Dean: "After July 1st, the control of the convention shifts from the DNC to the nominee"

[madfloridian]

I noticed on the talk shows today that the more he tried to say that he wanted to be fair to the losing side so they would still feel part of the party...the more the talking heads jumped down his throat.

That is a very important statement. That means the nominee will control the credentials committee which has a lot of decisions to make.

From Marc Ambinder.

Quote from This Week today

Dean was being nagged by George about seating FL and MI...after he had patiently explained.

After July 1st, the control of the convention shifts from the DNC to the nominee. So, the people who have the most votes on the credentials committee are controlled by how many delegates get elected nationally.

So, whoever has the most delegates will have an edge in the credentials committee. And whether they seat them or not is their business.

There is really not much more to say on the topic.

There are no rules here at DU anymore. Yeah, I know an unfettered internet is great and all that. But it does no good really to post stuff that is sourced and all that. Unsourced untrue stuff gets far more attention.

I would say to those who have held Howard Dean in such contempt for trying tomove the party power base outside of DC that you don't have to worry much longer.

Soon the nominee will take over, and the mindless bashing at DU can continue with another victim as the target.

[DemVet]

1. Howie is talking about Hillary then. n/t

[madfloridian]

2. "Scorched earth" works but it leaves collateral damage.

If she continues the ugly stuff, there will be a big party split.

[annie1]

4. what is she saying so far that has split the party. am i the only one...

who goes to work every day and the people i talk to are not so divided? i only work with 14 people but we're all just fine. i don't see what is so disastrous.

[madfloridian]

5. That's nice that you are not bothered.

By her push to seat delegates that are illegal.

By her "not as far as I know" when asked if Obama were Muslim.

By praising John McCain's wonderful experience and saying Obama only had a speech in 2002.

They bother me.

[UALRBSofL]

16. Some people are so biased they cut off there nose to spite there face

The voters hold Dean responsible for muzzling the voters illegally.

Obama uses racism to explain Hillary's comments and split the party

Obama endorses Reagan and disses Bill Clinton

All this bothers the supporters of Clinton

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. 2 Truths. 3 unsubstantiated lies.

Some people are so biased they cut off there nose to spite there face True

Posted by UALRBSofL

The voters hold Dean responsible for muzzling the voters illegally. Link/Source?

Obama uses racism to explain Hillary's comments and split the party Link/Source?

Obama endorses Reagan and disses Bill Clinton Link/Source?

All this bothers the supporters of Clinton Oddly true

[anamandujano]

Add to that, if Clinton tries to defend herself against his lies, she gets called

a racist, or divisive or treasonous.

They don't want her to speak at all.

[DemVet]

26. The only "illegal" thing about those delegates...

...is that Howard Dean tries to keep them unseated and is disenfranchising millions of Democrats in the process. He should resign. He is a disgrace.

[electron_blue]

28. What about the millions who stayed home in Fl and MI on primary day

bcs they were told their votes wouldn't count? And that the primary was just for Republicans? Do you care about them being disenfranchised?

[DemVet]

44. Laziness shouldn't be rewarded.

More people in those two states voted this year than ever before. Tough crap if Obama took his own name off the MI ballot.

[intaglio]

49. Garbage, no further comment needed

[MonkeyFunk]

35. Illegal?

What law was broken?

DNC rules are not "the law".

The penalty was draconian and unnecessary - Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada got to go first. Nobody was harmed.

[Cha]

8. Yes, it's all about you,

annie.

[Johnny__Motown]

3. Nope, Obama will have more pledged delegates at that point, he will be in charge of the committee

that will decide on FL and MI



One more reason Hillary realized that she lost and decided to help McCain win. That way she gets another shot in 2012.

[madfloridian]

6. Please don't bother our minds with facts around here.

It is most annoying. :sarcasm:

[Johnny__Motown]

9. Doh, sorry.... bad habit..... basing my positions on facts..

[madfloridian]

11. Well, it's very annoying to us...

so please watch it. :eyes:

[UALRBSofL]

18. We'll have to let the american public decide that because popular vote is viable

And as such will make a strong case that Hillary will be the nominee.

[Usrename]

38. DNC rules assume that the public will have already decided.

Obama will have won the most pledged delegates by July 1 and this fact will give him proportional control of the credentials committee.

From what I understand about this process, this is just the way it is, and opinions have nothing to do with it.

[Ken Burch]

53. There can't be a good reason to go with the candidate who is weaker in the polls

more conservative, and inspires no enthusiasm.

Can't you see that yet?

[catgirl]

7. Thank you madfloridian for all your good work

and keeping us up-to-date on the Florida situation this whole time!

[Cha]

10. Dean has done an excellent job and

we can all be proud of the important work he's done. Look at what Obama has accomplished from using Dean's 50 state strategy!

The dlc can piss and moan and the m$$$m can lap it up but they can't take the facts away from them.

Rec'd.

[madfloridian]

12. They can take the party back to the old ways.

Very quickly.

[Cha]

14. We'll see...bushits had their 8 years

to screw up everything and it won't long for dlc to drag the country down even further..hoping they don't get their greedy little chance.

[madfloridian]

20. They will do it.

.

[madfloridian]

13. It's kind of sad to think his 50 state plan could be dismantled that early.

I knew it in the back of my mind. I knew the nominee controlled the convention and became in total control of the party. I think Dean had the support of the DNC members to stay, but he is choosing not to do so.

Oh, well. It was nice while it lasted.

[SoCalDem]

29. July 1st Obama will still have more delegates so wouldn't this favor him?

She can't catch him.. (I don't really see the sooopers giving it to her, at this point)

[madfloridian]

39. I hope so, but I just don't know.

I guess it will boil down to whether Hillary gets a chance to take FL again.

I can't figure any of it out anymore.

[SoCalDem]

40. Here's one you'll enjoy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5001823&mesg_id=5001823

[madfloridian]

15. Here's the video and a brief article from This Week. Also video FTN

This Week video.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/story?id=4417100&page=1

Face the Nation video

http://kdka.com/video/?id=[e-mail]

The more he tried to point out that the people of FL and MI were victims of their political leaders in those states....the more the talking heads argued

[madfloridian]

19. I have a feeling soon hubby and I will save lots of money monthly

that is being paid right now to the DNC.

First off, I don't think FL and MI should have do-overs, but I can see why the offer was made.

We really have been on board while Dean was trying to change things, but now the party is heading back to its old ways. By July someone else will be in charge, and it looks like it will be the Clintons by hook or by crook.

Here is one example. On the surface meaningless. But not realy.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/09/748066.aspx

"NBC News has learned that New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine is willing to raise money to pay for a "redo" of both the Florida and Michigan primaries.

Both states violated Democrat Party rules by holding early primaries, and have been penalized with loss of their delegates to the national concention in Denver.

Apparently, because both states voted for Hillary Clinton, Corzine, along with neighboring Pennsylvania governor Ed Rendell -- both strong Clinton supporters -- agreed on Friday to make the offer.

According to remarks Rrendell made on NBC's Meet the Press this morning, he and Corzine are writing a letter to the Washington Post offering to raise half of what he estimated as a $30 million dollar price tag to redo both primaries."

Rendell has really shown himself a true loyalist to Clinton lately. Even going so far as to say Shoot Howard Dean

I can see the signs already, the media is choosing our nominee, and the same old players are yanking the party back to the same old tactics.

[madfloridian]

21. Hubby watched the interview of Dean we recorded.

He just said if it is going to be like this, stop the donations when he leaves. I said funny you should say that.

[ellisonz]

22. WE will win.

[madfloridian]

23. I want to believe it

But they are ruthless. I can not watch her on TV anymore. Talked to an old friend who said the same thing, and it surprised her to feel that way.

I think it is the hate-filled years of the Bush administration...making us sensitive.

[Oilwellian]

24. We're fighting for the soul of the Democratic party

We have got to expose the DLC for who they are and get rid of this den of thieves. I wish Dean would stay. :(

[madfloridian]

25. The DNC members petitioned him at the last meeting..

they even chanted four more years. His answer was how much he would have given to hear that four years ago. I have it on DVR, but it is sad to listen. He effectively said no. They could make it happen for him, but the atmosphere of tension would not be worth it I guess.

I have just about given up hope now. I saw Dean crushed in 04, and the machine is going to do it again to another good Democrat.

[JNelson6563]

27. This is what Mark Brewer has said all along

From the beginning he has said that it will be up to the nominee to seat or not seat Michigan and that whoever it is won't alienate our state because we are needed to win the GE.

Julie

[madfloridian]

31. Seat but not count either "as is". Big difference.

Counting either as is would mean a candidate who is not legit.

I don't even think there should a do-over in Florida. They did it so deliberately.

[JNelson6563]

33. They'll count

And considering there is not a huge disparity between Clinton and Uncommitted delgates it won't make a big difference in the contest but it will to the people in MI.

Julie

[madfloridian]

36. You want to allow the "as is" to count? Surprised at that, Julie

Both states broke the rules deliberately, and I don't think the original vote should count at all unless 50 50

[JNelson6563]

41. No, he took his name off the ballot

It was a calculated political risk that the Obama campaign took. Taking 40 of the delegates isn't too high of a price to pay for the risk that was taken.

I don't think it would give Hillary enough extra delegates to put her over the top.

Julie

[madfloridian]

42. Are you saying you are okay with the actions of FL and MI?

I never thought I would hear that from you. Stunning.

They plowed ahead and deliberately broke the rules, they blamed Dean for it by email and press releases...they lied.

[JNelson6563]

43. No, not sayin' that

I do not think it was the right thing to do. I am however much more focused on what is the right thing to do in relation to winning the GE. That is all it is about for me. We will not win without Michigan, Florida and with big unity problems. I want those probelms to be shelved and promises from all sides to come up with a fair, workable primary system.

That is what I want.

Julie

[madfloridian]

45. It was about that for me also...Not now.

I have seen Bill Nelson and Wasserman Schultz and a few others just absolutely go after a man I respect very much who is trying to rebuild a party.

SO I guess I am seeing a man like Nelson ruling our state, and no one with the power to stop him. I watched him rip Dean apart on Sunday TV. I have watched him use the state convention to tear him apart. He does it to everyone who gets in his way.

I do not think for a moment that anyone but Hillary will take my state. I think it is already a given.

[JNelson6563]

50. In the end though

You're working from a different perspective. You are angry with Nelson (who, IMO, sucks mightily) and that is your focus. I am looking at a broader view. I won't throw out MI and/or FLA, alienate the voters and risk losing either or both of them. Who knows what additional miseries will be unleashed on the poor world if McCain gets in because we hate Nelson's (or whoever's) guts and wanted to make that clear? I for one could not live with myself as we watched our military "Bomb, bomb, bomb! Bomb, bomb Iran!" and whatever other places with McInsane at the helm.

No way, no how. I do not hate anyone enough to take that risk. I say seat everyone, count the votes and start drawing up plans for fair and equitable primary seasons to come.

Julie

[madfloridian]

51. No hate, Julie.

Just a realization that once again it has all been decided. It really doesn't matter about what I think or do.

[JNelson6563]

54. It's always been that way my friend

It really dawned on me after the 04 primary. For all the excitement and sutff the Pres. race is far beyond us little people. Much better IMO to play a role in a place where I can make a serious difference. It's far easier to hold a Congress-critter's feet to the fire (and replace them) than it is to in any way influence the race for the WH.

Don't be too discouraged MF, just re-calibrate. ;)

Julie

[madfloridian]

37. FL and MI as is would give it to Hillary. Wrong.

If they have the revote, it will be bad enough. But at least I understand why Dean is offering that. There is precedent he says, for a do-over.

But not as is. Never.

[SoCalDem]

34. 50-50 and no sooopers (since they created the mess)

:)

[madfloridian]

32. Dupe delete

[NoFederales]

30. HRC's scorched earth will disenfranchise me. nt

NoFederales

[madfloridian]

46. Something about the credentials committee...not likely "as is" scenario

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/michigan_florida_options_shrin.html

""When both states' legislators moved their contests to January 15, in Michigan, and January 29, in Florida, they thought they knew exactly what they were doing: While the DNC might strip them of delegates, the eventual nominee would instruct credentials committee members to allow the two states' slates to sit n the convention floor. But that plan did not factor in the possibility of a contested convention.

Now, based on delegate allocation, it looks almost certain that votes to seat the delegations in their current iterations - both overwhelmingly favoring Hillary Clinton - will not exist. Examining the 186 members of the DNC's Credentials Committee, which would decide any contested delegations, the deck is heavily stacked against both states.

Of the twenty eight members DNC chair Howard Dean appointed, five have already voted to strip the states' delegates. Committee chairs Alexis Herman and Jim Roosevelt, along with members Ralph Dawson, Tina Flournoy and Janice Griffin, all served on the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee, which decided the punishments for non-compliant states. The remaining twenty three members will likely follow suit and vote to uphold the rules.

Based on results so far, it appears that Barack Obama's team will control at least 68 seats on the credentials committee, after an estimate that is, if anything, generous to Clinton. Clinton's wins have netted her 55 seats, while states that have yet to hold contests -- Indiana, Kentucky, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennyslvania, South Dakota, West Virginia and Puerto Rico - have yet to allocate their combined 22 seats. With Dean's selections voting to uphold the rules and Obama's delegates voting in their candidate's interest, 96 delegates would vote to keep Michigan and Florida out. "

[Major Hogwash]

47. This is great news! Thanks, madfloridian!

I thought we were going to have a lot of confusion and chaos in July.

[madfloridian]

48. Oh, no, no confusion. Just back to the same old ways most likely.

I never did understand one person being in total control of the party for four years.

The Bill Nelsons did their job well, didn't they?

[Drunken Irishman]

52. Well unless something goes horribly wrong for Obama, he'll have a 100+ lead on her by then.

Which gives him control over this. If I'm Obama, I say seat the delegates and divide them up 50-50.