Lawsuit Eyed by Sharpton over Florida

[MonkeyFunk]

Laying the groundwork for a court battle that could divide the Democratic Party, the Reverend Al Sharpton is threatening to sue the Democratic National Committee if it counts Florida's primary results in the official presidential delegates tally.

Rev. Sharpton is traveling to Florida today to compile lists of residents who skipped the January contest because they thought their votes would not count. He plans to have those residents sign affidavits saying they would be disenfranchised by the seating of the Florida delegation, in the event the Democratic Party allowed that to happen.

The party had promised to exclude Florida and Michigan from the nomination process after the states scheduled their primaries in January, earlier than party rules had allowed, but the close contest between senators Clinton and Obama has turned attention toward those primaries, prompting debate between the campaigns and party leaders over how to handle the lockout.

more at:

http://www.nysun.com/article/72572


I guess disenfranchising ALL voters is preferable to Sharpton.

[Steeler1623]

1. Obama needs to shut this guy up

[NightWatcher]

5. because Obama and Sharpton are connected??? oh wait they're black

[democrattotheend]

7. No, but people think they are, sadly

Sharpton has not endorsed but sadly, some people associate him with Obama simply because they are both black. It sucks, but it's the reality.

[zabet]

15. They are connected...

I can post many pics
of them together since
Obama started running.
Sharpton claims he does
not have a favorite candidate,
so I guess that explains him
lurking in the background
of Obama's campaign.
My thoughts are, and they
are just my thoughts: Al
is a little too controversial
to have as a public support
to the Obama camp, many African
Americans do not like Sharpton
and the African-American vote
is one of Obama's strong holds
in the voters. If Obama put it
out publicly that Sharpton was
in his camp, he would lose a
percentage of that vote, not a
lot but, enough to make a difference.

[NightWatcher]

21. results from googling "Sharpton Obama"

Why Sharpton is badmouthing Obama :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES ::
Sharpton tears into Obama :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Elections
The Political Realm: Oddities In The Sharpton-Obama "Feud"
Sharpton says he's not jealous of Obama - CNN.com
'JEALOUS' REV. AL BLASTS BARACK - New York Post

[zabet]

34. I said pics...

after Tawanna Brawley,
Obama cannot afford to
have public support by
Sharpton allowed in the
press.

[indimuse]

33. be real!

they ARE connected! Shall I post pictures and some very kewl comment Sharpton has nmade...?

[stillcool]

31. How many lawsuits about this

have been filed already? Last I heard it was 3. Are Clinton supporters the only ones 'allowed' to file lawsuits? Is there something ugly about Al Sharpton being involved with civil rights?

[MonkeyFunk]

40. Do you have a link to these lawsuits?

I haven't heard of any being filed.

Surely, nobody on DU would just make shit up, would they?

[stillcool]

48. Here's an article about two...

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/feb/28/me-appeals-court-to-hear-state-primary-arguments/

Appeals Court To Hear State Primary Arguments

By WILLIAM MARCH, The Tampa Tribune

Published: February 28, 2008

Updated: 02/27/2008 11:57 pm

TAMPA Two Tampa Democrats challenging the national Democratic Party's disavowal of the Florida primary will get a federal appeals court hearing on their lawsuit.

Hillsborough County Democratic Party chairman Mike Steinberg, a disabilities lawyer, and local political consultant Vic DiMaio filed the lawsuit in August.

A federal judge in Tampa had dismissed it in October, but the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta has now said it will hear arguments March 17.

"What this tells me is they find this an interesting case," Steinberg said. He said the defendant, the Democratic National Committee, asked for a hearing along with himself and DiMaio.

The two contend that the DNC violated the rights of Floridians by refusing to recognize the results of the state's Jan. 29 presidential primary.

The vote was earlier than party rules allowed, and the DNC says it won't seat Florida delegates at its national convention - in effect, not counting the primary vote.

DNC spokesman Luis Miranda said regardless of the court's decision to hear the case, "We feel pretty confident. Time and again, the courts have upheld the right of national parties to set the rules for selection of their delegates."

He said court procedures require litigants to indicate whether they think the court should hear arguments, and the DNC attorneys indicated so because, "We take the underlying issue seriously."

The lawsuit also named the Florida Democratic Party as a defendant. It said that if the court found the DNC was within its rights, the state party should be ordered to hold another vote or caucus to choose delegates who could be seated.

DiMaio and Steinberg said that part of the lawsuit is now moot, because it's too late to hold another vote or caucus.

The state party opposes holding another vote or caucus, however spokesman Mark Bubriski said that it's not too late - the delegate selection "window" extends through June 10.

"Our position still is that the lawsuit should be dismissed," said Mark Herron of Tallahassee, who represents the state party in the lawsuit.

DiMaio and Steinberg acknowledged their lawsuit could help New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton against Illinois Sen. Barack Obama.

Clinton won the Florida primary with a margin of 38 delegates, and argues those delegates should be seated. Obama says that would amount to changing rules in the middle of the game.

But DiMaio and Steinberg denied they were trying to help either candidate. They noted that when they filed their lawsuit in August, the race looked very different.

"This is not for or against Hillary or Obama," Steinberg said. He said he and DiMaio are neutral in the primary, and will support whomever gets the nomination.

Still, in a news release, they called their litigation a "landmark federal lawsuit that could determine the next president of the United States."

Tom Scarritt, a Tampa lawyer and prominent Democrat who backs Obama, acknowledged that the court's decision to grant a hearing in such a case was "sort of unusual."

But he said if the DNC also sought the hearing, it could mean the DNC "is so confident of their legal position they want to underline the decision," he said.

Florida Sen. Bill Nelson, a Clinton backer, also sued the DNC over the primary. After his lawsuit was dismissed, he declined to appeal, saying there was too little time left before the primary.

"I don't think Florida's going to change the tide one way or the other," Scarritt said, noting Obama's increasing delegate lead and momentum. "The O-train has left the station."

Reporter William March can be reached at [phone] or [e-mail]

[MonkeyFunk]

50. That's about one lawsuit

filed long before the Primary occurred, and the plaintiffs clearly state they're not supporters of any candidate.

[stillcool]

59. It also mentions Bill Nelson's lawsuit...

Florida Sen. Bill Nelson, a Clinton backer, also sued the DNC over the primary. After his lawsuit was dismissed, he declined to appeal, saying there was too little time left before the primary.

I will see if I can find you information about other lawsuits in the pipeline. I'm sure madfloridian will have that information.

[MonkeyFunk]

66. Yes, that was an old one, too

and dismissed.

The implication in your post was that the clinton camp was behind these suits. That's untrue.

[stillcool]

81. I don't know what is true...

they have a history of surrogates carrying their water, so judging from past experience...Nevada...I would expect nothing less

[MonkeyFunk]

95. But these lawsuits are from last August

how could they possibly have been done to benefit Clinton?

[stillcool]

97. I'm not at all sure...

why any of this was done, and on whose behalf, but there can be no doubt who is fanning the flames on this, and trying to distort what all is going on between the DNC and the Florida Democratic Party. As far as I can tell this has absolutely nothing to do with any of the candidates, but you would never know it.

Wednesday, March 21, 2007
Story last updated at 6:00 p.m. on Wednesday, March 21, 2007
Florida House votes for earlier presidential primary
http://www.jacksonville.com/apnews/stories/032107/D8O0PVN02.shtml
By STEPHEN MAJORS
Associated Press Writer

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - Florida voters would choose their presidential nominees as early as January under a plan the state House of Representatives resoundingly passed Wednesday.

The Sunshine State's primary would move to Feb. 5 or seven days after the New Hampshire primary, whichever comes first. The plan could push Florida past a handful of other states that have already scheduled a Feb. 5 primary; more than a dozen other stares are also considering a Feb. 5 vote.
--------------------------------
House Republicans and Democrats passed the earlier primary bill (HB 537) by a 115-1 vote - a challenge to the national parties that are wielding threats in an attempt to prevent a nationwide race for earlier and earlier primaries.


Florida lawmakers believe the state's demographic and political diversity merit a greater say in the selection of nominees. They're tired of candidates treating the fourth-largest state as a fundraising ATM, only to take the money to campaign in small states like Iowa and New Hampshire. And they say they are willing to call the bluffs of the national parties, which have threatened to take away delegates the state parties send to the nominating conventions.

National Democratic Party rules could even punish candidates who campaign in states that move their primaries earlier than Feb. 5 by essentially not recognizing the state's delegates.

"The state can move its primary date but there are automatic sanctions," said Luis Miranda, a spokesman for the Democratic National Committee. "The rules have been adopted and we will enforce the rules."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But some, like state Rep. Jack Seiler, a Wilton Manors Democrat who was the only House member to vote against the bill, believe Florida's earlier primary will hurt underdog candidates who don't have enough money to compete in large media markets at an early stage. He's been impressed with former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, but hasn't yet endorsed anyone.

"You're essentially going to make this into a straight money race," Seiler said, benefiting "whomever comes out of 2007 with the most money to prepare for these large states."

The Florida Senate is waiting to see what happens in other states before moving forward with a date, said Sen. Jeremy Ring, D-Margate, who is leading the effort in that chamber.

"It gives us a chance to really watch the landscape," Ring said. "When we're done Florida will be relevant."

Nelson set to sue DNC over Florida’s primary
By Aaron Blake
Posted: 09/26/07 08:23 PM
Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) upped the ante in the battle over the Democratic presidential primary calendar on Tuesday, saying he is moving forward with legal action against his party to fight for the state’s right to hold a binding Jan. 29 primary.

“Now there is no choice,” Nelson said. “I’m preparing a lawsuit.”

In a letter Nelson received late Monday, Democratic National Committee (DNC) Chairman Howard Dean rebuffed his plea for leniency and reaffirmed that Florida Democrats have until Saturday to either change their primary plans or lose all their delegates to the national convention.

Dean said none of Nelson’s proposed compromises were acceptable because they contravene DNC rules, which allow contests prior to Feb. 5 in only four states: Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina.

“We’re disappointed in Gov. Dean’s response,” Nelson said.

DNC spokeswoman Stacie Paxton said the committee worked closely with the state party to come to an agreement that complied with DNC rules.

“We’re disappointed that they chose not to pursue these options, but we’re moving forward,” Paxton said. “Unfortunately, Sen. Nelson did not offer any compromises that worked within the rules."

The state party made clear over the weekend that it would not bow to the national party’s threatened sanctions, declaring its primary binding and rolling out a campaign to encourage voters to head to the polls on Jan. 29.

Nelson and Rep. Alcee Hastings, the Democratic chairman of the state’s congressional delegation, sent Dean a letter on Friday suggesting they would file suit if he declined to lift the sanctions.
-----------------
Florida is one of two states engaging in battles with the DNC for moving its primary ahead of the Feb. 5 cutoff. Michigan has moved its primary to Jan. 15 and faces similar sanctions.

The DNC emphasizes that its rules were adopted by hundreds of DNC representatives from all 50 states.It also cites Democratic Party of the United States v. Wisconsin ex rel. La Follette, which says national parties do not need to recognize the results of a primary in allocating delegates, and that a state can refuse to seat delegates from a primary that violates its rules.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/nelson-set-to-sue-dnc-over-floridas-primary-2007-09-26.html

[redqueen]

2. They made the mess. Now they want the rules changed to accommodate them.

Not gonna happen. Those delegates will not be seated as is...

So sad those DLC clowns had to cause this nonsense.

[MonkeyFunk]

8. The DLC had nothing to do with this

Where did this new lie come from?

[redqueen]

18. Whose idea was it?

[MonkeyFunk]

19. You asserted it was the DLC

Explain how.

It was the state legislature, the state party, and the DNC.

[redqueen]

68. What kind of Dems dominate the lege in FL?

Moderates? Liberals? Yellow dogs? Blue dogs? DLC?

All the clowns on tv talking about how upset they are that they will actually have to play by the rules they agreed to... they're not Yellow Dogs.

[WilyWondr]

87. Exactly

Who do they think they are fooling(other than rabid HRC fans who would believe anything if they thought it might get her into office)?

I am so tired of the FL/MI storyline. They will not be seated and if they are allowed to have another primary it will drive the other states to file lawsuits.

The people of FL and MI should start getting some recall elections together for their state representatives if they are so upset by what they did. The funny thing is that I have not heard one word about FL or MI citizens recalling any of those representatives that changed the date of their primary.

[redqueen]

89. Isn't MI already working on a re-do?

Funny how FL is fighting that tooth and nail. Well, not 'funny'... but... you know what I mean.

[Armstead]

3. I hate to say it but he has a point

[rocktivity]

20. He has a point, but he doesn't have a Florida residency.

Let Howard Dean handle it--he's not Terry Schiavo.

:headbang:
rocknation

[stillcool]

44. He is a civil rights advocate...

unfortunately that involves voting rights. But your right. Only the Clinton's should be involved in law suits. It's what they do.
Florida: http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/feb/28/me-appeals-court-to-hear-state-primary-arguments/
Let's not forget Nevada:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/
CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to
disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proud Democrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf

[durrrty libby]

4. The stunning irony of an African American wanting to disenfranchise

1.7 million Florida voters is truly inspirational

[MonkeyFunk]

9. stunning, isn't it?

[Armstead]

10. I think your missing Sharpton's point

If voters are told that their vote will have no meaning, they were disenfranchised from the start.

[durrrty libby]

16. Record numbers turned out. Period The rest is crap trap

[Hippo_Tron]

41. Florida and Michigan were the only states where more voted in the R primary than the D primary

Record turnout is happening all over the country because it's actually a contest this year. Florida and Michigan would've gotten far more turnout if they had actually counted.

[durrrty libby]

65. link?

[Hippo_Tron]

75. Here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)_presidential_primaries,_2008#Voter_turnout

I was partly wrong, there were actually a few states that had higher R turnout.

Arizona which is explained because it is McLame's home state. Utah, Alabama, and Alaska are almost one party states and that's why they had higher R turnout.

That leaves Michigan and Florida. The only explanation is that there was lower turnout because people knew that their delegates would not matter.

[MonkeyFunk]

22. Nope

they could've voted - nobody prevented them.

If they hold a revote, and people don't vote because they're fed up with voting, are those people disenfranchised? If they hold a revote and it gets a lower turnout than the January primary, will you consider it MORE representative of the will of Florida voters?

There's no reason to believe supporters of any particular candidate were more likely to stay home than the supporters of any other candidate. It had record turnout - more than twice that of 2004.

[stahbrett]

25. It was announced well before the election that no delegates were at stake

How come more people voted in the Republican primary in Florida (and Michigan, for that matter)? Look at the other states - two or three times the number of voters are typically voting in the Democratic elections compared to the Republican elections, yet somehow Florida and Michigan have more people voting in the Republican primary.

Here's the most likely reason - THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES IN FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN ACTUALLY AWARDED DELEGATES.

[MonkeyFunk]

27. The republican primary is irrelevant

A record number of people voted in the DEMOCRATIC primary. 1.7 million of them. Florida had the fourth-highest turnout of all the primaries (I last checked that a couple weeks ago - I think it still stands, but another state may have jumped ahead in turnout).

There's no reason to believe the delegate allocation would have been any different if even more people had voted - 1.7 million is a solid statistical sample. The will of Florida democrats was clearly expressed.

[stahbrett]

46. It's not irrelevant - why did the Republican elections attract more voters, in your opinion?

The most logical explanation is that voters knew that a vote in the Democratic primary would not award delegates, and thus have no effect on the nomination, while a vote in the Republican primary would award delegates.

And regarding statistics - it's not just the raw numbers. State after state, when Obama and Clinton have time to campaign in a state, Clinton's early lead in the polls is narrowed (and sometimes eliminated). Yet you would have people believe that campaigning by Obama and Clinton in Florida and Michigan would not be "any different"?

[MonkeyFunk]

51. I'm not arguing that people didn't vote

in the Dem primary.

I'm arguing that they CHOSE not to vote, and that the people who didn't vote weren't disproportionately supporters of any one candidate.

Do you have any evidence that Obama supporters were more like not to vote than Clinton supporters?

[stahbrett]

63. I haven't looked for any evidence of that, but...

Obama has been better in general in attracting younger voters, independents and Republican voters. Those voters are less apt to "vote by habit" in a Democratic election that has been labeled as meaningless in terms of delegates to be won. They would be more apt to not bother to vote in such an election or to vote in the Republican election (which fits in nicely with the fact that more voters chose to vote in the Republican primary).

[PoliticalOne65]

76. litigation

That is it let's sue our way to the white house.

[stahbrett]

28. 1.7 million voters who were under the impression that no delegates were on the line

How about I invite a lot of people to play in a poker tournament, and tell them that the chips I'm handing out will not cost them any money - it's a free tournament. Then at then end, I tell everyone who lost that I've changed my mind, and they now need to come up with real cash so that the winner can get a real payout. Would that be fair?

[MonkeyFunk]

43. There's no reason to believe

any particular candidate benefitted.

1.7 million voters, record turnout - the will of the Florida democrats was clearly expressed.

[stahbrett]

54. Wrong, here are reasons to believe

1) Almost every other state, especially "purple"/battleground states, have had record turnout that have dwarfed the Republican elections in the same state. Yet Michigan and Florida had more voters choose to vote in the Republican elections.

2) Hillary's big early leads in so many states have been narrowed considerably by Obama once he and Hillary have time to campaign extensively - there's no reason to believe that Florida and Michigan would have not followed that pattern. If so, then I assume that you think that campaigning is irrelevant?

[durrrty libby]

56. Everyone I know went to vote. We figured our voices would eventually be heard

Your little story is stupid

[redqueen]

69. Well better call Al then, and tell him you already have the list of all the FL voters...

and they all voted already.

:crazy:



Hey, how's that 'inevitable' candidate thing workin out for ya? :P

[durrrty libby]

73. I see your Kool-Aid is spiked with moonshine.

:dunce: :hangover: :scared:

[snappyturtle]

38. He may be right. I have heard it knocked around before that some

Fl voters didn't vote at all and if they went to the polls didn't vote for president knowing it wouldn't count. Those too are disenfranchized....aren't they?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. He doesn't want to disenfranchise the other 300 million Americans.

It's either them or us.

[zabet]

6. Al Sharpton is about to die...

from Obama keeping him out
of the public's eye. Let
him get out there...and show
his arrogance and see how many
voters he turns away from Obama.

[joeybee12]

11. Wasn't he Obama's Secretary of state in the SNL skit?

That was funny, but it ain't gonna happen...it's the ego thing among other things.

[UALRBSofL]

12. Sharpton has the right idea

And I hope CNN and MSNBC will have him on there shows regularly because he has been an Obama supporter since day one. I also hope his lawsuit takes action quickly because florida will be most likely having a re-do soon.

[SoonerPride]

13. Why should they seat the delegates "as is?"

Unless there's a "do over" then I'll march and protest and join any lawsuit to stop Florida from counting their bogus delegates.

They are always fucking up elections in that godforsaken swamp.

[ellacott]

14. You all see the name Sharpton and all reason goes out of your heads

What is wrong with what he is doing?

[MonkeyFunk]

23. Where did my OP lack reason?

[ellacott]

24. What is wrong with what he is doing?

[MonkeyFunk]

26. I don't see how disenfranchising everybody

is a good solution, if his complaint is that SOME people were disenfranchised.

I also disagree with the premise that anybody at all was disenfranchised - they could've voted. Nobody stopped them. The real disenfranchisement comes from not letting their votes count.

[ellacott]

29. That's a difference of opinion

If the only option is a revote then it's true that all would be disenfranchised. If people were under the assumption that those votes wouldn't count then they were disenfranchised because of disinformation.

[MonkeyFunk]

42. No

It's really not. Nobody prevented them from voting. they CHOSE not to vote.

If somebody had a headache and blew off voting, were they disenfranchised?

[ellacott]

45. As I said, we have a difference of opinion

They were told their vote wouldn't count. So their govt. lied to them. If you seat those delegates you will from more than Sharpton.

[UALRBSofL]

52. I live in florida and no one told me my vote didn't count

I didn't get a mailer from the DNC, FDP or anything. The only thing I got was a mailer for an absentee ballot to vote early and it had every Democratic candidate on it. Again, I have always voted and never got a mailer saying my vote didn't count.

[ellacott]

53. I don't live in Florida but saw on the news that the DNC said those votes wouldn't count

[RockaFowler]

96. As a matter of fact . . .

I received a call from the Democratic party the day before the election (I think Florida's Dems, but it could have been the DNC). They told me to remember to vote and if I needed a ride, they would arrange it. Now, because I work for the media, I knew the votes wouldn't count but I voted anyway. I voted for John Edwards, so I didn't really care who won. When it was announced that Hillary won (and she had over 600,000 votes), I really thought the votes would count. It was so dramatic the amount of people who voted. People don't realize that yes there was a tax relief issue on the ballot, but 1.7 million democrats voted for one of the candidates. Those votes should count. No-one was disenfranchised. Everyone's names were on the ballot (even Dodd, Kucinich etc). Everyone had a level playing field since no-one campaigned in the state. And believe me, my station would have loved to have the Dems money for the election . . .

[zabet]

30. Tawana Brawley is what I see

when I see Sharpton's name.
I also know that racism and
bigotry are what gives him
a purpose and therefore he
tries to keep it alive and
well.

"Tawana Brawley is an African American woman from Wappingers Falls, New York. In 1987 at age 15, she received national media attention in the US for accusing six white men of rape, some of whom were police officers. The accusations soon earned notoriety, which was inflamed by Brawley's advisers Reverend Al Sharpton...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley

[ellacott]

32. You made my point

[zabet]

37. What point?

The one on top of
your head?

:shrug:

[ellacott]

49. Aren't you a smart ass

and you can't read or comprehend. Someone else posting the same juvenile insult.

Read and try to follow along. I know it's hard but I believe you can do it.

[zabet]

58. Better a smart ass

than a condescending dumb ass.

:hi:

[ellacott]

67. How far you want to take this?

You want to start telling yo momma jokes? Now go back and try to get that reading comrpehension. You'll be better for it.

[zabet]

72. Practice what you preach.

Reading comprehension.
Re-read all of my comments
in this thread and get back
to me. Then you can carry
on with your 'holier-than-thou'
'because I support Obama' posts.

[ellacott]

77. It's no problem for me

I've read your comments and as I said you proved my point. Because you lacked the communications skills to respond you chose to resort with the childish snark. I would have understood that maybe you weren't clear on what I posted but you chose to go down this route.

Don't start with this holier-than-thou garbage. This has nothing to do with Obama.

[zabet]

79. waaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh

Another idiot who takes
this crap waaaay too
seriously.

:rofl:

[ellacott]

85. You think I'm taking this too seriously

You're dumber than I thought. You are the one whining but you try to put it on me. Too funny. More of that projection that's been so prevalent this season.

[zabet]

88. All the people who

take this forum too seriously
are idiots. It has become
nothing but an echo chamber
for Obama supporters.
It sounds like angry bees in
a 55 gallon drum in here for
the most part.
Enjoy your echo chamber, magnified
by the emptiness of your head.

I know you will HAVE to have to last
word to validate your superiority and
self importance. Have at it. It is
yours for the taking.

:hi:

[ellacott]

90. .

:nopity: :eyes:

[stillcool]

47. Racism and Bigotry

are what I see when I see your name.

[zabet]

62. You should be able to see

that I am mixed and
I call racism when I
see it. I do not see
anything but a willing
to grasp at anything that
can be construed as racism
by Obama supporters.

[stillcool]

80. Al Sharpton is a civil rights activist..

whether you like it or not. When Bill Nelson lost his lawsuit in Florida the judge told Nelson to sue the State of Florida on the civil rights issue, NOT the DNC. I'm so sorry that you have such loathing for Reverend Sharpton. I happen to be from New York, and I remember that case very well, and the times in which it exploded. So much so that I have a high opinion of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. I don't care what shade your skin is, the caustic language you choose to use reeks of bigotry and racism.

[zabet]

84. Jesse's Hymie town remarks

show him as having racist tendencies
as did Sharpton's rush to judgement
on the Duke students show him to have
racist tendencies. I suppose you can
overlook racism against whites and
anit-semitic remarks as long as they
have done enough good. With that line
of reasoning, you should have absolutely
no qualms voting for Hillary because she
has done far more good than anything bad.

[Ordr]

86. Absolutely.

I couldn't agree with you more.
Al is an opportunistic, racist, lying pig.

[TomClash]

17. But it is clear that the only way . . .

. . . any FLA or MI delegates would be seated would be if there was another vote.

Sharpton is irrelevant again.

[snappyturtle]

35. I see your point but is Sharpton irrelevant? If Sen.CLinton continues

her efforts toward the importance of the popular vote over delegate count, maybe Sharpton foresees a possibilty that the delegates might be seated. I think he obviously does not trust the Clinton machine. He might actually be helping in a re-vote effort by pursuing this avenue. My problem with a re-vote is that THEN FL, who snubbed the DNC, will have the opportunity to possibly be the "decider" and thus rewarded for its misbehavior. As far as I am concerned, FL lost me in 2000 with the fumbling of the state's election process.

[TomClash]

60. FL as the decider is a good line and a good point

But I have a problem with Dems (even FL Dems) not being able to have their vote count.

[snappyturtle]

93. I think it's sad..very sad. Floridians need to get their state cleaned up.

I just don't see any good way out of this. To re-vote is to say to the other states that wanted to be placed earlier in the primary schedule..."Ha-ha". To split the delegates just neuters their votes. If the delegates are divided 50/50, what happens to the popular vote? It's been suggested that Sen.Clinton may use her popular votes to sway the credential committee. It's a mess.

[stahbrett]

36. A re-vote is not the only way for them to be seated, in my opinion

They could seat them AFTER a nominee is chosen without their delegates. This gives them representation at the convention without rewarding those states for breaking the rules.

They could split the delegates 50/50 and seat them, which preserves the meaninglessness of the invalid elections.

They could lessen the penalty - increase the number of delegates from zero to something like a 50% penalty, making them much less relevant. At least 50% should be penalized, in my opinion - hopefully more than that.

[TomClash]

55. But don't these solutions penalize the voters?

The voters are innocent and only the party leaderships are guilty of any wrongdoing. The seated delegates are likely party leaders and those are the people who are rewarded under your three alternate scenarios, but the voters don't have their vote counted. As a Democrat I don't care for disenfranchising voters.

[stahbrett]

74. The voters in those de-certified elections KNEW that no delegates would be awarded

I have a cousin in Tampa - she voted in the Republican primary because she knew that a vote in the Democratic primary would have absolutely no effect on the nomination. She does not want the election results in the Democratic primary to suddenly be granted relevance in terms of delegates. So when people say that all of those voters will be penalized, the potential voters who were told ahead of time that the election was for zero delegates and chose not to vote in the Democratic primary would be penalized if delegates were suddenly granted based on those results.

[TomClash]

78. That's why there has to be a re-vote

To allow those voters who stayed home the chance to vote.

What kind of party disenfranchises its own voters because of the boneheaded actions of the party leaders?

[Blu Dahlia]

57. so this is sharpton's fault now? Isn't Shrillary the one who wants to break

the party rules?

[MonkeyFunk]

70. No

She's not trying to break party rules.

[loveangelc]

61. Well I dont see how he can do this. If they re-vote it won't matter will it?

[stillcool]

83. Might have something to do with this...

Democrat would sue to stop do-over primary

By Michael C. Bender | Thursday, March 6, 2008, 10:35 AM
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/floridapolitics/entries/2008/03/06/democrat_would_sue_to_stop_doo.html

Victor DiMaio, the Tampa Democrat suing the DNC over its decision to ignore the state’s Jan. 29 primary, said he would file a second lawsuit if the state and national parties agreed to hold another election.

“I’m sure the New England Patriots would love a do-over Super Bowl,” DiMaio said this morning. “But it’s over. It’s done with.”

DiMaio’s attorney, Michael Steinberg, said their suit, scheduled for a hearing on March 17, would continue even if another state contest was scheduled. “We’re trying to establish a principle that you can’t give preferential treatment to some states,” Steinberg said.

Their lawsuit would force the party to use the results from the Jan. 29 election, which Sen. Hillary Clinton won by 17 percentage points over Sen. Barack Obama. But DiMaio said he’s not trying to given either candidate an edge —- he said he voted for Sen. John Edwards.

[jwirr]

64. Surprise! Surprise! Al Sharpton is supporting Obama! Good. I

do not want superdeligates to determine who my candidate is and I do not want 2 states that did not have a full vote to do it either. Does anyone actually believe that Obama would have lost Florida if there had been a real election there?

[MonkeyFunk]

71. absolutely

Clinton would've easily carried Florida.

[joeybee12]

82. And that's why Carville is out there pushing for a revote for FL and Michigan

and Obama's surrogate was hedging.

[iamthebandfanman]

91. Thanks Al!

rules is rules.

glad somebody agrees with that notion.

i really hate this issue, it forces my authoritarian side to come out.

i still say its unfair to revote and/or count their votes tho.

hopefully lessons were learned by people this time around and it wont happen again.

[printpolitico]

92. Where there is controversy- there's Al Sharpton

[Slagathor]

94. Doesn't he have a day job?

He should try doing something useful for a change.