Could Ed Muskie have beaten Nixon in 1972?

[Hippo_Tron]

As I understand part of the justification for super delegates is to prevent another McGovern from happening. This seems to be a reasonable premise, assuming that the alternative in 1972, Ed Muskie could've actually beaten Nixon.

I don't doubt that Muskie would've probably done better than McGovern. But could he have actually beaten Nixon? And if he couldn't have beaten Nixon does the fact that he would've done better still justify having super delegates? Put another way, is losing 49 states any different than losing 39 states?

[Zynx]

1. Muskie would have run a respectable race and lost 54-46.

The problem with the McGovern campaign is that it permanently labeled the Democrats as the "wimpy" party. At least a Muskie run would not have done that.

[Hippo_Tron]

2. Didn't the "wimpy" stuff start with Eisenhower?

Eisenhower attacked Truman's policy of containment as wimpy and said that he would defeat communism instead of containing it. It seems like the Democrats spent the entire Cold War trying to one-up the GOP on that one.

[Zynx]

6. That may be true that it was somewhat of a competition, Democrats didn't come

off as being "soft" on defense or at least not in the same way McGovern did. Bear in mind also that Truman's doctrine of containment was in stark contrast to Henry Wallace's doctrine of appeasement.

[Spider Jerusalem]

3. It wouldn't?

Have you forgotten Muskie's infamous breakdown? When all the newspapers reported him crying on the steps of the Manchester Union-Leader as he responded to press allegations about his wife?

[Zynx]

8. At least he never would have said he would get down on his hands and knees and beg

to the North Vietnamese. There's a key difference between being emotional about personal matters and being an honest to goodness wimp.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. "is losing 49 states any different than losing 39 states"? Yes.

Losing 49 states is seen as a repudiation of the entire party and everything it stands for.

[Zynx]

9. I agree. It's a sign you've been rejected by everyone, everywhere.

[Spider Jerusalem]

5. Reminder: Superdelegates gave Walter Mondale the nomination in '84.

Gary Hart would have probably fared better against Reagan, but the superdelegates went with the tried-and-true party insider. Who turned out to be another McGovern; he won the District of Columbia (which has never gone Republican; McGovern won there, too), and his home state of Minnesota (the latter by 3380 votes...narrowly avoiding a 50-state Electoral College shutout).

[Hippo_Tron]

10. True, but I want to leave that for another thread...

[andym]

7. who knows?

Who knows? Between dirty tricks and being an incumbent, Nixon was already well-positioned.