I don't care if you feel superior to me because I dislike Kerry

[skjpm]

Go ahead. Get all "more Democratic than thou." Think you're more perceptive than I am. Go right on ahead.

What Kerry said about this latest Sharon thing is just one more thing I dislike about him. We should not be supporting Israel. And his lack of a clear plan for Iraq (OK, OK, you think it's clear, I guess I'm just too dumb to see what the hell he's talking about) bugs me. Just say--"America out, UN in."

Kerry is better than Bush and I will vote for him But there are many more worthwhile Democrats. Kerry is above Lieberman and Miller, but pretty much below everyone else.

I wish we had another, better candidate. And I'm not ashamed for feeling that way. And you can feel all superior to me if that makes you happy.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. I'll take that as an endorsement

[eyesroll]

2. You're allowed.

Concentrate your time and $ (if applicable) on the House or the Senate, or state-level politics. Everything counts.

I admit I'm warming up to Kerry, a bit -- I'm still not thrilled but I don't think I've ever supported anyone (non-incumbent) in a primary who's gone on to win the nomination. I'm concentrating my efforts on our local congressional race (we're trying to get rid of Sensenbrenner) and on peripheral stuff that, yes, does support Kerry -- I'm doing the MoveOn bake sale on Saturday, for example.

Find something you're interested in, and work for it.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

3. you don't have to love the guy...

...you just have to vote for him.

Oh, and if you could convince as many other people as you possibly can to vote for him too, that would help. The fate of the world just may depend upon it!

[Taverner]

4. like he said

[Gildor Inglorion]

5. Look at it this way, fellow Democrat...

at least you have the potential to be very, very pleasantly surprised when Kerry becomes one of the best presidents of all time. There are plenty of us who are a bit disgruntled - my heart is with Kucinich, or even farther left, but Kerry is NOT the lesser of two evils. I think he'll do just fine. After all, nobody had great expectations of Clinton in 1993, and look at the Golden Era he delivered (God bless him!) Cheer up...I for one don't feel one bit superior to you.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

51. True.

Otoh, the disappointment could be crushing.

[ACK]

6. When did Dean or Gephardt say they would not support Israel

Unconditionally?

Hell Dean learned you cannot even call for balance in relations without getting bashed for being pro-palestinian and anti-Israel.

Kuicinch says he is looking for the just peace but it still sounds awfully pro-Israel to me.

Who the hell are you looking to vote for?

+

[JI7]

7. they never took issue with Kerry's position on Israel

in the primary.

[skjpm]

10. I'm planning to work on Congress

The races here are just getting started. I'm putting my hope in winning back Congress. I refuse to pretend to be excited about Kerry. I tried to watch him again--*yawn!* In the midst of all that is going on, of all that is being revealed about Bush, he talks about the most irrelevant things.

[Dr Fate]

8. Who will be feeling "superior" when Bush wins?

That should be the question.

[dweller]

9. US out, UN in

you are looking for a Kucinich Presidency.

get on the Peace train skjpm,
dp

[skjpm]

13. Kerry only won because he appeared safe

After the media and the DLC trashed everybody else, Kerry looked the safest. He didn't win because he was the best, but because the primaries were framed as "Do you want the Tasmanian Devil, Daffy Duck, or Abraham Lincoln?" Um, gee, well, I guess cable TV knows more than I do, and I sure don't want the Devil or the Duck, so I guess I'll pick Honest Abe. If people hadn't been led astray by the media frenzy, they wouldn't have chosen Kerry. So stop saying that he got all these votes--yes, yes, he got all those votes, I'm not an idiot, but he got them because people were scared and not thinking clearly.

[Hippo_Tron]

28. I think the media is to blame but indirectly

The neocons (with indirect aid from the media) have scared the living shit out of Americans making them afraid to vote for anybody who's against blowing shit up. I know a good bit about John Kerry and I just don't think it makes sense that he would truly support Iraq. I think he knows that his only chance of winning is to say he supports Bush's war but criticizing him for doing a poor job running it. In a decade or so when the memories of 9/11 are more distant, we will be able to have our candidates run on more progressive ideals but right now we simply can't do that. The neocons are just too powerful.

[seaglass]

35. Oh, so it's you who is superior to everyone else because

you saw exactly what was happening and all those voters sure were fooled. Get a grip.

[Nadienne]

46. I don't know about the cable-TV part

but I'm certain that the biggest factor in choosing the nominee was not "best candidate" but "best chance at beating Bush". This meme seemed to thrive even here.

If Kerry is easily portrayed as wishy-washy, well, we got what we asked for: a panderer.

[cally]

52. Umm, but he won

I'm livid at Kerry today about the support of Israel and not endorsing better Palestian rights to their homeland.

This is politics. People vote and rarely do voters think like I do. :shrug: That doesn't mean they are not thinking clearly or that the best person did not win. It just means that voters look at different issues than I do. I think Kerry appears safe, knowledgeable, and father-like. That's not how I vote but it is a reasonable way to vote. Kerry is not my ideal candidate but I don't think I have ever voted for my ideal candidate.

He got more votes. He won. I think the primary voters saw something about his electability and leadership that those of us immersed in issues did not see. Whatever...he is our nominee. I've always believed that working with nonprofits and local politics was more effective. This is the first time I sent money to the Presidential nominee. This election is just too important to our world to not vote out * and his cronies.

[sangha]

11. I can understand that, but ask yourself this question

What could Kerry do that would help the situation?

And by "help the situation", I mean do some good for the Palestinians and the Israelis. While his speaking out might make you feel better about Kerry, what good would that do for the peace?

[skjpm]

15. Um--fewer hostages might die

I think that would be a bonus. If supporting Israel is causing people to be killed, then I think we should maybe consider not doing it.

[sangha]

17. If Kerry came out and opposed this deal

but Bush* agreed to it, do you really think the kidnappers would let their hostages go because of what Kerry said?

If supporting Israel is causing people to be killed, then I think we should maybe consider not doing it.

I agree, but they're not upset because Kerry supports Israel. They're upset because the United States government supports Isreal. Kerry can say whatever, but it won't change the fact that Bush* is signing on to this deal. I suspect they will be more upset with this deal, than they would be relieved by Kerry's opposition.

[skjpm]

18. Kerry could make them see that not all America supports Israel

He might make it clear that there will be a more even-handed policy when he's elected. That way, the anger in the Mideast could be directed at Bush and his supporters rather than all Americans.

[sangha]

20. Do you think that is likely?

Do you really think that Kerry can simply talk them into believing that while the US military is occupying Iraq, and the US government is approving Sharon's plan?

[hedgetrimmer]

29. Do you think that with Kerry's unwavering support of Bush

that he is promoting third party votes, there-by supporting Bush? I wonder where all of his $$$ is coming from?

[sangh0]

37. Answer my question

before asking one. That is, if you have the courage and character to do so.

[hedgetrimmer]

48. sangh0, sangha it gets real confusing... the names are so close and

the rhetoric is almost inseparable. whose question and for that matter which question?

[David Dunham]

12. Kerry must support this or else lose Jewish votes and FL and NJ

Either Kerry supports this plan or he loses tons of Jewish votes and therefore Florida and NJ, and the election.

[riverwalker]

14. I know where you are coming from

and I used to feel I could not support anyone who supported Israel. But here is how I see it. You can't win an election while giving Sharon the witch-slapping he needs, it won't happen. From what I know about Kerry, his sense of justice and fairness, his intelligence, I trust once in office he will deal with both sides fairly. He is not a fundie, Israel is just another country to him, not his "salvation".

[Martin Eden]

16. I don't care...

that you don't care...

so there!!!

(just vote for the man, OK?)

[Avalux]

19. A suggestion

learn more about Kerry just as I have. You may change your mind. I'd like to know why you believe Kerry is below all other Dems except Leiberman and Miller and who you'd prefer as the nominee. And about the "feeling superior" statement - nope.

[skjpm]

22. What have you learned that you can unequivocally say is true?

I've read about him, listened to him, and I have no idea where he stands. Maybe you can present a quote and say "Kerry says this." But he says something else somewhere else, so what's the point? That interchange with the guy at the town meeting could have been me. And Kerry's answer was meaningless. More articulate and thought out than Bush, but just as meaningless.

[sangha]

25. A suggestion

When evaluating a politician's record, it is advisable to review what they've done, and not just what they've said.

When confronted by two seemingly contradictory statements, let their actions be the tie-breakers.

[TheDonkey]

21. ... riiiiiiight you expect me to believe Kerry is the worst democrat

in the world next to Miller and Lieberman.

Ok....

yea.....

:crazy:

[skjpm]

23. If we have to have Bush-lite, I'd rather have Edwards.

At least he's young and enthusiastic. He may be the same as Kerry--I think he's a bit more progressive, but I won't quibble--but he's more fun to watch, and yes, that is important. And his message about the two Americas is much more clear.

[sangha]

26. That's just crazy talk

You want to complain, and without limiting yourself at all, yet you can't identify the slightest bit of good that would come out of it if Kerry had said anything different. You are getting upset over something that hurt no one in a situation where you can't think of one single way that Kerry could help make the situation better.

If Kerry changed his statement, the only "good" it would do is to make *YOU* feel better. It wouldn't do any good for the Isrealis, the Palestinians, the US, or anybody else.

[hedgetrimmer]

31. The good it would do is separate the people from the administration,

now that the light is on... it is hard for the world to see the people of the U.S. separately from the current administration when the number one contender is saying the same damn thing as Hitlers reincarnate.

[sangh0]

38. Answer the question, hedgetrimmer

instead of practicing "shoot and scoot"

Why are you afraid to answer a simple question "How would it help the Palestinians and the Israelis?"

Or don't you care

[hedgetrimmer]

49. The Palestinians would have hope... now they have a sure fired four years

or more of unwavering assault. They would have hope that should Kerry get elected there would be justice and hope for not just the people of the U.S. but the people of the world. Further that would increase a support by the middle east sympathizers and descebdents for Kerry.

And alas.. answer the question... sangh0/sangha whoever you are...

[cally]

53. Have you looked at their voting records

Kerry is much more progressive than Kerry.

[JNelson6563]

24. You're just not a "grown-up"

If you were a grown-up you'd be hauling ass for Kerry no matter how you feel about him.

Or at least that is what was pretty much told to me here in this forum.

My opinion? I am not able to "fake it" so I focus on other races and party efforts. I encourage anyone else not crazy about Kerry to do the same. Vote for him in Novemeber, at least I am, but don't be inactive this election due to your views on the Pres. candidate. Plenty of other races going on everywhere. Wins are crucial at every level

Julie

[sangha]

27. Please note that no one but Julie has said that to skjm

I feel bad that she had the misfortune to have someone say something stupid and mean to her. After all, that happens so rarely on DU.

I feel her pain.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

32. And She's Always the Innocent Party, Too

Funny, there are so many innocent parties on DU.

Heh. It's actually really, really funny. ;-)

DTH

[JNelson6563]

34. What are ya gonna do? Yanno?

There are pompous asses all around us. They like to spew self-righteous bullshit. They are usually lacking in self confidence in a big way and are compelled to try to belittle others to make themselves look good.

They deserve pity above all and their political commentary is basically worthless as they tend to think emotionally over logically. Poor things.

It is my hope that those here who receive such treatment will consider the source of such criticism and disregard it as harmless blather from poor, disadvantaged, misguided souls.

Julie

[DoveTurnedHawk]

36. LOL

Sounds like you're reacting pretty darn emotionally there, Julie. ;-)

Hugs and kisses!

DTH

[JNelson6563]

47. Again, you flatter yourself

I don't go much beyond pity for the likes of you. And it's not a real deep pity. More like the noted-in-passing kinda pity.

I don't invest in these discussions emotionally. I've learned how fruitless such investment is.

I'd rather direct my energy where the returns are much higher. Like in real life efforts.

Keep looking though, I'm sure you will find something to feel superior about...

Hugs and kisses--
Julie

[DoveTurnedHawk]

50. Suuuuuuure

LOL! You are too funny.

You were obviously angry enough to affirmatively extend this little argument to another, brand-new thread, and then angry enough to start tossing around thinly-veiled insults and profanity. That's not normally the type of behavior one generally displays toward someone they supposedly "pity" unless one is the type of person who, say, kicks the homeless or something. And since I really don't think you're THAT bad, it seems quite clear that you were, in fact, reacting emotionally.

But hey, if claiming you weren't reacting emotionally somehow makes you feel better about yourself, go for it.

I just happen to find the whole thing hilarious. So how about it, Julie, why don't we keep this going for another dozen responses or so? The amusement factor alone is priceless!

Again, have fun with your secondary candidates, although I wouldn't exactly call those "high return" types of activities. I'll stick with real-life activities that might actually bear some fruit.

DTH, Who Really Doesn't Have To Look Hard at All

[Hippo_Tron]

30. The situation in Israel is just plain horrible with us or without

I prey that somebody with godlike diplomatic skills will become president one day and fix this whole conflict. But until that day comes there's not much we can do either way.

[Pinko Commie]

33. I'm not all that thrilled, either...

In fact, I've switched to Hunt's ketchup. But I have to go with him.

Remember a few months ago, when he was caught on-mike calling the Goober administration criminals? And how he told them he wouldn't apologize? Wish he was more like that.

[sangh0]

39. Hunt's Ketchup?

Obviously, you're a terrorist or a Republican. I forget which...I'm getting confused with all the blather going on :-)

[skjpm]

40. And Kerry continues with the inane reparations comment

We seem to have money for other people we have conquered and destroyed, why not the slaves? Kerry's comment was stupid and ill-timed. I personally support a public memorial or some kind of college fund rather than direct reparations, but to dismiss them out of hand shows great disrespect for an important symbolic gesture. Just like something Bush would say.

[sangh0]

43. You're using reparations to distract attention

from the fact that you can't think of anyone Kerry could say or do to help the situation.

You spend much time criticizing Kerry, so I assume you care about criticizing Kerry. Since you spend NO time on helping the people of the ME, what should I conclude from that?

[jsw_81]

41. "We should not be supporting Israel."

:eyes:

[TheStateChief]

42. Look, I'm not wild about Kerry either...

But you can sit around and bitch about his changing views or his plan to keep the Iraq war going or his corporate tax cuts and see Bush re-elected, or you can focus on the things you should like about him like liberal judges, more reasonable tax cuts, healthcare, better education and get Bush the hell out of DC. I don't buy into the argument from those who say we should expect more from our candidates. We're past the time for that. I liked Howard Dean. I thought he would be a stronger candidate. I thought he was treated very unfairly within the party and in the media. But he didn't make it. My options are Bush or Kerry. I'm not wild about Kerry, but I'm focusing on the judges, tax cuts, healthcare and education where there is a CLEAR difference and a better choice. That choice is John Kerry.

[MoonRiver]

44. And I don't care if you don't care, so there!

I also do not feel "superior". You are completely entitled to your opinion, and it is as valid as mine.

This isn't a game, and I'm not in Jr. High anymore. We're talking about the survival of this country and possibly the world. I support Kerry 100%, and I like him to boot. I guess I'm lucky on those counts. But I'm also pragmatic, meaning no matter who the Dem candidate is (presumptively it's Kerry, but we haven't had the convention yet), I will support him totally. Personally, I think that defeating * aside, Kerry could very well end up being one of our finest presidents. I look forward to finding that out one way or the other.

[tom_paine]

45. I don't feel superior, but I do disagree

Israel has behaved badly. That is an understatement.

Over the past 40 years, the Palestinians, in different ways, have behaved equally as badly.

There is enough blame and bad behavior to go around.

Kerry isn't my first choice, either, but he is our candidate.

I also disagree with your placement of Kerry so low with (or slightly above, even) Lieberman and Miller.

But superior to you? No.