Mother Jones article: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics (was a surprise to me) -

[cyberpj]

Mother Jones
Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics

snip...

When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

snip...

Coe's friends include former Attorney General John Ashcroft, Reaganite Edwin Meese III, and ultraconservative Rep. Joe Pitts (R-Pa.). Under Coe's guidance, Meese has hosted weekly prayer breakfasts for politicians, businesspeople, and diplomats, and Pitts rose from obscurity to head the House Values Action Team, an off-the-record network of religious right groups and members of Congress created by Tom DeLay. The corresponding Senate Values Action Team is guided by another Coe protégé, Brownback, who also claims to have recruited King Abdullah of Jordan into a regular study of Jesus' teachings.

The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance.


Read entire article at:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

[SpiralHawk]

1. I don't recall Christ calling for no steenking "spiritual war."

I recall learning that he was the "Prince of Peace."

Sheesh. Stop twisting the teaching of Christ...

War is not peace.
Hate is not love.
Ignorance is not strength.

[seabeyond]

7. war is peace what repugs say and many in religious belt dominion attitude. didnt read

dont know if i want to but the war is peace bullshit caught my eye. what all the christian say here to justify murder of iraqis

[cyberpj]

8. Sounds like an attempt at a nicer was of saying "Holy Crusade" doesn't it? I would never have

guessed the Hillary I knew would have this in her background. Those of us who supported her, thinking of her as a thoroughly modern woman (including many friends of mine), are shocked by all of this.

I'm an avid Mother Jones fan but will still have to check this out.

[TwilightGardener]

2. Best quote:

"The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan."

Hillary is a scary power-mad wackaloon--and her buddy, Grace Nelson (wife of Bill Nelson) is her partner in crime to get the FL delegates seated. The elites get to circumvent the rules for power--God told them it was OK.

[graywarrior]

4. Whoa, that's some info about Grace Nelson.

I'm living in FL for now, so that sort of rattled my cage.

[Emit]

32. Exactly. This is not about religion, it's about power, wealth and control

of governments and nations. Scary shit indeed.

[AntiFascist]

73. What is particularly dangerous is when they feel that they have the right...

to attain such power by any means possible, as with Bush in Florida 2000, or Bush with the help of Ohio Fellowship members in 2004, and as I recall the Dominionist/Fellowship was particularly strong in Ohio. Let's hope Hillary doesn't feel the same compulsion with the remaining superdelegates.

[Skidmore]

3. Kinda leaves a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach.

[bicentennial_baby]

5. Kinda?

:puke:

[annie1]

14. Yeah, sometimes politics and religion isn't such a good mix, like here for example....

"The reason that I make a decision to support the choice position is not because I don't think it's a moral issue but because I trust women to make a prayerful decision about this issue."
-barack obama

"As a Christian, to remain open to the possibility that I cannot claim infallibility in my support of abortion rights."
-barack obama

[Skidmore]

39. Well, I don't like lots of religion mixed with politics but I must

point out that I haven't yet heard anything that would lead me to believe that Obama believes himself to be elite or made so and given power by any deity. Frankly, this "Fellowship" group is an anathema. Shame on Hillary.

[Hepburn]

56. My exact feeling.....

...I thought Hillary was just evil. Now I realize she is a wacko religious, power hungry nut on TOP of being evil!

:scared:

[Cogito ergo doleo]

6. Harper's and LATimes had interesting articles on that too:

Harper's Magazine (2003)
"Jesus plus nothing:
Undercover among America's secret theocrats"

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525

LA Times (2002)
"Showing Faith in Discretion
The Fellowship, which sponsors the National Prayer Breakfast, quietly effects political change. It acts with the blessing of many in power."

http://www.toobeautiful.org/lat_020927.html

[cyberpj]

9. Thank you. I was just saying I wanted more info. I was supporting a modern woman, this isn't how I

define a modern woman and is news to me.

Will read your links.

[Cogito ergo doleo]

43. Thank you. I was surprised about this too. I have always

admired Hillary for many reasons and have said so frequently on this board (although I support Obama). This was stunning to me.

[Divernan]

81. "sex-seggregated prayer cells"? Let's hear from the pro-HRC"feministas" on this one.

[City Lights]

10. I wonder how many people know she's a member of The Fellowship.

My guess is not many, so I decided to link the article in my sig line. :hi:

[cyberpj]

20. Good idea. I think voters, especially those in progressive areas, deserve to know this.

I know it's affecting me.

[KoKo]

11. After you read that then check out Steve Soto's Column...Edwards was member of group, too..

Here's an article from Steve Soto.. re this: John Edwards was a member of the fellowship, too..

Sunday :: Sep 2, 2007
Faith And Hillary
(Steve Soto "The Left Coaster" wrote this interesting piece when the Mother Jones article was coming out)


by Steve Soto

According to the current issue of Mother Jones magazine and reporters Kathryn Joyce and Jeff Sharlet, Hillary Clinton has been participating in bible study and prayer groups since she came to Washington in 1993, first as part of a Washington wives group while she was First Lady, and then as part of an exclusive weekly Senate prayer group when she joined the Senate. That news, in and of itself is not startling given Clinton’s long-standing faith and religious background. Hillary’s willingness to seek out and associate with people of faith, even in such a cutthroat environment as Washington is certainly not disqualifying. But seeking a faith-based area of common ground with those on the other side of the aisle, including many who could easily be described as her and her husband’s enemies does however raise questions about her judgment and what exposure she has as a result of these supposedly confidential associations.

Many will find it understandable and laudatory that she seeks spiritual guidance and reinforcement, and has for years. But what may startle people, including her supporters, is that the group she has associated herself with since 1993 which sponsors these groups as well as the National Prayer Breakfast is very conservative and exclusive. Known now as the Fellowship, it is a group that reporter Sharlet knows very well given his past investigative pieces in Harper's Magazine several years ago, and a Rolling Stone piece about Sam Brownback in 2006. Digby has written about this group as well. Even though Mother Jones will not post the piece online until Tuesday, I have been given permission to post segments of the piece in the extended entry. I encourage all of you to buy the current issue and read the piece for yourselves, because Hillary’s association with the Fellowship may lead some to question her judgment and true beliefs, given what the group stands for. Having said that, keep in mind that the Senate prayer group has been attended by other Democrats, and seems to be the only group of its type operating on Capitol Hill, which itself raises questions.

Ignorance cannot be an excuse here, because a Google search would tell you the Fellowship believes that Christian elites have a duty to rule the world, and serve Jesus Christ in a higher calling than their duties as leaders of nations. Plainly put, according to Sharlet, “the Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God’s plan.” The notion that Christian elites should rule the world for the rest of us, and should lead their countries not for the benefit of all, but to pursue God’s plan as defined by the Fellowship and founder Doug Coe runs contrary to what this country was founded upon, and is anything but progressive.

Are we to assume that Hillary endorses what the Fellowship stands for, given her 14-year association? Alternately, is it possible that she doesn’t literally accept what the Fellowship espouses, or that she associates with them out of a lack of egalitarian and progressive faith options for senators and representatives inside Washington?

In raising these questions about Hillary’s judgment and motivation, fairness dictates that her opponents be held to the same standard. John Edwards likewise was a co-chairman of the same Senate prayer group when he was in the Senate, so he also must have known about the Fellowship’s goals and objectives. As for his judgment, Barack Obama singled out far right GOP senator Tom Coburn,☼ a member of Hillary’s Senate prayer group as someone whom he can do business with, notwithstanding Coburn’s documented extreme positions on women and gays. Does Obama’s desire for a new kind of politics with such people, and Edwards’ and Hillary’s association with the Fellowship disqualify them from progressive support? Or is it an unfortunate sign of the times in Washington that our top three candidates associate with and tolerate those like Coburn and the Fellowship, instead of shining a light upon such beliefs?

While they tout their commitment to progressive values, Hillary and Edwards should clarify whether or not they endorse what the Fellowship stands for. And Obama has a duty to tell us why a "new politics" requires the submersion of Coburn's views for the sake of a Liebermanesque bipartisanship.

But there is another question that deserves an answer as well. Why is it acceptable for both the National Prayer Breakfast and the singular Senate prayer group to be sponsored by a group advocating Christian theocracy and elitism?


http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:mxSqtwdu9usJ:www.th...

[annie1]

12. Thanks for the info. This is what DU is good for even in times when...

many people just use it to spew. thanks.

[cyberpj]

19. I agree. It's important to note anyone involved. This seems more than just a personal choice for

religous worship - more like a cult with too much power in D.C. - pretty much a violation of church and state if you ask me. There's a difference between what this group is doing and personal choice of religion and worship. It feels as creepy as if some cult leader found a way into control of congress!

[Emit]

24. Here's what one of the authors of the piece says about Edwards' association with The Fellowship

September 5, 2007 2:44 PM
Jeff Sharlet said:

`snip~

But as for your comment about Edwards, yes, you're right. The Senate Prayer Breakfast is by far the least ideological activity of the Fellowship, though it still tends to be very minority Democrat. Real fellow travelers, tho, don't just go to the Senate breakfast; they meet separately with smaller cells (their word, not mine) of like-minded folks. Hillary had such a cell at one point, as we write. Edwards, to the best of my knowledge, didn't. I've never spoken to Edwards, but I asked Bob Moser, who wrote a great profile of him for The Nation, about those religious connections. In Edwards' case, he said, it really was just politics -- which is fine.

http://www.oliverwillis.com/archives/2007/09/05/the-religion-of-hillary-clinto/

edited to add, scroll down to the discussion part

[cyberpj]

26. I'd be happy to hear Hillary say the same. nt

[TheDoorbellRang]

65. Obama "associated" with Coburn in ethics reform

Obama, Coburn Introduce Bill Requiring Public Disclosure of All Recipients of Federal Funding
Friday, April 7, 2006

article at link

http://obama.senate.gov/press/060407-coburn_introduc/

Now THIS is the sort of bipartisanship I highly recommend. And this gets lumped in with Clinton's association with this Fellowship group? But notice how often any reference to Clinton's bipartisan coziness is rejoined with "but Obama does it too:"

From above article:

In raising these questions about Hillary’s judgment and motivation, fairness dictates that her opponents be held to the same standard.

and

While they tout their commitment to progressive values, Hillary and Edwards should clarify whether or not they endorse what the Fellowship stands for. And Obama has a duty to tell us why a "new politics" requires the submersion of Coburn's views for the sake of a Liebermanesque bipartisanship.

[Lucinda]

13. Sex segregated cells?

:rofl:
It was a women's prayer group people. Get real.

[Irishonly]

15. I Had Heard About The Prayer Group

I didn't know anything about it until I read the article. The separation of church and state has gone too far. I have been worried about the line being erased these past years and I had no idea Clinton was for faith based initiatives even before they were forced on the American people.

Thanks for posting an eye opening article.

[cyberpj]

21. See these articles too. - Posted above by DUer Cogito ergo doleo -

Cogito ergo doleo (309 posts) Sun Mar-09-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. Harper's and LATimes had interesting articles on that too:
Harper's Magazine (2003)
"Jesus plus nothing:
Undercover among America's secret theocrats"

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525

LA Times (2002)
"Showing Faith in Discretion
The Fellowship, which sponsors the National Prayer Breakfast, quietly effects political change. It acts with the blessing of many in power."

http://www.toobeautiful.org/lat_020927.html

[Irishonly]

33. Thanks

I bookmarked all of them.

[Irishonly]

34. Thanks

I book marked all of them

[IndianaGreen]

16. I read this article when it first came out, and I was troubled by what it said, and didn't say.

The disturbing thing is that Hillary neither joined, or formed, an enlightened prayer group. Instead she chose to join the most fundamentalist group possible.

Either she did it in order to promote her career in the Senate, such as the juicy committee assignment she got which was rare for a junior senator, or because she shares the same fundie values as the group. Either way, this is another cause for concern for progressives.

[cyberpj]

17. From Harper's article on "The Family". Please K&R for DUers who may be unfamiliar with this DC group

Like I was!


snip...

The brothers also served at the Family's four-story, redbrick Washington town house, a former convent at 133 C Street S.E. complete with stained-glass windows. Eight congressmen—including Senator Ensign and seven representatives22. According to the Los Angeles Times, congressmen who have lived there include Rep. Mike Doyle (D., Pa.), former Rep. Ed Bryant (R., Tenn.), and former Rep. John Elias Baldacci (D., Maine). The house's eight congressman-tenants each pay $600 per month in rent for use of a town house that includes nine bathrooms and five living rooms. When the Times asked then-resident Rep. Bart Stupak (D., Mich.) about the property, he replied, “We sort of don't talk to the press about the house.”—lived there, brothers in Christ just like us, only more powerful. We scrubbed their toilets, hoovered their carpets, polished their silver. The day I worked at C Street I ran into Doug Coe, who was tutoring Todd Tiahrt, a Republican congressman from Kansas. A friendly, plainspoken man with a bright, lazy smile, Coe has worked for the Family since 1959, soon after he graduated from college, and has led it since 1969.

Tiahrt was a short shot glass of a man, two parts flawless hair and one part teeth. He wanted to know the best way “for the Christian to win the race with the Muslim.” The Muslim, he said, has too many babies, while Americans kill too many of theirs.

snip...

“A covenant,” Doug answered. The congressman half-smiled, as if caught between confessing his ignorance and pretending he knew what Doug was talking about. “Like the Mafia,” Doug clarified. “Look at the strength of their bonds.” He made a fist and held it before Tiahrt's face. Tiahrt nodded, squinting. “See, for them it's honor,” Doug said. “For us, it's Jesus.”

Coe listed other men who had changed the world through the strength of the covenants they had forged with their “brothers”: “Look at Hitler,” he said. “Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Bin Laden.” The Family, of course, possessed a weapon those leaders lacked: the “total Jesus” of a brotherhood in Christ.


Much more at:
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525

[NashVegas]

44. The Harpers Article Is a Great Article

I think what it illustrates most of all is how religion is used as intimidation.

Still, you don't see Hillary evangelize on the campaign trail: NY voters would kick her ass if she did.

[Upton]

18. More proof of what she really is

a wolf in sheep's clothing. A Republican wolf that is. We've had enough, the last seven years, of religion dictating policy.

[Rageneau]

30. Because she practices what she preaches?

Most politicians are hypocrites about religion. They only worship so as to be seen in public. Hillary, obviously, believes religion is private. That's why she has never made a big deal about this prayer group.

Only religiously intolerant people would believe that she is forever tainted by rubbing elbows with fundamentalist Christians. She might very well be trying to find common, Godly ground with them. Or she might just be more comfortable worshipping God in the manner she was brought up to.

If Obama supporters are going to criticize Hillary for what she honestly believes to be right or (worse ) accuse her of NOT believing what she says she DOES believe, then don't expect HRC's supporters to get too upset when the wingnuts start throwing around charges that Obama is a Muslim.

Because -- if it doesn't matter what the religious truth is regarding Hillay, it also doesn't matter what the truth is regarding Obama's religion. Everybody can believe what they want, regardless of the truth and regardless of what Hillary or BO says.

It is us, you and me, here on the outside where we know NOTHING, who decide what the truth about any given person is.

Right?

[Emit]

31. This goes beyond religious beliefs

and if you've read anything about the Family or the Fellowship, you would understand. It is about using religion to gain power, particularly as it relates to controlling wealth and nations.

[CoffeeCat]

77. Using religion to gain power, but also to rationalize...

Many dysfunctional people use religion as a denial device. They do bad things, and it seems the
more bad they are--the more they glom onto religion in order to rationalize that they really are
not bad people.

There have been many studies on pedophiles and their common traits. There is no typical profile
of a pedophile--because they come from all socioeconomic levels. However, there is one trait that
the majority of convicted pedophiles have--and that's claiming a deep, religious faith.

Obviously, I am not accusing Hillary, or anyone of being a pedophile. However, it is important to
note that dysfunctional people who are trying to justify evil--often use religion to fool themselves
into believing that their actions are really not bad. They can say to themselves, "I'm a good person.
I'm a religious person who has a close relationship to God. Therefore, my actions and my intent
are not bad."

Compound this with the group-think---and you've got a bunch of people reinforcing each other's denial
systems. They make each other feel ok about horrendous choices--because they're constantly reminding
each other of how pious, decent and God-inspired they all are. Pretty soon--lie-based wars, lying,
manipulating, destroying the Constitution, greed and other evil behaviors---are smoothed over and
rationalized into moral actions. It's truly pathological.

This doesn't surprise me one bit. Bad people need devices. They need an endless supply of denial--to
block out the reality of who they are.

[TwilightGardener]

38. This isn't about religious beliefs. It's about power and secret connections.

[Unbowed]

22. Now why does this statement ....

"a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." sound familiar?

Doesn't Chimpy say he consults a higher father (as opposed to his father) when making decisions in the oval office?

There is a lot of other information out there about this prayer group. Just Google "prayer breakfast" - "Washington, DC" - "Hillary Clinton" and a lot of links come up.

[IndianaGreen]

27. I guess Hillary talks to GAWD too, just like Bush!

No wonder she always kow-tows to AIPAC, she thinks it is GAWD's will!

[Unbowed]

45. It's not the talking to that scares me, it's the answering.

:scared:

[mojowork_n]

23. OMG, the Fellowship, the Prayer Breakfast group !?!

I did go over to your Mother Jones link. The youth paster at Hillary's Park Ridge, IL church may have introduced her to Reinhold Niebuhr and Paul Tillich, but the historical -- and political -- roots of that movement go much deeper, and earlier, than that:

http://www.insider-magazine.com/ChristianMafia.htm

Excerpt:

The Roots of the Fellowship

"...The roots of the Fellowship go back to the 1930s and a Norwegian immigrant and Methodist minister named Abraham Vereide. According to Fellowship archives maintained at the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College in Illinois, Vereide, who immigrated from Norway in 1905, began an outreach ministry in Seattle in April 1935. But his religious outreach involved nothing more than pushing for an anti-Communist, anti-union, anti-Socialist, and pro-Nazi German political agenda. A loose organization and secrecy were paramount for Vereide. Fellowship archives state that Vereide wanted his movement to “carry out its objective through personal, trusting, informal, unpublicized contact between people.” Vereide’s establishment of his Prayer Breakfast Movement for anti-Socialist and anti-International Workers of the World (IWW or “Wobblies”) Seattle businessmen in 1935 coincided with the establishment of another pro-Nazi German organization in the United States, the German-American Bund. Vereide saw his prayer movement replacing labor unions...

...One philosophical fellow traveler of Vereide was the German Nazi philosopher Martin Heidegger, a colleague of Leo Strauss, the father of American neo-conservatism and the mentor of such present-day American neo-conservatives as Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz. Strauss’s close association with Heidegger and the Nazi idea of telling the big lie in order to justify the end goals – Machiavellianism on steroids -- did not help Strauss in Nazi Germany. Because he was Jewish, he was forced to emigrate to the United States, where he eventually began teaching neo-conservative political science at the University of Chicago. It is this confluence of right-wing philosophies that provides a political bridge between modern-day Christian Rightists (including so-called Christian Zionists) and the secular-oriented neo-conservatives who support a policy that sees a U.S.-Israeli alliance against Islam and European-oriented democratic socialism. For the dominion theologists, the United States is the new Israel, with a God-given mandate to establish dominion over the entire planet. Neither the secular neo-conservatives nor Christian fundamentalists seem to have a problem with the idea of American domination of the planet, as witnessed by the presence of representatives of both camps as supporters of the neo-conservative Project for a New American Century, the neo-conservative blueprint for America’s attack on Iraq and plans to attack, occupy, and dominate other countries that oppose U.S. designs.

"


...It's a very long essay, but worth taking the time to read.

If you start with that one, this Gary Wills' commentary from the New York Review of Books (Nov., 2006) will pretty well bring you up to date, as far as the current state of affairs:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19590

Excerpt:

The right wing in America likes to think that the United States government was, at its inception, highly religious, specifically highly Christian, and even more specifically highly biblical. That was not true of that government or any later government—until 2000, when the fiction of the past became the reality of the present. George W. Bush was not only born-again, like Jimmy Carter. His religious conversion came late, and took place in the political setting of Billy Graham's ministry to the powerful. He was converted during a stroll with Graham on his father's Kennebunkport compound. It is true that Dwight Eisenhower was guided to baptism by Graham. But Eisenhower was a famous and formed man, the principal military figure of World War II, the leader of NATO, the president of Columbia University—his change in religious orientation was just an addition to many prior achievements. Bush's conversion at a comparatively young stage in his life was a wrenching away from mainly wasted years. He joined a Bible study culture in Texas that was unlike anything Eisenhower bought into.

Bush was a saved alcoholic—and here, too, he had no predecessor in the White House. Ulysses Grant conquered the bottle, but not with the help of Jesus. Other presidents were evangelicals. Three of them belonged to the Disciples of Christ—James Garfield, Lyndon Johnson, and Ronald Reagan. But none of the three—nor any of the other forty-two presidents preceding Bush (including his father)—would have answered a campaign debate question as he did. Asked who was his favorite philosopher, he said "Jesus Christ." And why? "Because he changed my heart." Over and over, when he said anything good about someone else—including Vladimir Putin—he said it was because "he has a good heart," which is evangelical-speak (as in "condoms cannot change your heart"). Bush talks evangelical talk as no other president has, including Jimmy Carter, who also talked the language of the secular Enlightenment culture that evangelists despise. Bush told various evangelical groups that he felt God had called him to run for president in 2000: "I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it."

...If Hillary's the nominee I will strongly consider any third party alternatives to her candidacy. Her association with the prayer breakfast group speaks to her capacity for shameless double-dealing, and hypocrisy, in the worst way. However smooth and glib she may be, in interviews, the "Christians" she chose to "fellowship" with reveal her to be a fraud. If those people really possessed any truly spiritual values, they would have disbanded themselves in 1945. They wouldn't still be continuing the drive for an exceptionalist, American "dominion" of the planet, through continuous wars.

[cyberpj]

25. Just makes me want to find out if the Bush family, starting with Prescott,

had anything to do with this.

I have no reason to make the association. Just a nagging knowledge of the power and connections that family has amassed and used to get their own way.

[SpiralHawk]

37. "We Bushies have our own special 'elite' occult cell. Smirk." - Commander AWOL

[mojowork_n]

40. Read the first link I put up, Prescott's there, with Smedley Butler, the plot against FDR n/t

[cyberpj]

58. "THE CHRISTIAN MAFIA" Any problems with Madsen aside, this article should be required reading.

And yes, I noted Prescott Bush is right up there in the beginning stages. This information is WELL worth reading by all true progressives. It's the kind of information that USED TO BE worthy of major installment-type investigative stories used to educate the public. No wonder the rich, powerful and well-connected all stick together and have now purchased the US media. I wonder how long we'll be able to keep the Internet open and free? God (the real one) help us all.


This is from the end of a VERY INFORMATIVE article:

snip...
Waiting for God

Journalist, columnist, and television commentator Bill Moyers recently wrote that “for the first time in our history, ideology and theology hold a monopoly of power in Washington.” Ever since Abraham Vereide, a misguided immigrant to this country who brought very un-American ideas of Nazism and Fascism with him in his steamer trunk, the so-called “Christian” Right has long waited to take the biggest prize of all – the White House. Moyers correctly sees the Dominionists or “End Timers” as being behind the invasion of Iraq. He cites the Book of Revelation that states, “four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates will be released to slay the third part of man.” Such words may have their place in Sunday School and in church halls but using such thinking to launch wars of convenience or religious prophecy have no place in our federal and democratic republic. Moyers also rightly sees fundamentalist thought behind Bush’s “faith-based initiatives” and the rolling back of environmental regulations.

Hundreds of millions of people around the world no longer feel the United States is a country that can be trusted. They feel the people who run the affairs of state are out of control and dangerous. Considering the hold the Fellowship and their like-minded ilk have on the United States (and some of its allies) they are correct in their fears.

The political and religious dynasties who have embraced the Fellowship, Vereide, Fascism, Moon, Buchman, Moral Rearmament and all of their current and past manifestations, hatreds, and phobias show no sign of ceding power any time soon. There are many such father-son dynasties that hope to ensure a continuation of their shameful racketeering and political chicanery under the corporate “logo” of Jesus: George H. W. Bush to George W. Bush; Douglas Coe to David Coe; Billy Graham to Franklin Graham; Oral Roberts to Richard Roberts, Pat Robertson to Gordon Robertson; Jerry Falwell to Jonathan Falwell; Jeb Bush to George P. Bush; Robert Schuller Sr. to Robert Schuller, Jr., and Sun Myung Moon to at least nine sons (who are known about).

For them and their followers, they should keep in mind something Jesus said, “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.”

FULL ARTICLE HERE:
http://www.insider-magazine.com/ChristianMafia.htm

[TwilightGardener]

41. Great post, thanks.

[puebloknot]

72. The Christian Mafia article is very important. I also have grave concerns...

...about Obama's close connection to evangelicals. In his last book, he expressed support for faith-based programs>

I want a President that keeps his personal religious activities well out of the public venue. But this Fellowship group is not so much religious as using that medium to spread fascism. I want to know more about how or whether Obama is connected to the National Prayer Breakfast, if at all.

Thanks for posting this!

[mojowork_n]

82. Right now, the other two choices aren't looking good, at all.

Here's John McCain's place at the table:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0208/Bush_sits_next_to_McCainLiebo_at_prayer_breakfast.html

The president delivered his final address before some 4,000 guests at the National Prayer Breakfast, leaving the White House at 8 a.m. for the Washington Hilton in Kalorama and returning at 9:30.

En route to the event, his motorcade passed by a large crowd at Connecticut and K, where a woman held up a blue "Hillary" sign.

Seated at a table on the front row just to the president's left as he spoke was GOP presidential front-runner Sen. John McCain. Seated to his immediate left was Sen. Joe Lieberman.

With speculation rife that Lieberman might possibly become McCain's running mate, we asked Lieberman whether this breakfast was to discuss that possibility.

"No," said Lieberman, "we pray for each other."

I have no idea why the second paragraph in that excerpt was included, but there it is. Maybe it represents a hidden, buried sort of caveat emptor. Except for Obama, they've got you coming or going.

From what I know of the U.C.C., Barack and Michelle's church, they're not among the "usual suspects", or very high on the list of Christian groups most likely to cozy up to the Fascist right.

In fact, here's what I found in on the U.C.C. wiki page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Church_of_Christ

Criticism of conservative critics

Leaders of the United Church of Christ have recently begun to issue criticism of the Institute for Religion and Democracy and groups associated with it. In a speech October 14, 2005, President John Thomas accused the IRD of becoming over-involved with conservatives within the UCC. He said:

In the midst of all of this we are increasingly aware of the challenge of groups within and beyond the United Church of Christ that claim to represent the call to honor theological diversity in the United Church of Christ, that encourage the voice of more conservative sisters and brothers among us, but which are in fact intent on disrupting and destroying our life together.

At Gettysburg College on March 6, 2006, Thomas again warned against collusion with the IRD, calling the IRD "a sophisticated 'inside the beltway' organization well funded by conservative foundations and closely aligned with a neo-conservative political agenda." Thomas criticized IRD's association with the Association of Church Renewal, with the Biblical Witness Fellowship, with "Welcoming and Faithful Movement" , and the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Further, Thomas described IRD's modus operandi as follows:

The IRD pursues its political agenda in the churches through three strategies: campaigns of disinformation that seek to discredit church leadership, advocacy efforts at church assemblies seeking to influence church policy, and grass roots organizing which, in some cases, encourages schismatic movements encouraging members and congregations either to redirect mission funding or even to leave their denominations. Indeed, the Mainline churches are facing hardball tactics."

Going to Sourcewatch.org to confirm suspicions about the Institute for Religion and Democracy:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Institute_on_Religion_and_Democracy

This is buried in the third paragraph:

The IRD claims it is 'not just another research organization,' but disseminates information and 'assists religious groups who are developing foreign affairs programs and who want to avoid the excesses of the Right and the Left.' Author Sara Diamond--an expert on the religious right--claims that this is a misleading statement. Diamond writes, 'The Institute is comprised almost entirely of long-time neoconservative ideologues and recycled academic cold warriors.' As such, the IRD is stridently anticommunist. Author John Swomley calls the IRD a rightwing political organization and states that it 'has been the chief defender of American imperialism and military power around the world.'

What a relief to see that. I'm a Christian, and I don't have any idea how so many of those folks even sleep at night, let alone how they get to insist they have any spiritual values at all.

Again, I don't have anything specific about Barack, and where his path and the Nat'l Prayer Breakfast types may have intersected, previously. Or, whether there were even any tangents met. But if you want to know, you could probably contact the campaign, in Chicago. The main office is right on Michagan Avenue. Call 4-1-1 for the 312 area code. Or maybe you could e-mail them a question?

[DURHAM D]

28. Yellow journalism.

Hillary gave an interview in July of 2007 - three months before that article was written. You can find it at cbn.com - the David Brody section. Click on the "Hillary: I have felt the presence" article and you can listen to the entire 30 minute interview. No video, just audio. Wonder why MJ didn't listen to it. Oh, I know why, doesn't help with their bullshit.

I am agnostic and that interview, which is extremely candid and very informative, dispels all fear about her faith for those able to understand it. It is not a political interview - it is a personal interview. Go listen.

[TwilightGardener]

42. This isn't a faith problem--it's a power-and-connections problem.

[XemaSab]

69. I disagree

I think it's a faith problem.

Have you ever met and talked to any milleniallists? People who believe Jesus will come back at any moment?

Or dominionists? People who believe that America is the new Israel and God has a special covenant with us?

I think these people should be sussed out and weeded from the political scene.

I'm not saying that's what Hillary's beliefs are, but the article in the OP and subsequent articles make some pretty serious allegations.

[MonkeyFunk]

29. OMG! Hillary prays over eggs!!

She's a big egg-praying person! Stone her!

[Bread and Circus]

35. I've been bringing this up periodically for 2 months, usually I'm scoffed at.

I'm glad others are bringing it up too.

[cyberpj]

60. Sorry I missed it previously. But it's good that you come back and try again. There's a lot

to this THE FELLOWSHIP stuff that should make all progressives upset and yet it is so secretive that few have ever heard about it in any way.

Even if we only catch a few new eyes at a time, it's worth continuing periodic postings.

Thanks for your efforts. Just ignore the scoffing - it's always here.

[marlakay]

36. I am so sick of people who say they are religous

and act worse than people who never go, oh and all they have to do is say sorry to God and everything is okay. I believe in God but I don't believe you can plan to sin and plan to say sorry to make up for it all in the same minute...

something is wrong about this.........

[starroute]

46. There may also be a Jack Abramoff connection

I've never known what to make of it, but a fair number of the Republicans in Congress who are mentioned as associated with the Fellowship Foundation also turn up as allies of Jack Abramoff and/or Tom DeLay. That includes Charles Grassley, John Ensign, James Inhofe, Conrad Burns, Jim DeMint, and Todd Tiahrt.

I don't know if that implies a direct connection, or just that right-wingers who think their work is sanctioned by God are light on moral scruples. But either way, it doesn't make me feel any more comfortable about the Fellowship and its fellow-travelers.

[cyberpj]

61. If ever a situation deserved investigative reporting... but M.Moore is too controversial - where are

our Woodwards and Bernsteins?!

[rodeodance]

47. I think it is beyond the pale that many posts are mocking her over her failth. shame on you!

[intaglio]

49. Not mocking, questioning

If you do not know the difference then I suggest you get social awareness training.

By report the Family stresses loyalty within the group.

[whatchamacallit]

52. Do we need to dig up all the posts questioning Obama's faith?

I didn't think so.

[cyberpj]

62. It's not mocking her faith, it's questioning her connections to powerful zealots with agendas. nt

[spoony]

74. Shameful AND hilarious, given the zeal of Obama

It's like Pat Robertson slamming the Pope for being religious.

[Rosemary2205]

48. eeeeeek it's christians!!!

somebody grab the RAID!! (sarcasm)

[iverglas]

57. eek, it's politicians!

Oh wait, the article wasn't ABOUT them being politicians.

Funny how it wasn't ABOUT them being Christians either.

Did you misunderstand?

[whatchamacallit]

50. "...the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes."

It's time for these assholes to go the way of the Ancien Régime.

[amborin]

51. Not ever nearly as bad as Obama's pastor....imagine continuing to go to that church!

[XemaSab]

70. Africans! Oh noes!

www.tucc.org/

[NorthernSpy]

79. I would MUCH rather go to that church than to prayer breakfasts with Hillary and the "Fambly"...

Rev. Wright is doing tough work in tough neighborhoods -- somebody's got to.


The Family just get together in secret to fantasize about how gawd wants them to rule the world. They're of no use to anyone. No thanks.

[Madam Mossfern]

53. I find this disturbing

but I wonder if these articles are in the same vein as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I certainly hope there isn't a religious secret society planning to take over the world! It's over the top. Articles to discredit this?

BTW, Hillary supporters, real articles, not pap about her practicing her faith. She can do that in church and church related prayer groups.

[cyberpj]

63. 3 additional articles on "The Fellowship" aka "The Family" :

Here are some other articles about The Fellowship, the last one gives it's history and ends with remarks by Bill Moyers:

"Jesus plus nothing:
Undercover among America's secret theocrats"

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525


"Showing Faith in Discretion
The Fellowship, which sponsors the National Prayer Breakfast, quietly effects political change. It acts with the blessing of many in power."

http://www.toobeautiful.org/lat_020927.html


EXPOSÉ: THE “CHRISTIAN” MAFIA
Where Those Who Now Run the U.S. Government Came From and Where They Are Taking Us

http://www.insider-magazine.com/ChristianMafia.htm

[arikara]

54. Does the world really need more of Bush Clinton Bush Clinton?

That article is chilling. She's a democrat in name only.

...With Santorum, Clinton co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act; she didn't back off even after Republican senators such as Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter pulled their names from the bill citing concerns that the measure would protect those refusing to perform key aspects of their jobs—say, pharmacists who won't fill birth control prescriptions, or police officers who won't guard abortion clinics.

Clinton has championed federal funding of faith-based social services, which she embraced years before George W. Bush did; Marci Hamilton, author of God vs. the Gavel, says that the Clintons' approach to faith-based initiatives "set the stage for Bush." Clinton has also long supported the Defense of Marriage Act, a measure that has become a purity test for any candidate wishing to avoid war with the Christian right. ...

[ClayZ]

55. Must read article!

K and R

[boppers]

59. As people get older, their religious convictions tend to increase.

I think it's a "fear of death" thing, myself.

[Madam Mossfern]

64. I think this goes beyond religion

just saying.

I'm just a year younger than Hillary and practice my religion. I never considered it as a vehicle to gain power or success. What kind of Christianity is that?

[boppers]

67. Seeing as you have venus of willendorf for an avatar...

I guess I'll simply point out the difference between hierarchical worship systems and communal worship systems.

What kind of christianity? The kind that believes that rendering power to Caesar *is* rendering it to God.

Folks like this are more common than a lot of people would like.

Or be comfortable with.

[Evergreen Emerald]

66. This again? Good god you people, have you nothing better to do?

Of course we could all look at Obama's religion--no wait. That is off limits!

[XemaSab]

71. I don't have a problem with that

www.tucc.org/

[cyberpj]

75. I'd be fine with looking at any candidates associations with secret power groups in D.C. -

This one, with it's particular Christianity must rule the world take on things, is an important one for people to know about. Sorry you're bored to have to hear about it again but I missed the previous posts and thought others here might not know about their congresspeople being associated with something pretty much akin to a cult.

[Kaylee]

68. I didn't know about this....

That they believe they are the elite (chosen) and therefore are given power freaks me out. I will definitely read the articles cited in this thread.

[madrchsod]

76. this is a well known fact she has been involved with these people

she said that this group helped her "heal" after her husband got caught getting blow jobs at the whitehouse

[midnight]

78. Remember that JFK was considered suspecious and not to

be trusted because his affiliation with the Catholic Church......

[NorthernSpy]

80. the Catholic Church doesn't pretend not to exist...

Why are you not getting the point?