I am one of the undecided in Pennsylvania, help me choose a candidate

[TommyO]

The subject says it, but there are a few conditions:

#1: This is critical, if you are supporting one candidate, don't attack the other. I want to know why you're supporting your candidate in a positive, constructive way.

#2: Provide sources for your information, don't just leave an unsupported claim hanging there.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Not supporting either

but I like your criteria. If only it could be what is followed throughout GDP.....

[Dems Will Win]

18. Here is Obama's Blueprint For Change. He really lays out what he wants to do

But more than that this document explains whats wrong with America and then how to use what's great about America to fix it.

If you want to know what all the hope is about read this first:
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf

What I like too is he tells exactly what he would do with Social Security, Energy, a full Healthcare plan and other areas instead of just saying he will appoint committees.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

46. I wish I saw more of these kinds of answers

in GDP---the spats and name calling and poor language gets me down. By providing me with a link, you have helped me understand your candidate better. Thanks!

[WCGreen]

2. Two things that help me decide over here in Ohio...

First, what would happen to the loser, because I think both candidates are extraordinary in their own way...

Second, who would be the least tainted or jaded...

Based on those two criteria, I believe that Obama would be less likely to be tainted, or more bluntly, in bed with the corporate/political power structure. I also feel that as a presidential candidate, HRC would make a great Senate Majority leader...

But then again, there is the electability factor..

And they are both strong in the traditional blue states and see saw back and forth in the more purple states...

I also feel that if Obama runs again in 2012, if HRC wins and McCain beats her in the general (It could happen), he will have a total of eight years of voting in the senate to explain...

[stray cat]

3. Obama says "we" must bring about change

He is placing a burden on the electorate to not just complain but to once again participate in government as a democracy. He knows that its not only one leader at the top who can change everything below. He is pushing for transparency in the practice of government because he thinks changing politics involves not just a leader at the top but an informed and motiviated electorate who has to also push for change for anything to happen. Consequently, citizens must be able to see what is really going on in order for them to put pressure on their leaders. In a democracy we can't just blame our leaders if the electorate is not also informed and participatory.

[TommyO]

4. How will Obama, if elected, accomplish this?

[KittyWampus]

20. you need to investigate how Obama has organized Democratic grassroots in all states

he's campaigned in.

[stray cat]

22. Good question -

I know he has stated in debates that he wants to televise legislative actions as well as making the debates and discussion on health care reform accessible to the public - so it is not happening behind closed doors. I think the more transparency the better because some legislatures will act differently if they know they are being watched by their constituents.

I hope unlike Bush he will be honest with the American people about why things are being done instead of manipulating the public, fear mongering and executive signing statements.

I hope his experience as a community organizer has taught him something about grass roots politics so far the way he has run his campaign shows he is at least forming a motivated grass roots swell and encouraging greater participation in election.

He has also placed an emphasis on the fact that to some extent we are our brother's keeper and I do believe that each of us must be responsible but we also can't turn our back on each other.

I'm not a naive idealist - I feel much like Russ Feingold mentioned that either candidate would be a welcome change but that Obama has the potential for delivering a more radical sea-change.

[SKKY]

28. What I think he will do is this...

1. Select a VP that can not only deliver some previously "red" states, but one that shares his "philosophy".
2. Interview people based on their qualifications for each position, and select the best for each position.
3. Immediately begin mending fences with current and former allies (Spain, Germany, etc) that have since been
lukewarm to our position in the world.
4. Yada yada yada, blah blah blah

What he will do is probably not that different than what Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush did. The structure of the system pretty much dictates that a good number of things must happen, regardless of who the POTUS is. What I think is the deciding factor is his judgment. That's what I'm voting for. We have no idea how either of these two will perform as POTUS. We have to take what we have been given, and run it through whatever filters we have internally, and make the best guess. To me, Obama looks and acts more "Presidential", or at least how I define "Presidential". And if you base what he will do as president on his leadership abilities, and want a measure of his judgment, look at how he has run his campaign. Of course we all have issues what are important to us (Mine are Gay Marriage, Pro-Union, and Pro-Choice), but it's our gut feeling that ultimately decides it. Unless it's an incumbent, it's very difficult to base it on anything else.

[dansolo]

33. Executive order, if necessary

One of the things that the Bush administration has done was block any information to be revealed through the Freedom of Information Act. With a single stroke of his pen, he can mandate that all parts of the Executive Branch fully comply with any FOIA requests.

I don't know if he would do this, but it does answer how he could.

[Horse with no Name]

8. In other words

when he fails as President...it will be YOUR fault because he did.

[XemaSab]

14. .

:thumbsup:

[AGirl]

17. how will he avoid the mob mentality that could be hurtful to marginalized minorities?

[stray cat]

26. He like Kennedy will also have to lead by policy as well as example

Some things are right to do as a leader I suspect even if it means getting voted out of office. However, I don't underestimate that education is better than devicive fear mongering anyday. He or Clinton will have to make tough unpopular decisions and to fight the status quote and special interests. I do question whether either of the candidates has that level of fight and integrity. Although I sure hope they do.

[AGirl]

32. I am just afraid...

He's not gonig to stand up stronlgy for GLBT people despites the whim of the majority. I don't want to do whatever the movement want to do, i want a leader who will stand and fight for minorities. I don't want just unity, I want justice.

[stray cat]

36. I understand. There are other things I want them to stand up for.

We need leaders with not just good judgement but a backbone. I'm not completely sold on either candidate on either matter. However, I know I don't want McCain.

[CreekDog]

5. Oh my gosh no, don't do this

they will have you voting for McCain or Nader in no time.

[cali]

6. Nope. I firmly believe folks should do their own research and

come to their own conclusions about whom to support. You've got plenty of time. Bon chance!

[MadBadger]

7. You guys will in PA will be treated to a lot of campaigning from both candidates.

In the end, I say go see both of them if you can.

[TahitiNut]

9. You're confronted with two piles of donkey shit and one pile of elephant shit.

It's up to YOU to find the pony.


:evilgrin:

[BadgerKid]

21. I'll take

the one who doesn't crap on my leg. :)

Edit: :rofl: for your phrasing.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

10. Check both websites and research, research, research nt

[DrFunkenstein]

11. Because We Need to Unite People to Force Congress to Push Through Big Reform

Especially in health care and the environment/energy. Obama has a way of making people underestand what is at stake with the issues by cutting through the political BS. Only by getting people together with a spirit of bipartisan unity can we make the big changes that are needed. That's not Kumbaya - that's political reality as its most deep.

Take a look at Obama's positions on the issues. Look at Clinton's, too, if you want. Not only is he right on the issues, he has an intuitive sense of how to frame liberalism in the most commonsense terms. That's a political gift that we have waited far too long for.

Plus, he has the guts to really push for the elimination of ALL nuclear weapons - another example of how he can take stands that less gifted politicians would consider political suicide.

Finally, relative to the national stage, he seems like a fundamentally decent guy.

[XemaSab]

12. I think Obama has the capacity to produce a sea change in this country

both internally and externally.

Bare minimum, I can see making a huge amount of progress on racism. I also don't think President Obama will ignore groups of people, races, or regions of the country.

In my wildest dreams, we usher in a new era of international cooperation, where Africa, Asia, the Middle East, Europe, and the Americas are able to sit down at the table of brotherhood and forge a new path for all mankind. Meanwhile, at home we totally revitalize the way things are done, politically and economically. Schools become places of learning and not just babysitters. Clear mountain streams are filled with salmon. Little children pick blueberries while deer frolic in a nearby meadow. It'll be straight out of a Jehovah's Witness pamphlet. ;)

But I think Obama alone can do this. McCain and Clinton can't.

[AGirl]

15. "Americas are able to sit down at the table of brotherhood and forge a new path for all mankind"

I am sure the feminists supporting Clinton will love to hear your choice of words on "mankind" and "brotherhood". Another reason I don't want to be part of this movement.

[KittyWampus]

23. listen, while you're busy fighting semanitcs the rest of us women will have rolled up our sleeves

and been busy working.

[AGirl]

25. words matter.

Building a social movement is great, but make sure that its inclusive and the words you use will welcome everybody, not only what the majority wants to hear.

[stray cat]

31. Which movement?

Is it anti-brotherhood you are against -then call it personhood and humankind. The sentiment isn't exclusive.

[XemaSab]

34. I'm a feminist supporting Obama

Unfortunately MLK used sexist language in his "I have a Dream" speech that I was trying to evoke in my post.

Sorry. I'll quote a less sexist speaker in the future. :(

[AGirl]

35. thanks. I am glad you acknowledge it. n/t

[Metric System]

54. I thought you declared your support for Obama a few days ago? I'm not being snarky, I'm just

wondering if you've had a change of heart.

[AGirl]

13. both candidates are bs. N/T

[JimGinPA]

16. Why Haven't You Been Able To Make A Logical Decision?

With all the information available if haven't decided yet you probably have a problem with each of them.

[MH1]

19. I'm going to lean on Lessig and McKibben

because I am supposed to be doing some work, sigh.

Lawrence Lessig:

http://lessig.org/blog/2007/11/4barack.html

First the importantly balanced: You'll read he's a supporter of Net Neutrality. No surprise there. But read carefully what Net Neutrality for Obama is. There's no blanket ban on offering better service; the ban is on contracts that offer different terms to different providers for that better service. And there's no promise to police what's under the technical hood (beyond the commitment already articulated by Chairman Powell): This is a sensible and valuable Net Neutrality policy that shows a team keen to get it right -- which includes making it enforceable in an efficient way, even if not as radical as some possible friends would like.

Second, on the important: As you'll read, Obama has committed himself to a technology policy for government that could radically change how government works. The small part of that is simple efficiency -- the appointment with broad power of a CTO for the government, making the insanely backwards technology systems of government actually work.

But the big part of this is a commitment to making data about the government (as well as government data) publicly available in standard machine readable formats. The promise isn't just the naive promise that government websites will work better and reveal more. It is the really powerful promise to feed the data necessary for the Sunlights and the Maplights of the world to make government work better. Atomize (or RSS-ify) government data (votes, contributions, Members of Congress's calendars) and you enable the rest of us to make clear the economy of influence that is Washington.

Bill McKibben:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/3/9431/41821

...what Obama’s talk about unity means: not that he’s a patsy who’s going to split the difference with the opposition on every issue. Instead, that he’s going to try and figure out how to run the political rapids differently, so that he avoids the obvious rocks in the water and instead find some new line through the white water. And there’s really one way to do that—try to engage far more Americans in taking part so you dilute the power of the special interests.
For instance: if you’ve got to fight for dramatic shifts in order to deal with medical insurance, you do it less by replaying the precise same battles we’ve fought for the last two decades only harder, and more by figuring out a new way in. Why do we pay twice as much for drugs as Europeans? Why do we pay half again as much for medical care without getting any healthier? These are conversations that only experts have had so far, and that kind of elite dialogue will never build the support we need for real change.
The first key is getting Americans to ask about anything. The pervasive feeling of powerlessness, born of understandable cynicism, needs to be somehow overturned. That’s one reason it’s so hopeful to see high turnout by young people in the primaries. But voting alone is insufficient. Obama spent his formative years as a community organizer, which means he knows more than most of us about how to get people feeling as if they matter. Organizing is tough work—having helped organize 2,000 demonstrations about global warming in the last year, I have some sense of just how hard. Because Americans, by long training, have become cynical about their chance of making a difference.
But organizing always works the same way. You start by making people part of the process. It’s almost the exact opposite of the me-generation personality politics so on display by the Clintons in recent weeks: the idea that they and they alone have the experience and the expertise to solve whatever problems are at hand. This is boomer egoism at its most naked, and those of us who are about Obama’s age or younger are suddenly feeling the possibility of something different for the first time in our political lives. And liking it.
No one can know how any of these people will actually govern. But I hope for a change less in tone than in form. A presidency where, great orator though he is, Obama doesn’t depend on the State of the Union talk to rally people, but instead figures out ways to use the technology of our time. Maybe for virtual hearings or informal referenda; maybe to constantly solicit ideas. And I imagine that he’d be a president in nearly constant motion, covering the country not to hold fundraisers or to meet with other pols, but to...organize. Not to say ‘here’s what I’m doing—back me up,’ but to say ‘how are we going to do this?’

Both McKibben and Lessig are very smart people who are leading lights in their fields. They've put into words what I feel, but articulate it much better, and with more authority.

Here is Obama's technology document that Lessig references:

http://lessig.org/blog/Fact%20Sheet%20Innovation%20and%20Technology%20Plan%20FINAL.pdf

I hope you find this information helpful.

[dailykoff]

24. "Barack Obama's Stirring 2002 Speech Against the Iraq War"

Senator Barack Obama (D-Il), then an Illinois state senator, delivered these remarks in October 2002 at the Federal Plaza in Chicago:



"I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil.

I Don't Oppose All Wars

"I don't oppose all wars. My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil.

"I don't oppose all wars. After September 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again.

Opposed to Dumb, Rash Wars

"I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

"What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

"That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics."

from full speech at link: http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/Obama2002War.htm?rd=1

[wolfgirl]

27. For the record, I am/was a supporter of Edwards.

Biographical info - I'm a white,female, middle class , married with 2 sons and I'm in my mid-50s.

I tell you the above so you'll understand where I'm coming from.

First - I detest all the bickering & name-calling from both sides; however, I kinda understand how impassioned folks are about this election.

Second - The Democratic nominee is gonna get my vote in November...no matter which candidate ultimately wins out.

With that being said, I'm supporting Sen. Obama. Why? Sen. Clinton voted for the IWR. Even giving her the benefit
of a doubt as to her vote, it was wrong & there were lots of us out here without access to all the intelligence she was given that knew it was wrong. We knew that vote would give Bush & Co the keys to go to war. But hey, I gave her the benefit of a doubt.

However, just last year she voted with Bush & Co. on the resolution identifying Iran as a terrorist organization . There was no reason to support that resolution and no matter how she defends it, it was wrong. That vote was the deciding factor that turned me to Sen. Obama.

Of course, with the recent statements by Sen. Clinton & her campaign people about Sen. Obama & Sen. McCain, I've become more convinced that a dramatic change is needed and I believe that can happen with the nomination & election of Sen. Obama.

This may not convince you one way or the other, but at the end of the day, I can't help but come back to the votes. My sons' lives are at stake, so I'm supporting Sen. Obama.

PEACE!

[thevoiceofreason]

29. Step one

Get your information somewhere else. The volume is rather out of control here.

[noel711]

30. It boils down to... Who do you trust?

Listen to them give a speech, listen with your heart and your gut....

Think about what you know about them.. in your own experience;
try not to be swayed by what your family says, or commericials,
or, heaven forbid, never ever listen to Fox 'news' or MSNBC.


Who do you trust implicitly? Which one would you greet in church,
or living next door to you? Which one would you want as bank manager,
scout leader, finance officer in your town?

I know this sounds silly, but its intutive. Originally I was Edwards
all the way. Still adore him. But the first time I heard Obama speak
at the last convention, and when I heard his "Throwing His Hat in the
Ring" speech in Springfield, IL... there was something that struck my heart.

NO other comments necessary.

[stillcool]

37. here's some stuff that might help...

http://factcheck.barackobama.com/
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4940
http://www.grist.org/feature/2007/07/30/obama_factsheet/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303_pf.html
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Paul+B.+Hertneky%3a+Let%27s+compare+the+public+accomplishments+of+Clinton+and+Obama&articleId=11dc4bb6-bc19-4f73-97a4-400fbd3dad27
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/03/obama200803?printable=true¤tPage=all

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=2841

All about Rezko:
http://illinoisreason.wordpress.com/2008/01/23/illinois-blogs-recap-rezko-obama-not-much-there-there/

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-1993/Vote-of-Confidence/

[fadedrose]

38. Obama feels like a comfortable pair of shoes...

No sore spots, look good too. His voice is soothing to my ears. I have no fear of his doing something impulsive, cruel or unthoughtful.

I'd feel proud to have him welcome foreign guests and go overseas representing me. He shows respect and is deserving of it.

My Hillary shoes hurt my feet and give me a headache.

[progdog]

48. Your reason works for me.

n/t

[krawhitham]

39. Boy did you walk into a blood bath

Go elsewhere and read about both candidates, there is nothing to see here but made pissed off bullies on both sides

[Vinca]

40. The first time I heard Obama speak I was taken back in time.

I remember JFK, RFK, MLK and how exciting and inspirational those times were. He makes me believe we can accomplish more than we currently expect of ourselves. Trite as it is, he gives me hope and I haven't had hope in a long, long time. It might just be words in the wind, but I want to take my chances on what might be possible rather on what I'm told is possible. The candidates are so similar in their positions, it has come down to something beyond resumes and policy papers. A gut thing, I guess.

[BzaDem]

41. Because Hillary can win in November.

Electability.

National security will play a huge role in this election, just like it has played a huge role in every other recent election. Voters want to be able to end the Bush-McCain era, but want to make sure that we have a CIC that is strong on national security (and will be reluctant to do so otherwise). Hillary has quite a bit of foreign policy experience and can debate on the issue amazingly well. Instead of redirecting the subject to the 2002 vote every time anything related to national security comes up, she can actually debate and win on those issues. The issue of experience is not going to go away just because of the 2002 war vote (especially since most Americans were in favor of the IWR in 2002), like some candidates think it will. Experience will be huge.

Finally, more importantly, it will be very hard to swift-boat Hillary. It has been tried for 16 years and failed every time. She has no blossoming scandals that will define her image to the American public; the American public already knows her, so any attempts at swift-boating will be dead on arrival. Some Republicans especially hate her, but they don't get extra votes for hating her more. The ones that actually hate her are the ones that would come out and vote for McCain anyway. On the other hand, contrary to the makeup of DU, many democrats would love to see her as President, and women especially will come out in droves to support her. This is critical in swing states, all of which she has won so far.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

42. Iow, the Kerry Route.

Got it.

[BzaDem]

43. Totally different.

The contrast on the war is not going to be about the vote in 2002, where almost 2/3 of America supported the IWR. It is going to be simply this: get out, or stay in for 100 years. That's it. Pretty simple.

With Obama's lack of experience and swiftboatibility , we are risking a 40 state loss in November.

[Whisp]

44. for The Ministry of Keeping Things the Same - vote for Hillary.

for a possible change from this, go for Barack.

[dorktv]

45. I say vote for Santa Clause.

Mainly because he is endorsed by Lewis Black and he is loved by all people, regardless of party. :)

[4_Legs_Good]

47. IMO, Clinton is the best "revenge" candidate, but Obama is for those who want to "start over"

That's, at least, been my feeling since the start:

If you want to pay the Repukes back for the last 7 years, Clinton is the best option.

If you're sick of the division and ready to start again with someone (hopefully, but that I really believe) whom everyone can get behind as President, then Obama is your man.

Me, I want to move on and get this nation working again.

David

[Emit]

49. TommyO, you're probably gonna have to own this one yourself, but

In a nutshell, Obama's and Clinton's Senate Records are similar, and neither offer much difference in foreign policy, with the exception of HRC's war vote and Obama's anti-war stance. Some believe, however, that "Obama may be more open to challenging old Washington assumptions and crafting new approaches.” Although, getting out of Iraq may prove difficult for either. Passing health care reform will, too.

However, Hillary is a longtime DLCer, associated with the Third Way, Neoliberal Clintonianism that many liberals are aware has not lead to the necessary split with the Bush Sr./Reagan/(Clinton 3rd Way)/Bush Jr. conservatism and neoconservatism -- aka the elite status quo who manipulate the masses with populist messages, but fail to deliver on their promises.

Although I agonized over my decision on caucus day, and had considered voting for Hillary, I went with Obama, for many of the reason discussed previously and articulated so well here here.

edit typo

[candice]

50. One hundred reasons to vote for Hillary

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/29/205555/359

[Arkana]

51. Vote for Obama.

His official font has serifs, dammit! As evidence, I produce the logo in my avatar.

[lmbradford]

52. Here is my choice and why...

From the beginning I liked both Clinton and Obama. I am female and I was very excited about voting for the first female president but there was something about Obama that kept grabbing my attention.

I have good feelings about the economy from the Clinton years, but after researching, discovered that he signed Nafta into law and that much of the economy was due to the .com bubble. I detested the slime that dominated the tv during the Clinton years and grew upset about the questions that my young children were asking me about the president. I decided that I found Bill to be a good president but not a very good man. I really didn't know enough about Hillary to make a judgement at the time. So I have mixed feelings about the Clintons in general.

I watched both candidates speeches and debates and was impressed with them both and liked them both.

Here is what did it for me. I heard Michelle speak. She gave a speech about where her and Obama came from and a bit about their lives and how they arrived the the run for the presidency. Obama has continually made choices that benefitted the people around him in his life. He had opportunities for multi-million dollar corporate law jobs and turned them all dowm because he CHOSE to go back to the south side of Chicago to be an organizer. He helped people who had lost their jobs when factories were closing and when they couldn't afford housing or were having trouble with their landlords. He taught constitutional law for several years, serving the children in that university. He is a Christian with middle-class, mid=west values. He is what we in the mid=west call "a good guy who's handshake is as good as a contract". I didn't know anything about the things that he had done in the past because he has been painted as a politician. He is really someone who serves others.

Look at his legislative service in Illinois and all of the amazing legistlation that he has introduced to the Senate. Not many have been brought up because he is after=all a junior senator but his bills are amazing.

I love the fact he wants to keep govt out in the open for all to see. I love that for the last two years the Clinton Machine has been vetting him and come up with squat.

I love that he inspired so many young people to actually get out and vote. Yes, and I love that he is an amazing speaker. Speaking to world on my behalf is something I cannot wait for in coming year. We are about to inspire the whole world to be greater.

He is smart, dedicated, devoted to his wife, and an over=all good guy.

I am a feminist, but I will not vote for Hillary under any circumstances. She has tried so many underhand schemes and smears to bring Obama down and all I can think about is all the crap that we went through when the Clintons were in the white house the first time. I am ready for new and I know in my heart that Obama is the best choice.

Anyway, that is my $ .02.

[LadyVT]

53. Most of we Clinton supporters have left this forum; if I were you...

I'd look elsewhere for information. Candidates' websites. The international press. PBS.

You have probably noticed the hatefulness here lately.