show above to BET Founder Bob Johnson’s unsolicited (and uncontrollable) comments---billionaires are never staffers.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801180014
Jonathan Alter claims that Penn brought up the subject of drugs on Hardball (!!)

http://mediamatters.org/items/200802070002
On the February 7 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe, correspondent David Shuster said to Mark Penn, chief strategist for the Democratic presidential campaign of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (NY): "About five or six weeks ago, you were on Hardball with David Axelrod and Joe Trippi , and you were the one who brought up a word and reminded people of Barack Obama's past drug use." Shuster then asked Penn: "Do you now acknowledge that that tactic was a mistake?"


Say what? I am surprised Penn did not lean over and slap Shuster. Or at least cuss him up one side of the head and down another.

Not long afterwards, David Shuster would accuse the Clintons of “pimping out” Chelsea. Poor David. I can not feel sorry for him anymore, not after he lied about what happened on Hardball on Dec 13 with Mark Penn right there in front him. What a disgusting game of “gotcha”. He must have learned it from Tweety---along with the misogyny.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/us/politics/01press.html?adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1204950008-YcRWwcPm5xELciIMeCkyhQ
This NYT article originally created a stir---and made the David Shuster the victim along with reinforcing the Big Lie Hillary is a Bitch-- because it claimed that Hillary had demanded that Shuster be fired. In fact, she only asked that MSNBC correct problems within their network. There is a retraction online now—not that this makes a difference to the millions who read the original story, or the people at DU who called Hillary a bitch for over reacting.

The article contains some other interesting facts:
The night after Mrs. Clinton reprimanded Tim Russert and Brian Williams during the Cleveland debate on MSNBC for asking her a disproportionate number of “first” questions, she appeared Wednesday at a rally in St. Clairsville, Ohio. When someone stood to castigate the news media for being unfair to her, the audience cheered, with some even turning to cast a collective evil eye on the reporters in the high school gymnasium.
In a New York Times/CBS News telephone poll conducted Feb. 20-24 and released Tuesday, nearly half of those respondents who described themselves as voters in Democratic primaries or caucuses said the news media had been “harder” on Mrs. Clinton than other candidates. (Only about 1 in 10 suggested the news media had been harder on Mr. Obama.)


The press had better be careful. We learned in New Hampshire what happens when people get the impression that you are beating up on a woman.

VI. Hillary is Richard Nixon and that is the worst kind of bitch. And Obama is still a Scary Black Muslim

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803050001
Discussing Sen. Hillary Clinton's answer to a question about whether she believed Sen. Barack Obama is a Muslim, Newsweek editor Howard Fineman said that Clinton's answer was "positively Nixonian in its pauses and innuendos." In fact, Clinton's first three words in response to the question -- "You don't believe that Senator Obama is a Muslim?" -- were, "Of course not."


Fineman is either the biggest, fattest liar of them all---or he was too drunk during the 60 Minutes interview to pay attention so he did like everyone else at MSNBC seems to do and he took Tweety’s word for it (bad idea).

This story got legs at yet another right wing site, this time the good old Drudge Report, which edited Hillary’s comment.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200803030004
A Drudge Report headline linking to a 60 Minutes interview of Sen. Hillary Clinton read, "Hillary: Obama Not Muslim 'As Far As I Know' ...," falsely suggesting that Clinton characterized the issue of Sen. Barack Obama's religion as unresolved. In fact, she did the opposite.
In fact, she did the opposite. Correspondent Steve Kroft first asked Clinton, "You don't believe that Senator Obama is a Muslim?" to which Clinton replied, "Of course not. I mean, that's -- you know, there is no basis for that. You know, I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that." Kroft then asked, "And you said you'd take Senator Obama at his word that he's not a Muslim," to which Clinton replied, "Right. Right." Only after Kroft went on to ask, "You don't believe that he's a Muslim or implying, right?," did Clinton respond, "No. No. Why would I? No, there is nothing to base that on, as far as I know" .
Following Clinton's response to Kroft's third query on the subject, Kroft said, "It's just scurrilous --" to which Clinton responded, "Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors. I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time."


Please watch the video of the interview that accompanies the link above. Hillary is no more Nixonian than Obama is. Fineman is talking out of his ass. However MSNBC and NBC continued to promote Drudge’s mischaracterization of Hillary’s response, precipitating this

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803060002
In his March 6 Washington Post column, Harold Meyerson characterized Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's remarks about Sen. Barack Obama's religion during the March 2 edition of CBS' 60 Minutes as "hemming and hawing." Meyerson wrote: "Party leaders must make clear to the candidates that some attacks and innuendos should be out of bounds -- such as Clinton's hemming and hawing on '60 Minutes' over whether Obama really is Christian."


Notice that the net result of this Drudge Report attack is just like the "Obama is a Muslim" story from one year ago. It furthers the Big Lie that Obama is a Muslim by keeping the question on TV news shows and in the pages of newspapers, so that general election voters all across America keep thinking about it. All this thanks to a well timed question asked by a Viacom emnployee followed by the Drudge Report and then the good old guys at GE. And it paints Hillary at the villain, clearing the way for Obama the Muslim to be the nominee, since Democrats are so ready to blame the bitch and so naive about where the real danger lies.

All of this smoke and mirrors only works because nowadays nobody in the MSM does their own legwork. They are all lazy. They get one of their number to write a story, and then the rest of them feel free to repeat it endlessly until someone says "That's wrong" and then they finally have to stop. By then, the damage is done. Next time, they pick someone else to “make a mistake” or “misquote” and concoct a different lie so that they can send around another bit of propaganda. That way no one looks bad or particularly inept. There is safety in numbers.

Thanks again to Media Matters, a must read for everyone who isn't sure if what they are seeing and/or reading is the truth or corporate media bullshit. Hillary is a shrill bitch, a man-hating bitch, all Hillary's supporters are man-hating bitches and miscellaneous media lies in Part III. See you then!
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usrbs Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. It is good. The press has been so unfair.
And I'll never forget Donna Brazille, whom I still dislike for having been totally ineffective as Gore's campaign manager, saying that Clinton's use of the term "fairy-tale" is very troublesome.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. She was one of the more vocal--and visible people fanning that issue
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2_CentsWorth Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
64. Wow! Rodeodance! This is the best evidence anyone...
could possibly have put together to "tell it like it is". I have a profound admiration for a person who can come up with this kind of documentation you have provided.

To heck with Clinton and Obama -- GO Rodeodance.

If not that, then -- GO Clinton/Rodeodance.

Kudos, and thanks, your article and post convinces me that DU is more than worthwhile.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Do you have any evidence?--or are just spouting off?
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
62. will the "REAL OBAMA"S please stand up!
Oh, there they are....ANGRY MUCH???
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. "They provided his margin of victory in many other states"
Many? Like Vermont, Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, Washington, Minnesota et all?

I'm REALLY tired of this meme, and I'm not even an Obama supporter. (My candidate, Al Gore, isn't running so I'm one of those "vote for whomever the nominee is" Dems). Even so, I'm really tired of these so-called media analyses based on anecdotal "evidence." Nothing but race-baiting for a story.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. A discussion
of the Black vote is not race-baiting.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. A motivated black vote in November is the Republicans worst nightmare
especially in November. Because it not only hurts the Presidential race. But will turn the Congressional races big time.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
11. This article is why we need to have a serious discussion about the Limbaugh Effect...
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. If not related to the OP then start your own thread. Otherwise please elaborate-if connected.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Are you a mod, or something?
I'm happy to elaborate about how the Limbaugh Effect artificially inflated Clinton's vote in Ohio and Texas. I've been doing it since Wednesday. And I'll be on Progressive Blend Radio later tonight to talk about it as well... with your permission, of course.

Is this the first you've heard of the Limbaugh Effect?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. I know all about it. But this thread is related to the OP---unless you SPAM it
with related content.

Now---if it is related to the OP--then tell us why please.
thank you.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Here,
"Clinton won nearly two out of every three white votes in Ohio, and 56 percent of those in Texas."

My contention was that the article you posted indicates an inexplicable inflation of white voters for Clinton in Ohio and Texas, contrary to states like Wisconsin that went first.

A lot of shit went down between Wisconsin and Junior Tuesday. Limbaugh urging Ohio and Texas voters to register as Democrats and vote for Clinton was but one of those factors.

I don't believe African-American support of Obama is increasingly irrelevant, which is what your article is arguing by examining an increase of white vote, while not managing to show a decrease in African-American votes or African-American votes swarming to Clinton.

This, too:

Go and check the exit polls. In Wisconsin, Republicans made up 9 percent of the Democratic primary vote. Obama won them 72-28 over Clinton. Just as tellingly, 14 percent of primary voters said they were "conservative," and Obama won them 59-40, a bigger margin than he won with liberals or moderates. Tactical voters who said Obama stood a better chance of winning in November? They went for him 87-13.

Now, look at Ohio. Once again 9 percent of voters were Republicans, but Obama and Clinton split them evenly, 49-49. Once again, 14 percent of voters were "conservatives," and Obama and Clinton split them 48-48. (Obama did better with them than he did with liberals and moderates.) Those tactical voters who thought Obama could win gave him a 80-18 victory, a margin twelve points smaller than the margin in Wisconsin.

It's a similar story in Texas, where Limbaugh has the most listeners of any of these states. Obama won the Republican vote 52-47, but conservatives (22 percent of all voters, up from 15 percent in the Kerry-Edwards primary) went against Obama. For the first time since Super Tuesday, they were Clinton's best ideological group: She won them 53-43. And Clinton won 13 percent of the people who said Obama was the most electable candidate.

Ohio didn't wind up being very close, but Clinton won the Texas primary by about 98,000 votes out of 2.8 million cast. If the exits are right, about 252,000 of those voters were Republicans, and about 618,000 were conservatives. Clinton truly might have won the Texas primary on the backs of Rush Limbaugh listeners.


Rodeo, I still think Clinton won Ohio and would've without the Limbaugh Effect. But I think the Limbaugh Effect artificially inflated the white vote for Clinton, and therefore is entirely relevant to your OP.

YMMV.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. If you can prove indeed there was such a fiqure as the Rush Effect--then it might be relevant.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. Hillary will need black support to have any chance to win in the general
So trying to marginalize it as she has tried to do is not smart at all....

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newfie4 Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. And Obama will need white votes
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Obama's white support is collapsing
;-)

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newfie4 Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. congrats on the willie nelson vote in wyoming, I think there are 12 dems total in that state
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 12:07 PM by newfie4
Hillary is still winning the white vote overall
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. All part of your candidate's "Insult 40 States" strategy.
White People Heart Hillary!! :crazy:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Obama has won in many predominantly white states with
small AA populations. The NYT and you seem to have missed that fact.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. I think the nyt. covered it with para--althought it was not the focus of the article.
Obama, the son of a white mother from Kansas and a black father from Kenya, won slightly more white votes than Clinton in Wisconsin, Virginia and a few other states last month, helping him to a string of wins and the overall lead in delegates to the party's national convention.
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globalvillage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Wyoming's pretty white
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
71. I forget where I heard it in the last day... possibly MSNBC or CNN...
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 06:23 PM by krkaufman
"When campaigning in (Laramie,Cheyenne?), Obama may have been the only African-American in the state!" (was intended humorously)
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R for Hillary Clinton the 44th President of the U.S. of A. n/t
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Thepricebreaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. I hear smoking crack is never a good thing... n/t
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
35. Wilt Chamberlain showed his limits, too
Couldn't score more than 100 points in a game more than once...
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
37. He'll be even better after he's had eight years' more seasoning.
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 01:16 PM by TacticalPeek










:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:


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LulaMay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #37
49. The BEST idea people here don't like to discuss. They're TOO PROUD to even consider it.
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #37
68. He's a politician, not a Thanksgiving turkey.
Save your seasonings for your meat and poultry.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
39. Where would Clinton be without the older white women vote?
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LulaMay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. What's your point? We don't matter? The hugest voting block this party ENJOYS, who are trashed
this party, the liberal movement will regret taking women for granted for so long....

and treating us and HRC like garabge.


This party doesn't deserve our support if it continues. It doesn't matter who people support or vote for,

it matters how we've been dismissed, taken for granted, treated, had our candidate bashed gross sexism, and vitriol that she's stealing a nomination from a man, even though it's very close and she's won key contests and keeps winning.


Take my word for it, women are tired of it.


PS-Women here who want to write their usual "I'm a woman, and I bla bla bla.....", don't bother, you aren't in the majority of women I'm talking about and your thoughts on it are moot.

(and I don't mean Obama supporters, I mean those who like to chime in with denials about REALITY and the sexism, the support of women for HRC, or what it means. You can support any candidate and honestly admit these facts and discuss them.)

You should. Because this party is going to pay for the ignorance of many, especially may sorts here who think it fine to insult women.

If we lose, it will be thanks to you.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. You want to vote for HRC just because she's a woman
fine, seems rather shallow to me. I know mine and many other's dislike of Hillary has nothing to do with her gender, something many Clinton supporters have a hard time getting through their head.
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LulaMay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. No. I will vote for her because she's a brilliant, qualified woman. You'd NEVER jump on black people
for wanting to vote for a black Dem candidate.

Your insincere attempt to pressure women into feeling guilty for wanting equal representation is really rotten.
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LulaMay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. In fact, I dare you to write here that it's WRONG for blacks to vote for Obama because he's black
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. Are you claiming blacks only vote for Obama because of race?
sounds like it to me. Now that IS rotten and somewhat racist.
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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #42
65. It is amazing that a woman might support Hillary considering Bill's pushing through NAFTA, ...
Republican designed "welfare reform", media deregulation, repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act (which made the mortgage meltdown not merely possible, but inevitable). The Clinton legacy was NOT good for middle class and working class women.

Hillary didn't see fit to persuade Bill to modify these policies to protect women. Why does any woman think that Hillary would be good for women if she were president?
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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
40. Obama can get votes from independents and moderate Republicans, which any Dem will need to win GE.
I have moderate Republican friends who voted Democratic in 2004. They may be agreeable to voting Democratic in 2008. I would have no problem trying to persuade them to vote for Obama in the general election. I would have a tough time to vote for Clinton myself.

Her praising McCain over Obama to be CIC was the last straw. How anyone who was angry when Joe Lieberman endorsed John McCain can let Hillary Clinton get away with pulling the same stunt is beyond comprehension. She demonstrated disloyalty to the Democratic Party to further her own ambitions and that is unforgiveable. Even if Hillary supporters won't face the significance of her tactic, many will see her willingness to attack her own party for personal gain as indicating a willingness to sell out the people should she become president. She has already given the Republicans some serious ammunition against her.

I live in a suburb that is largely Republican. I have put out signs for Gore, Dean, Kerry, and several Democrats in local races. They are lonely signs in my neighborhood. They are outnumbered by Republican signs. I would not hesitate to put out an Obama for president sign. I will NOT put out a Clinton sign, if she becomes the nominee. I won't risk angering the neighbors.

Obama will attract new Democrats, independents, and liberals to vote Democratic. Clinton would energize the right wing to vote Republican to defeat her, even if it means electing a pitiful candidate like John McCain. The Hillary supporters who claim she has been vetted and will easily brush off Republican attacks are deluded. The Republican smear attached to Clinton has had sixteen years to become petrified and will never come off. It will take little right wing effort to activate it.
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LulaMay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Up to 20% of Republican women have said they'd consider voting for HRC, more than male Repubs
and the overwhelming majority numbers of Dem women, and enough men, who've turned out to vote for her, make her a strong candidate, and the pick of all Dems, as shown in the latest nationwide polls.

This board is out of touch.

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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
41. Of for frog's sake... she won OH because of her lying on NAFTA.
But thank dog for all those blacks in Wyoming, last night. Phew!!

But, addressing the article, it's spinning the issue as Obama having too much support among blacks, rather than coming out and confronting the issue that there are still a whole lot of people out there who are racist and wouldn't vote for a black man. I'd be interested in seeing a real article done on that, as well as the same analysis on how sexism would affect the vote.
    .. Ohio, where 62 percent of all whites lack college degrees and many are anxious about their jobs in a weak economy. ''This is a racially sensitive group,'' he said, referring specifically to whites who earn less than $50,000 a year and did not attend college.

"Racially sensitive"... Ha! I believe the word you are looking for is 'racist'.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
58. you forget---it was BO who weaseled around the bush-OHIO union members had NO trust in him
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #58
70. Thanks for trying. No, I know what happened ...
... and Hillary's lying was just one part of their publicized "kitchen sink" negative attack strategy. It worked for her. Kudos. I hope that she and her supporters are proud that they can only win by emulating Right Wing politics.
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
76. Oh puleeese! Obama lied about NAFTA, not once but twice and got caught
Must be hard for you Obama disciples to keep your lies straight...
&imgrefurl=http://www.slate.com/id/2185753/entry/0/&h=669&w=564&sz=121&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=78DGN_-fFgTBfM:&tbnh=138&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnafta%2Bmemo%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN ">Canada's Obama NAFTA Memo
On Feb. 9 Austan Goolsbee, the senior economic adviser to Barack Obama's presidential campaign, had a meeting with Georges Rioux, consul general for the Canadian government. The two men met in Chicago, where Rioux maintains a consular office for the states of Illinois, Missouri, and Wisconsin and where Goolsbee teaches economics at the University of Chicago. (Slate readers may also remember Goolsbee as a onetime "Dismal Science" columnist.) Afterward, Joseph DeMora, a consulate staff member, wrote an enthusiastic summary (see below and the following two pages) for Canadian Ambassador Michael Wilson. In the memo, DeMora praised Goolsbee's "intellectual prowess … approachability, curiosity and youthful enthusiasm" and alerted Wilson that the Obama brain-truster "appeared genuinely … impressed by the magnitude" of the economic relationship between the United States and Canada (see below).

For the Canadians, a key point of concern was Obama's sharp criticism of the North American Free Trade Agreement. DeMora wrote Wilson that in the Chicago meeting, Goolsbee "candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign" but reassured Rioux that Obama's NAFTA-bashing "should be viewed as more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans."
... more

THE MEMO

..read it and weep...





Hillary Clinton hasn't offered assurances on NAFTA, Canada says Los Angeles Times

Clinton camp never briefed Ottawa, official says Globe and Mail

When in doubt ; blame Canada if you must -- but don't lie.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. As far as I'm aware ...
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 09:33 PM by krkaufman
... based on official Canadian statements, neither campaign, Clinton or Obama, offered any private statements contrary to public positions, nor does the memo reflect the content of the conversation.

But sHillary and her minions continue to lie and distort. More power to ya'll.

edit: p.s. Looks like I may be wrong. According to this news story, someone from the Clinton campaign had contacted Canada and made the "take it with a grain of salt" comment.
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dcindian Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
43. FUD
More racist FUD from the Hillary camp.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #43
57. STOP with playing of cards---OP is using sociological categories. If you
can not contribute productively they go to another thread
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
44. The AP reads as though Hillary Clinton is ahead.......
and that if somehow she is able to wrestle the nomination away from Barack, there will be no negative consequenses. The AP is wrong.....and unfortunately for us, they know it.
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LulaMay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. She IS ahead in nationwide polls, popular vote, the choice of all Dems..and of course PA, key states
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Too bad that you saying this, doesn't make it so....
as it actually isn't so.

So Too bad for you. :shrug:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. I say so also. Of course I "count" MI and FL voters.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. That's not true
the polls are mixed and she is behind in popular vote unless you include Mi. and Fla.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
46. Thank Goodness he gets the majority...
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 02:06 PM by stillcool47
of the white vote too eh?



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

States that Obama has won...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/...
Alabama
Alaska
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
District of Columbia
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland
Minnesota
Nevada
North Dakota
South Carolina
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Virgin Islands
Washington
Wisconsin
Wyoming
+Democrats abroad

states that were tied
New Hampshire
Missouri

State no longer tied: Texas

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delegate_count.html

Delegate Count (2,025 Needed to Win)
Obama-1588
Clinton-1465
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
47. Good Article - I'm glad people of all races and genders vote for what they believe
I'm a white, bisexual, wealthy man - but that does not have anything to do with my support for Obama.
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2_CentsWorth Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
63. The question of possible reverse racism in this campaign hasn't been...
addressed by the main stream media or the pundits. Based on exit polls, the pundits readily assign vote percentages to other groups -- e.g., hispanics, white men, older women, rich, poor etc -- but seldom if ever to blacks.

When you do find information on votes cast by blacks, it turns out that about 80% to 90% of the black population voted for Obama. Is there a reason this is not labeled racism? If so, I'd like to know what it might be. In addition, since Obama typically received a 10% or greater point advantage over Clinton from white male voters, how can the Obama campaign claim that Clinton supporters were or are playing the race card?

Below are maps on two web sites that show the votes, by county, for Ohio and for Texas.

OHIO
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/county/#OHDEMMAPprimary
TEXAS
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/county/#TXDEMMAPprimary

One cannot argue with the fact that these maps show that the counties carried by Obama were almost exclusively restricted to high population density urban areas which correlates with the black vote. What will this mean for the general election? It might be argued that if even one-half the black population voted for Clinton in the general election she would win over McCain in a landslide. How might we explain the caucus states going to Obama? -- easy, it is superb organization and youthful voters, 17 - 29, on their cell phones, the Internet and knocking on every door.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
69. Can't we all just get along?
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
72. Not only minorities voters but made gains in all demogrpahs to get here.
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VeraAgnes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
73. I have a strong suspicion
that Tuesday will not favor Obama. It is a Primary and not a caucus correct? He has always lost straight/private votes. I will have to agree.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Well, no. He's won as many primaries as Clinton. And many more caucuses. NT
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. Actually, he's won many primaries, and MS has a large AA population.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
75. Huum something tells me that their is a fool born every 5 minutes
and the writer thought we were in that group.

Please....
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NJObamaWoman Donating Member (572 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
81. lmao but there's a big difference between the white and black dem vote
most of the black dem voters have supported a white candidate in the past. How many of these white dem ever supported a black person. Hmm probably not alot. If those white voters are going to Hillary because they are scared that blacks are excited finally to have a strong black candidate running than I don't think I want to be apart of this party. It goes back to some whites "masters" being scared when the blacks "slaves" gather and support one another. Damn it afterall we darkies must always support mr. White man.

Like I said I'm tired of seeing blacks support whites and them not supporting us. If something does change I will be laughing my but off in nov when some of those white dem voters lose the election cuz of the lack of black votes.
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